HT Project - Seeking Guidance ($15k budget) - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 16Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 43 Old 08-16-2017, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oklahomie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 30
HT Project - Seeking Guidance ($15k budget)

Good day all,

I am in the process of finalizing floor plans for a custom built house. One of my dreams has been to have a dedicated HT; so here I am! I will be working with a 26' X 18' X 10' room. Like my title says, I will have a budget of $15,000.00; this money will go towards speakers, receiver/amp, seating, projector, screen, and any ancillary support items. The builder I am partnering with will be able to add all of the fun soundproofing costs into the build price of the home; however, these are things that I will need to figure out so I can clearly describe my needs.

I am open to any and all feedback/advice given the budget that I am working with. I have some preconceived ideas of what might be good (listed below), but am not married to any product or idea. The only thing I would like to be firm on is a 3-row design with room behind for people to navigate around the viewing area without distracting the other viewers. Again, I'm not married to any particular brand across the various component categories. I am hoping to receive thoughts and feedback from the community as many of you have been where I am now. It's a very exciting time, and I'm excited to share my journey as things progress.

Sound Proofing Thoughts:
  • 2x6 studs with sound dampening insulated material
    green glue
    sound dampening double thick drywall

Screen Thoughts
I would like a large screen - as big as I can comfortable fit into the space. Currently I have a 150" AT in the design, but am not married to this. I am also not married to how it is positioned on the wall

Speaker Thoughts
I really like (from reading, and from passively hearing once) the Klipsch reference line of speakers(I do not want to slump on this):
Center: Klipsch RP-450CA $500.00
Front R/L: Klipsch RP-280FA $1600
Side Surround: Klipsch RP-250S $650
Rear Pair: Klipsch RP=280F $800.00
Rear Atmos Pair: Klipsch RP-140SA $499.99
Subs: X2 Klipsch R-115SW $1400.00

Receiver Thought
Yamaha RX-A3060BL 11.2 receiver $2000

external Amp
Not sure on this

Projector
Optoma UHD60 4K $2000.00

Seating Thoughts
First Row X4 seats: Seatcraft Rialto front Row $1280
Second X4 seats: Seatcraft Rialto $1650
Third X4 seats: Seatcraft Rialto back row $1900

Risers
Builder can help with these, but I will need to provide guidance and clarity for how they are filled, height, etc...

False wall
I gave myself 36" of room for speakers to be placed behind screen - and currently have the design raised 12" to be flush with the viewing stage.

Wiring
Electrician will handle this; I just need to provide my needs.

Design
Dark colors; nothing that is reflective. Probably some column work on the sides.

Lighting
Theater lighting on the side walls, and maybe some runner lighting on the floor.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Floor Plan.PNG
Views:	61
Size:	441.0 KB
ID:	2268742   Click image for larger version

Name:	Top.PNG
Views:	62
Size:	1.17 MB
ID:	2268744   Click image for larger version

Name:	Side.PNG
Views:	47
Size:	1.12 MB
ID:	2268746  
Oklahomie is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 43 Old 08-16-2017, 07:23 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahomie View Post
Good day all,


Speaker Thoughts
I really like (from reading, and from passively hearing once) the Klipsch reference line of speakers(I do not want to slump on this):
Center: Klipsch RP-450CA $500.00
Front R/L: Klipsch RP-280FA $1600
Side Surround: Klipsch RP-250S $650
Rear Pair: Klipsch RP=280F $800.00
Rear Atmos Pair: Klipsch RP-140SA $499.99
Subs: X2 Klipsch R-115SW $1400.00

Receiver Thought
Yamaha RX-A3060BL 11.2 receiver $2000
Some general thoughts, not an expert opinion, but i'll get the ball rolling:

Rear RP280F's seem a little excessive in my opinion, you could do the job with a pair of RP-160m's.

Since you're doing everything from scratch, I would suggest you do true speakers on the ceiling rather than the 280's with the atmos modules. That way you can be sure they will be pointed/placed in the best place, rather than having sound bounce off the ceiling.

Subwoofer: Klipsch Subwoofers can be unreliable in terms of electronics go. Besides that, they are mostly overpriced relative to other subs. And, there's no need to "match" subwoofers to the rest of your speakers.

Look at subs from HSU and SVS, they do pair-pricing. You should consider dual 15"s for that budget.

To save a little cost for not that much less of a downgrade you could go down to Left/Front RP-260F's, especially since you'll be getting two large subwoofers anyways. The 260's are slightly smaller, but would let the 450c definitely stand out as the star of the show. You could save the money for a multitude of other things.

Receiver: don't sweat it, just look for features you need and want. If you're going for Klipsch, you won't need to worry about receiver wattage. If a lower down Yamaha Aventage has all the features you need, I would consider saving money there too.

