Acoustical Treatments Master Thread - Page 362 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10831 of 10858 Old 04-26-2015, 09:05 PM
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Yup. Soundproofing does not equal acoustical treatments, however you can get great benefits from a decent effort in soundproofing a room. Not just to keep sound in, but to keep other sounds out. Still not acoustically treating the room though.
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post #10832 of 10858 Old 04-28-2015, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgott42 View Post
Do you have a link to a ceiling cloud to buy or make. also I have low ceilings, so I can't have something hanging low
Thx
Since you have our products, most of our customers use something like attached. Though it does put a 4" gap (recommend) between the panel and the ceiling.
http://www.gikacoustics.com/product/...ting-brackets/

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post #10833 of 10858 Old 05-01-2015, 12:21 AM
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Complaint from neighbor

I recently did setup my 7.2 home theater system and unfortunately there is a window(8x4) in the center of the media room wall. Our neighbor's master bedroom is across that window and they are complaining that they are hearing a lot of noise in their bedroom.

I have been searching for ways to somehow eliminate the sound going out the window. Can someone please share what is the economical way of getting the sound arrested going outside through the window? Does a good set of curtains help?

I am newbie to this whole home theater experience so please help me with your suggestions.

Thanks!
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post #10834 of 10858 Old 05-01-2015, 09:46 AM
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post #10835 of 10858 Old 05-04-2015, 10:10 PM
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hAS ANYONE ANY EXPERIENCE/INPUT/USAGE OF THIS?
Murano Home Furnishing, FOAM FOR SOUND CONTROL,
ACOUSTIC WEDGES 1" OR 2" HEIGHT?, 12 X 12"

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post #10836 of 10858 Old 05-04-2015, 10:10 PM
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hAS ANYONE ANY EXPERIENCE/INPUT/USAGE OF THIS?
Murano Home Furnishing, FOAM FOR SOUND CONTROL,
ACOUSTIC WEDGES 1" OR 2" HEIGHT?, 12 X 12"

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , Emotiva UPA7, for 7.3.4 ATMOS/DSU SHARP 80" LED/LCD
FL/FR: DIYSG Fusion 15's , Center: DIYSG 88 Special , SL/SR: RC3II , SRL/SRR: F-3Towers, TF & TR: SLX
2 30" BF THTLP'S , SUBMAXIMUS, 2 x Inuke6000DSP & 2 driverless LHORN cabs
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/401-di...rs-subwoofers/
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
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post #10837 of 10858 Old 05-06-2015, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
hAS ANYONE ANY EXPERIENCE/INPUT/USAGE OF THIS?
Murano Home Furnishing, FOAM FOR SOUND CONTROL,
ACOUSTIC WEDGES 1" OR 2" HEIGHT?, 12 X 12"
Generally speaking foam is not going to do much below 500hz or so. Basically sucking up the upper frequencies but still leaving the mids and low end bouncing around. The goal is to have as even of absorption across the board as possible.
http://www.gikacoustics.com/comparin...44-bass-traps/

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post #10838 of 10858 Old 05-06-2015, 10:24 AM
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The entrance to my home hall way is 4 x 12 x 8 hi and there is a 44" wide passage to the LR where most of the stuff in my sig is . .
That hallway is all hard and all parallel surfaces and maybe a world class site for being able to demo clap/flutter echo
after viewing a number of you tube vids, of all types, yep! you got flutter and its very pronounced . . while standing in that hallway

I want to minimize its effect wrt being some sort of adjacent echo chamber for the main room,
i really can't begin to evaluate and/or quantify its overall contribution to sound degradation wrt MLP, which is about 15' away
the bass build up there is "impressive" and that just can't be good for LF overall (entire LR + attached spaces are close to 5K^3)
I don't expect to kill every problem this small space creates, but it could be a start
so my intent wrt to the foam wedges was to significantly dampen flutter

I could also build some SnS 3" panels 15 x 47 or 23.5 x 60 or any geometry staggered in that hall way set off the wall by 3" (extended french cleats)
I use sheer curtain material, primarily black and dark red for my covers, being AT, and the decorative/artistic "look" can be eclectic ,
I have ZERO WAF so if I like it , and it works, mostly, it's good

and then there is the evaluation and attack for what problems i undoubtedly have in my main listening area but i waiting to finish 2 more subs before I enter that branch of the rabbit hole
In the meantime, Audussey and the inukle makes for a good ATMOS/DSU environment

so if I ask, wedges or panels? I expect words about both and then there is someone who will say try it and get back to us, and some will say both, why not
constructive input appreciated

thank you

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post #10839 of 10858 Old 05-06-2015, 01:38 PM
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My room is 12x20x8 and is covered with 1" thick panels. Some of the panels have oc703.
My current plan is to raise some of the panels at the first reflection points of my lcr speakers. Would raising them to 3" while filling the first reflection points with 3" of oc703 be enough. I can't go 4" but I may be able to stretch it to 3.5". The later option would require me to slice a sheet of a 1" oc703 into 2 halves..

