Acoustical Treatments Master Thread - Page 385 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #11521 of 11546 Old 11-09-2016, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post
The room is not without issues with a alcove at the front right, a bay window centered at the left sidewall and a small glass panel to the right of and slightly behind the MLP.
Compared to some rooms I have seen it couldn't really be classed as a theater as such but its great to have the dedicated space.

If it wasn't considered to be off thread I could certainly post some pics.

Andy
Thanks Andy. I'm interested in seeing acoustic treatments and their placements etc. Even though each room is different, I like to get a feel for what others have done both from a performance and aesthetic perspective. If it's a pain, no need....I completely understand.

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post #11522 of 11546 Old 11-09-2016, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post
Thanks Andy. I'm interested in seeing acoustic treatments and their placements etc. Even though each room is different, I like to get a feel for what others have done both from a performance and aesthetic perspective. If it's a pain, no need....I completely understand.

Ron
Its no problem
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post #11523 of 11546 Old 11-09-2016, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post
Its no problem
Looks great. Thanks for sharing the pics. I was particular interested in the diffusion placement.

Thanks again
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post #11524 of 11546 Old 11-09-2016, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
I'm currently building a soffit that will be used as a bass trap around the room, it is 24" wide and 12" tall. What is the most suitable density rockwool insulation to use for stuffing? I was thinking of 3.0pcf but maybe I should go for something with even less density?

Also for the panels covering the first reflection points on the walls, should I go with 4" of 3.0, 4.5 or 6.0pcf rockwool?
Care to elaborate on this design and how it will work?

If it's of any value I was told to fill mine with R30 by my designer and then place linacoustic on the underside around the entire perimeter covered by fabric.
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post #11525 of 11546 Old 11-10-2016, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
Care to elaborate on this design and how it will work?

If it's of any value I was told to fill mine with R30 by my designer and then place linacoustic on the underside around the entire perimeter covered by fabric.
Due to the shape of my room I can't really do wall-wall corner traps due to windows. So instead the plan is to do wall-ceiling corner traps as part of a soffit 2ft wide, 1ft tall along three of the walls. Instead of using plasterboard as per typical soffit design I will build fabric panels for the bottom and front. The inside will be filled with insulation and nothing else as we don't use HVAC here.

I will not cover all walls with treatments, mainly the main reflection points with broadband absorbers.

My HT build: Tower Cinema - 9.1.6 in a 12'x12' room

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post #11526 of 11546 Old 11-10-2016, 07:53 PM
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Hey everyone. I am in the process of building out my theater room and having a blast so far. I come to you all for room treatment advice! I’ve been in touch with Bryan from GIK Acoustics and receiving some great advice as well. We’ve discussed options, but I’m looking for a bit more conversation regarding pros/cons of diffusion and absorption products, as GIK sells many types based on one’s needs. First, some background information.

Room Dimensions


The decibel measurements noted in the diagram were performed with pink noise running only through my subwoofer <= 80Hz and noting the level throughout the room. Measurements were taken pre-treatment. I’m not so sure this is useful, but something I figured could be. The majority of my equipment is contained in a rack located in the back closet. Speaker wire is pre-run everywhere, but I refuse to use low quality cable.

Room Pictures
















Current 2-channel setup
  • GoldenEar Triton Sevens
  • Klipsch SW-450 Subwoofer
  • MiniDSP 2x4 HD
  • Parasound Halo Integrated Amplifier
  • Blue Jeans Cables
  • MacBook Pro + Audirvana Plus (locally stored music + Tidal Hi-Fi)
Soon-to-be 2-channel setup
  • GoldenEar Triton Ones
  • Triton Sevens to go in the back as rear surrounds
  • All else to remain, but the subwoofer will no longer be used for music
What I’ve done so far
  • Speaker Placement
  • Main Listening Position Adjustment
  • Installed a pair of GIK soffit bass traps w/ range limiters in the back wall corners
Preferences & Requirements
  • I prioritize critical 2-channel music listening above all else, so I want the treatments to cater to this type of listening
  • Although I plan to expand my system to (eventually) 7.2.4, I don't want to treat anything that may negatively impact 2-channel music listening
  • I'm very open to treatment options and able to move equipment around the room
  • I will not be using a separate subwoofer when I get the Triton Ones for 2-channel music, as they are true full-range speakers. Therefore, I didn’t include my subwoofer measurements since it will be a moot point.
Triton Seven Measurements
Although the Triton Sevens don't perform very well below 55Hz in my room, you can see how careful placement has really improved the nulls I experienced. The red line indicates how my speakers and listening position were placed and the green line represents the new placement of the speakers and listening position. Bryan noted that the response is +/- 5db with no smoothing from 55-240hz with only a very narrow null beyond that cannot be heard.


