Speaker placement in a non-ideal room! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 04-03-2017, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Speaker placement in a non-ideal room!

Hello,

I am almost at the drywall stage of my basement home theater and would like some advice on speaker placement. The room is not an ideal layout but it's the best I could come with with given the basement layout. I am debating between 5.2 and 7.2.

I was planning to do a AT screen if I can find a good screen that allows me a have a row of seats 10ft or so back and not be able to see the perforation/weave in the material.

As far as speaker placement goes, I would like to mount them on a wall and want to avoid stands at all costs, but as you can see from the pictures I am limited with placement as I don't have much for back walls and the opening for the small hallway is right in the middle of the room (where the ideal place to mount side speakers would be!)

I'm open to all suggestions and not set on a certain speaker type yet.(dipole/bipole,etc.)

My current system consists of Sony VPL-HW40ES, KEF Q900/600C, and a XS-30 from PSA.

(the screen wall will be where the window is)
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Old 04-03-2017, 06:24 PM
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Make a spandex screen... I sit 9'...love it. Do 7.2.4... wire for 4 Atmos speakers too... They add a lot to even non Atmos encoded movies.

I mounted my sides and surrounds at 7ft aiming them down towards the main listening position. Not perfect but works nicely

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Old 04-03-2017, 06:28 PM
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or you can buy speakers that can throw around sounds to give an amazing reproduction of spacey, airy, sound. most speakers beam which requires more speakers.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5 Subs: Velodyne HGS 12, VA 1512, Rythmik FV15HP
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Old 04-03-2017, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
or you can buy speakers that can throw around sounds to give an amazing reproduction of spacey, airy, sound. most speakers beam which requires more speakers.
Like bose?

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whipit likes this.

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Old 04-03-2017, 07:36 PM
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Suggested layou.... maybe...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jer181 View Post
Hello,

I am almost at the drywall stage of my basement home theater and would like some advice on speaker placement. The room is not an ideal layout but it's the best I could come with with given the basement layout. I am debating between 5.2 and 7.2.

I was planning to do a AT screen if I can find a good screen that allows me a have a row of seats 10ft or so back and not be able to see the perforation/weave in the material.

As far as speaker placement goes, I would like to mount them on a wall and want to avoid stands at all costs, but as you can see from the pictures I am limited with placement as I don't have much for back walls and the opening for the small hallway is right in the middle of the room (where the ideal place to mount side speakers would be!)

I'm open to all suggestions and not set on a certain speaker type yet.(dipole/bipole,etc.)

My current system consists of Sony VPL-HW40ES, KEF Q900/600C, and a XS-30 from PSA.

(the screen wall will be where the window is)

Maybe something like this on a 7.2.4 layout. Subwoofers you would have to move around and determine where the best location for them is. 4 green circles are Atmos speakers, such as the Klipsch 3800's. right surround speaker would be above your light switches, right around 54" . you would want the couch so the left and right surround are at the 90 degree mark.


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Old 04-03-2017, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Livin View Post
Make a spandex screen... I sit 9'...love it. Do 7.2.4... wire for 4 Atmos speakers too... They add a lot to even non Atmos encoded movies.

I mounted my sides and surrounds at 7ft aiming them down towards the main listening position. Not perfect but works nicely

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
For spandex do you have to have a couple layers with some kind of black backing?

No plans for Atoms just yet but I may run wires for future anyways. (my receiver is and SC67 and not Atmos ready)

So you mounted yours in the roof aiming down?
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
or you can buy speakers that can throw around sounds to give an amazing reproduction of spacey, airy, sound. most speakers beam which requires more speakers.
Any suggestion on said type of speakers?

I wouldn't be sure that would work as there isn't a back wall really to bounce sounds off of.
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Old 04-03-2017, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
Maybe something like this on a 7.2.4 layout. Subwoofers you would have to move around and determine where the best location for them is. 4 green circles are Atmos speakers, such as the Klipsch 3800's. right surround speaker would be above your light switches, right around 54" . you would want the couch so the left and right surround are at the 90 degree mark.

Thanks for the suggestion. Don't you have to have a receiver capable of Atmos, or do you just hook them up to a regular receiver as extra channels? (I have a SC67 which is capable of 11.2)

How do you think the Klipsch 3800 would pair with KEF? I haven't looked into it but I'm pretty sure that KEF also makes in ceiling speakers.

The only problem I see with that layout is the back speakers. Its a very narrow wall to mount speakers on and on the other side I was planning on putting a built in AV cabinet. First thought was to just do 5.2 and mount the sides where you have put the back atoms speakers on either side of the wall but am unsure if they would hit the MLP in the correct spot, hence was thinking about Kef's Q800D, which are dipoles.

any thoughts on that?
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Old 04-08-2017, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
Maybe something like this on a 7.2.4 layout. Subwoofers you would have to move around and determine where the best location for them is. 4 green circles are Atmos speakers, such as the Klipsch 3800's. right surround speaker would be above your light switches, right around 54" . you would want the couch so the left and right surround are at the 90 degree mark.

