Fortress Of Amplitude - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 30 Old 08-31-2017, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Fortress Of Amplitude

I know, strictly speaking it's a media room not a dedicated HT room. However my areas of concern align more with what I see here than the general media room forum.

This is a project I was not going to tackle any time soon. I have been working relentlessly on home renovation on my old rancher for too long and was looking forward to a well needed break from it. However my hand has been forced. In the height of summer the basement is too hot and humid to be comfortable, so I want to install a ductless mini split AC/heat pump. However there is little point installing one in a room that is needs to be redone in the near future, so might as well tackle it over this coming winter.

The goals of the project are:

- Better, quieter HVAC. There is no air conditioning since I removed a crudely installed window unit. The noise from a portable dehumidifier does not help. Air quality not the greatest either.
- Soundproofing: I currently cannot use my Hifi or surround system without making the rest of the household miserable
- Better acoustics: My surround system sounds ok but the HiFi terrible
- Better lighting. Currently just two recessed lights and a couple of stand lights in the room. I'm looking for far better lighting/control
- Cable routing. It's on the floor at the moment. To include mounts/posts for 4 Atmos speakers and conduit for future upgrades.

I'm working on a pretty tight budget but plan to go the full 5/8 DD with green glue route, with IB-3 brackets to decouple most walls and whisper clips/channel the rest. The ceiling will be clips/channel. I really wish I could have made my room-within-a-room idea work, it would have been perfect! The door will be a standard solid core exterior door.

The original plan was to have a BenQ projector with a 90 inch screen. Along the way I figured that a large HDTV would be a better choice in most respects. My surround system is a Polk sub/sat that I am happy with. I will buy four more sats for Atmos as soon as the amp is upgraded.

The build should be pretty straight forward apart from a few of issues: I was looking at Energy Recovery Ventilator systems to improve air quality but finding a way to duct them to the outside is the challenge. Ideally the cast iron radiator would be moved back about 9 inches but I'm feeling I should let sleeping dogs lie. The wall that will be behind the radiator falls directly under the I-beam which complicates decoupling. The ceiling is low so I will need to recess the clips/channels to save height. Looking forward to your input/recommendations!

P.S. As you can see I have started stripping the room bit by bit, with the drop ceiling now completely removed. The door closes off the room and does not exit to the outside.







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File Type: jpg radiator.jpg (232.4 KB, 469 views)
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Last edited by impreza276; 09-08-2017 at 06:42 PM.
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post #2 of 30 Old 08-31-2017, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 30 Old 09-05-2017, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Finally something good about lightweight drywall - it demos easily! I expected to be carting out tons of drywall as I did with my other old plaster-on-drywall rooms. It all fit into my small SUV in one load. It also easily came apart in full sheets.

I love the way the room looks with the exposed framing. Would love to keep it that way. Only problem is I hear absolutely everything that goes on in the house. One good thing about keeping the room in use is that I can look at the details and ponder over options for hours on end. A tempting option is to keep the wall framing in place and use clips/channels. However that would lose me about an inch of space and the framing is not ideally spaced anyway.

About controlling humidity in the basement, I was sure that an ERV would help but I see now that it probably won't. For those of you that use ductless mini split air conditions - Are they effective dehumidifiers? The humidity gets up to the high sixties in summer, though there is no evidence of mold anywhere.




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post #4 of 30 Old 09-05-2017, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Question: What is the recommended spacing for IB-3 brackets on a 7,1/2 ft tall wall (2x4's) holding 5/8ths type X double dryway with green glue?
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post #5 of 30 Old 09-05-2017, 10:59 AM
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At the ends, then every 48 inches, I add one over the hinge side of any framing for a door. If that leaves you small segment at the end I tighten up the spacing keeping spacing approximately equal. But check with your clip vendor for a second opinion.
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post #6 of 30 Old 09-05-2017, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, that is a huge help! I think I have enough information to start ordering and framing.

The only other concern I had was running conduit - with 2x4 framing it would not impossible to make a hole big enough in the header. My guess is to leave a gap between frame sets and run the pipe through it.
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post #7 of 30 Old 09-08-2017, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Happiness is when you discover that the previous owner did not nail his framing footers into the concrete. It's proving to be a lot easier to demo the framing than expected. Another good piece of news is that the ceiling clips and channels will fit under the joists. I calculated that they will be at the same level as the previous drop ceiling was, and that is good enough for me. Saves a whole host of complications trying to recess the clips and channels.

I have been debating whether the wall separating the HT room from the laundry should use clips and channels instead of IB-3 brackets to decouple the whole wall. In the end I determined that any noise going to the room directly above the HT ceiling would be more than that making its way through the laundry room into the room above. That saves more complication and quite a bit of money in clips.





The thought of using 2x6 studs to improve two channel bass response (at some expense of sound proofing effectiveness) was tempting but I abandoned the idea. It will be 2x4s with 24 inch spacing. I also played around with the idea of adding mass loaded vinyl behind the ceiling drywall to increase mass without adding much thickness, but it will only add about 20% over the double drywall. Probably not worth the effort.

