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Old 03-24-2017, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JMAX2016 View Post
Harrisu,
So I've really been playing around with acoustic treatment over the past two months, moving them, stacking them (for lower freq absorption), and a loooot of listening. I have a 7.2.4 setup, with a 120" AT screen. Here's what I've learned, and maybe this will help in some kind of way.

1. Only absorb the whole front wall if you have an AT screen. Otherwise, I don't like the sound. I use 1" lin, plastic membrane, 1" lin (Thanks BIG!). I love the sound of this, because less SBIR (speaker boundary effect), great speaker localization, and great bass trapping.

2. Make sure both side walls have equal amount of absorption, and at the same height and distance. In other words, symmetrical. Otherwise, I can hear the difference. My side walls are covered about 40%.

3. I like the back wall about 50% covered with absorption. I hear this difference in the dialogue.

4. I use 3" rock wool at first reflection points, and 2" almost everywhere else.

5. Ceiling clouds, I have not tried, but I want to try the at the first reflection point on ceiling.

6. With the amount of absorption I just mentioned, the amount of power you need to reach the same SPL is greater. Meaning that if you'd regularly play movies at 60% of the receiver/amp capability, you'll need to run it at 75%. But that sound will be way more clean and linear.

7. I have not used REW yet. I have the app, but no mic. I would love to measure my room. Decay times, etc. But to my ears, this is the best my room has sounded.

What do you guys think?
What size is your room?

My HT build: Tower Cinema - 9.1.6 in a 12'x12' room

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Old 03-24-2017, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
What size is your room?
My room is 20x12x8.
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Old 03-24-2017, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMAX2016 View Post
Harrisu,
So I've really been playing around with acoustic treatment over the past two months, moving them, stacking them (for lower freq absorption), and a loooot of listening. I have a 7.2.4 setup, with a 120" AT screen. Here's what I've learned, and maybe this will help in some kind of way.

1. Only absorb the whole front wall if you have an AT screen. Otherwise, I don't like the sound. I use 1" lin, plastic membrane, 1" lin (Thanks BIG!). I love the sound of this, because less SBIR (speaker boundary effect), great speaker localization, and great bass trapping.

2. Make sure both side walls have equal amount of absorption, and at the same height and distance. In other words, symmetrical. Otherwise, I can hear the difference. My side walls are covered about 40%.

3. I like the back wall about 50% covered with absorption. I hear this difference in the dialogue.

4. I use 3" rock wool at first reflection points, and 2" almost everywhere else.

5. Ceiling clouds, I have not tried, but I want to try the at the first reflection point on ceiling.

6. With the amount of absorption I just mentioned, the amount of power you need to reach the same SPL is greater. Meaning that if you'd regularly play movies at 60% of the receiver/amp capability, you'll need to run it at 75%. But that sound will be way more clean and linear.

7. I have not used REW yet. I have the app, but no mic. I would love to measure my room. Decay times, etc. But to my ears, this is the best my room has sounded.

What do you guys think?
Thanks for sharing. My turn now
1 - Managing base decay: I have had all this done that you are doing before. I have had Lin but I just went with 1". I don't think it really matters if you have 1" then plastic and then 1". Using just 1" will absorb High frequencies just fine. I don't think making it 2" with plastic will help will Low/Mid frequencies. I use REW. In fact, I used it by placing each panel and then took reading to see what it does and then added more or removed based on what I saw. So, if you want to make sure the room decays withing 300ms, you take reading and start observing. When I took all the panels out, the dacay was going beyond 450ms. Then I added 8" 703 on front wall corneres and also in one back wall corner. Then took reading and then installed the ceiling panels (3 4" 703) and 1 4" 703 on each side side wall on 2nd reflection. Took reading and all the mid-bass (150 onward) was well within 300ms. Now if you have anything under 150 going beyond 300-400ms, you'd have to add a lot more to tame them down. In my case, I didn't. For some reason, my room does resonate at 60Hz but I think its my mic (will post question on REW thread). Other than that, my whole waterfall graph (that shows decay) is within 300 ms. So that takes care of bass.