I am also planning later to take some of the drywall out off the ceiling and insert more oc703 at the first reflection points then seal it with black fabric. This way I don't have panels hanging off my low ceiling.

I have no plans for the back side of my room. Any suggestions regarding that part would be appreciated.. I want to keep the room sounding live... Would leaving the back with no treatments be a good solution?

This is a picture showing the panels I currently have. I have more picture in my theatre upgrade thread in my signature.
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post #10840 of 10858 Old 05-06-2015, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post
My room is 12x20x8 and is covered with 1" thick panels. Some of the panels have oc703.
My current plan is to raise some of the panels at the first reflection points of my lcr speakers. Would raising them to 3" while filling the first reflection points with 3" of oc703 be enough. I can't go 4" but I may be able to stretch it to 3.5". The later option would require me to slice a sheet of a 1" oc703 into 2 halves..

I am also planning later to take some of the drywall out off the ceiling and insert more oc703 at the first reflection points then seal it with black fabric. This way I don't have panels hanging off my low ceiling.

I have no plans for the back side of my room. Any suggestions regarding that part would be appreciated.. I want to keep the room sounding live... Would leaving the back with no treatments be a good solution?

This is a picture showing the panels I currently have. I have more picture in my theatre upgrade thread in my signature.
As a start, you could deaden the front of the room by placing a Linacoustic 'sandwich' (1" LA, layer of 4ml plastic, 1" LA) on entire front wall...and have absorbtion panels on just first reflection points on side walls and ceiling....personally, I would also place a pair of absorbers on the sides of your seating row to reduce back and forth reflections directly at ear...imagine a ping pong hitting back and forth hundreds of times per second and your sitting right between that chaos.

Some love the dead front and live back treatment plan...all depends on your room of course.

---------------------------------------------------------------
gear: 3x JTR 212HT ~ 4x JTR 8LP ~ 2x JTR Orbit Shifter LFU ~ 11x Elemental Designs eD6c ~ Marantz SR7008 ~ Panasonic PT-AE8000U ~ Elite 176" 2.35 ATS
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post #10841 of 10858 Old 05-06-2015, 05:58 PM
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I was planning on making panels behind each speaker (3" oc703) and stuff 6" in the corners.. Would the linacoustic have advantage over that? I think I am going to have to order extra oc703 so I am open to either material..

Quote:
Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post
As a start, you could deaden the front of the room by placing a Linacoustic 'sandwich' (1" LA, layer of 4ml plastic, 1" LA) on entire front wall...and have absorbtion panels on just first reflection points on side walls and ceiling....personally, I would also place a pair of absorbers on the sides of your seating row to reduce back and forth reflections directly at ear...imagine a ping pong hitting back and forth hundreds of times per second and your sitting right between that chaos.

Some love the dead front and live back treatment plan...all depends on your room of course.
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post #10842 of 10858 Old 05-07-2015, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post
I was planning on making panels behind each speaker (3" oc703) and stuff 6" in the corners.. Would the linacoustic have advantage over that? I think I am going to have to order extra oc703 so I am open to either material..
What are your issues with your current setup?
Just wondering what you're trying to achieve.
If you are having specific problems it will be easier to give advice.
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post #10843 of 10858 Old 05-08-2015, 06:31 AM
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My current setup only has 1" absorbers which don't do much for mid/low frequencies.
As a result my decay times were high when I measured them using REW.
I am not looking to do anything regarding subwoofer frequencies (<80 hz) as I am currently handing those with multiple subwoofers.

My main goal is reduce early reflections while keeping the room lively.

My plan so far:
3" panels of oc703 on the right / left walls on the 1st reflection points..
3-4" panels behind each speaker on the front wall
I have space on the front corners where I could add up to 6" of oc703 but I am not sure what that would accomplish.

Please feel free to criticize my plan as I just made it based on a few hours of reading.



Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudDad View Post
What are your issues with your current setup?
Just wondering what you're trying to achieve.
If you are having specific problems it will be easier to give advice.
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post #10844 of 10858 Old 05-08-2015, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post
My current setup only has 1" absorbers which don't do much for mid/low frequencies.
Would it be possible for you to put an air gap behind your current absorbers? Since you can measure, you could try that and see if it helps enough.
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post #10845 of 10858 Old 05-08-2015, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post
My current setup only has 1" absorbers which don't do much for mid/low frequencies.
As a result my decay times were high when I measured them using REW.
I am not looking to do anything regarding subwoofer frequencies (<80 hz) as I am currently handing those with multiple subwoofers.

My main goal is reduce early reflections while keeping the room lively.

My plan so far:
3" panels of oc703 on the right / left walls on the 1st reflection points..
3-4" panels behind each speaker on the front wall
I have space on the front corners where I could add up to 6" of oc703 but I am not sure what that would accomplish.

Please feel free to criticize my plan as I just made it based on a few hours of reading.
I'm certainly no expert at all, but I have been reading a lot.
Most common recommendations around here would be to put some bass traps in at least the front corners, the linacoustic sandwich on the front wall, some heavy treatment on the back wall like maybe 4" with a reflective coating, and then some percentage of your side walls with normally 2" panels. If you want lively you could probably go with 25% or something and definitely cover the first reflections.
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post #10846 of 10858 Old 05-09-2015, 10:18 AM
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Looking for acoustic treatment advice on a room we are building in an addition to our home. I'm sure this has been covered, but the search function a thread this size is borderline useless, and I read a fair bit of conflicting info.

The room unfortunately won't be a dedicated listening room, but I want to do as much as I can to optimize it for 2 channel listening (though it will have a 5.1 HT setup). The current design has the room as 17'x15'10". I think WAF may somewhat limit room treatments, though I will be abel to put some in, and have pretty wide latitude in speaker placement. Also, unlike my current listening space/living room, this will have thick carpet and be closed off from other areas of the house. Not sure yet if the ceiling will be vaulted or a tray, but will be at least 9 feet. If vaulted/lofted, it will be at its lowest point on the wall with the TV/front speakers, sloping up from there.

Thoughts on whether the room dimensions listed are such that they should be tweaked?

Any other advice for a room build I may not have found in my research (planning on prewiring for surrounds; less sure of how to prewire if we wanted to install a projector down the road). Also prewiring to allow outdoor speakers to be controlled from the avr.

My understanding is that using the formula f=1130/2d, The main room modes will be at 33.23 hz (length), 37.66 hz (width) and 56.50 hz for height, so my main focus should be bass traps in the rear corners. I read about the mirror test to place panels for minimizing first reflections at the listening position. Any other suggestions, are my priorities in the right order, and any acoustic treatment for dummies resources you can point me to?


FWIW, Speakers are NHT absolute towers up front, with a 2C center, and Def Tech PM800s for surrounds (for now at least). Currently have a Def Tech ProSub 1000 that is the next upgrade. Denon 1913 AVR.

Thanks in advance.
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post #10847 of 10858 Old 05-09-2015, 02:32 PM
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You might be interested in this room mode calculator for setting up your speakers first.








http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompa...ID=Calculators
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post #10848 of 10858 Old 05-10-2015, 09:30 AM
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Living room

Hi guys, i have a living room that i want to install acoustic panel to it. The size of the living room is 17' x 14' x 8' it has windows and a door behind the ht and opposite to the ht there is an entrance of 4' wide by 7' high. What type of panels should i use ?
I live in an apartment so the living room was already finished.
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post #10849 of 10858 Old 05-10-2015, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Murphy View Post
You might be interested in this room mode calculator for setting up your speakers first.








http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompa...ID=Calculators
Thanks. I'm not able to use the Excel calculator (mac ecosystem) and the other one seems a bit complicated for my purposes, but I will try to learn a bit more so that I can put it to use.

I took a stab at doing a mock up of the room lay out, if that could yield any additional advice. (the media center will probably be narrower than what is in the mock up, with the FL and FR speakers out from the wall and inside of the windows on the left wall. I'll do a sub crawl for SW placement, and the surround speakers will likely have to be just behind the sets of double doors, which should put them just at 20 degree behind the MLP in the center of the couch).

Thanks again.

