Acoustical Treatments Master Thread - Page 361 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 04-05-2015, 03:47 PM
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How important is it to start from the floor all the way to the ceiling with a corner bass trap what would happen if you start a foot up the wall?
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Old 04-05-2015, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by PretzelFisch View Post
How important is it to start from the floor all the way to the ceiling with a corner bass trap what would happen if you start a foot up the wall?
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Bass builds up more strongly in the corners of your room, and most strongly in trihedral corners (wall-wall-ceiling and wall-wall-floor intersections). Technically speaking, the variation of sound pressure for all frequencies is maximum in the trihedral corners.
Source: http://arqen.com/bass-traps-101/placement-guide
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Old 04-05-2015, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post
^^ so are you saying that broadband absorption is better than linacoustic sandwhich for the front?
If you're going to absorb, then absorb broadband (unless you're using absorbers as a form of tone control to reduce higher frequencies).

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Old 04-06-2015, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by PretzelFisch View Post
How important is it to start from the floor all the way to the ceiling with a corner bass trap what would happen if you start a foot up the wall?
IMO it comes down to the more area you cover the better the response will be. Needless to say though starting with only half the corner is better then nothing, but you will notice a large improvement when the whole corner is covered floor to ceiling.

Glenn Kuras
GIK Acoustics

http://www.gikacoustics.com

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Old 04-06-2015, 08:02 AM
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IMO it comes down to the more area you cover the better the response will be. Needless to say though starting with only half the corner is better then nothing, but you will notice a large improvement when the whole corner is covered floor to ceiling.
Thanks, I have the sub up against the two front corners of my room. So I am trying to figure out if i should pull them out enough so a tri trap fits behind it or on top of it. My current thinking is on top of sub up to the ceiling.
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Old 04-06-2015, 09:07 AM
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I can get Thermafiber Ultrabatt mineral wool easily and cheap at menards in 2'x4' pieces. Am I ok using this for bass traps in triangles? I have read so much I am confused now. I know the pink fluffy stuff works, but seems like more work due to having to support it from being compressed. The triangles stacked from floor to ceiling seem pretty simple. I could order OC 703 but its pricey and Roxul has to be ordered to. Hoping this Thermafiber would work about the same. 17x17x34" triangles. Thanks.

http://www.menards.com/main/building...145-c-5780.htm

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My theater build 2015 (Circle N theater)
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html
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Old 04-07-2015, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by PretzelFisch View Post
Thanks, I have the sub up against the two front corners of my room. So I am trying to figure out if i should pull them out enough so a tri trap fits behind it or on top of it. My current thinking is on top of sub up to the ceiling.
I would try it both ways to see how it sounds. Keep in mind that you can also lay the Tri Traps across front wall along the wall if that fits better.

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GIK Acoustics

http://www.gikacoustics.com

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Old 04-07-2015, 07:33 AM
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I can get Thermafiber Ultrabatt mineral wool easily and cheap at menards in 2'x4' pieces. Am I ok using this for bass traps in triangles? I have read so much I am confused now. I know the pink fluffy stuff works, but seems like more work due to having to support it from being compressed. The triangles stacked from floor to ceiling seem pretty simple. I could order OC 703 but its pricey and Roxul has to be ordered to. Hoping this Thermafiber would work about the same. 17x17x34" triangles. Thanks.

http://www.menards.com/main/building...145-c-5780.htm
Never used the Thermafiber stuff but seems kind of like the knauf we sell that people do corners with.
http://www.gikacoustics.com/product/...rglass-1-6-lb/

Glenn Kuras
GIK Acoustics

http://www.gikacoustics.com

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Old 04-08-2015, 07:17 AM
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Never used the Thermafiber stuff but seems kind of like the knauf we sell that people do corners with.
http://www.gikacoustics.com/product/...rglass-1-6-lb/
Thanks, so in your opinion is there really much of a difference in any of the types of insulation for bass traps (i.e. OC 703, Pink Fluffy, Mineral wool etc. ) If its really more about thickness and placement I'll just go with this easy to find mineral wool. Thanks.

James

My theater build 2015 (Circle N theater)
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html
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Old 04-08-2015, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by nitro28 View Post
Thanks, so in your opinion is there really much of a difference in any of the types of insulation for bass traps (i.e. OC 703, Pink Fluffy, Mineral wool etc. ) If its really more about thickness and placement I'll just go with this easy to find mineral wool. Thanks.
That depends on the thickness. Generally speaking for absorption below 6" I would use 3 pound.. For filling the corner and or thicker panels I would use less dense.

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GIK Acoustics

http://www.gikacoustics.com

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Old 04-14-2015, 08:46 AM
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I've been exchanging emails with GIK regarding my small HT room. I'd like to see what type of advice is offered here as well. The equipment is listed in my signature.

