Acoustical Treatments Master Thread - Page 361 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 103Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #10801 of 10816 Old 04-05-2015, 03:47 PM
Advanced Member
 
PretzelFisch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 678
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 131 Post(s)
Liked: 174
How important is it to start from the floor all the way to the ceiling with a corner bass trap what would happen if you start a foot up the wall?
PretzelFisch is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #10802 of 10816 Old 04-05-2015, 04:16 PM
Senior Member
 
nvidio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: beer city (aka Belgium)
Posts: 427
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by PretzelFisch View Post
How important is it to start from the floor all the way to the ceiling with a corner bass trap what would happen if you start a foot up the wall?
Quote:
Bass builds up more strongly in the corners of your room, and most strongly in trihedral corners (wall-wall-ceiling and wall-wall-floor intersections). Technically speaking, the variation of sound pressure for all frequencies is maximum in the trihedral corners.
Source: http://arqen.com/bass-traps-101/placement-guide
nvidio is offline  
post #10803 of 10816 Old 04-05-2015, 05:21 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 20,667
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2040 Post(s)
Liked: 1310
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post
^^ so are you saying that broadband absorption is better than linacoustic sandwhich for the front?
If you're going to absorb, then absorb broadband (unless you're using absorbers as a form of tone control to reduce higher frequencies).

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #10804 of 10816 Old 04-06-2015, 07:39 AM
Advanced Member
 
myfipie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by PretzelFisch View Post
How important is it to start from the floor all the way to the ceiling with a corner bass trap what would happen if you start a foot up the wall?
IMO it comes down to the more area you cover the better the response will be. Needless to say though starting with only half the corner is better then nothing, but you will notice a large improvement when the whole corner is covered floor to ceiling.

Glenn Kuras
GIK Acoustics

http://www.gikacoustics.com

myfipie is offline  
post #10805 of 10816 Old 04-06-2015, 08:02 AM
Advanced Member
 
PretzelFisch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 678
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 131 Post(s)
Liked: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by myfipie View Post
IMO it comes down to the more area you cover the better the response will be. Needless to say though starting with only half the corner is better then nothing, but you will notice a large improvement when the whole corner is covered floor to ceiling.
Thanks, I have the sub up against the two front corners of my room. So I am trying to figure out if i should pull them out enough so a tri trap fits behind it or on top of it. My current thinking is on top of sub up to the ceiling.
PretzelFisch is online now  
post #10806 of 10816 Old 04-06-2015, 09:07 AM
Senior Member
 
nitro28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I can get Thermafiber Ultrabatt mineral wool easily and cheap at menards in 2'x4' pieces. Am I ok using this for bass traps in triangles? I have read so much I am confused now. I know the pink fluffy stuff works, but seems like more work due to having to support it from being compressed. The triangles stacked from floor to ceiling seem pretty simple. I could order OC 703 but its pricey and Roxul has to be ordered to. Hoping this Thermafiber would work about the same. 17x17x34" triangles. Thanks.

http://www.menards.com/main/building...145-c-5780.htm

James

My theater build 2015 (Circle N theater)
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html
nitro28 is online now  
post #10807 of 10816 Old 04-07-2015, 07:30 AM
Advanced Member
 
myfipie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by PretzelFisch View Post
Thanks, I have the sub up against the two front corners of my room. So I am trying to figure out if i should pull them out enough so a tri trap fits behind it or on top of it. My current thinking is on top of sub up to the ceiling.
I would try it both ways to see how it sounds. Keep in mind that you can also lay the Tri Traps across front wall along the wall if that fits better.

