Acoustical Treatments Master Thread - Page 398 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11911 of 11991 Old 07-08-2017, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augmont View Post
I would like to get started on my materials list for DIY room treatments for a new HT room that is currently in the beginning stages of the build. Lots of good stuff on this thread but not sure what i need and materials to go with it.

My plan is to line the front wall behind the false wall with _________ (help me fill in the blank) and build a false wall to hide the speakers. The false wall will be covered AT fabric of course. The room is square so I know I will need some bass traps in the corners and I know I will need to treat the first reflection point. on the back wall, how do you determine location and size of treatment. Same question for the ceiling.

I still haven't determined if I plan to cover in fabric the first 6ft of the room with velvet for the screen reflection.

I like building things so it's why I prefer to go the DIY route.....plus to lower my cost and customize to my desire.

Anyhow, I appreciate the opinions for all you experts cause I know my limitations and smart enough to ask more knowledge people than me. Help me learn in the process.
The area behind your screen can use some OC703 board, wrapped in cheap burlap just to contain the dust, or what ever material fabric is cheap.

Prioritize all your flat surfaces and corners, each will require the right treatment to achieve the result you are looking for.

Example, i have two flat surface area's that have a slap echo/flutter echo. Its not i high priority, like a first reflecton point, its well out of the way, so some wood diffusers will break up the parallel surfaces and reduce any colour produced by erant sounds.

You will hear opinions also that first reflection absorbers create a blackhole effect that is very unatural. 100% true.......if you fail to complete proper treatment of the rest of the room. If you continue to address all these surfaces that ADD reflections, and their own signature sound, you have removed the room and now hear the music/movies.

But, dont be a follower, dont listen to me or anyone else and just DO. Get involved, add and subtract as you see fit, listen listen and listen some more. The worst advice is to do it cause i said so.

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post #11912 of 11991 Old 07-08-2017, 08:45 PM
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So I got a chance yesterday to really crank the system and test out these panels. Played scenes from Need for Speed, Oblivion, MMFR, World War Z, Pulse, Life, Incredible Hulk and couple others.
It sounds awesome but.. I think I may have over treated the left wall. Maybe I'm just not used to it without all the reflections but it just seemed a little off to me.
I may try removing the circled panel which was for the secondary reflection of front right and center and see if it sounds a little better.
I also may try a smaller panel there.
Guess we'll see!

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post #11913 of 11991 Old 07-08-2017, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augmont View Post
The room is square so I know I will need some bass traps in the corners
Maybe not. But that can be decided later, after some measurements are done in the actual space.

I'd suggest planning for 4 subwoofers, in the 4 corners if possible, but not required. Just getting a second pair in the rear will work wonders for taming bass issues. Being able to slide the row of seats fore/aft a bit will also allow some fine tuning (dodging of the room modes). No need to install 4 subs on day 1, but after you start using the room, you can decide on that step. It will be easier if you have power and audio lines run already.

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post #11914 of 11991 Old 07-09-2017, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subacabra View Post
So I got a chance yesterday to really crank the system and test out these panels. Played scenes from Need for Speed, Oblivion, MMFR, World War Z, Pulse, Life, Incredible Hulk and couple others.
It sounds awesome but.. I think I may have over treated the left wall. Maybe I'm just not used to it without all the reflections but it just seemed a little off to me.
I may try removing the circled panel which was for the secondary reflection of front right and center and see if it sounds a little better.
I also may try a smaller panel there.
Guess we'll see!

Only an ETC graph could show you if the panels are absorbing the whole reflection, broadband absorbers are what you are looking for, two inch thick absorbers are good for the highs, but to absorb lower frequecies of the reflection it needs to be thicker.

What do you measure with ? The object is to reduce your reflections below 10ms..... It does take some time to get use to RFZ's
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Last edited by kgveteran; 07-09-2017 at 05:23 AM.
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post #11915 of 11991 Old 07-09-2017, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Maybe not. But that can be decided later, after some measurements are done in the actual space.

