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post #61 of 279 Old 09-27-2016, 06:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by chirpie View Post
Goddamn nerds. Gotta love 'em.



(And I'm borderline hyper metabolic for what it's worth. I run hot even in the winter. lol)
Knowing Tim and Shawn personally I think they could really geek out over a totally unnecessary topic and way over think it.

I'm a bit more practical. Turn on AC and its cool and comfortable it works and I'm good. .
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post #62 of 279 Old 09-27-2016, 07:09 AM
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A restaurant is challenging its diners to eat a 10,000 calorie chicken dinner - the equivalent of five days worth of food - in just 45 minutes.
The dish, named 'No Clucking Chance', includes eight chicken breasts, bacon, waffles and mounds of chips with the winner cashing in on £500.
Chefs at Huckleberry's restaurant in Darlington, County Durham, have opened up the challenge after the UK's number one competitive eater , Adam Moran, failed to conquer the gut-busting combo.
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post #63 of 279 Old 09-27-2016, 07:39 AM
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Looks like you might need a 5 Ton unit if your group all attempts that No Clucking Chance challenge :-)
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post #64 of 279 Old 09-27-2016, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
I'm a bit more practical. .
Says the guy with 40 recessed lights in his new garage and at least that number of speakers and subs in his current garage. Yeah, totally practical.

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post #65 of 279 Old 09-27-2016, 12:21 PM
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Y'all fightin over how many BTUs I produce and I'm thinkin "how much should the ventilation rate be increased if I have Mexican for dinner?"

Seriously folks, if we're gonna debate something it should be something consequential like avoiding your stench.

Tim
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post #66 of 279 Old 09-27-2016, 02:19 PM
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Yes, some ventilation required. Three kinds of beans is like a triple threat.

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post #67 of 279 Old 09-27-2016, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post


A restaurant is challenging its diners to eat a 10,000 calorie chicken dinner - the equivalent of five days worth of food - in just 45 minutes.
The dish, named 'No Clucking Chance', includes eight chicken breasts, bacon, waffles and mounds of chips with the winner cashing in on £500.
Chefs at Huckleberry's restaurant in Darlington, County Durham, have opened up the challenge after the UK's number one competitive eater , Adam Moran, failed to conquer the gut-busting combo.
I could probably do it, but I don't like pickles.

Regards,
John
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post #68 of 279 Old 09-27-2016, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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So we're still trying to get things worked out with the builder. Worse case scenario, the whole thing gets delayed a couple months and I get the exact same sized room under the garage with a different builder and different floor plan. Best case scenario we'll start before October is over. I'm patient.

In the meantime, here's what I'm looking at. (See attached)

Basement 1 shows the rough placement of the mechanicals for this floor model.

Basement 2 shows the measurements of the space under the garage.

Previous theater shows the size of my 19.5 x 14.5 x 7.75 theater placed inside. You can literally fit two them side by side and still have 4 feet left above. Yikes.

6' male placed for scale.
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post #69 of 279 Old 10-03-2016, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
You have them on-site and dump them into the room before the steel beams are placed and the corrugated metal is installed, basically entombing the TJIs. This approach would also buy you more time to figure out your plans, including Atmos speaker placement (as per what SierraMikeBravo is saying), since the TJIs are completely non-structural.
So I finally was able to get a second meeting with the builder today and mentioned the idea of entombing the TJI's. He was curious why I wouldn't just bolt wood to the I-Beam and hang shorter TJI's to it (I believe you also mentioned that idea in an earlier post.) I couldn't give a great answer off the top of my head, but I assume it's all about less structural sound transmission?

Anyway, thanks again everyone, I'm going to turtle for a few days and try to get a few details hammered out.