If you had to prioritize how you would treat the room shown in the linked image using GIK (or similar) products, where would you start? First priority, second, third, etc. Assume price is not a concern, although it will be (I'd like to spend ~$500 now and get the best improvement possible, with the potential to add more later).

Thanks in advance for the advice, room treatments are a relatively new concept for me, but I believe they are the next logical step in my room.

Edit: Added additional images for reference.
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Video - Panasonic VT50 55" | Panasonic BDT320
AVR - Denon X4000 | Sherbourn PA 7-350
Speakers - JTR Noesis 228HT | DIY Sound Group Volt V10 | JTR Captivator S2

Last edited by emr25; 04-14-2015 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 04-14-2015, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by emr25 View Post
If you had to prioritize how you would treat the room shown in the linked image using GIK (or similar) products, where would you start?

You didn't say what you were hoping to achieve. Better dialogue clarity, improved imaging, improved bass, improved soundstage?

Eventually you can have all that but it's hard to prioritize without that piece of info.
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Old 04-14-2015, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by emr25 View Post
If you had to prioritize how you would treat the room shown in the linked image using GIK (or similar) products, where would you start?

You didn't say what you were hoping to achieve. Better dialogue clarity, improved imaging, improved bass, improved soundstage?

Eventually you can have all that but it's hard to prioritize without that piece of info.
Good point. I'm not sure to be honest, I guess I could say that I'm looking for more control at higher volumes. I do think the speakers I have are very clear and dynamic, even up to and beyond reference. But I know I am overpowering the space at times, so whatever that translates to (if anything at all!) is what I'm looking for.
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Old 04-15-2015, 03:21 PM
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I'm going to guess that means your decay times are a little out of whack. That's common. The challenge (if true) is finding ways to bring it down in the ranges that need to be brought down. Chances are some commonly available bass traps are a good choice - like 244 bass traps or monster traps (to mention the GIK products, since you started with them).

Ethan Winer has always said (don't let me put words in his mouth, but I'm trying to paraphrase and capture the spirit of his remarks) that everyone needs bass traps and the more the better. I have always liked that advice.

When low frequency sound is allowed to persist too long (insufficient damping), the accentuated bass can overwhelm your sense of hearing and make other neighboring frequency ranges obscured. This can lead to speech intelligibility problems and bloated bass in music. So, that's what I suspect is happening when you turn up the volume.

Alternatively, you could try turning down the bass. Does that help, or just make you sad?
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:40 AM
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I'm going to guess that means your decay times are a little out of whack. That's common. The challenge (if true) is finding ways to bring it down in the ranges that need to be brought down. Chances are some commonly available bass traps are a good choice - like 244 bass traps or monster traps (to mention the GIK products, since you started with them).

Ethan Winer has always said (don't let me put words in his mouth, but I'm trying to paraphrase and capture the spirit of his remarks) that everyone needs bass traps and the more the better. I have always liked that advice.

When low frequency sound is allowed to persist too long (insufficient damping), the accentuated bass can overwhelm your sense of hearing and make other neighboring frequency ranges obscured. This can lead to speech intelligibility problems and bloated bass in music. So, that's what I suspect is happening when you turn up the volume.

Alternatively, you could try turning down the bass. Does that help, or just make you sad?
I went ahead and ordered (3) Monster Bass Traps (Range Limiter) and (2) 244 Bass Traps (Full Range). The MBTs will be positioned vertically on the rear wall. The 244s will be positioned vertically on the front wall behind the L/R speakers. All of the panels will be in the Guilford of Maine 408 Black fabric.

This should be a good start in improving the acoustics in the room, it seemed to be a trend (just as in your advice) that absorbing bass should be the first priority.

And to answer your last question, I am in a ~960 ft^3 suspended floor room with JTR Noesis 228HT mains and a JTR Captivator S2 subwoofer. I honestly don't go much above -8.0 dB MV very often for movies, but with that kind of capability it certainly gets cranked up on occasion!

Video - Panasonic VT50 55" | Panasonic BDT320
AVR - Denon X4000 | Sherbourn PA 7-350
Speakers - JTR Noesis 228HT | DIY Sound Group Volt V10 | JTR Captivator S2
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Old 04-22-2015, 03:21 AM
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I am sure there is an answer to my question in these 361 pages but unfortunately I haven't been able to find it. It appears that most of the DIY builders here are covering their walls with absorber like linacoustic covered with fabric like GOM but the layout plans from professionals that are shared here on the forum have acoustic treatment plan mostly composed of acoustic panels.

Which one is more effective and which one is more economical for a dedicated HT??
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Old 04-22-2015, 03:21 AM
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I am sure there is an answer to my question in these 361 pages but unfortunately I haven't been able to find it. It appears that most of the DIY builders here are covering their walls with absorber like linacoustic covered with fabric like GOM but the layout plans from professionals that are shared here on the forum have acoustic treatment plan mostly composed of acoustic panels.

