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post #1 of 18 Old 09-13-2017, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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New Build Questions on RC Channel and ATMOS setup

I am about to start the finishing components of my basement area, with an open game room and theater area. Obviously it’s not a dedicated theater room build out, but I still want to have the best sound possible, and also the best reasonably priced sound abatement possible. I have a few open questions I need answered, and would appreciate any feedback. I’m soundproofing a door at the bottom of the stairs, and the walls are all against poured concrete foundation. I plan on using resiliency channel on the whole ceiling - I don’t plan to use channels on any walls except the wall between the mech room as it will only have drywall facing the theater room. I plan to soundproof the doors the best possible, and have minimal heat runs (1 ceiling opening in game room, 1 in theater – these have flex duct with a couple of turns and then go into pretty complex ducting so hopefully this isn’t a killer to the system).

I’m planning on using Onkyo TX-RZ710 with ATMOS 5.1.2. I have an Artisan Studio55SB that I will use as soundbar for fronts and center. I will use Niles HD6R for rears, and Niles DS7FX for overhead. My questions are:

1. Does the speaker placement look ok, or am I not going to get a very good ATMOS experience with my limitations and just stick to 5.1? Overheads can move quite a bit, but my rear left is limited by the stairs and the door to the mechanical room.
2. I’m going to build boxes behind the 2 ceiling speakers and plan resiliency channel on the whole ceiling. However I want to separate the theater area and game area with cove lighting, which will have both LED strips creating the cove, and 4” shallow directional cans. So the soffit will be about 5”. I realize this cannot be attached to the joists at all to maintain my resiliency. How to attach this soffit? Can a support rail be glued to the ceiling and have the soffit face attach to that?
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post #2 of 18 Old 09-13-2017, 12:51 PM
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Put a channel directly above where the face of the soffit will be, glue and screw the support rail driving the screws through the drywall into the channel. Where the soffit is perpendicular to the channels, drive screws into channels you can hit
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post #3 of 18 Old 09-14-2017, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks BIG! Thats exactly the info I was looking for. I thought that might be the approach but I wasn't sure it was ok to put that much weight into the channel, I suppose the glue helps too.

My next question is on the ceiling ATMOS speakers. My Niles can be adjusted to throw the sound at different angles. I know Dolby suggests these should be right over the viewers head, but if I move them back so they are in the soffit, they would be 3 to 6 feet behind the viewers head in the ceiling, while the rears are going to be 7-10 feet behind in the wall. Would this still be almost as effective? It would be much easeir and aesthetically pleasing to have them in the soffit.
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post #4 of 18 Old 09-14-2017, 08:57 AM
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each clip is intended for 30 lbs. you can think about the extra hanging weight of the soffit and add a few extra clips, like every 36 inches instead of 48 OC. Remember the bottom is supported 1/2 by a support rail on the wall.
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post #5 of 18 Old 09-14-2017, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Jeff: Given that I haven't framed the soffit or put in the clips yet, is it a better solution to use all backer boxes and just frame the soffit to my joists, then clip the soffit and the ceiling, or to frame the ceiling completely sealed on clips, then add the soffit?

Thanks!
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post #6 of 18 Old 09-14-2017, 11:34 AM
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I prefer to build and isolated damped drywall bunker than build everything inside that bunker. I've done theaters without a single hole for electrical boxes, outlets or lighting.
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post #7 of 18 Old 09-23-2017, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok so I've got all my wiring done and the insulation people coming next week, with drywall at the end of the week. My remaining questions I need to figure out before they get here:

1) What gauge channel should I use? My soffits are going to be 3 ft wide by 6 inches deep - Is there 100% confidence that the channel will be able to support the weight of wood framing, or do I need to go with metal framing?

2) My lighting wiring is in place to drop through the ceiling into the soffit framing once the RC Channel and ceiling are put up, how do I get this wire down into the soffit after the ceiling drywall is up, do my drywallers normally do this as they put up the ceiling and then I just caulk the hole they made with acoustical caulk?