Last edited by chirpie; 10-04-2016 at 11:07 AM.
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post #70 of 279 Old 10-04-2016, 08:37 PM
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....assuming the steel beam is running in the long dimension, you do not need to run TJIs under the steel beam and lose that 12" of ceiling height. Your contractor can do what's called "packing out" the steel beam with wood inside the I-beam pocket on either side. Assuming a theater room width of 22' and with the steel beam being about 1' wide, you can use standard 2x10s cut to size (about 11' long) to span from the SIDE of the steel beam with standard joist hangers to the top of your 11' side walls. This preserves the extra 1' of height you would be losing in your proposed construction method. It also means you are committing yourself to a perimeter bulkhead to bring in and run your HVAC, high voltage, etc. around the room within the confines of your theater shell - which isn't a bad thing. As a point of note, your contractor should hang these 2x10s so they stick out below the steel beam by 1/2" so you can have a completely flat drywall ceiling.
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So I finally was able to get a second meeting with the builder today and mentioned the idea of entombing the TJI's. He was curious why I wouldn't just bolt wood to the I-Beam and hang shorter TJI's to it (I believe you also mentioned that idea in an earlier post.) I couldn't give a great answer off the top of my head, but I assume it's all about less structural sound transmission?
^^^This is what I mentioned before (and quoted that portion of my post above). If you run long TJIs parallel to the beam, you have a completely decoupled room. If you pack out the beam and run shorter TJIs perpendicular to the steel beam and are attaching to structure, you are not decoupled but the practical soundproofing impact is negligible since you are under a thick cement slab with unfinished non-living area above. Definitely easier to couple to the structure with the shorter TJIs. I'd consider clips and channel for the ceiling for decoupling, but wouldn't lose any sleep if not decoupled.
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post #71 of 279 Old 10-05-2016, 05:21 PM
 
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I wouldn't over think it.
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post #72 of 279 Old 11-04-2016, 03:53 PM
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I don't think that not mounting the TJI's directly to the I-beams is over thinking it.

I have the exact same type of room Chirpie is planning and am really unimpressed with the amount of impact noise heard inside the bare shell of the room when people above are working/moving things around and things get dropped on the floor. I have to think the metal decking plays a large role in the amount of ringing I am hearing. Spraying 3" of closed cell foam has quieted things down noticeably...I am aware that closed cell foam is not good for sound absorbtion (and is in fact detrimental as it conducts), but the foam worked regardless and was also done for thermal insulation purposes. The guy that did the foam is a long-time friend with over 20 years in the insulation business and he said open-cell foam wasn't an option in this application.

I believe decoupling the ceiling joists is an excellent (if not strongly recommended) method of ceiling construction in a structural slab like ours; precast hollow-core plank probably doesn't benefit as much. I am assuming you are planning a similar thickness to mine though...8.5" to 5.5" (for snow melt drainage). Probably should have just incorporated a drain and poured it all a uniform thickness, but that's not what happened.
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post #73 of 279 Old 11-14-2016, 10:36 PM - Thread Starter
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So over a month later after signing a contract and still waiting to sit down with the architect. Not the best start. Looks like the cold temps are finally arriving soon as well. Not all that happy about that. We'll see how much it affects things.

Anyway, to kill time, I've been futzing with the design. I'm going to see about moving the door to the back of the theater room. I think it'll provide better flexibility for ideal speaker and column placements.

See renders and if anyone sees some obvious red flag, be sure to squeak. The renders are a bit rough still. I'm still trying to figure out designs and colors and lots of little light and stage details, no trim is in there yet, the walls are too plain looking and I need to come up with pattern/lighting schemes for them, so no need commenting on that, it'll change a fair bit. I do like the idea of tempered thick glass for the steps and put a light UNDER it. Maybe even a multicolor LED light, that'd be fun. Same idea for the columns, glass inserts that could have light behind it that could be multicolored. All just ideas at this point.

Having said all that, my big question is, how big of an opening should I allow for the HVAC/electrical/low voltage wiring? I think I still want that hole to be where the original door location was, as it'll make the HVAC run shorter.

Thanks for any and all ideas!
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Last edited by chirpie; 11-15-2016 at 07:20 AM.
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post #74 of 279 Old 11-15-2016, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
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I do like the idea of tempered thick glass for the steps and put a light UNDER it. Maybe even a multicolor LED light, that'd be fun. Same idea for the columns, glass inserts that could have light behind it that could multicolored. All just ideas at this point.

Having said all that, my big question is, how big of an opening should I allow for the HVAC/electrical/low voltage wiring? I think I still want that hole to be where the original door location was, as it'll make the HVAC run shorter.
For the steps, are you talking having the top of the step or the front of the step being the glass with lights? I have those small, roughly 2"x2" Legrand Adorne lights on the front of my steps... They have three brightness levels, and the two brighter options make a noticeable light reflection on the screen. I would be concerned if you were doing the front of the steps with lights, that it would be too much light getting to the screen. Of course, if you had them turned off during the movie, wouldn't matter... in theory, could be some type of programmable light that when you push a 'pause' or 'stop', the lights come on... I haven't done that/ don't know exactly how to do it, but pretty sure it can be done. I think it would be a neat look, but a consideration.