Which one is more effective and which one is more economical for a dedicated HT??
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Old 04-22-2015, 04:54 AM
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A complete system engineered by an experienced professional is almost always going to outperform a system put together by a DIYer using only absorption. The difference in price is probably in the 10x region, so there's the rub.

A competent and careful DIYer will probably find use for diffusion in a few places, and may need some iteration in practice to get everything as good as they can manage, so that closes the gap a little on the price difference, in some cases, but also on the performance gap as well.
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Old 04-22-2015, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by nonstopdoc1 View Post
I am sure there is an answer to my question in these 361 pages but unfortunately I haven't been able to find it. It appears that most of the DIY builders here are covering their walls with absorber like linacoustic covered with fabric like GOM but the layout plans from professionals that are shared here on the forum have acoustic treatment plan mostly composed of acoustic panels.

Which one is more effective and which one is more economical for a dedicated HT??
I think its also easier for companies to sell acoustic treatments if they are smaller. It's easier to sell a 2'x4' panel vs a roll of something that you have to put up and mount. That being said the goal from everything I have read is to not have your entire room covered in treatments, nor is it to just put up a few panels. It seems to be more of a even split, about 50% treatments, 50% bare, but its also about placement, like first reflection points. In my room my front and back walls are about 80-90% treated, then the sides about 50% (addressing first reflection points). The one thing I wish I could have done was a little more diffusion but with only about 2" of space between my dry wall and fabric system, diffusion wasn't going to help too much, so I did what little I could do, but mainly did absorption. In the end though it really comes down to two things, how picky you are about acoustics and how much money you have. If you have a ton of money, you pay someone to come out and acoustically tune your room. Otherwise you read what you can on the forums and try the best you can with what your room has to offer as well as your budget.
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Old Today, 05:37 AM
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I think its also easier for companies to sell acoustic treatments if they are smaller. It's easier to sell a 2'x4' panel vs a roll of something that you have to put up and mount. That being said the goal from everything I have read is to not have your entire room covered in treatments, nor is it to just put up a few panels. It seems to be more of a even split, about 50% treatments, 50% bare, but its also about placement, like first reflection points. In my room my front and back walls are about 80-90% treated, then the sides about 50% (addressing first reflection points). The one thing I wish I could have done was a little more diffusion but with only about 2" of space between my dry wall and fabric system, diffusion wasn't going to help too much, so I did what little I could do, but mainly did absorption. In the end though it really comes down to two things, how picky you are about acoustics and how much money you have. If you have a ton of money, you pay someone to come out and acoustically tune your room. Otherwise you read what you can on the forums and try the best you can with what your room has to offer as well as your budget.
Agree but also disagree a bit. For a professional room, which we do A LOT of we can cover almost all wall/ceiling surfaces with either absorption (tuned and or broadband) or diffusion. The trick is figuring out what areas can benefit the most from either and using the right type. Needless to say you are a 100% correct that addressing things like first/early reflection points, bass trapping in corners and thick absorption for the back wall is the first line of defense. Actually just being set up correctly in the room can make a world of difference.
http://www.gikacoustics.com/basics-r...ls-bass-traps/

Glenn Kuras
GIK Acoustics

http://www.gikacoustics.com

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Old Today, 11:58 AM
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This is not the actual product, just for reference. The local building supply has the CertainTeed, R-11 Soundshield. Comes in 2'X8'X3 1/2" strips (16 total). Not referenced on Bob Golds site. Great price @ $87. I know to remove the backing; will this be acceptable for making panels? I'm trying to avoid the high shipping costs of other products.

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Old Today, 03:29 PM
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Here are some pics (front and back) of my HT
My current acoustic treatment consists of :
3 GIK 244 Bass TGraps (burdendy) panels on each side wall - measured via mirror to 3 front speakers
2 Black DIY panels behind each front speaker - 4" thick , 2'x2' (not sure as I got it from an AVS'er)
5 Black DIY panels (same as above) on back wall- 1 smack center (next to desk), 2 vertical to the right of that, +1 to the right of that, + 1 to the right of that, on the floor in the corner

Approx. Room Dimensions 22x14x6.5' heightw, ith a soffit front to back along the left (About 1' from the side wall)
Of course I'd like everything, but my #1 priority is dialogue clarity (currently not great)
My Speaker setup: Goldenear Triton 2's (with built in subs) Goldenear SuperCenter XL, DefTech 8080st surrounds, GoldenEar SS 50C (rear), w/SVS 20-39 pci powered sub

What do you recommend that I do to rearrange what I got , or supplement it.
thx!
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