I'd suggest planning for 4 subwoofers, in the 4 corners if possible, but not required. Just getting a second pair in the rear will work wonders for taming bass issues. Being able to slide the row of seats fore/aft a bit will also allow some fine tuning (dodging of the room modes). No need to install 4 subs on day 1, but after you start using the room, you can decide on that step. It will be easier if you have power and audio lines run already.

I run (4) 15" subs, i use to just spread them across the front of my room below the screen. Evenly spaced across the 13' width of the room. I was rearanging my room and slid the two in the center to either side, so two to the left and two to the right. Then pulled them away from the front wall a bit, and my nulls were gone !!!!!! I had two subs in the middle of the room which was disasterous, now with two to one side, two to the left, i no longer use my MiniDSP to EQ!!!!!

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post #11916 of 11991 Old 07-10-2017, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
The area behind your screen can use some OC703 board, wrapped in cheap burlap just to contain the dust, or what ever material fabric is cheap.

Prioritize all your flat surfaces and corners, each will require the right treatment to achieve the result you are looking for.

Example, i have two flat surface area's that have a slap echo/flutter echo. Its not i high priority, like a first reflecton point, its well out of the way, so some wood diffusers will break up the parallel surfaces and reduce any colour produced by erant sounds.

You will hear opinions also that first reflection absorbers create a blackhole effect that is very unatural. 100% true.......if you fail to complete proper treatment of the rest of the room. If you continue to address all these surfaces that ADD reflections, and their own signature sound, you have removed the room and now hear the music/movies.

But, dont be a follower, dont listen to me or anyone else and just DO. Get involved, add and subtract as you see fit, listen listen and listen some more. The worst advice is to do it cause i said so.
Thanks.....
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post #11917 of 11991 Old 07-10-2017, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Maybe not. But that can be decided later, after some measurements are done in the actual space.

I'd suggest planning for 4 subwoofers, in the 4 corners if possible, but not required. Just getting a second pair in the rear will work wonders for taming bass issues. Being able to slide the row of seats fore/aft a bit will also allow some fine tuning (dodging of the room modes). No need to install 4 subs on day 1, but after you start using the room, you can decide on that step. It will be easier if you have power and audio lines run already.
I plan to start with 2 15" subs up front as a starting point, 5 ft from each corner. Preference is to keep the room at 2 subs. I may consider one towards the back. I will plan and cable the corners however so I don't have fish wire later.
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post #11918 of 11991 Old 07-11-2017, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augmont View Post
I plan to start with 2 15" subs up front as a starting point, 5 ft from each corner. Preference is to keep the room at 2 subs. I may consider one towards the back. I will plan and cable the corners however so I don't have fish wire later.
What do you use to measure with, i've been using OmniMic for a few years now, pretty handy tool.

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post #11919 of 11991 Old 07-11-2017, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
What do you use to measure with, i've been using OmniMic for a few years now, pretty handy tool.
I have both OmniMic and REW with UMIK-1. Sadly, the REW was too complicated for my use and learning curve. I have played with OmniMic years ago but need refresher. I bought these toys years ago in anticipation for a HT room which will be a reality in the next few months. YEA FOR ME!!!!!!
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post #11920 of 11991 Old 07-13-2017, 12:37 PM
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Just spent $1,300 today on treatments, seems insane, hope its worth it...
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post #11921 of 11991 Old 07-13-2017, 06:30 PM
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I ordered some dent and ding 2' x 4' by 4" bass traps from Acoustimac. I picked them up yesterday and the boxes seemed particularly heavy...so I weighed another same sized bass trap I got from them a few years back, non dent and ding...12 lbs, and the most recent is 21 lbs. I would guess the most recent must be filled with 8lb Rorxul. So I weighted another set of dent and ding bass traps I got from them last year at 17.5 lbs, I guessing it must be filled with 6 lb Rorxul. I'll be putting these in the back of the room which has the most bass build up right now. Some day I might get 2 more subs for the rear which should help the room response but for now this is great.