I am not real sure on the penetrations for HVAC/ Electric/ Low Voltage... but most of what I have read, suggest that the Electric/High Voltage & Low Voltage lines be separated a bit. I would think for the Electric/High Voltage, you need to decide what all circuits you are running and go from there. If you are running 4, 12 gauge wires vs running 8 of them, or a single 6 gauge wire for a sub-panel, all would require differences.

For low voltage, I have a bunch of wires coming in through a 4" diameter vent pipe and feel it is a good size. You could probably get away with a little smaller, but not sure it is worth the risk.
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post #75 of 279 Old 11-15-2016, 05:44 AM
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While I agree the illuminated glass steps would be really cool.. it doesn't seem practical to have light shine up during a movie. I would opt for something that directs the light down; anything that illuminates the step for safety during a movie but doesn't interfere with the presentation of the movie.

As far as HVAC penetrations.. You really need to do the calculations on the room to figure it out. Seating for 10 will require a lot of cooling (and ventilating, as noted above).

Determine cooling load, select ac unit, size duct to cfm of unit, size registers/returns to cfm per each. Variable speed units can make it easier, but at a cost.

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post #76 of 279 Old 11-15-2016, 10:26 AM
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So for those who are following and have already did a build similar to what Chirpie is trying, how is the cell phone signal in the theater? Right now, for my area, Verizon and AT&T are decent, T-Mobile and Spring were horrible. Is it recommended to have wifi calling as an option with your carrier, install a hotspot, or not needed? I'm guessing the answer might just be, you won't know until you build it. Any thoughts?
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post #77 of 279 Old 11-15-2016, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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So for those who are following and have already did a build similar to what Chirpie is trying, how is the cell phone signal in the theater? Right now, for my area, Verizon and AT&T are decent, T-Mobile and Spring were horrible. Is it recommended to have wifi calling as an option with your carrier, install a hotspot, or not needed? I'm guessing the answer might just be, you won't know until you build it. Any thoughts?
My experience is, it has more to do with typical signal strength of the area, even in a concrete bunker room, though I usually lose a bar in my current theater room (Which is concrete on all four sides, but not the ceiling.) And this particular area I'm moving to is horrific with Sprint for cellular covereage. (It's bad where I am now, and gets worse as you head west.) Luckily I have wi-fi calling with them, and will be getting Google Fiber, so I expect not to have too many issues in home.
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post #78 of 279 Old 11-16-2016, 01:50 PM
 
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I would wait to make that call after you have a problem. No sense trying to worry about fixing something that might not exist.
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post #79 of 279 Old 11-17-2016, 04:15 PM
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What's the intended screen size? Planning for the projector in the room or outside the room? Which row are you considering the MLP? Why the 'kick-ins' on either side of the screen?? Is this related to the house profile or purely for aesthetics? Narrowing inward that close to the screen with a wider seating area can influence the acoustics of the front sound stage (primarily first reflections) and must be managed more carefully than if the walls are splayed out. Something to keep in mind for an interior acoustics perspective. I'd also ask what depth you are allowing for acoustic treatments (considering a stretched fabric system). Since you have good room width, you may consider allowing 4-6" depth for acoustic treatment.

For HVAC, two 8" or 10" supplies and the equivalent in returns will be sufficient to quietly heat, cool and ventilate the space, pending final calculations based on seat count, lighting, equipment in the room and the quantity and type of thermal insulation.

No more than a 2" conduit would be needed for all high voltage line transfer. I'd go with a 3" or 4" conduit for low voltage wire transfer through the concrete because all those speaker and sub wires really add up quick.
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post #80 of 279 Old 11-28-2016, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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What's the intended screen size?
170-180" The distance from screen numbers in the attached file are a really rough estimate. I actually expect a bit more room than that between the seats when all is said and done.