Any of these savings could allow for a few things:
Get even better speakers
Get even better projector,
Do even better soundproofing,
Get even better subwoofers/4 subwoofers
etc.

Good luck

Just to add: since you're considering an AT screen, you could do 3 RP-280F's across the front 3. That would probably be a good place to reallocate savings from elsewhere. This would sound better than 2 LR 280F's (or 260f) and a 450c.

Denon 1612 ; Klipsch RP-160m ; Klipsch RP-250c ; Wharfedale Valdus 300 ; Emotiva Basx s12

Last edited by gygess; 08-16-2017 at 07:27 PM.
gygess is offline  
post #3 of 43 Old 08-16-2017, 08:02 PM
Senior Member
 
jedi1982's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: MO
Posts: 396
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 126
Same thoughts. If you're doing a false wall and will have an acoustic transparent screen, you'll want your LCR to be identical. I'd spend some time researching soundproofing/sound isolation and honestly, if you're not building the whole thing with that in mind, it might wind up costing you a lot more money with little added benefit. Check out my thread as my room is similar to yours and build costs as well. My wife and I are, too, building a custom home and want to make sure we get it the way we want it! She, however, has nothing to do with the theater and won't until it's complete. Then, she'll welcome it with arms wide open

Regarding speakers, check out Aperion Audio (that's what I'm using for my LCR's) as I've been a long-time fan and love their sound. Started out with their mid-tier speakers about a decade ago then upgraded to their flagships about 4 years ago. With my home theater build, I'll keep the towers behind my screen as mentioned above, however, I'm opting for different inceiling and inwalls as theirs are open baffle by design. That means that there's no enclosure behind them and the sound will bounce all around in the stud cavities which is how they are designed and will work well for that type of environment, but I've opted for sound isolation and those wouldn't work with my theater.

With that space, I'd recommend 2 rows vs 3, but is personal preference. If you're wanting a 150" screen, your first row will be really close to that and knowing you're planning for an acoustic transparent screen, you'll likely be able to see the weave/holes (if vinyl) that close. 9-10' is typically the distance those things disappear.
jedi1982 is offline  
 
post #4 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 06:34 AM
HOME THEATER CONTRACTOR
 
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 27,999
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3819 Post(s)
Liked: 3246
You are jamming a lot of seats in the room. Some thoughts with 5'6" spacing row to row you will not be able to fully extend the foot rests. You can't go by the dimensions of the chair as your feet hang out over the ends of the foot rests. I use 6 1/2 ft for row to row planning. Second I hope your builder is planning to up size the HVAC capacity for full occupancy situations and includes a dedicated return duct for the room.

Mounting double layers of drywall with GG directly to the studs and ceiling joists, is at best a 50% solution, Adjust your expectations for sound isolation accordingly and you will be satisfied. If you used clips and channel isolation and hevay double layers of 5/8 you can substitute the cheapest fiberglass insulation to pay for the modifications.

Make sure the builder is using a sound attenuation strategy for the duct work, backer boxes for any recessed light fixtures/speakers, putty pads on the outlets and selects a heavy door with air tight seals.
LydMekk, jedi1982 and Ladeback like this.

Last edited by BIGmouthinDC; 08-17-2017 at 06:37 AM.
BIGmouthinDC is offline  
post #5 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 08:32 AM
Senior Member
 
iconrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 279
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Do you have any interest at all in building or assembling your own speakers and subwoofers? You could save some money and potentially end up with a better product (especially subwoofers). I totally understand if you'd rather just buy a finished product.

What part of OK are you in? (PM me if you don't want to put it here) I built my own spandex 138" AT screen for about $120 and it looks great!

Optoma HD37 on 138" DIY AT Screen
Infinity Beta 40s, Infinity Beta C250, Atlantic Technologies 224 SR
BIC H100 (DIY in the works)
Old Pioneer VSX-521
iconrl is offline  
post #6 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oklahomie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by gygess View Post
Some general thoughts, not an expert opinion, but i'll get the ball rolling:



Rear RP280F's seem a little excessive in my opinion, you could do the job with a pair of RP-160m's.



Since you're doing everything from scratch, I would suggest you do true speakers on the ceiling rather than the 280's with the atmos modules. That way you can be sure they will be pointed/placed in the best place, rather than having sound bounce off the ceiling.



Subwoofer: Klipsch Subwoofers can be unreliable in terms of electronics go. Besides that, they are mostly overpriced relative to other subs. And, there's no need to "match" subwoofers to the rest of your speakers.



Look at subs from HSU and SVS, they do pair-pricing. You should consider dual 15"s for that budget.