What’s been recommended as a great next step
  • Two pair of (full range) Soffit bass traps for front wall corners (floor to ceiling)
  • Potentially another pair of (range limited) Soffit bass traps for the back wall corners to treat floor to ceiling.
  • 3 panels of absorption/diffusion for the center rear wall, either the Polyfusers or Alpha 6As
  • 244 bass traps or Q7D diffusers for the first order reflection points
  • 244 bass traps for the second order reflection points
Questions
  • I'll start by saying that I'm very receptive to any observations you have thus far. Now onto the questions!
  • I'm not sure which would work better for the back wall - Polyfusers or the Alpha 6A's - thoughts? Bryan noted that he recommends not totally killing the back wall for music listening applications, but listed pros/cons with each option, which doesn’t help my indecisiveness, lol
  • The Triton speaker line images incredibly well out of the box. With this in mind, would you recommend diffusion (Q7Ds) or absorption (244s) for the first order reflection points? I suspect 244's would be more appropriate for the ceiling.
  • Is there any reason not to go with GIK monster bass traps instead of the 244's for reflection point treatment? I’ve read many times on this thread that “the thicker the absorption, the better.”
  • As I don’t yet have the Triton Ones, I thought it best to hold off on purchasing reflection point treatment since their position may differ from where I have the Sevens. Is there anything else I should hold off until I have the new speakers?
  • Are there any other recommendations you have that haven't been mentioned? For instance, I'd expect that additional diffusion would be a good thing behind the listening position, etc., but I haven't gotten that far with Bryan - I'm trying my best to respect his time, take my treatment plan in a few phases, and not inundate him with a million questions. Since I don't have real-world experience to make a decision on theory, I'm looking for you guys to help solidify my treatment plan.
Regards,
-Austin

Parasound Halo Integrated Amplifier | Mac + Audirvana | Oppo BDP-103 | GoldenEar Triton 7 | Klipsch SW-450 Subwoofer | Blue Jeans Cables

Last edited by austin85; 11-12-2016 at 10:00 PM.
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post #11527 of 11546 Old 11-13-2016, 12:04 AM
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I have much to do to treat my currently untreated room.

But first, one question.

I have a 7.1 system.

When I go through my speakers on the AVR 1 by 1 (the level setting mode of Audyssey) with the pink noise or whatever it is, when either of the rear speakers are on, I actually hear it louder from the screen than from the rear of me.

I figure that can't be good. Shouldn't rear speakers sound like they are behind me?

I don't have an acoustically transparent (AT) screen. My screen covers 70% of the screen wall. So I don't see how to treat the front wall - it sounds like the rear speakers are just bouncing off the front screen.

I'm hoping this is a question the answers of which can teach me something good or cool from the smart experienced people.

Thanks in advance! My signature has my build thread if you're interested in all the details of my room.

Hardware and System engineer. Enjoy theaters, automation, media and the outdoors.
Love the hobby, but always have to remember to keep family first!
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post #11528 of 11546 Old 11-16-2016, 01:24 AM
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I'm building a small HT. 12 x 18. Basic cookie cutter build. I have a roll of 1" Linacoustic RC which I have planned to use 2" thick on the front wall. Just found a couple of cases of 1" cotton panels that can be had cheap.