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Planning for the projector in the room or outside the room?
Back of the room in a hush box

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Which row are you considering the MLP? Why the 'kick-ins' on either side of the screen?? Is this related to the house profile or purely for aesthetics? Narrowing inward that close to the screen with a wider seating area can influence the acoustics of the front sound stage (primarily first reflections) and must be managed more carefully than if the walls are splayed out. Something to keep in mind for an interior acoustics perspective. I'd also ask what depth you are allowing for acoustic treatments (considering a stretched fabric system). Since you have good room width, you may consider allowing 4-6" depth for acoustic treatment.
The kick ins were not for aesthetics. I was mirroring a bump-in on the foundation on the opposite wall for symmetry. I've abandoned that idea. (See attached, version .2) I talked to a few people (Shawn in particular) who basically said, definitely do not do that. LOL. So I'm giving up room size for better acoustics. See attached, version .3 (Sniff. Oh well.) I'll mess with exact space I give up for treatments later, for now I need to nail down my basics since we're FINALLY meeting with an architect tomorrow. (A month and a half after handing off an earnest money check.)

Quote:
For HVAC, two 8" or 10" supplies and the equivalent in returns will be sufficient to quietly heat, cool and ventilate the space, pending final calculations based on seat count, lighting, equipment in the room and the quantity and type of thermal insulation.
If the minisplit and fresh air returns are directly feeding into the room and are it's own closed system, would there be any need to have holes made for the supplies that lead into the rest of the basement? (See attached, versions .2 and .3)

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No more than a 2" conduit would be needed for all high voltage line transfer. I'd go with a 3" or 4" conduit for low voltage wire transfer through the concrete because all those speaker and sub wires really add up quick.
Sounds good! Thanks a lot man!






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Last edited by chirpie; 11-28-2016 at 03:02 PM.
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post #81 of 279 Old 11-28-2016, 08:47 PM
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Keep in the loop with the architect. We may need to talk with him or her.

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post #82 of 279 Old 11-28-2016, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Keep in the loop with the architect. We may need to talk with him or her.
Is there anything specific I'd want to ask up front? Not sure how many chances we'll have to talk depending on the temperatures and getting a chance to pour. Gotta love waiting on the weather. (Among other things.)

Some items may change, be agreed upon, or shot down depending on how the civil engineers and surveyors ruled on certain things, and the architect may have to defer to them.
This is the list I have to talk about tomorrow (As it pertains to this room), in case it could help someone else have talking points in the future.

- Ceiling height in theater room, is it actually 12ft or is it like the 9ft ceiling in the basement that's more like 8'8"? Would adding another foot be possible?
- They balked at really long TJI's but I'll ask again. The back up plan is to ask them to pack the i beam with wood to hang shorter TJI's to. Certainly way easier, but that does cause mechanical transfer.
- Where to place Registers into media room
- Where to place penetrations for low and high voltage into media room
- Door location into media room
- Sump pump location in basement (attempting to place on a wall on the opposite side of the theater room, but the plot has a pretty decent grade pitch, so it may make sense to put it somewhere I'm not aware of yet.)
- Home run location for wiring to meet (data, audio, security, tv, phone, etc)
- What water proofing measures are taken on the garage floor
- Additional 100 amp panel price/location
- Potential location for minisplit (or 1.5 ton unit) outside the home?

I think that's most of it for now. Whew.

Last edited by chirpie; 11-28-2016 at 09:20 PM.
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post #83 of 279 Old 11-29-2016, 03:32 AM
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All good concerns and questions. Biggest issues are ceiling height (you can dig down if need be to gain height) and door entrance. That part, I'd need to be involved in, so we would need a working concept prior to certifying the plans from the architect.

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post #84 of 279 Old 11-29-2016, 06:11 AM - Thread Starter
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All good concerns and questions. Biggest issues are ceiling height (you can dig down if need be to gain height) and door entrance. That part, I'd need to be involved in, so we would need a working concept prior to certifying the plans from the architect.
The dimensions here are accurate within a few inches I believe. I'll hopefully update with exact measurements later today. What else would we need to know in order to make a proper working concept? I believe it's $750 a pop for making changes after the initial meeting.

And for anyone who finds it remotely interesting, here's what I consider my priorities for sound in the room.


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post #85 of 279 Old 11-29-2016, 11:12 AM
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Clearly 0.3 is preferred layout, without question.

I will answer your other questions in a post tonight but for now I just have a few questions:

What is the Green area to the left of the mechanical room (the other green area)? Is that storage?

Is the furnace in that mechanical room for the upper floors of the home or is that the dedicated basement system? Did you decide dual zone or the basement AHU or a separate mini system?