EDIT: I looked at my plans again, and there is supposed to be a double window basically behind the loveseat, which I inadvertently omitted form the mock up.
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post #10850 of 10858 Old 05-12-2015, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
My understanding is that using the formula f=1130/2d, The main room modes will be at 33.23 hz (length), 37.66 hz (width) and 56.50 hz for height, so my main focus should be bass traps in the rear corners. I read about the mirror test to place panels for minimizing first reflections at the listening position. Any other suggestions, are my priorities in the right order, and any acoustic treatment for dummies resources you can point me to?
You are pretty much thinking in the right direction. 33hz is going to be pretty hard to tame but 66hz and above should be achievable with the right kind of bass trapping (basically as thick as you can stand) and covering as much corner area as you can. The only other thing I would add is THICK absorption on the back wall (this is the wall behind where you sit). The following article will give you a most of the answers for the set up.
http://www.gikacoustics.com/basics-r...ls-bass-traps/

Glenn Kuras
GIK Acoustics

http://www.gikacoustics.com

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post #10851 of 10858 Old 05-12-2015, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
My understanding is that using the formula f=1130/2d, The main room modes will be at 33.23 hz (length), 37.66 hz (width) and 56.50 hz for height, so my main focus should be bass traps in the rear corners. I read about the mirror test to place panels for minimizing first reflections at the listening position. Any other suggestions, are my priorities in the right order, and any acoustic treatment for dummies resources you can point me to?
You are pretty much thinking in the right direction. 33hz is going to be pretty hard to tame but 66hz and above should be achievable with the right kind of bass trapping (basically as thick as you can stand) and covering as much corner area as you can. The only other thing I would add is THICK absorption on the back wall (this is the wall behind where you sit). The following article will give you a most of the answers for the set up.
http://www.gikacoustics.com/basics-r...ls-bass-traps/
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post #10852 of 10858 Old 05-12-2015, 02:49 PM
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a general question wrt sizes of treatments

other than the fact of actual physical sizes of variously available materials to work with,
which tends to cause builders , in general it seems, to gravitate to "not thinking "outsized" the box" when constructing,
given the possibility of making it any size that fits or can be fitted,
except for the chance to make a space too dead,
any reason to not go big, 4' x 6' ,3" deep and 3" off the wall. for example
or could 6 of 2 x 2 maybe spread out produce a "better " result

any data or testing to illustrate real scientific differences?

curious

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , Emotiva UPA7, for 7.3.4 ATMOS/DSU SHARP 80" LED/LCD
FL/FR: DIYSG Fusion 15's , Center: DIYSG 88 Special , SL/SR: RC3II , SRL/SRR: F-3Towers, TF & TR: SLX
2 30" BF THTLP'S , SUBMAXIMUS, 2 x Inuke6000DSP & 2 driverless LHORN cabs
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/401-di...rs-subwoofers/
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
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post #10853 of 10858 Old 05-12-2015, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
any reason to not go big, 4' x 6' ,3&quot; deep and 3&quot; off the wall. for example
or could 6 of 2 x 2 maybe spread out produce a &quot;better &quot; result

any data or testing to illustrate real scientific differences?
Spreading absorption panels apart gives a free boost in LF absorption, more so between 250 hz and 80 hz (probably lower too), by as much as 60% absorption coefficients in the below example layout. This boost is larger the lower frequency that you go, in the frequency region that wool (glass wool, rock wool, cotton wool, etc) absorbers tend to perform much less well at -- it's not enough to flatten the absorption across all frequencies, but it helps.

For example consider
a) one absorption panel 12 foot by 12 foot by 4 inches deep.
vs
b) four absorption panels 12 foot by 3 foot by 4 inches deep, with a 3 foot (wall) space between.

They have the same surface area. All with frames so only the front is exposed (side 4 inches are covered).


For clarity, (b) absorbs more than (a), especially in the below 250hz region.



Similarly a checkerboard pattern is better than putting them all together, if the same wool surface area is used.

(The same area, used diagonally across corners, gives a much larger bass absorption boost, as much as 450% ~ 100hz; this goes beyond merely flattening the absorption coefficients by frequency, the coefficients are higher in LF.)