Cheers,

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post #11922 of 11991 Old 07-14-2017, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMatrix View Post
Just spent $1,300 today on treatments, seems insane, hope its worth it...
DIY is a huge savings for the future, most all acoustic treatments can be duplicated ur self if you wanted to. Good luck

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post #11923 of 11991 Old 07-14-2017, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augmont View Post
I have both OmniMic and REW with UMIK-1. Sadly, the REW was too complicated for my use and learning curve. I have played with OmniMic years ago but need refresher. I bought these toys years ago in anticipation for a HT room which will be a reality in the next few months. YEA FOR ME!!!!!!
Yup REW is way over my head too, OmniMic works perfect for what i need.

I've used the ETC feature too, pretty comprehensive

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post #11924 of 11991 Old 07-14-2017, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post


DIY is a huge savings for the future, most all acoustic treatments can be duplicated ur self if you wanted to. Good luck
Thanks, I'll take that into consideration next time. The costs for the panels added up quicker than I thought and I just went for it. I dont think I even want to know how much it would have been if I had done it myself.
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post #11925 of 11991 Old 07-14-2017, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMatrix View Post
Thanks, I'll take that into consideration next time. The costs for the panels added up quicker than I thought and I just went for it. I dont think I even want to know how much it would have been if I had done it myself.
I understand completely. If at a later date you need a hand doing some panels send out a PM
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post #11926 of 11991 Old 07-17-2017, 11:54 PM
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Sorry for catching up a week late, but:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
I run (4) 15" subs, i use to just spread them across the front of my room below the screen. Evenly spaced across the 13' width of the room. I was rearanging my room and slid the two in the center to either side, so two to the left and two to the right. Then pulled them away from the front wall a bit, and my nulls were gone !!!!!! I had two subs in the middle of the room which was disasterous [sic], now with two to one side, two to the left, i no longer use my MiniDSP to EQ!!!!!
By this, I have to assume you really meant in the middle of the front wall. Correct? Unless you had been sitting on them.
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post #11927 of 11991 Old 07-19-2017, 08:12 PM
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Sorry for catching up a week late, but:



By this, I have to assume you really meant in the middle of the front wall. Correct? Unless you had been sitting on them.
Correct, the two 15's were front center, two were against the side walls. I had read that bad things happen out in the middle of the room.... It got me thinking to measure them to the sides. It was amazing what that did to the response. My room is a rectangle, very simple setup, now even better, no EQ. When i do a final tweak of the bottom end i may add a little boost, but only if it really needs it. audyssey adds a nice curve with dynamic eq, probably no eq needed.

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post #11928 of 11991 Old 07-24-2017, 04:32 PM
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Corner Bass Trap Build - Add FSK paper for high freq reflection?

My first post in this thread. Have a very specific question about bass traps.

I've taken care of the 1st, 2nd reflection points in my HT room with knauf ecose panels and now trying to correct the bass.
Built frames for corner mounted bass traps and plan to fill them up with Roxul Safe and Sound.

To avoid too much high frequency absorption, thinking of adding FSK tape to front facing side of the bass traps.

Wondering if I should I cover completely with FSK or only apply selectively in some pattern to get the best results?

Pics below

Any input appreciated!
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Last edited by rawhit; 07-25-2017 at 06:46 PM.
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post #11929 of 11991 Old 07-25-2017, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rawhit View Post
My first post in this thread. Have a very specific question about bass traps.

I've taken care of the 1st, 2nd reflection points in my HT room with knauf ecose panels and now trying to correct the bass.
Built frames for corner mounted bass traps and plan to fill them up with Roxul Safe and Sound.

To avoid too much high frequency absorption, thinking of adding FSK tape to front facing side of the bass traps.

Wondering if I should I cover completely with FSK or only apply selectively in some pattern to get the best results?

