Acoustical Treatments Master Thread - Page 358 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10711 of 10726 Old 02-16-2015, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob B View Post
Glenn,
Would you like to offer some comments on the front wall questions posed by Hendry98 and myself earlier?
In other words, 2" vs 4" absorbing treatment of front wall, and the question of entire wall vs. behind speakers? As well as how these questions combine with how you should treat your rear wall?
See detailed questions above :-)

THANKS!!!
Hey Jacob,

Sorry I don't see the question above, but generally speaking for the front wall I like to use no less then 4". In fact if possible I like it thicker. As far as coverage, the more the better. If you start to loss to much upper frequencies then I would use a slat design (like our Scatter Plates) and or a membrane.
For the back wall, generally speaking I like to go as THICK as possible with trapping and cover as much of the wall space as possible. If budget is there I will also throw in something tuned and diffusion for good measure. In the end though every room is going to be different.
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post #10712 of 10726 Old 02-16-2015, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myfipie View Post
Hey Jacob,

Sorry I don't see the question above, but generally speaking for the front wall I like to use no less then 4". In fact if possible I like it thicker. As far as coverage, the more the better. If you start to loss to much upper frequencies then I would use a slat design (like our Scatter Plates) and or a membrane.
If you cover the entire front AND back wall, in addition the entire ceiling, as I have, plus 1st relection points on the sidewalls, it seems you would be treating a lot more than 50% surface, as I hear is the recommended number?

Would you use something like pond liner as membrane above, below, and to the sides of the screen - leaving the area directly behind the AT screen with no membrane?
Or would a slat design be preferable to this - and then everywhere on the front wall, or around the screen but not behind it? As I understand it, the area directly behind the screen should be treated due to reflections off the backside of the AT screen?
Should you worry about reflections off the front wall from the rear surrounds, or is it the backwall reflections of the LCR that is the main problem? In the latter case, this can be taken care of on the rear wall, right? (see below)

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Originally Posted by myfipie View Post
For the back wall, generally speaking I like to go as THICK as possible with trapping and cover as much of the wall space as possible. If budget is there I will also throw in something tuned and diffusion for good measure. In the end though every room is going to be different.
I already bought GIK versifusors for the upper 1/3 of the back wall. Below them (below 150 cm / 5'), the second row of seats will be blocking line of sight from the front subs and LCR speakers to the back wall. There is a three foot wide walking area behind the 2nd row before the back wall.
The way I see it, the two rows of Berkline 090 with 4-8 people in them should be acting as bass absorbers between the front subs and the rear wall, negating the need for bass trapping here? And mid and high freq reflections of the LCR speakers will not hit the back wall below 5', only the area covered by versifusors - the (3) versifusors will be the only part of the back wall visible from the front row...
In addition, the rear half of my sloping side walls will have four versifusors in each side.

Does this sound reasonable?

Cheers,
Jacob

Last edited by Jacob B; 02-16-2015 at 02:33 PM.
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post #10713 of 10726 Old 02-17-2015, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
If you cover the entire front AND back wall, in addition the entire ceiling, as I have, plus 1st relection points on the sidewalls, it seems you would be treating a lot more than 50% surface, as I hear is the recommended number?
Keep in mind that in a full acoustic build out you are taking every inch (well kind of) into account, so using a percentage really is not correct. You might have some areas that are reflective, others that are are absorptive or diffused/scattering. It is all of the this that works as a "unit" in the room. Their are no "rules" as all rooms are different and what you might like may not apply to the next person. Over all we are going for a even response (decay and frequency) but no 2 rooms are going to be the some for a host of reasons (shape, construction and so on).

Quote:
Would you use something like pond liner as membrane above, below, and to the sides of the screen - leaving the area directly behind the AT screen with no membrane?
I have never worked with pond liner, but would seem to me it would not reflect that much upper frequencies, if that is what you are going for or need.