Glenn Kuras
GIK Acoustics

http://www.gikacoustics.com

myfipie is offline  
post #10808 of 10816 Old 04-07-2015, 07:33 AM
Advanced Member
 
myfipie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitro28 View Post
I can get Thermafiber Ultrabatt mineral wool easily and cheap at menards in 2'x4' pieces. Am I ok using this for bass traps in triangles? I have read so much I am confused now. I know the pink fluffy stuff works, but seems like more work due to having to support it from being compressed. The triangles stacked from floor to ceiling seem pretty simple. I could order OC 703 but its pricey and Roxul has to be ordered to. Hoping this Thermafiber would work about the same. 17x17x34" triangles. Thanks.

http://www.menards.com/main/building...145-c-5780.htm
Never used the Thermafiber stuff but seems kind of like the knauf we sell that people do corners with.
http://www.gikacoustics.com/product/...rglass-1-6-lb/

Glenn Kuras
GIK Acoustics

http://www.gikacoustics.com

myfipie is offline  
post #10809 of 10816 Old 04-08-2015, 07:17 AM
Senior Member
 
nitro28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by myfipie View Post
Never used the Thermafiber stuff but seems kind of like the knauf we sell that people do corners with.
http://www.gikacoustics.com/product/...rglass-1-6-lb/
Thanks, so in your opinion is there really much of a difference in any of the types of insulation for bass traps (i.e. OC 703, Pink Fluffy, Mineral wool etc. ) If its really more about thickness and placement I'll just go with this easy to find mineral wool. Thanks.

James

My theater build 2015 (Circle N theater)
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html
nitro28 is online now  
post #10810 of 10816 Old 04-08-2015, 07:23 AM
Advanced Member
 
myfipie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitro28 View Post
Thanks, so in your opinion is there really much of a difference in any of the types of insulation for bass traps (i.e. OC 703, Pink Fluffy, Mineral wool etc. ) If its really more about thickness and placement I'll just go with this easy to find mineral wool. Thanks.
That depends on the thickness. Generally speaking for absorption below 6" I would use 3 pound.. For filling the corner and or thicker panels I would use less dense.

Glenn Kuras
GIK Acoustics

http://www.gikacoustics.com

myfipie is offline  
post #10811 of 10816 Old 04-14-2015, 08:46 AM
Member
 
emr25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 21
I've been exchanging emails with GIK regarding my small HT room. I'd like to see what type of advice is offered here as well. The equipment is listed in my signature.

If you had to prioritize how you would treat the room shown in the linked image using GIK (or similar) products, where would you start? First priority, second, third, etc. Assume price is not a concern, although it will be (I'd like to spend ~$500 now and get the best improvement possible, with the potential to add more later).

Thanks in advance for the advice, room treatments are a relatively new concept for me, but I believe they are the next logical step in my room.

Edit: Added additional images for reference.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	HT Layout.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	65.2 KB
ID:	665618   Click image for larger version

Name:	image_1429033881820.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	89.1 KB
ID:	665786   Click image for larger version

Name:	image_1429033902208.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	85.2 KB
ID:	665794  

Video - Panasonic VT50 55" | Panasonic BDT320
AVR - Denon X4000 | Sherbourn PA 7-350
Speakers - JTR Noesis 228HT | DIY Sound Group Volt V10 | JTR Captivator S2

Last edited by emr25; 04-14-2015 at 10:51 AM.
emr25 is online now  
post #10812 of 10816 Old 04-14-2015, 03:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
artur9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: near philly
Posts: 1,019
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by emr25 View Post
If you had to prioritize how you would treat the room shown in the linked image using GIK (or similar) products, where would you start?

You didn't say what you were hoping to achieve. Better dialogue clarity, improved imaging, improved bass, improved soundstage?

Eventually you can have all that but it's hard to prioritize without that piece of info.
artur9 is offline  
post #10813 of 10816 Old 04-14-2015, 06:40 PM
Member
 
emr25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by emr25 View Post
If you had to prioritize how you would treat the room shown in the linked image using GIK (or similar) products, where would you start?

You didn't say what you were hoping to achieve. Better dialogue clarity, improved imaging, improved bass, improved soundstage?