To save a little cost for not that much less of a downgrade you could go down to Left/Front RP-260F's, especially since you'll be getting two large subwoofers anyways. The 260's are slightly smaller, but would let the 450c definitely stand out as the star of the show. You could save the money for a multitude of other things.



Receiver: don't sweat it, just look for features you need and want. If you're going for Klipsch, you won't need to worry about receiver wattage. If a lower down Yamaha Aventage has all the features you need, I would consider saving money there too.



Any of these savings could allow for a few things:

Get even better speakers

Get even better projector,

Do even better soundproofing,

Get even better subwoofers/4 subwoofers

etc.



Good luck



Just to add: since you're considering an AT screen, you could do 3 RP-280F's across the front 3. That would probably be a good place to reallocate savings from elsewhere. This would sound better than 2 LR 280F's (or 260f) and a 450c.

I wouldn't mind running three 280F's vs the 280's and the 450 center. You bring a good point up about the matching of brands. There does seem to be much better product offerings at better price points out there for some of the different components.

I was thinking... it might have been a better idea to provide my budget for speakers alone, and see what different people suggest. I'm very open-minded with all of this.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oklahomie is offline  
post #7 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oklahomie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi1982 View Post
Same thoughts. If you're doing a false wall and will have an acoustic transparent screen, you'll want your LCR to be identical. I'd spend some time researching soundproofing/sound isolation and honestly, if you're not building the whole thing with that in mind, it might wind up costing you a lot more money with little added benefit. Check out my thread as my room is similar to yours and build costs as well. My wife and I are, too, building a custom home and want to make sure we get it the way we want it! She, however, has nothing to do with the theater and won't until it's complete. Then, she'll welcome it with arms wide open



Regarding speakers, check out Aperion Audio (that's what I'm using for my LCR's) as I've been a long-time fan and love their sound. Started out with their mid-tier speakers about a decade ago then upgraded to their flagships about 4 years ago. With my home theater build, I'll keep the towers behind my screen as mentioned above, however, I'm opting for different inceiling and inwalls as theirs are open baffle by design. That means that there's no enclosure behind them and the sound will bounce all around in the stud cavities which is how they are designed and will work well for that type of environment, but I've opted for sound isolation and those wouldn't work with my theater.



With that space, I'd recommend 2 rows vs 3, but is personal preference. If you're wanting a 150" screen, your first row will be really close to that and knowing you're planning for an acoustic transparent screen, you'll likely be able to see the weave/holes (if vinyl) that close. 9-10' is typically the distance those things disappear.

I agree with you that sound proofing needs to be at the forefront of my mind with this project. I am open for any suggestions, and I will continue to ready and educate myself on this topic. I am open for suggestions; I just have to be able to tell my builder what I want his team to do for this piece.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oklahomie is offline  
post #8 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oklahomie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
You are jamming a lot of seats in the room. Some thoughts with 5'6" spacing row to row you will not be able to fully extend the foot rests. You can't go by the dimensions of the chair as your feet hang out over the ends of the foot rests. I use 6 1/2 ft for row to row planning. Second I hope your builder is planning to up size the HVAC capacity for full occupancy situations and includes a dedicated return duct for the room.

Mounting double layers of drywall with GG directly to the studs and ceiling joists, is at best a 50% solution, Adjust your expectations for sound isolation accordingly and you will be satisfied. If you used clips and channel isolation and hevay double layers of 5/8 you can substitute the cheapest fiberglass insulation to pay for the modifications.

Make sure the builder is using a sound attenuation strategy for the duct work, backer boxes for any recessed light fixtures/speakers, putty pads on the outlets and selects a heavy door with air tight seals.

Do you think having the three rows is too much, or would it just be more cramped than you would prefer?

Could you expand a little more on what you mean by clips and channel isolation? I am all for making it right, and doing it right. I just need to present it correctly to the builder/contractor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oklahomie is offline  
post #9 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 10:18 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: College Station, Texas
Posts: 667
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 318 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahomie View Post
Do you think having the three rows is too much, or would it just be more cramped than you would prefer?

Could you expand a little more on what you mean by clips and channel isolation? I am all for making it right, and doing it right. I just need to present it correctly to the builder/contractor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As others have said skip the Klipsch subs they arent great for the price you can do much better with SVS or HSU, and also if your handy at building you can get tremendous bang for your buck building your own speakers and since your going to have an AT screen you don't even have to make them look pretty.
liffie420 is offline  
post #10 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oklahomie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by iconrl View Post
Do you have any interest at all in building or assembling your own speakers and subwoofers? You could save some money and potentially end up with a better product (especially subwoofers). I totally understand if you'd rather just buy a finished product.



What part of OK are you in? (PM me if you don't want to put it here) I built my own spandex 138" AT screen for about $120 and it looks great!