So is there any real advantage to cotton over Linacoustic? Which would you choose?
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post #11529 of 11546 Old 11-16-2016, 03:10 PM
 
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Treating bass is a different thing than treating the higher frequencies (specifically managing dialogue intelligibility, or focus vs envelopment). Keep them separate from each other because you should have different goals for each.
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post #11530 of 11546 Old 11-17-2016, 03:10 PM
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Does GIK Acoustic ever have a sale, free shipping or any promotions like that? I have a bunch of their panels and want to add some bass traps and diffusion. The cost added up to crazy amounts rather quickly. I just bought a new processor for the home theater as well, if I drop a bunch of money on acoustic treatments now, I'll have my testicles confiscated.
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post #11531 of 11546 Old 11-17-2016, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post
I have a bunch of their panels and want to add some bass traps and diffusion. The cost added up to crazy amounts rather quickly.
What acoustical problem are you trying to fix?

Sanjay
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post #11532 of 11546 Old 11-17-2016, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
What acoustical problem are you trying to fix?
Currently my room only has a few absorption panels. I have no corner bass traps or any diffusion of any kind. The sound in my room is good, WITH Audyssey XT32 engaged. With XT32 disengaged, the sound is drastically different. This makes me think the room correction software had to go crazy with the EQ to flatten out the in room response. I want to try to flatten out the response a bit through room treatments so the room correction doesn't have to drastically adjust the EQ to flatten things out.
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post #11533 of 11546 Old 11-17-2016, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post
I want to try to flatten out the response a bit through room treatments so the room correction doesn't have to drastically adjust the EQ to flatten things out.
Always a good idea. But treatments aren't going to be much help in the subwoofer range, where you have the largest peaks & dips, especially compared to placement (subwoofers and seating). The other benefit of placement is that it is free (doesn't cost anything to move a sub).

So, first choice to smoothen (not necessarily flatten) the response should be placement. What placement alone can't fix, try to address with treatments. What placement & treatments can't fix, finish off with EQ.

Do you have any measurements showing where the peaks & dips are?

Sanjay
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post #11534 of 11546 Old 11-17-2016, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Always a good idea. But treatments aren't going to be much help in the subwoofer range, where you have the largest peaks & dips, especially compared to placement (subwoofers and seating). The other benefit of placement is that it is free (doesn't cost anything to move a sub).

So, first choice to smoothen (not necessarily flatten) the response should be placement. What placement alone can't fix, try to address with treatments. What placement & treatments can't fix, finish off with EQ.

Do you have any measurements showing where the peaks & dips are?
I am gonna try to experiment with sub placement, I'm currently waiting for a pair of speaker stands for my Seaton Cat 12C's, right now they are on my subs (2 Seaton SubM HP's).

No measurements yet, I'm about to order a miniDSP 2X4 HD with the UMIK1. Once the mic comes, I can take some measurements with REW.
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post #11535 of 11546 Old 11-17-2016, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post
Hi dnoonie
Thanks for the reply

I use a 7.1.4 setup (4 wall mounted height speakers for Atmos) in a dedicated room.

I have a total of 38 panels.
Some are DIY, some GIK and 3 are are RPG QRD7's in a rear wall array
All available corners have floor to ceiling GIK Tri-traps.

Although I have 6 ceiling mounted GIK 242 above the MLP I dont think they are catching all of the main speaker reflections plus there is still a lot of bare drywall on the 20' x 17'6"ceiling
38 panels? ! I thought I had a lot lol!

I have 9.2 system with 20 panels, floor to ceiling tritraps and qrd and monster traps on rear wall. Love GIK!

I am actually adding 2nd row of seating so will get 7 more panels but am replacing all panels with different color and scatter plates in the panels. Have decided to go with 244 on ceiling and leave 242 on side walls.
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post #11536 of 11546 Old 11-18-2016, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by robc1976 View Post
38 panels? ! I thought I had a lot lol!

I have 9.2 system with 20 panels, floor to ceiling tritraps and qrd and monster traps on rear wall. Love GIK!