Quote:
I already bought GIK versifusors for the upper 1/3 of the back wall. Below them (below 150 cm / 5'), the second row of seats will be blocking line of sight from the front subs and LCR speakers to the back wall. There is a three foot wide walking area behind the 2nd row before the back wall.
The way I see it, the two rows of Berkline 090 with 4-8 people in them should be acting as bass absorbers between the front subs and the rear wall, negating the need for bass trapping here? And mid and high freq reflections of the LCR speakers will not hit the back wall below 5', only the area covered by versifusors - the (3) versifusors will be the only part of the back wall visible from the front row...
In addition, the rear half of my sloping side walls will have four versifusors in each side.
The human body does absorb sound but I would not call them "bass traps" or think you can go without them because of bodies in the room. BTW we talking about small room acoustics, not things like concert halls.

Over all if you want to dig this deep into your room then I would test it with REW and learn how to understand what you have or hire someone to give you a hand. With that said though just doing the normal things like trapping in corners, covering early reflection points and THICK absorption for the back wall will get you pretty far in-front of the power curve.
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post #10714 of 10726 Old 02-17-2015, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
I am ready to get treatments for my room, I know where I want to placement, but I'm not sure what brand or kind I need. That's basically where I'm stuck. Is there a link y'all can post where some good treatments are?
If you need sources who can help determine what you need, here's a link with suppliers in Houston-

https://www.google.com/search?q=Cont...utf-8&oe=utf-8
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post #10715 of 10726 Old 02-18-2015, 01:56 PM
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Fabric Panel+Furring Strips - Total Depth - (with velcro) 1" Linacoustic

Question:
In order to avoid any "bulges" of 1" Linacoustic and Cotton Batting from pressing out against the tightened fabric (because hypothetically if I make the mistake of designing the combined depth dimensions of the furring strip and fabric panels), how "thick/deep" should I purchase regarding the depth size of furring strips for Fabric Panels (considering also the depth of the velcro dimensions when installed)?

Fabric Panels+Furring Strips - Depth Dimensions (considering Linacoustic thickness)
Fabric Panel Design:
1. Furring strips on the wall on all edges of the edges of the Fabric Panels.
Linacoustic on bottom half of the wall and Dacon Cotton Batting from Joanne's Fabric on the upper part of the walls
(ear height and above) divided by furring strips.

2. 1" thickness of Linacoustic and however many layers of Dacon Cotton Batting from Joanne's fabric will be applied directly
to the drywall using 3M 77 Spray Adhesive.

3. Fabric Panels will be made of either Plywood or MDF with GOM fabric stapled to the backs of the Fabric Panels and will attach to the furring strips via Velcro.

Is it ok if the there is some "space" between the fabric and the 1" Linacoustic/Cotton? How close should the fabric be relative to the 1" Linacoustic and Cotton Batting? Should the Fabric not even be touching the 1" Linacoustic and Cotton Batting?

Would should I purchase regarding the thickness of my Fabric Panels?

a. 11/16 plywood (fabric panels) and 11/16" plywood (furring strips)?
b. 1/2 MDF (fabric panels) and 1/2 MDF (furring strips)?
c. 1/4 Plywood (furring strips) and 11/16" plywood (fabric panel)

Which combination considering the depth of the velcro and avoiding any bulging out of the 1" Linacoustic and Cotton Batting?
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post #10716 of 10726 Old Yesterday, 11:54 AM
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so without reading this entire monster thread...

oc703 from floor to ear height
oc705 from ear height to ceiling

for all walls minus speaker wall?

Panasonic 65VT30 | Panasonic AE8000 HD PJ | Denon x4100 ATMOS 5.2.4| Emotiva XPR-5 | PSA MT110 x 3 FL/C/FR | PSA MT110sur surrounds | DUAL PSA XS30 | OPPO 103 | minidsp | Buttkicker LFE

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post #10717 of 10726 Old Yesterday, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
so without reading this entire monster thread...

oc703 from floor to ear height
oc705 from ear height to ceiling

for all walls minus speaker wall?
I'm not sure where you got that. I don't think I've seen that whole-wall coverage recommendation, ever. That would make for a very dead room. And you'd have no dispersion at all.