In preparation for framing I am trying to figure out the lighting so I can pre-drill the studs with the appropriate holes. The room will have three sconces at the back. I'm trying to figure out whether it is better to have two or three zones for the recessed lights.





P.S. How can you make the attached pictures display in the post?
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File Type: jpg Setup A.jpg (32.2 KB, 433 views)
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post #8 of 30 Old 09-08-2017, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impreza276 View Post
P.S. How can you make the attached pictures display in the post?
Edit or preview a post with the attachement already uploaded, then right click the link and "copy link". Then paste it where you want the image in the post either with the IMG tag around it or by clicking the Insert Image icon at the top of your post editor window and paste the link there. When you submit, the image will appear in the post.
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post #9 of 30 Old 09-08-2017, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks dkersten!
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post #10 of 30 Old 09-18-2017, 05:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Progress is going as well as it could. The demo is almost complete and I'm currently removing the spagetti of wires for obsolete systems and services. I installed a window to replace a temporary plug and I'm currently poking a couple of 4 inch holes in the basement cinder block wall for ERV ducting. The logic is that it is better to have the ducting in place for the ERV and not use them, than skip them and find that I need them after all. It doesn't help that the HVAC condenser is on the other side of the wall where the holes are, but not much of an option there.

The A48R isolation brackets (IB3 equivalent) have checked in, as well as a couple of clamps for the I-beam. A wall needs to be built directly under the I-beam so I'm looking for solutions to secure it. That's where the clamps come in. They are designed to support 100lb boxing bags on an an I-beam and they clamp on very securely. Together with the A48R brackets I'm sure I can figure out something out that will work well. For a moment I contemplated welding the isolation brackets directly to the I beam.

As I prepare to order framing material it's becoming more apparent that the door situation needs to be ironed out first. Does anyone know of any good basic exterior doors that would work well for a HT room? I'm looking for one that can pass for your typical interior door.



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post #11 of 30 Old 09-20-2017, 04:44 AM - Thread Starter
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The Hyperloop sees the light! What a struggle - it took me a week of intensive drilling in the evenings to break through. Initially was going to pass on installing an ERV but then it occurred to me that the air the basement receives is unconditioned moisture-laden air directly from the outside anyway, so an ERV can only help matters.


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post #12 of 30 Old 09-20-2017, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by impreza276 View Post
The Hyperloop sees the light! What a struggle - it took me a week of intensive drilling in the evenings to break through. Initially was going to pass on installing an ERV but then it occurred to me that the air the basement receives is unconditioned moisture-laden air directly from the outside anyway, so an ERV can only help matters.



https://www.hilti.ca/content/hilti/W1/CA/en/services/power-tools/diamond-tools/concrete-coring/core-drills.html




^ This would have saved a ton of work drilling. ^
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post #13 of 30 Old 09-20-2017, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I'd have loved to use that core drill if it was an option. Unfortunately it was not. Very expensive to rent, if you can find one.

Apart from not being able to drill from the outside, the inside of the cinder block was not simply two hollow halves. There was plenty of internal structure that had to be chiseled away. Then they filled the voids with broken pieces of brick

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post #14 of 30 Old 09-21-2017, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Any thoughts on using this as the entry door?

Therma-Tru Benchmark Doors
6-Panel Insulating Core Right-Hand Inswing
Ready to Paint Fiberglass Prehung Entry Door
(Common: 36-in x 80-in; Actual: 37.5-in x 81.5-in)

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Therma-Tru-...1-5-in/3041218

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post #15 of 30 Old 09-21-2017, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Or this. I will have to trim the door by 1.5 inches

Masonite Decorative Glass Right-Hand Inswing Steel Primed Entry Door
(Common: 36-in x 80-in; Actual: 37.5-in x 81.5-in)

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Masonite-De...-in/1000049725
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post #16 of 30 Old 09-25-2017, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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The framing supplies are in - It's getting real!



I was planning to decouple the whole wall that the door is attached to, but I now see that there will have to be be some hard coupling to the room on the other side. Clips and channel it will be..
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post #17 of 30 Old 10-02-2017, 05:50 AM - Thread Starter
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One small step for framing.. The first piece is up! As you might have read earlier I was trying to find a way to build a decoupled wall under the center beam. My assumption was that the center beam is sacred and cannot be touched. Well, according to the building experts, poking holes in the center beam and support is common practice. In fact the most common way to attach a frame to the beam is nailing it in with a ramset gun. So a few 1/4 bolts later the top piece which will hold the brackets is in place. The center beam is surprisingly easy to drill into.

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post #18 of 30 Old 10-02-2017, 12:11 PM
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One small step for framing.. The first piece is up! As you might have read earlier I was trying to find a way to build a decoupled wall under the center beam. My assumption was that the center beam is sacred and cannot be touched. Well, according to the building experts, poking holes in the center beam and support is common practice. In fact the most common way to attach a frame to the beam is nailing it in with a ramset gun. So a few 1/4 bolts later the top piece which will hold the brackets is in place. The center beam is surprisingly easy to drill into.

So are you using the IB-3 clip to decouple the wall end support at this location?