Pics below










Any input appreciated!


Its cheap enough to cover them with a craft paper, see how that sounds, mite liven things up a bit.....

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post #11930 of 11991 Old 07-28-2017, 01:47 PM
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I'm starting a basement remodel. The TV area isn't really a dedicated theater room, but I want to do whatever I can to increase sound quality as I build the walls because I'm not sure I will be able to hang acoustic panels on them after they are built (WAF). The TV area is 14' (D) x 12' (W) x 8' (H), but it's part of a large, open floor plan. The TV area is in the corner of the basement with a front wall and a left wall (no rear or right walls). What are your recommendations? Thanks in advance!
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post #11931 of 11991 Old 07-28-2017, 08:18 PM
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The TV area is in the corner of the basement with a front wall and a left wall (no rear or right walls). What are your recommendations? Thanks in advance!
I'd say the most important thing is going to be symmetry. I'd seriously consider putting the display in the corner and setting up the seats on the diagonal. That's somewhat heretical, but to me the biggest things you can do for surround sound are: 1) put the speakers in the right place places around the seats 2) everything else...


The wall on one side and not the other throw everything off, and I bet your wife would like it a lot more.
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post #11932 of 11991 Old 07-28-2017, 09:20 PM
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Start with the ceiling, is it relecting the LCR, a mirror and a helping hand can locate that spot
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post #11933 of 11991 Old 08-02-2017, 09:57 AM
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Help! Vaulted ceiling Atmos Theater Acoustics

Hi Everyone,

I am buying a new house with the following room and will be using it as an Atmos theater (see picture). What acoustical issue will I most likely have to deal with in a room like this.

As A side note.

I plan on using a projector and will place a screen over the shuttered windows. As for Atmos speakers I have not figured that one out. In wall most likely will not work due to the Angle. I would like to match my KEFQ900 speakers with Atmos speaker, but it seems unlikely as I am not sure if I want to to mount the bulky bookshelf speakers to the ceiling. I do not know of any other KEF option that would work with a vaulted ceiling.
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post #11934 of 11991 Old 08-05-2017, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
Its cheap enough to cover them with a craft paper, see how that sounds, mite liven things up a bit.....
Finished with the bass trap (used the FSK paper cover too).
Will take some REW measurements to see if it reduced some bass ringing.
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post #11935 of 11991 Old 08-14-2017, 04:15 PM
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Moving into a house with hard wood flooring. Already have a 7x10 shag rug to use, but should I get a thick pad to go underneath it?

https://www.amazon.com/100-Felt-Rug-.../dp/B00H4HM3PM

Is what I am looking at. Would love to spend a lot less if possible.
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post #11936 of 11991 Old 08-14-2017, 05:30 PM
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The pad can't hurt go for it.
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If a movie or concert video or a TV show isn't on blu ray it darn well should be.
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post #11937 of 11991 Old 08-15-2017, 04:02 PM
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Hey guys, been working on removing reflections in my room. I found I have a reflection from my FL and FR speakers (Maybe center too) on the ceiling (tried left, right, floor, and behind first haha). I have panels in the room, but I dont think I want to hang a 4" wood frame panel on the ceiling. What are my options for trying to defeat this reflection? Would diffusion work for something like this? Or maybe 2 inches rockwool 60 wrapped in fabric? Edit: More info , the room is 18x13x8, seating is about 10ft back from the front speakers. I am running atmos with 4 ceiling speakers as well. Currently there is no treatment on the ceiling, floor is carpet, left and right walls have 4" panels (will be adding more) and the rear center of the room has 3 panels side by side going up the wall toward ceiling (angled ceiling there from roof line).