I am actually adding 2nd row of seating so will get 7 more panels but am replacing all panels with different color and scatter plates in the panels. Have decided to go with 244 on ceiling and leave 242 on side walls.
Thinking about it I should have been more specific as its 30 panels and Floor to ceiling tri-traps (8 x 4')

If doing it again or adding more I would also do what you are suggesting and go for scatter plates and 244's on the ceiling
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post #11537 of 11546 Old 11-18-2016, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post
Thinking about it I should have been more specific as its 30 panels and Floor to ceiling tri-traps (8 x 4')

If doing it again or adding more I would also do what you are suggesting and go for scatter plates and 244's on the ceiling
I bet your room is awesome
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post #11538 of 11546 Old 11-18-2016, 11:16 AM
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I bet your room is awesome
As I imagine your would be too.
I'm very happy that I went for room treatments,the cost does mount up but no regrets.
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post #11539 of 11546 Old 11-18-2016, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post
As I imagine your would be too.
I'm very happy that I went for room treatments,the cost does mount up but no regrets.
it does as well, I think the worst part of treatments is pinpointing reflection points lol! That and hanging panels on the ceiling lol
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post #11540 of 11546 Old 11-23-2016, 04:20 PM
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Now would be a good time to order from http://www.acoustimac.com/.

Things to consider before ordering:
  • No diffusion (no scatter plates or combo diffusion products)
  • If you plan on getting products from another company get a fabric that matches, most folks have Guilford of Maine fabric.
  • Their room kits are a good deal but have a lot of 2" panels, they're great for getting started but I've ended up swapping 2" for 4" panels in places as well as diffusion for 2".
  • Consider how what you order might get used or re-purposed.

Cheers,
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post #11541 of 11546 Old 11-23-2016, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnoonie View Post
Now would be a good time to order from http://www.acoustimac.com/.

Things to consider before ordering:
  • No diffusion (no scatter plates or combo diffusion products)
  • If you plan on getting products from another company get a fabric that matches, most folks have Guilford of Maine fabric.
  • Their room kits are a good deal but have a lot of 2" panels, they're great for getting started but I've ended up swapping 2" for 4" panels in places as well as diffusion for 2".
  • Consider how what you order might get used or re-purposed.

Cheers,
totally 100% true.

Also, some companies advertise a 3" panel but have a 1.5" air gap on back so it is truly a,1.5" panel.
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post #11542 of 11546 Old 11-23-2016, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by robc1976 View Post
totally 100% true.

Also, some companies advertise a 3" panel but have a 1.5" air gap on back so it is truly a,1.5" panel.
I've been very pleased with Acoustimac panels and customer service, no complaints there.

Cheers,

Last edited by dnoonie; 11-24-2016 at 01:13 AM.
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post #11543 of 11546 Old 11-30-2016, 10:31 PM
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A couple days ago I raised the diffusion beside my front speakers 14 inches, the grey covered item is the diffusion. It made a remarkable difference, the front and rear speakers are much more blended, there used to be a bit of a hole about half way between the front main and the MLP, that space is much more blended with the rear surrounds now. I've attached a pic. I was very surprised at what a minor placement change could make to the sound. My front stereo sound stage is still pretty much the same.

I also attached a pic of the rear diffusion, it's stained and finished now. The HT room is still not done, more finishing touches to do.

Cheers,
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post #11544 of 11546 Old 11-30-2016, 10:44 PM
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Awhile back some asked me about why to use a tall made of metal mirror. I didn't illustrate it at the time so here's some pics.

The bottom line is that they make checking reflection points by yourself a breeze, they cost less that $20, they're light weight, they don't break.

Cheers,
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post #11545 of 11546 Old 12-01-2016, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnoonie View Post
A couple days ago I raised the diffusion beside my front speakers 14 inches, the grey covered item is the diffusion. It made a remarkable difference, the front and rear speakers are much more blended, there used to be a bit of a hole about half way between the front main and the MLP, that space is much more blended with the rear surrounds now. I've attached a pic. I was very surprised at what a minor placement change could make to the sound. My front stereo sound stage is still pretty much the same.

I also attached a pic of the rear diffusion, it's stained and finished now. The HT room is still not done, more finishing touches to do.

Cheers,
Nice treatments liking the rear diffusers look very nice
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post #11546 of 11546 Unread Today, 12:51 PM
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Interesting video showing the effects of adding various treatments..


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