I definitely wouldn't be against building subs. I will be the first to admit that I'm not the best with building and woodworking, but I would love to learn. I'm located in the MWC Choctaw area. I would also entertain the idea of building the AT screen .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oklahomie is offline  
post #11 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 10:47 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: College Station, Texas
Posts: 667
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 318 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahomie View Post
I definitely wouldn't be against building subs. I will be the first to admit that I'm not the best with building and woodworking, but I would love to learn. I'm located in the MWC Choctaw area. I would also entertain the idea of building the AT screen .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well depending on where you buy many DIY sub kits come in a flat pack you just have to glue and nail it together.
liffie420 is offline  
post #12 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 11:09 AM
Senior Member
 
thesamarai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 228
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 45
things that save u money if u have some woodworking tools, mainly a good table saw and miter saw. Build your own speakers and subs. Not very hard to do. make your own screen. Again not very hard to do. U could pick up the Denon 4300 or 6300 really cheap now.
thesamarai is offline  
post #13 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 11:25 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: College Station, Texas
Posts: 667
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 318 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by thesamarai View Post
things that save u money if u have some woodworking tools, mainly a good table saw and miter saw. Build your own speakers and subs. Not very hard to do. make your own screen. Again not very hard to do. U could pick up the Denon 4300 or 6300 really cheap now.
True he could build a trio of the DIYSG 1099's for about $1200 not counting things like glue and other things and they will flat out blow the Klipsch out of the water, and the flat pack that goes with it is already mitered and ready to assemble.
Oklahomie likes this.
liffie420 is offline  
post #14 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 12:16 PM
HOME THEATER CONTRACTOR
 
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 27,999
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3819 Post(s)
Liked: 3246
this is a clip and channel wall construction design




As for the three rows yes I would do two rows with the rear row identical regular theaters seats on a riser, not those stubby/regular/tall designs.
If you want more overflow capacity I would add a back sit at bar behind the second row with bar stools.
Put the first row chair back at 12 ft from the screen and the second row at 18 1/2 ft.
Ladeback and Oklahomie like this.
BIGmouthinDC is offline  
post #15 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 12:20 PM
HOME THEATER CONTRACTOR
 
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 27,999
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3819 Post(s)
Liked: 3246
do you have any options on the door placement? it makes building a proper riser in this room more difficult. if it could be in front of the first row of seating, great. Then the entire back of the room could be elevated including the floor of the equipment room.

OR do you have access to the equipment room from adjacent rooms? if yes then swap the screen walls end for end.

Last edited by BIGmouthinDC; 08-17-2017 at 12:23 PM.
BIGmouthinDC is offline  
post #16 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oklahomie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
do you have any options on the door placement? it makes building a proper riser in this room more difficult. if it could be in front of the first row of seating, great. Then the entire back of the room could be elevated including the floor of the equipment room.

OR do you have access to the equipment room from adjacent rooms? if yes then swap the screen walls end for end.


I think it will be hard with how the floor plan is designed:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oklahomie is offline  
post #17 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 01:55 PM
HOME THEATER CONTRACTOR
 
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 27,999
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3819 Post(s)
Liked: 3246
what is the room below the av closet? Do you need a shower in the powder room?
BIGmouthinDC is offline  
post #18 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oklahomie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 30
HT Project - Seeking Guidance ($15k budget)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
what is the room below the av closet? Do you need a shower in the powder room?


Here is a little better image of the floor plan. It's a utility room. I'm not sure where my A/V equipment would go if I flipped the design 180 degrees. I couldn't take away from the kitchen, and the stage, screen, speakers will take up a whole wall.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oklahomie is offline  
post #19 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 04:44 PM
Senior Member
 