Eventually you can have all that but it's hard to prioritize without that piece of info.
Good point. I'm not sure to be honest, I guess I could say that I'm looking for more control at higher volumes. I do think the speakers I have are very clear and dynamic, even up to and beyond reference. But I know I am overpowering the space at times, so whatever that translates to (if anything at all!) is what I'm looking for.
emr25 is online now  
post #10814 of 10816 Old Yesterday, 03:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
HopefulFred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,083
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 283 Post(s)
Liked: 259
I'm going to guess that means your decay times are a little out of whack. That's common. The challenge (if true) is finding ways to bring it down in the ranges that need to be brought down. Chances are some commonly available bass traps are a good choice - like 244 bass traps or monster traps (to mention the GIK products, since you started with them).

Ethan Winer has always said (don't let me put words in his mouth, but I'm trying to paraphrase and capture the spirit of his remarks) that everyone needs bass traps and the more the better. I have always liked that advice.

When low frequency sound is allowed to persist too long (insufficient damping), the accentuated bass can overwhelm your sense of hearing and make other neighboring frequency ranges obscured. This can lead to speech intelligibility problems and bloated bass in music. So, that's what I suspect is happening when you turn up the volume.

Alternatively, you could try turning down the bass. Does that help, or just make you sad?
HopefulFred is offline  
post #10815 of 10816 Old Yesterday, 03:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
HopefulFred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,083
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 283 Post(s)
Liked: 259
I'm going to guess that means your decay times are a little out of whack. That's common. The challenge (if true) is finding ways to bring it down in the ranges that need to be brought down. Chances are some commonly available bass traps are a good choice - like 244 bass traps or monster traps (to mention the GIK products, since you started with them).

Ethan Winer has always said (don't let me put words in his mouth, but I'm trying to paraphrase and capture the spirit of his remarks) that everyone needs bass traps and the more the better. I have always liked that advice.

When low frequency sound is allowed to persist too long (insufficient damping), the accentuated bass can overwhelm your sense of hearing and make other neighboring frequency ranges obscured. This can lead to speech intelligibility problems and bloated bass in music. So, that's what I suspect is happening when you turn up the volume.

Alternatively, you could try turning down the bass. Does that help, or just make you sad?
HopefulFred is offline  
post #10816 of 10816 Old Today, 07:40 AM
Member
 
emr25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post
I'm going to guess that means your decay times are a little out of whack. That's common. The challenge (if true) is finding ways to bring it down in the ranges that need to be brought down. Chances are some commonly available bass traps are a good choice - like 244 bass traps or monster traps (to mention the GIK products, since you started with them).

Ethan Winer has always said (don't let me put words in his mouth, but I'm trying to paraphrase and capture the spirit of his remarks) that everyone needs bass traps and the more the better. I have always liked that advice.

When low frequency sound is allowed to persist too long (insufficient damping), the accentuated bass can overwhelm your sense of hearing and make other neighboring frequency ranges obscured. This can lead to speech intelligibility problems and bloated bass in music. So, that's what I suspect is happening when you turn up the volume.

Alternatively, you could try turning down the bass. Does that help, or just make you sad?
I went ahead and ordered (3) Monster Bass Traps (Range Limiter) and (2) 244 Bass Traps (Full Range). The MBTs will be positioned vertically on the rear wall. The 244s will be positioned vertically on the front wall behind the L/R speakers. All of the panels will be in the Guilford of Maine 408 Black fabric.

This should be a good start in improving the acoustics in the room, it seemed to be a trend (just as in your advice) that absorbing bass should be the first priority.

And to answer your last question, I am in a ~960 ft^3 suspended floor room with JTR Noesis 228HT mains and a JTR Captivator S2 subwoofer. I honestly don't go much above -8.0 dB MV very often for movies, but with that kind of capability it certainly gets cranked up on occasion!

Video - Panasonic VT50 55" | Panasonic BDT320
AVR - Denon X4000 | Sherbourn PA 7-350
Speakers - JTR Noesis 228HT | DIY Sound Group Volt V10 | JTR Captivator S2
emr25 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

Tags
Fv15hp Subwoofer , Denon , Audyssey



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off