Above comments are mine (with error due to simplification), based on the work of the late great Eric Desart "Playing With Baffles" (with Prof. Dr. Ir. Gerrit Vermeir).
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post #10854 of 10858 Old 05-12-2015, 06:27 PM
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^
simplification and insights/science greatly appreciated
thank you

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , Emotiva UPA7, for 7.3.4 ATMOS/DSU SHARP 80" LED/LCD
FL/FR: DIYSG Fusion 15's , Center: DIYSG 88 Special , SL/SR: RC3II , SRL/SRR: F-3Towers, TF & TR: SLX
2 30" BF THTLP'S , SUBMAXIMUS, 2 x Inuke6000DSP & 2 driverless LHORN cabs
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/401-di...rs-subwoofers/
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
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post #10855 of 10858 Old 05-14-2015, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BasementBob View Post
Spreading absorption panels apart gives a free boost in LF absorption, more so between 250 hz and 80 hz (probably lower too), by as much as 60% absorption coefficients in the below example layout. This boost is larger the lower frequency that you go, in the frequency region that wool (glass wool, rock wool, cotton wool, etc) absorbers tend to perform much less well at -- it's not enough to flatten the absorption across all frequencies, but it helps.

For example consider
a) one absorption panel 12 foot by 12 foot by 4 inches deep.
vs
b) four absorption panels 12 foot by 3 foot by 4 inches deep, with a 3 foot (wall) space between.

They have the same surface area. All with frames so only the front is exposed (side 4 inches are covered).


For clarity, (b) absorbs more than (a), especially in the below 250hz region.



Similarly a checkerboard pattern is better than putting them all together, if the same wool surface area is used.

(The same area, used diagonally across corners, gives a much larger bass absorption boost, as much as 450% ~ 100hz; this goes beyond merely flattening the absorption coefficients by frequency, the coefficients are higher in LF.)

Above comments are mine (with error due to simplification), based on the work of the late great Eric Desart "Playing With Baffles" (with Prof. Dr. Ir. Gerrit Vermeir).
Hey Bob,

Great answer. Once I get a chance I will do a test with our Monster Traps in the standard 2'x2' spread on the back wall vs standard 2'x4' panels pushed together, on the back wall and post the results.

Just a note though, when it comes to places like early reflection points I have found that having larger panels is better vs covering that area needed with spaced out panels.
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Glenn Kuras
GIK Acoustics

http://www.gikacoustics.com

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post #10856 of 10858 Old 05-19-2015, 01:06 AM
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Hi,
I've come from the REW thread I've started to look into sorting out the sound in my home cinema room. I've had issues in the past and have just not got round to getting a start on sorting them. One main problem I have is that I didnt research enough when I was doing the room and I have a set of shelves installed either side of the screen. The AV gear is on the right. I realise now though that I should have had all of this installed at the back of the room. I would like to try and sort the room without having to start taking shelves out and rewiring power etc..

To start I have an acoustically transparent screen with the center speaker in behind. However there is also a big enough space behind the screen which I should fill. But I'm wondering if I should pack the entire space with insulation (rockwool) or if I would get away with place panels directly behind the screen and leaving the space? I can also put absorbtion panels above and below the screen. With regards to the shelving. On one side it was for bluray storage and the other the av gear. I could fill the unused spaces, and on the bluray side fill the backs, behind the blurays with absoption panels/insulation (although with the blurays at the front this would probably reflect the sound....)

At the moment he main issue I have is the lower frequency, takes quite a while to die off. Pretty new to this aspect of home theatre so its a learning experience. Any advice would be great

(Pics attached, dont have the pics with screen up on this PC, but pics added to show space behind screen. - and yeah I know, radiators will cause problems too )

Cheers.

Chris.

I will likely do this myself, buying the insulation etc. But have spotted some kits here in Ireland like the following : Link. Any opinion on that or is it overpriced for what it is?
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Last edited by Its Chris; 05-19-2015 at 03:05 AM.
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post #10857 of 10858 Unread Today, 12:24 PM
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Hi All,

Has anyone ever tested the absorption properties of paper backed wood veneer (usually 10 mil thick) bonded to something like 2" OC 705? I need to increase the amount of absorption in my room design below 300Hz. My front wall and rear walls are already taken up with treatments, and I only have 2" of depth available on the side walls. How would I go about testing the performance of this strategy without building a ton of them and potentially wasting a lot of money?

TIA,

Jonathan
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post #10858 of 10858 Unread Today, 12:28 PM
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Its Chris,

What is behind the large panels surrounding the screen? Empty air? I would think you could fill the space behind the screen along with removing those panels and fill those spaces too with a membrane trap covered by a porous absorber. That would eat into your decay times across the spectrum.

Also, if you're coming from the REW thread, do you have measurements of your current room?
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