2 : Room Reflection. So after installing bass traps (or Mid-bass traps I should call), I moved my target to room reflection. At this point, I already have 1" lin on front wall and 50% back wall covered with 2" 703 and corner bass traps and panels on top and side wall. Checked the Impulse response. From top of my head, it should be below -20. When I checked, I hardly had any spike going above -20. Now, there has been discussion where some say to have Lin on front wall and some say that you are damping the room too much if your front wall is completely covered. So, it was time to find out. I took the whole 1" Lin off. Then put 1 2" 703 behind C starting from its tweeter height going up. Then took reading and guess what !!! I didn't see any noticeable change in reflection. So Lin really wasn't taming that much for me for early reflection and I think it was damping my room.

Now all that is purely based on what REW is showing me. Listening is obviously the final answer to all the changes which I'll be doing over the weekend. As of now, I have 3 corners covered with 8" 703 with front ones from top to bottom and back only up to ear level (since I don't want it to absorb L/R reflection). Then I have only 1 2" 703 panel on each side wall parallel to each other and 3 4" panels on ceiling (1 for L, 1 for R and 1 for C). Then I have 1 4" 703 behind C on front wall starting from tweeter to all the way up. All this has gotten the low frequency under control within 300ms and also the reflection.

BTW, I do have AT screen but its not weave. Its a Perf screen with 1.3 gain (amazing . With screen on, I do loose 8db on high frequency which Dirac (room correction system) fixes for me. I guess the point I'm driving to is that Lin on front wall might not be necessary and its definitely not for helping out with mid bass. With a setup above 5.1, we do have speakers firing towards the front wall and it might help absorb them. But I don't want to just put it there and go with it. Instead, I want to first listen to my room and if I find that its too reflective, only then I'll add more absorption. This will ensure that I'm not over absorbing. My speakers are 106dB sensitive so I can easily over damp my room and crank up the volume and they won't give up on me.

Last edited by harrisu; 03-24-2017 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 03-24-2017, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Thanks for sharing. My turn now
1 - Managing base decay: I have had all this done that you are doing before. I have had Lin but I just went with 1". I don't think it really matters if you have 1" then plastic and then 1". Using just 1" will absorb High frequencies just fine. I don't think making it 2" with plastic will help will Low/Mid frequencies. I use REW. In fact, I used it by placing each panel and then took reading to see what it does and then added more or removed based on what I saw. So, if you want to make sure the room decays withing 300ms, you take reading and start observing. When I took all the panels out, the dacay was going beyond 450ms. Then I added 8" 703 on front wall corneres and also in one back wall corner. Then took reading and then installed the ceiling panels (3 4" 703) and 1 4" 703 on each side side wall on 2nd reflection. Took reading and all the mid-bass (150 onward) was well within 300ms. Now if you have anything under 150 going beyond 300-400ms, you'd have to add a lot more to tame them down. In my case, I didn't. For some reason, my room does resonate at 60Hz but I think its my mic (will post question on REW thread). Other than that, my whole waterfall graph (that shows decay) is within 300 ms. So that takes care of bass.

2 : Room Reflection. So after installing bass traps (or Mid-bass traps I should call), I moved my target to room reflection. At this point, I already have 1" lin on front wall and 50% back wall covered with 2" 703 and corner bass traps and panels on top and side wall. Checked the Impulse response. From top of my head, it should be below -20. When I checked, I hardly had any spike going above -20. Now, there has been discussion where some say to have Lin on front wall and some say that you are damping the room too much if your front wall is completely covered. So, it was time to find out. I took the whole 1" Lin off. Then put 1 2" 703 behind C starting from its tweeter height going up. Then took reading and guess what !!! I didn't see any noticeable change in reflection. So Lin really wasn't taming that much for me for early reflection and I think it was damping my room.

Now all that is purely based on what REW is showing me. Listening is obviously the final answer to all the changes which I'll be doing over the weekend. As of now, I have 3 corners covered with 8" 703 with front ones from top to bottom and back only up to ear level (since I don't want it to absorb L/R reflection). Then I have only 1 2" 703 panel on each side wall parallel to each other and 3 4" panels on ceiling (1 for L, 1 for R and 1 for C). Then I have 1 4" 703 behind C on front wall starting from tweeter to all the way up. All this has gotten the low frequency under control within 300ms and also the reflection.