For example, one rule of thumb is 20% of room surface in absorption, 25% in dispersion.
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post #10718 of 10726 Old Yesterday, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post
I'm not sure where you got that. I don't think I've seen that whole-wall coverage recommendation, ever. That would make for a very dead room. And you'd have no dispersion at all.

For example, one rule of thumb is 20% of room surface in absorption, 25% in dispersion.
I've seen room designed with 705 as dispersion. The room I saw this is with the hidden in Bethesda build
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post #10719 of 10726 Unread Yesterday, 02:12 PM
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Where to get OC703 or 705 in larger sheets

I need 7 sheets of OC703 or OC705 (or something equivalent to) in 1" X48" X 96". I see them everywhere as 24" X 48". Where can I get a larger sheet?
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post #10720 of 10726 Unread Yesterday, 02:21 PM
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You'll need to call around to local insulation suppliers. There's a place in the Twin Cities that sells it full sheets, so it's definitely available. Ask for rigid fiberglass insulation rather than a specific product name. If they are not an OC supplier, they might carry Johns Manville Insul-SHIELD. It's basically the same product.

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Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?
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post #10721 of 10726 Unread Yesterday, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
I've seen room designed with 705 as dispersion. The room I saw this is with the hidden in Bethesda build
Really! Boy... I'd be interested in that! I'm trying to figure out how to make my dispersion panels in the easiest way. Curvy? Post-y? 4x4's? They're all so tedious to build and expensive to buy.
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post #10722 of 10726 Unread Yesterday, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
Really! Boy... I'd be interested in that! I'm trying to figure out how to make my dispersion panels in the easiest way. Curvy? Post-y? 4x4's? They're all so tedious to build and expensive to buy.
if you find this out, let me know as well :-)
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post #10723 of 10726 Unread Today, 05:31 AM
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how does this QuietR® Textile Duct Liner compare to linacoustic?

Panasonic 65VT30 | Panasonic AE8000 HD PJ | Denon x4100 ATMOS 5.2.4| Emotiva XPR-5 | PSA MT110 x 3 FL/C/FR | PSA MT110sur surrounds | DUAL PSA XS30 | OPPO 103 | minidsp | Buttkicker LFE

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post #10724 of 10726 Unread Today, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post
Really! Boy... I'd be interested in that! I'm trying to figure out how to make my dispersion panels in the easiest way. Curvy? Post-y? 4x4's? They're all so tedious to build and expensive to buy.
GIK acoustics' gridfusor is one of the cheapest commercial diffusion products I have found. It's a 13-root QRD diffusor and you get 2' x 4' for 100 $. For that price, you either need to have loads of spare time on your hand, or work for 10-15 $ / hour, to make it worthwhile making your own...
They come in all colors, as long as you order a white ;-)

Cheers,
Jacob
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post #10725 of 10726 Unread Today, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BllDo View Post
You'll need to call around to local insulation suppliers. There's a place in the Twin Cities that sells it full sheets, so it's definitely available. Ask for rigid fiberglass insulation rather than a specific product name. If they are not an OC supplier, they might carry Johns Manville Insul-SHIELD. It's basically the same product.
Correct on the Johns Manville. Just a note, even if you use 2'x4' panels you can still make a larger frame and use multiple panels inside. A bit more tricky but can be done.

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post #10726 of 10726 Unread Today, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacob B View Post
GIK acoustics' gridfusor is one of the cheapest commercial diffusion products I have found. It's a 13-root QRD diffusor and you get 2' x 4' for 100 $. For that price, you either need to have loads of spare time on your hand, or work for 10-15 $ / hour, to make it worthwhile making your own...
They come in all colors, as long as you order a white ;-)

Cheers,
Jacob
Thanks for the info...this will help. Now I just gotta figure out if they will help me :-)


More work in REW to learn what I don't know
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