I really like this placement but I'm still unsure if it's achievable. The back speakers would have to be on that wall enclosing the telepost, which is only 14" wide. Also I have a built in rack on the wall leading under the stairs. If I make the rack 4ft tall and 32" off the floor I'm only left with 12 1/2" of wall above the rack where I can mount the other speaker. Any suggestions on the spacing of the AV rack? maybe I'm going with overkill with a 4ft inwall rack/shelving.

If I only go with side surrounds I'm unsure if I should put them in front or behind of that small hallway opening. With a 2ft screen wall that leaves me with 10ft to the start of that hallway, so I we would be sitting right at that point, not before. Am I losing much if I mounting dipoles on that 10ft mark or should I have them behind us with the one dipole speaker hitting the back wall and the other aimed at the back of our heads?

In regards to in ceiling would I space them even in the room, taking into consideration the soffit's running down the sides of the room.
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Old 04-09-2017, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jer181 View Post
Thanks for the suggestion. Don't you have to have a receiver capable of Atmos, or do you just hook them up to a regular receiver as extra channels? (I have a SC67 which is capable of 11.2)

How do you think the Klipsch 3800 would pair with KEF? I haven't looked into it but I'm pretty sure that KEF also makes in ceiling speakers.

The only problem I see with that layout is the back speakers. Its a very narrow wall to mount speakers on and on the other side I was planning on putting a built in AV cabinet. First thought was to just do 5.2 and mount the sides where you have put the back atoms speakers on either side of the wall but am unsure if they would hit the MLP in the correct spot, hence was thinking about Kef's Q800D, which are dipoles.

any thoughts on that?
You maybe able to place them on the outside walls, making sure the main drivers of the rear speakers are aimed towards the MLP.

As far as Atmos, yes, you'll need a Atmos receiver, however, If you don't have one at the moment, I would definitely wire for it while you have the walls all opened up and no drywall. You will definitely want Atmos on your next receiver upgrade.

As far as the cabinet, I would recommend having an AV rack. Not sure if you have done a layout of your equipment in the rack already, but you can hone in on how much space you need if you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jer181 View Post
I really like this placement but I'm still unsure if it's achievable. The back speakers would have to be on that wall enclosing the telepost, which is only 14" wide. Also I have a built in rack on the wall leading under the stairs. If I make the rack 4ft tall and 32" off the floor I'm only left with 12 1/2" of wall above the rack where I can mount the other speaker. Any suggestions on the spacing of the AV rack? maybe I'm going with overkill with a 4ft inwall rack/shelving.

If I only go with side surrounds I'm unsure if I should put them in front or behind of that small hallway opening. With a 2ft screen wall that leaves me with 10ft to the start of that hallway, so I we would be sitting right at that point, not before. Am I losing much if I mounting dipoles on that 10ft mark or should I have them behind us with the one dipole speaker hitting the back wall and the other aimed at the back of our heads?

In regards to in ceiling would I space them even in the room, taking into consideration the soffit's running down the sides of the room.
As far the in-ceilings, Atmos setup guide is what i refer to. from the center line to the center channel at ear level, your Top Front Left speaker from the MLP should be up to a 45 degree and and over to the left at anywhere from 30 to 60 degree's.

Repeat this for the TFR, TRL, TRR speakers.
Atmos Setup Guide.

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Old 04-10-2017, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
You maybe able to place them on the outside walls, making sure the main drivers of the rear speakers are aimed towards the MLP.

As far as Atmos, yes, you'll need a Atmos receiver, however, If you don't have one at the moment, I would definitely wire for it while you have the walls all opened up and no drywall. You will definitely want Atmos on your next receiver upgrade.

As far as the cabinet, I would recommend having an AV rack. Not sure if you have done a layout of your equipment in the rack already, but you can hone in on how much space you need if you do.



As far the in-ceilings, Atmos setup guide is what i refer to. from the center line to the center channel at ear level, your Top Front Left speaker from the MLP should be up to a 45 degree and and over to the left at anywhere from 30 to 60 degree's.

Repeat this for the TFR, TRL, TRR speakers.
Atmos Setup Guide.
So your suggestion would still to go 7.2.4? With the rear speakers on the side walls closer to the stairs with mounts that point them towards the MLP?

What do you think about going 5.2.4? It looks like it would work with my layout as I would put the sides slightly behind the MLP on the side walls (approx. 120 degrees), which would put the speakers just after the hallway. If I get dipoles (KEF Q800ds) wouldn't the one set of drivers point towards that back wall and bounce sound off creating a somewhat sound field for the rear?
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Old 04-11-2017, 03:32 AM
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Why not rotate the bar ninety degrees and extend the speaker wall over a wee bit?
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Old 04-11-2017, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Why not rotate the bar ninety degrees and extend the speaker wall over a wee bit?
Good suggestion but it would be too tight a fit to do. Plus I already have to plumbing going to that back wall.
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jer181 View Post
So your suggestion would still to go 7.2.4? With the rear speakers on the side walls closer to the stairs with mounts that point them towards the MLP?