jedi1982's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: MO
Posts: 396
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahomie View Post
I agree with you that sound proofing needs to be at the forefront of my mind with this project. I am open for any suggestions, and I will continue to ready and educate myself on this topic. I am open for suggestions; I just have to be able to tell my builder what I want his team to do for this piece.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Honestly depending on your timeframe, that might be the greatest enemy for you at the moment. You could pour over all sorts of info and consume a great deal but could take a lot of time. My best advice (which will eat into your overall spend) is contract with a designer like @SierraMikeBravo and consult with @BIGmouthinDC who charges a nominal fee to make sure you get the most out of your build. It's easy to swap out equipment later, but you want to make sure the room is built correctly.
jedi1982 is offline  
post #20 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oklahomie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi1982 View Post
Honestly depending on your timeframe, that might be the greatest enemy for you at the moment. You could pour over all sorts of info and consume a great deal but could take a lot of time. My best advice (which will eat into your overall spend) is contract with a designer like @SierraMikeBravo and consult with @BIGmouthinDC who charges a nominal fee to make sure you get the most out of your build. It's easy to swap out equipment later, but you want to make sure the room is built correctly.
You raise a good point. Realistically, I probably have 5 months before we break ground, and almost that long before floor plans need to be solidified; however, I want to be well prepared for everything, as I don't want to encounter any major "uh oh" moments. I am a man who likes to plan. I wouldn't be against seeking consultant guidance, if @BIGmouthinDC performs that type of work. I have a hard limit for my spending, and I would like to the biggest bang for my buck. It probably would save me in the long run to have someone who knows what they are doing provide support and direction.
Oklahomie is offline  
post #21 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oklahomie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by liffie420 View Post
True he could build a trio of the DIYSG 1099's for about $1200 not counting things like glue and other things and they will flat out blow the Klipsch out of the water, and the flat pack that goes with it is already mitered and ready to assemble.
So the DIYSG's, even though they seem to be more than just a Subwoofer, they would replace what would be a standalone sub? Would these types of speakers be used in tandem with RLC speakers? I know I sound silly here, but I'm not very savvy.
Oklahomie is offline  
post #22 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 08:31 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1
I agree with the other posters regarding your sub selection, but I really can't believe that more people haven't given you recommendations for the other speakers.

While I wouldn't consider any Klipsch line to have very good performance for its given price point, with your budget especially I think it would be a shame not to look at Salk Sound or Ascend Acoustics, both of which are internet direct boutique builders whose designs were generated by some of the most distinguished guys in the DIY community. The performance to price ratio will be in a different league than Klipsch, and I can speak for the build quality of Salk speakers from personal experience - they are furniture or musical instrument grade and the veneer options are outrageous. You really have to see a set to understand.

If you're bold and want to go DIY, you can also pretty much find the plans for the Songtowers and a few other Salk/Ellis speakers if you look up Paul Kittinger (crossover/speaker designer) on diyAudio. You could probably even make a pair for ~$500 with veneer, but it costs time and effort to DIY.

I would also say that considerations in matching speakers become negligible as speaker performance (minimized nonlinear distortion) goes higher. For reference, my current setup is a Salk Songbird L&R, a self built Zaph Audio (DIY guru) ZD5 as center, KEF Q100 rear set, and self built 12" peerless xls sealed sub. The ZD5 basically sounds like another Songbird that is just marginally tighter and cleaner, and for reference, it blows my former Monitor Audio RX silver center out of the water for a similar cost.

Also in addition to SVS, you should look into Rythmik subs. They use a servo feedback system to reduce nonlinear distortion and have gotten very high praise. You can either DIY them, or buy finished ones off the shelf. Jim Salk also makes cabinets for them and sells that as the Song Sub or something like that.

Best of luck!

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Oklahomie likes this.
Amalcho is offline  
post #23 of 43 Old 08-17-2017, 09:11 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1
I couldn't resist to add a couple of photos from the end of my ZD5 build this part spring. The first picture has the completed cabinet sitting on my sub (built 1.5 years prior with the same veneer) and the second shows the speaker installed next to the songbirds.

While I'm not a very good builder and these two projects were made with modest veneers to tie in with my songbirds, I hope to show that the retail speaker manufacturers are not competitive in the style department either if you have a specific aesthetic in mind.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Amalcho is offline  
post #24 of 43 Old 08-18-2017, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oklahomie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amalcho View Post
I couldn't resist to add a couple of photos from the end of my ZD5 build this part spring. The first picture has the completed cabinet sitting on my sub (built 1.5 years prior with the same veneer) and the second shows the speaker installed next to the songbirds.

While I'm not a very good builder and these two projects were made with modest veneers to tie in with my songbirds, I hope to show that the retail speaker manufacturers are not competitive in the style department either if you have a specific aesthetic in mind.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