BTW, I do have AT screen but its not weave. Its a Perf screen with 1.3 gain (amazing . With screen on, I do loose 8db on high frequency which Dirac (room correction system) fixes for me. I guess the point I'm driving to is that Lin on front wall might not be necessary and its definitely not for helping out with mid bass. With a setup above 5.1, we do have speakers firing towards the front wall and it might help absorb them. But I don't want to just put it there and go with it. Instead, I want to first listen to my room and if I find that its too reflective, only then I'll add more absorption. This will ensure that I'm not over absorbing. My speakers are 106dB sensitive so I can easily over damp my room and crank up the volume and they won't give up on me.
Interesting... Especially the part where you said it measured the same taking the Lin out... Let us know how the listening goes!
What are you using for a mic for REW? And don't you need a sound board to hook the mic and on the other end your computer into?

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Old 03-24-2017, 09:25 PM
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Question

I just inherited 10 panels of Armstrong Ceilings Shasta White Textured 15/16-in Drop Acoustic Panel Ceiling Tiles (Common: 48-in x 24-in)

... ideas on useful or interesting things to do with them?

I have 2" OC703 I'm starting to make wall (maybe ceiling) panels with. Currently two 2" panels (2.5" frames) hang on side-wall first reflection (just in front of the row of seating) - on diagram, black with red border

I'm also thinking I'll put in a ceiling cloud : on diagram, has yellow border

Most of the ceiling is 9' and all speakers are hug at about 7.5' ... Atmos ceiling speakers (A) are at 9'
There is very little space behind the main speakers behind the AT screen - thought maybe using the Armstrong panels there - will they make a difference being only 1" thick?

interested in your thoughts on where treatments should go and what to do with the 1" Armstrong panels.

thx!

thx
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Old 03-25-2017, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
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What are you using for a mic for REW? And don't you need a sound board to hook the mic and on the other end your computer into?
Most people use the MiniDSP UMIK-1 microphone that only requires a spare USB port on the computer. They are calibrated at factory so fairly accurate once you load in the calibration file in REW.

My HT build: Tower Cinema - 9.1.6 in a 12'x12' room

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Old 03-25-2017, 06:31 AM
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Hi: I'd like to get some feedback concerning corner traps. I recently soundproofed my entire room. This involved tearing out the drop ceiling and installing double drywall, GG, safnsound, isolation clips and hat channel. However, this increased my ceiling height, so the ceiling is now about a foot taller than previously. My existing GIK corner bass traps are now too short to cover the increase in height. Is it worth investing in 4 one foot corner traps to correct this, or is it not worth addressing in your opinion?


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Old 03-25-2017, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by healthnut View Post
Hi: I'd like to get some feedback concerning corner traps. I recently soundproofed my entire room. This involved tearing out the drop ceiling and installing double drywall, GG, safnsound, isolation clips and hat channel. However, this increased my ceiling height, so the ceiling is now about a foot taller than previously. My existing GIK corner bass traps are now too short to cover the increase in height. Is it worth investing in 4 one foot corner traps to correct this, or is it not worth addressing in your opinion?


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they do the most good where all three corners meet. you could have a gap in the middle between the two you have stacked.
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Old 03-25-2017, 08:38 AM
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they do the most good where all three corners meet. you could have a gap in the middle between the two you have stacked.


Thanks, but I don't think I understand the second part of your comment. Do you mean if I added a small one, there would be a gap between them and it would be better to order new ones at the correct height?


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Old 03-25-2017, 09:12 AM
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Thanks, but I don't think I understand the second part of your comment. Do you mean if I added a small one, there would be a gap between them and it would be better to order new ones at the correct height?


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We assume that you currently have two corner traps stacked on top of each other, if you lift the top one so it is against the ceiling you will get the most benefit without adding more traps.