Reflection in question


Holding a panel above, in front of speaker

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post #11938 of 11991 Old 08-15-2017, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by grendelrt View Post
Hey guys, been working on removing reflections in my room. I found I have a reflection from my FL and FR speakers (Maybe center too) on the ceiling (tried left, right, floor, and behind first haha). I have panels in the room, but I dont think I want to hang a 4" wood frame panel on the ceiling. What are my options for trying to defeat this reflection? Would diffusion work for something like this? Or maybe 2 inches rockwool 60 wrapped in fabric? Edit: More info , the room is 18x13x8, seating is about 10ft back from the front speakers. I am running atmos with 4 ceiling speakers as well. Currently there is no treatment on the ceiling, floor is carpet, left and right walls have 4" panels (will be adding more) and the rear center of the room has 3 panels side by side going up the wall toward ceiling (angled ceiling there from roof line).
What is the complication hanging a panel from the ceiling? I have an older house and have sagging ceiling drywall (it was put in with nails not screws) I've fixed some areas with screws...but for ceiling absorbers I put hooks into the truss and hung off of those since I didn't feel comfortable hanging off the ceiling drywall itself. Just a guess/idea. I use 4 hooks for a 21lb 2'x4'x4" 8lb Rorxul panel, I've had an entire panel hanging from one hook while installing no problem, trusses can handle a lot of weight as can (to a relative extent for room treatmenst) hooks, eyes and nylon ties.

Cheers,

OPPO BDP-93, Pioneer Kuro Pro-150FD, Dynaudio 2x BM-12a Mk III Mains, 2x BM 6a Mk II surround, 2x BM 14s Subs, Allan and Heath MixWizard, room is 11'7"x 16'6"x 8" dedicated and treated.

Last edited by dnoonie; 08-15-2017 at 06:54 PM.
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post #11939 of 11991 Old 08-15-2017, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnoonie View Post
What is the complication hanging a panel from the ceiling? I have an older house and have sagging ceiling drywall (it was put in with nails not screws) I've fixed some areas with screws...but for ceiling absorbers I put hooks into the truss and hung off of those since I didn't feel comfortable hanging off the ceiling drywall itself. Just a guess/idea. I use 4 hooks for a 21lb 2'x4'x4" 8lb Rorxul panel, I've had an entire panel hanging from one hook while installing no problem, trusses can handle a lot of weight as can (to a relative extent for room treatmenst) hooks, eyes and nylon ties.

Cheers,
More of an aesthetic thing, I might be able to do a 2" panel or something, but I don't want anything really large hanging down if possible. With the ceiling speakers and projector could get complicated. Looking for other possibilities before I go down that road =) Didn't know if diffusion was one, I only have absorption right now and I know there is supposed to be a balance.

Last edited by grendelrt; 08-15-2017 at 08:15 PM.
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post #11940 of 11991 Old 08-15-2017, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grendelrt View Post
More of an aesthetic thing, I might be able to do a 2" panel or something, but I don't want anything really large hanging down if possible. With the ceiling speakers and projector could get complicated. Looking for other possibilities before I go down that road =) Didn't know if diffusion was one, I only have absorption right now and I know there is supposed to be a balance.
2" absorbers with 703/705/Roxul works pretty well, I've switched to 4" for my front ceiling first reflection points but the 2" seemed to do a good job too. I have Roxul 4lb in the front and a mix of 4lb and 8lb in the back. I have 2" on the front sides with a 1" gap (first and second reflection points), because of space considerations I'm not going with 4".

The rule of thumb for diffusion positioning is a foot of distance for every inch of thickness for the diffusion otherwise you get image smearing (at least that's been my experience, someone with more knowledge might be able to fill in) so if you have the distance from the ceiling 1st reflection point to your seating position diffusion might work for you. Diffusion would tend to be thicker than absorption so I'm not sure it would be better for you or not.

Cheers,

OPPO BDP-93, Pioneer Kuro Pro-150FD, Dynaudio 2x BM-12a Mk III Mains, 2x BM 6a Mk II surround, 2x BM 14s Subs, Allan and Heath MixWizard, room is 11'7"x 16'6"x 8" dedicated and treated.
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