Those are really pretty speakers! I looked at the ascend acoustics, rhythmik audio, PSA, JTR, and the other brand you mentioned. The price to performance ratio with those brands seem to kill klipsch, at least on the sub front. Good stuff. I need to read up some more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oklahomie is offline  
post #25 of 43 Old 08-18-2017, 06:41 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: College Station, Texas
Posts: 667
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 318 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahomie View Post
So the DIYSG's, even though they seem to be more than just a Subwoofer, they would replace what would be a standalone sub? Would these types of speakers be used in tandem with RLC speakers? I know I sound silly here, but I'm not very savvy.
Well actually something like the 1099 or its BIG brother the 1899 would replace your LCR speakers. In the 1099's case they are a 3 way speaker that can dip down to 45hz, which means you could if you wanted drop the crossover point lower and get a "fuller" sound from your front stage. Realisticly you wouldn't used them all the way down to 45hz, as that is the subwoofers area, but on the other hand being that they are rated at a sensitivity of 99db/m you can run them with pretty much any AVR you want and they can hit refrence levels easily. Speaker designs like that are geared towards home theater use, light weight more PA style speakers. Bang for your buck wise they are kind of hard to beat, for what about $1300 for the 1099's to use as your LCR they are cheaper than the Klipsch left and right you were looking at. They are very much well liked around here @Rowan611 uses the 1299, the 1099's big brother but same essential setup and I bet they could give you a good idea. You could also check this thread Jumping into DIY where they were building the 893's, the 1099's little brother, they have some REW charts in there. And of course take a little look around the DIY section of the forums. Personally i think its an easy way to free up extra money for other parts of the room and you would end up with more speaker than you would have otherwise. As long as you order the flat packs they are fairly easy to build the only issue would be building the crossover, but there is a member here who is will to do it for you for a small fee I beileve.
liffie420 is offline  
post #26 of 43 Old 08-18-2017, 07:33 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Rowan611's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Pella, IA
Posts: 1,039
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Liked: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahomie View Post
Good day all,

I am in the process of finalizing floor plans for a custom built house. One of my dreams has been to have a dedicated HT; so here I am! I will be working with a 26' X 18' X 10' room. Like my title says, I will have a budget of $15,000.00; this money will go towards speakers, receiver/amp, seating, projector, screen, and any ancillary support items. The builder I am partnering with will be able to add all of the fun soundproofing costs into the build price of the home; however, these are things that I will need to figure out so I can clearly describe my needs.

With that budget, and if you're willing to get your hands dirty, which it seems you are after reading your replies, I would build anything and everything you can. Speakers, subs, screen, riser, everything. You'll save a lot of money, and have a system unmatched for the cost. Contact BigMouth for his help with acoustics and building the room. EVERYTHING else is replaceable, the room must be right.

Sound Proofing Thoughts:
  • 2x6 studs with sound dampening insulated material
    green glue
    sound dampening double thick drywall

I'd contact BigMouth for this.

Screen Thoughts
I would like a large screen - as big as I can comfortable fit into the space. Currently I have a 150" AT in the design, but am not married to this. I am also not married to how it is positioned on the wall

Again, build your own. BigMouth can help here also, as I see he already seems to be.

Speaker Thoughts
I really like (from reading, and from passively hearing once) the Klipsch reference line of speakers(I do not want to slump on this):
Center: Klipsch RP-450CA $500.00
Front R/L: Klipsch RP-280FA $1600
Side Surround: Klipsch RP-250S $650
Rear Pair: Klipsch RP=280F $800.00
Rear Atmos Pair: Klipsch RP-140SA $499.99
Subs: X2 Klipsch R-115SW $1400.00

Ok, you're going with a AT screen. You DO NOT need finished speakers. All you need are 3 matching LCRs. For those I'd take some time and look at ALL of DIYSGs offerings. Personally, I love my 1299s. I had an all Klipsch setup before, and the 1299, volt8 combo obliterates my old Klipsch setup. But, if I hadn't already bought the 1299s, I would have bought the new Titan 615. There are endless options at DIYSG. Also, any crossovers can be built by mtg90 for a very reasonable amount of money. He built my three 1299 covers for $100. Your surrounds can be volt 10s, 8s, or 6s. Personally I'd do 8s for the back 4, and 6s for the 4 Atmos speakers. My volt8s sound awesome, and I don't think you need to go crazy in the surround department.

Subs....I'd build as many as you can. It's a big room, so I'd go ported, big and hide them behind your screen. Honestly, 8 VBSS will cost you about $2000 and will fill that room with crazy levels of bass, it's a mtg90 design and I really like it cost to performance ratio. And, I'm all about that. Or, buy 4 UM18s and build 4LLTs. Either way you'll far exceed anything Klipsch, or any ID company, has to offer.



Receiver Thought
Yamaha RX-A3060BL 11.2 receiver $2000

This would be a good choice. Or a Denon/Marantz. Or, get a used 7702mkII.

external Amp
Not sure on this

Personally, I like pro amps. I love having endless power to everything in my system. I would recommend taking some saving from the speakers (assuming here that you build them yourself) and invest in amps. I'd find a used 7702MkII, and buy some Crown XLS amps. They're class D, lightweight, and sound fantastic.

Projector
Optoma UHD60 4K $2000.00

Ok, this is another place you should spend more money. Look at JVC. I was blown away by the JVC I saw at the KC Theater Crawl. And, this will be my next upgrade.

Seating Thoughts
First Row X4 seats: Seatcraft Rialto front Row $1280
Second X4 seats: Seatcraft Rialto $1650
Third X4 seats: Seatcraft Rialto back row $1900

Too many rows. Like BigMouth has already said, focus on two good rows. Build a bar in the back with more seating. Either you have a big family or lots of friends. Lol. I plan on 2 rows of 3. But, 6 people is more than enough for me.