My HT build: Tower Cinema - 9.1.6 in a 12'x12' room

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Old 03-25-2017, 11:20 AM
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We assume that you currently have two corner traps stacked on top of each other, if you lift the top one so it is against the ceiling you will get the most benefit without adding more traps.


Thanks for the reply. I have one trap on each corner, but they're all too short to reach the ceiling, by about a foot. Looks like I need to add smaller ones to reach into the ceiling.


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Old 03-25-2017, 11:28 AM
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Thanks for the reply. I have one trap on each corner, but they're all too short to reach the ceiling, by about a foot. Looks like I need to add smaller ones to reach into the ceiling.


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Cool, I didn't know the GIK corner traps were available in 8ft tall units, I thought they were around 4ft each.

My HT build: Tower Cinema - 9.1.6 in a 12'x12' room

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Old 03-25-2017, 12:08 PM
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Cool, I didn't know the GIK corner traps were available in 8ft tall units, I thought they were around 4ft each.
GIK bass traps are stackable and support 50 lbs weight. Didn't know they had 8 foot version, always known them to have 4 feet pieces. Many bass traps to choose from including the alpha series if you want traps with some diffusion. I don't have corner traps, just the 244 bass traps behind my rear wall and they do improve decay times in my room.

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Old 03-25-2017, 02:46 PM
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I have 2 4 footers bass traps stacked in each rear corner. Front wall I have a 4 foot and custom sized bass trap sitting on my sub. They did a great job helping to even out the bass and lower the decay time.
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Old Yesterday, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
Most people use the MiniDSP UMIK-1 microphone that only requires a spare USB port on the computer. They are calibrated at factory so fairly accurate once you load in the calibration file in REW.
Thanks Mashie. I'm going to look into getting one! Looks like Parts Express has it for $85. Their website has it for $75. I'm not sure if that includes shipping too or not.

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Old Yesterday, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Livin View Post
I just inherited 10 panels of Armstrong Ceilings Shasta White Textured 15/16-in Drop Acoustic Panel Ceiling Tiles (Common: 48-in x 24-in)

... ideas on useful or interesting things to do with them?

I have 2" OC703 I'm starting to make wall (maybe ceiling) panels with. Currently two 2" panels (2.5" frames) hang on side-wall first reflection (just in front of the row of seating) - on diagram, black with red border

I'm also thinking I'll put in a ceiling cloud : on diagram, has yellow border

Most of the ceiling is 9' and all speakers are hug at about 7.5' ... Atmos ceiling speakers (A) are at 9'
There is very little space behind the main speakers behind the AT screen - thought maybe using the Armstrong panels there - will they make a difference being only 1" thick?

interested in your thoughts on where treatments should go and what to do with the 1" Armstrong panels.

thx!

thx
No help?

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Old Yesterday, 11:16 PM
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Using Owens Corning 703 2" panels, I'm putting 4" thick panels in 1X6 pine frames behind Open Baffle Rythmik subs and 2" panels in 1X4 pine frames behind Maggie 3.6 speakers. I'm covering the frames and panels with Magnepan speaker cloth to match the speakers. I would like to seal the fiberglass surfaces so it does not migrate into the room. I'm thinking of mixing some powdered wall paper glue and brushing that on the fiberglass. I don't think it would turn the panels into reflective surfaces. Another possible solution would be to spray a light coat of 3M spray adhesive on all surfaces.
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Old Today, 08:02 PM
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My 24 OC703 panels arrived. Took them down to the theater and opened them up. When I got back from being out of town, this is how I found them on the porch.



Nobody warned me that the panels would smell like decaying salmon on the side of the road once they packages were opened up. A quick google search informed me this was common and the smell should go away in a couple days to a couple of weeks. I can still smell a hint of it on the panels, but I think it is mostly aired out now.

I have the bulk of the framing done behind the speakers to insert 9 of the panels. I used standard 2X4's with 2X2's placed above and below them to hold the panels 1.5" off the back wall for an air gap. They fit perfectly flush and I'll be placing a 100% black polyester fabric over the panels after they are installed.

[IMG][/IMG]

If there are any comments or suggestions on the direction I'm headed with this, it would be greatly appreciated.
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