Where are you currently proposing the bulk of your equipment be located?

What is the area in the corner outside the theater entrance where the 200 amp panel is located? How big is this space?

Thanks!
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post #86 of 279 Old 11-29-2016, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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What is the Green area to the left of the mechanical room (the other green area)? Is that storage?
Bathroom.

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Is the furnace in that mechanical room for the upper floors of the home or is that the dedicated basement system?
That's for the rest of the house only. The rest of the house will be divided up into 3 zones but will not touch the theater room.

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Did you decide dual zone or the basement AHU or a separate mini system?
Separate mini-split. (Or 1.5 ton )

Quote:
Where are you currently proposing the bulk of your equipment be located?
I was thinking about putting my equipment rack near the spot of the low voltage penetration, but it may have to be moved. Still thinking over it.


Quote:
What is the area in the corner outside the theater entrance where the 200 amp panel is located? How big is this space?
Thanks!
It's where the random exercise equipment will go.

See attached. I have a new fly in the ointment after the visit today. My current door spot will not work. It's exactly where they need a notch for an ibeam in the foundation. (Dang it.) (See attached.)

I have until MONDAY to figure out where I want to put the door and the furnance/water heater. It can be moved a few feet left/right up/down, but it can't be thrown in the corners, it needs to be basically in the middle of the basement. Any changes after that will delay things.

Also, I'm supposed to be getting a .pdf of the basement with exact measurements within the next 24 hours. It's actually FLIPPED from everything I've posted thus far but it's mirror identical and so it shouldn't change anything.

Also, it sounds like they'll let me do the long TJI's. So far it looks like sound isolation won a battle. I just need to provide racks for them to hang on and they'll need to pull a permit as they can't simply sit on the floor during construction. Totally reasonable.

They also said they can cut a hole for a future mini split on the outside of the house, just let them know where.


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post #87 of 279 Old 11-29-2016, 01:12 PM
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Can the furnace and water heater be moved where you have the rack placed, put a small wall with access door there to close them off in the end of the room, put the rack against that wall and use the door placement you have suggested on here? I think that would make a decent option, as you'd then have a pseudo 'lobby' in the entrance, where you'll be able to insert a disc or whatever into the rack on your way in.
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The Cinema 1858 Remodel Thread
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post #88 of 279 Old 12-01-2016, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirpie View Post
Bathroom.



That's for the rest of the house only. The rest of the house will be divided up into 3 zones but will not touch the theater room.



Separate mini-split. (Or 1.5 ton )



I was thinking about putting my equipment rack near the spot of the low voltage penetration, but it may have to be moved. Still thinking over it.




It's where the random exercise equipment will go.

See attached. I have a new fly in the ointment after the visit today. My current door spot will not work. It's exactly where they need a notch for an ibeam in the foundation. (Dang it.) (See attached.)

I have until MONDAY to figure out where I want to put the door and the furnance/water heater. It can be moved a few feet left/right up/down, but it can't be thrown in the corners, it needs to be basically in the middle of the basement. Any changes after that will delay things.

Also, I'm supposed to be getting a .pdf of the basement with exact measurements within the next 24 hours. It's actually FLIPPED from everything I've posted thus far but it's mirror identical and so it shouldn't change anything.

Also, it sounds like they'll let me do the long TJI's. So far it looks like sound isolation won a battle. I just need to provide racks for them to hang on and they'll need to pull a permit as they can't simply sit on the floor during construction. Totally reasonable.

They also said they can cut a hole for a future mini split on the outside of the house, just let them know where.


Chirpie...Love the room layout. Is there a piano player in the house? ( noticed the Grand) what software are you using for the plan layout? Nice images...
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post #89 of 279 Old 12-02-2016, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69glamboy View Post
Chirpie...Love the room layout. Is there a piano player in the house? ( noticed the Grand) what software are you using for the plan layout? Nice images...
Thanks!

This is my piano player, the daughter. (Named Celes after Celes Chere from Final Fantasy 6 ^_^)



The software I usually use is Cinema 4D Studio R18 and Photoshop CC 2017.
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post #90 of 279 Old 12-02-2016, 11:05 AM
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Great pic! Nice to see the next generation of musicians rolling in. Thanks for the software info as well. I have a feeling this will be a theater of the month. Good luck with the build.
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