False wall
I gave myself 36" of room for speakers to be placed behind screen - and currently have the design raised 12" to be flush with the viewing stage.

If you get BigMouths help, I'm sure he'll mention this. That's a lot of room, which is good. But, you're going to have to fill the empty parts with insulation. If you visit the DIY Forum, look at some speaker build threads and you'll see what I'm talking about. Might even be some good examples here....but I don't visit this forum very often.

Lighting
Theater lighting on the side walls, and maybe some runner lighting on the floor.

Go LED. I like Lifx bulbs and light strips. But, LED either way

See my thoughts in BOLD. Try and find some local guys and go listen to their theaters. Have fun. Feel free to PM me any questions. I know there is a lot to absorb, and you're going to get a lot of different suggestions. That's the double edge sword of this place.

You don't have any other electronics listed. What are you doing for a 4k bluray player? My suggestion would be the Oppo 203 or Panny 900. I had the 900 before the 203 and it's a nice player. I just prefer Oppo. They do a better job supporting their products. And, it's very fast, much faster than the Panny was.

Also, one final thought. Stay away from speakers that use ribbons, like Salk. Simply, they are wonderful for music or lower volume listening. But, my experience is that in a theater setup, they fail. They get very, very bright and sound strained. Where, a 1099, 1299, HTM or Titan will sound effortless. Almost all of DIYSG speakers are meant for theater use, but also sound great with music. And, if you were considering Klipsch, then the horn sound doesn't bother you and I'd stick with it. Just my 2 pennies.
Oklahomie likes this.

HT: Marantz 7702mkII | Crown Amps | 1299 L/C/R | Volt 8s | THTs | 1200Ds | Panamax 5300PM | LG OLED 65B6P | Oppo UHD-203 | PS4 |
Family: Pioneer SP-SB23W | Pioneer Kuro Elite 111 | X1

Last edited by Rowan611; 08-18-2017 at 08:05 AM.
Rowan611 is offline  
post #27 of 43 Old 08-18-2017, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oklahomie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by liffie420 View Post
Well actually something like the 1099 or its BIG brother the 1899 would replace your LCR speakers. In the 1099's case they are a 3 way speaker that can dip down to 45hz, which means you could if you wanted drop the crossover point lower and get a "fuller" sound from your front stage. Realisticly you wouldn't used them all the way down to 45hz, as that is the subwoofers area, but on the other hand being that they are rated at a sensitivity of 99db/m you can run them with pretty much any AVR you want and they can hit refrence levels easily. Speaker designs like that are geared towards home theater use, light weight more PA style speakers. Bang for your buck wise they are kind of hard to beat, for what about $1300 for the 1099's to use as your LCR they are cheaper than the Klipsch left and right you were looking at. They are very much well liked around here @Rowan611 uses the 1299, the 1099's big brother but same essential setup and I bet they could give you a good idea. You could also check this thread Jumping into DIY where they were building the 893's, the 1099's little brother, they have some REW charts in there. And of course take a little look around the DIY section of the forums. Personally i think its an easy way to free up extra money for other parts of the room and you would end up with more speaker than you would have otherwise. As long as you order the flat packs they are fairly easy to build the only issue would be building the crossover, but there is a member here who is will to do it for you for a small fee I beileve.
Liffie, thank you for the explanation! It makes much more sense now after reading this and doing some more research. Definitely can see where the cost savings can be realized by DIY'ing the speakers. I need to continue reading, ask more silly questions, and connect the dots. It's slowly coming together in my mind.
Oklahomie is offline  
post #28 of 43 Old 08-18-2017, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oklahomie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowan611 View Post
See my thoughts in BOLD. Try and find some local guys and go listen to their theaters. Have fun. Feel free to PM me any questions. I know there is a lot to absorb, and you're going to get a lot of different suggestions. That's the double edge sword of this place.

You don't have any other electronics listed. What are you doing for a 4k bluray player? My suggestion would be the Oppo 203 or Panny 900. I had the 900 before the 203 and it's a nice player. I just prefer Oppo. They do a better job supporting their products. And, it's very fast, much faster than the Panny was.