I wish I would have known that I could drill holes into a support beam. I used a liquid nail and glued my top plate to the bottom of the beam, but I am also not decoupled. I am planing on though at some point. I have another beam where I want to do this and my do it this way instead. Are you going to have a gap and other IB-3 attached to the wood to support the top plate of your wall?

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post #19 of 30 Old 10-03-2017, 03:56 AM - Thread Starter
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So are you using the IB-3 clip to decouple the wall end support at this location?

I wish I would have known that I could drill holes into a support beam. I used a liquid nail and glued my top plate to the bottom of the beam, but I am also not decoupled. I am planing on though at some point. I have another beam where I want to do this and my do it this way instead. Are you going to have a gap and other IB-3 attached to the wood to support the top plate of your wall?
This is how I plan to support the wall. The first method is what I originally intended. The second method is what I will might go for.

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post #20 of 30 Old 10-03-2017, 04:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Just a note that the piece bolted to the center beam is a 2x6. The wall framing will be 2x8 in order to clear the center beam on each side. The drywall will rise up to just below the center beam so I will use OSB as the first layer to support it past the top framing, and to provide support for the soffit.
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post #21 of 30 Old 10-03-2017, 05:15 AM
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Even if the theater never made any more progress, it gets a pass on its name alone!

I feel your pain about drilling through concrete. I've got a 12" block foundation with stucco exterior. I think I went through about six masonry bits and destruction blades just to get a 4-inch bathroom vent out the side.
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post #22 of 30 Old 10-03-2017, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Even if the theater never made any more progress, it gets a pass on its name alone!

I feel your pain about drilling through concrete. I've got a 12" block foundation with stucco exterior. I think I went through about six masonry bits and destruction blades just to get a 4-inch bathroom vent out the side.
Yes indeed, what a pain! I used a Bosch rotary hammer and drilled round the circumference with an 18 inch bit. I hoped it would come apart with a few taps of a hammer, then sledged hammer. It wouldn't budge! I had to switch to chisel action with a chisel bit. That was way more effective.
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post #23 of 30 Old 10-03-2017, 06:43 AM
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This is how I plan to support the wall. The first method is what I originally intended. The second method is what I will might go for.

So are the clips staggered every 4' like it is called for or is just fastened on the two ends?

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Yes, there will be a bracket every 4 feet. The section is slightly less than 8 feet, so a bracket at each end and one in the middle. With the 2x8 framing the wall will be heavier than your standard 2x4 framing but the width of the frame base will do most of the work keeping the wall upright.
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post #25 of 30 Old 10-04-2017, 05:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Framing time will hopefully be this weekend. One challenge is what to do for framing around the window. The window is pretty useful and hardly any sound escapes to the outside so I would like to keep it accessible. The wall that goes against it will be decoupled so I need to find a way to decouple the window box. The ceiling will end up slightly below the top of the window and will need contouring to allow it to open. Any suggestions will be much appreciated!

What I am thinking of is attaching the window box to the framing and decoupling it from the window with a gasket of some sort. Probably foam though I am not sure if there is one that will not crumble away with time.

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post #26 of 30 Old 10-06-2017, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I am almost ready to put up the framing. The hole in the IB3 clips rubber is quite large. What kind of screws do you guys use with them, and is a washer recommend?
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post #27 of 30 Old 10-07-2017, 09:39 AM
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I am almost ready to put up the framing. The hole in the IB3 clips rubber is quite large. What kind of screws do you guys use with them, and is a washer recommend?
@sigma722 what screws did you use on the IB-3 clips?

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post #28 of 30 Old 10-20-2017, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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In case you were wondering whether the Fortress of Amplitude disappeared into the HT graveyard, it proved to be a bit too much. I hired a crew off craigslist and they will slap on conventional framing and drywall by the end of this weekend. Sorry to disappoint..
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post #29 of 30 Old 10-20-2017, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I know you didn't fall for that If you think I ought to be punished - I am at the moment! More at the end..

The door checked in this morning. A monstrous 42 inch solid core birch door that weighs 10,000 lbs. Okay, I'd say in the high 100's, if not over 200. Despite my offers of a dolly, the delivery guy threw it on his back and bruted up a long steep driveway. I could barely lift up my end when carrying it into the house, and I'm not small. Accent guy (Thanks, Big!), lunch is on me!



Framing is going on well, with about 2/3 of the room done. With the door in I can complete the rest. It has been an interesting experience framing a full room for the first time. That gap at the top - nothing a few shims cannot fix.



About that punishment: I tested my hydronic heating yesterday and water was leaking out of the steam blow-off valve. I replaced that this morning and started examining the aquastat controller which was misbehaving last year (power completely turned off, ofcourse). A few moments later a steady stream of water started running out of the boiler relief. 99 problems.. The valve is probably due for replacement.

* Update - Valve fixed* This is how I did it:

1. Panic!
2. Breath
3. Pour out a scotch - Shackleton Blended Malt Scotch Whiskey. Yum!
4. Change the small catch bowl for a big bucket. Open the valve a couple of times then ignore the problem. Browse AVSforum for an hour.
6. Fixed!
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post #30 of 30 Old 10-20-2017, 10:58 AM
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Home Theatre Heaven in Spain - V2.0 - Build thread
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