What do you think about going 5.2.4? It looks like it would work with my layout as I would put the sides slightly behind the MLP on the side walls (approx. 120 degrees), which would put the speakers just after the hallway. If I get dipoles (KEF Q800ds) wouldn't the one set of drivers point towards that back wall and bounce sound off creating a somewhat sound field for the rear?
5.2.4 definitely will work just fine. However, I would suggest wiring for 7.2.4, though you may not use the 2 additional today, you may in the future. Speaker wire is inexpensive in the grand scheme of things. Bury it in the wall as I suggest. You don't use it, it will be fine. if you change your mind after drywall, it's an easy fix to add a LV outlet as long as you document where you ended the wires.

As far as bouncing off the walls, This is not really recommended. realistically this is sometimes refereed to as 'back slap' or something like this. These are typically unwanted acoustics in a room, and other methods of control, such as diffusion or absorption or a combination is recommended for proper audio response on the back wall to create the enveloping audio experience.

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Old 04-12-2017, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
5.2.4 definitely will work just fine. However, I would suggest wiring for 7.2.4, though you may not use the 2 additional today, you may in the future. Speaker wire is inexpensive in the grand scheme of things. Bury it in the wall as I suggest. You don't use it, it will be fine. if you change your mind after drywall, it's an easy fix to add a LV outlet as long as you document where you ended the wires.

As far as bouncing off the walls, This is not really recommended. realistically this is sometimes refereed to as 'back slap' or something like this. These are typically unwanted acoustics in a room, and other methods of control, such as diffusion or absorption or a combination is recommended for proper audio response on the back wall to create the enveloping audio experience.
I think it may be my only option at this point. I will take your suggestion and run wires for rear speakers as well, couldn't hurt.

With that being said what speaker layout would you suggest as 5.2.4? I'm still unsure where I should put the sides. I am also leaning towards the KEF Q800Ds (dipoles) as I like the idea of sound that isn't so direct and a little more spacious.
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jer181 View Post
I think it may be my only option at this point. I will take your suggestion and run wires for rear speakers as well, couldn't hurt.

With that being said what speaker layout would you suggest as 5.2.4? I'm still unsure where I should put the sides. I am also leaning towards the KEF Q800Ds (dipoles) as I like the idea of sound that isn't so direct and a little more spacious.

I would go with your ~120 degree position (more behind you sitting in the couch, right side of the hallway opening) instead of ~80 degree, (left side of the hallway opening).


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Last edited by sirjaymz; 04-12-2017 at 02:54 PM. Reason: add layout guide and link
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Old 04-12-2017, 03:12 PM
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So I did a little overlay with your layout..May not be so good to put the speaker to the right side of the hallway at ~130 degrees.

I was only 1/4" off on my scaling, so... let's think about this a moment.
130 deg may not be so good.... hmmmm..


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Last edited by sirjaymz; 04-12-2017 at 03:20 PM. Reason: update scaling ratio
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Old 04-13-2017, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
So I did a little overlay with your layout..May not be so good to put the speaker to the right side of the hallway at ~130 degrees.

I was only 1/4" off on my scaling, so... let's think about this a moment.
130 deg may not be so good.... hmmmm..

thank you for doing that. The visualization helps. I don't think I would sit any closer than the opening of that hallway as I plan to have an AT screen out at least 2ft from the front wall, which would put that distance at about 10ft.

That hallway is in the wrong place!! lol
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Old Yesterday, 12:33 PM
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couple options..

1) not have the 2 feet behind the screen and move the screen closer to the wall, however, speakers would now need to be in front/sides of screen.
This will allow the seating position to move forward, allowing the 90 degree speaker placement for the surrounds.

2) re-frame the hallway/doorways and have a side by taking out some of the wall the mechanical room that is adjacent to the 'Games' room and make that a hallway entrance. this would allow you to block off the existing hallway entrance and still keep your 2ft behind the screen, along with achieving 90+ degrees for surrounds speakers. this requires re-framing and moving electrical switches.

3) make a much smaller room, but rotating your screen wall to the bottom wall and build a wall from bottom wall up towards the switch wall on the left of hte existing hallway.

Maybe @BIGmouthinDC has some ideas.

That's all i got.

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Old Today, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
couple options..

1) not have the 2 feet behind the screen and move the screen closer to the wall, however, speakers would now need to be in front/sides of screen.
This will allow the seating position to move forward, allowing the 90 degree speaker placement for the surrounds.

2) re-frame the hallway/doorways and have a side by taking out some of the wall the mechanical room that is adjacent to the 'Games' room and make that a hallway entrance. this would allow you to block off the existing hallway entrance and still keep your 2ft behind the screen, along with achieving 90+ degrees for surrounds speakers. this requires re-framing and moving electrical switches.

3) make a much smaller room, but rotating your screen wall to the bottom wall and build a wall from bottom wall up towards the switch wall on the left of hte existing hallway.

Maybe @BIGmouthinDC has some ideas.

That's all i got.
At this point I think I have to compromise and just place the speakers off axis. The framing is already done and so is the electrical and permits approved. Re-framing is not an option this late in the game.

Thanks for all the help. Will be interesting to see if BIGmouthinDC has any ideas. (that man's a genius around here hey!)
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