Also, one final thought. Stay away from speakers that use ribbons, like Salk. Simply, they are wonderful for music or lower volume listening. But, my experience is that in a theater setup, they fail. They get very, very bright and sound strained. Where, a 1099, 1299, HTM or Titan will sound effortless. Almost all of DIYSG speakers are meant for theater use, but also sound great with music. And, if you were considering Klipsch, then the horn sound doesn't bother you and I'd stick with it. Just my 2 pennies.
Rowan, first off, thank you for spending the time to read my thread and provide your feedback. In the short time that I've been active, I have already received wonderful help and guidance. Some thoughts in response to your post:

Speakers
I definitely have re-tuned my focus to the DIY speaker path, as I realize how much further my $ will take me. Your point on the unfinished speakers behind the AT screen - spot on. I'm not certain whether the 1299's or the Titan 615's would be best for the space I have planned. Question: How much do you think the 1299's would be if I ran those for LCR after it's all said and done?

Definitely am liking the Volt's - wouldn't cost but 10 dollars more for the 10", but even the 8" like you suggested would be great for the rear and sides, then the 6" for the atmos presence speakers.

Now for the subs, I really like your thought about DIY'ing this. I think this is one area where I can realize insane gains by DIY'ing. Question: What do you think about the Stereo Integrity HT-18 V2 18"? (runs for $160.00) These look like solid options. What I am not certain about, however, is the enclosure design if I were to use this model. I know DIYSG has 18" flat pack's that I could use that run $200.00 per pack. Now, that puts a solid 18" HT woofer at $360.00 (not bad if you ask me), and there would be some level of support for that enclosure since the DIYSG has a presence in the forums. I'm not an elite craftsman, so this could work for me...... For the price of one high end SVS 16" ported woofer, I could build 8 of these and have a hell of a lot more output, and maybe could piss my future neighbors off even . Then of course, I would need an amp(s) to drive them.

Projector
I need to look JVC's like you mentioned.

Soundproofing
You've been the second or third person to suggest BigMouth for help in this category, so I will probably look at seeking guidance there.

Seating
I think I've re-adjusted my expectations based off more reading and suggestions that for my room size, 2 rows is more appropriate. I can do the bar design at the back to create additional seating capacity.

Other Electronics
You are right, I didn't even mention blue ray / other media sources. I would likely have whatever 4k blue ray player that people suggest. Would obviously have a chromecast as an option, since this makes virtually every device I own an easily stream-able option to the HT, maybe a HTPC.

Budget Blabber
$15K is a lot of money, but I know how fast it can be used up with this type of activity. I think the DIY speakers will help the project go much further than using mainstream company speakers. I want the hit the ball out of the park with the speakers, and have friends and family always wanting to "stay longer" and enjoy "bonding time" . I know sound proofing is paramount and very expensive, but I'm not making it the pinnacle of my budget concerns, because it's going to be handled outside of the HT budget. Once I can decide what speakers I want, I can work back and determine what supporting components will be needing to make it work.

Feedback and Opinions
You are absolutely right, I have already received many different opinions - all of which are great. I always enjoying hearing and reading other's experiences. If other people are viewing this - feel free to chime in and share your experiences and opinions. I am not easily offended, so if there is an idea I mentioned, or something I say, feel free to share your thoughts (positive or negative).
Oklahomie is offline  
post #29 of 43 Old 08-18-2017, 06:25 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowan611 View Post
Stay away from speakers that use ribbons, like Salk. Simply, they are wonderful for music or lower volume listening. But, my experience is that in a theater setup, they fail. They get very, very bright and sound strained. Where, a 1099, 1299, HTM or Titan will sound effortless. Almost all of DIYSG speakers are meant for theater use, but also sound great with music.
I want to clarify that while Salk uses ribbons in some of the "supercharged" and flashy designs, most if not all designs have dome tweeter options, many by default. I definitely agree to avoid ribbons, but not because they play X better than X, which is hard to justify IMO. Most are just measurably worse than much cheaper good dome tweeters like the vifa xt25. This is well documented on John Krutke's Zaph Audio site, where there are published CSD and harmonic distortion measurements of a broad selection of DIY drivers.

I would also argue that there isn't any difference between playing HT or music. A speaker doesn't discriminate between an explosion and a violin and should be able to reproduce both with acceptable distortion.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Amalcho is offline  
post #30 of 43 Old 08-18-2017, 06:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Rowan611's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Pella, IA
Posts: 1,039
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Liked: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amalcho View Post
I would also argue that there isn't any difference between playing HT or music. A speaker doesn't discriminate between an explosion and a violin and should be able to reproduce both with acceptable distortion.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
I never said there was. I just said they were meant for HT use, I never said they couldn't reproduce music as well as they perform in a HT. I listen to music on my 1299s all the time, and they excel at it.

HT: Marantz 7702mkII | Crown Amps | 1299 L/C/R | Volt 8s | THTs | 1200Ds | Panamax 5300PM | LG OLED 65B6P | Oppo UHD-203 | PS4 |
Family: Pioneer SP-SB23W | Pioneer Kuro Elite 111 | X1
Rowan611 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off