3) Am I reading the insulation threads right in that I want R-13 for blown in into the cieling? What kind of bat should I use for the walls - they are quoting r-11 unfaced fiberglass batts? My insulation guys says that would be about blowing in 5", my joist cavity is a total of 20" from the bottom of the subfloor to the bottom of my truss.
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post #8 of 18 Old 09-23-2017, 05:24 PM
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Safe n Sound are R13 i believe?
Not sure if that does matter.
The channel is not what carries the weight. It is the number of "shoes" - clips per meter.
The more clips the more weight you can distribute.
I had my guys double the clips on the ceiling as there will be soffits, roof "island", hushbox in wood etc.
The price of the clips was around 2 € per piece as I recall.

"If everything is under control you are just not driving fast enough"

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post #9 of 18 Old 09-23-2017, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman_Maclean View Post
Ok so I've got all my wiring done and the insulation people coming next week, with drywall at the end of the week. My remaining questions I need to figure out before they get here:

1) What gauge channel should I use? My soffits are going to be 3 ft wide by 6 inches deep - Is there 100% confidence that the channel will be able to support the weight of wood framing, or do I need to go with metal framing?
Channel should be 25 GA. if your soffit is 36 inches wide you may want to a mid span support another ladder at 18 inches, I use metal track with 2x4s for my ladder framing.

2) My lighting wiring is in place to drop through the ceiling into the soffit framing once the RC Channel and ceiling are put up, how do I get this wire down into the soffit after the ceiling drywall is up, do my drywallers normally do this as they put up the ceiling and then I just caulk the hole they made with acoustical caulk?

Imagine in your mind the most inexperienced/ignorant worker assigned to hanging your drywall. You need to expain everything 2-3 times, tell them again as they are doing it and supervise the process 100% of the time. That is if you want to hope for a perfect result. They won't have a clue what you want done with a hanging wire, nor where it should go.

3) Am I reading the insulation threads right in that I want R-13 for blown in into the cieling? What kind of bat should I use for the walls - they are quoting r-11 unfaced fiberglass batts? My insulation guys says that would be about blowing in 5", my joist cavity is a total of 20" from the bottom of the subfloor to the bottom of my truss.

who said anything about blowing in insulation? You want a minimum of r19 in the ceiling joists. r13 for 2x4 walls.
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post #10 of 18 Old 09-25-2017, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
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Ok so I'm not a very experienced builder or construction person. I get what you are saying on maybe needing a mid span support. I'm not sure what you mean by a metal track with 2x4's for framing - I assume you are saying use wood 2x4's.

I can supervise them hanging the drywall and also the foreman said he would be there to supervise to make sure they get the RC channel right since he is experienced with that and presumably the hangers aren't or aren't going to care about doing it right.

Dang if I'm not confused about the insulation too...My ceiling is full of mechanics/plumbing etc. I figured they would have to blow in to the desired R level to get any sort of decent fill. I can't imagine them getting bats up there very easily around the mechanics.....
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post #11 of 18 Old 09-25-2017, 04:48 PM
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Are you framing your soffits before or after your room is drywalled?
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post #12 of 18 Old 09-25-2017, 04:53 PM
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here is a soffit framed with metal track and 2x4s only drywall spans the bottom.

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post #13 of 18 Old 09-25-2017, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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here is a soffit framed with metal track and 2x4s only drywall spans the bottom.

Ah, this helps, I see what you are talking about now. I will be putting the soffit in after the ceiling as well. I'm doing cove lighting though, is there an easy way to do that with your ladder framing? I see how yours would weigh much less than traditional framing. Here is how they wanted to frame the cove lighting, but had me worried about weight:

Soffit with cove lighting
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post #14 of 18 Old 09-25-2017, 06:15 PM
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If you make the skin of the soffit with MDF you can extend the bottom out far enough to create a base for your cove molding, just add a decorative molding to the front edge of the cantilevered bottom piece of MDF.
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post #15 of 18 Old 09-25-2017, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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OK so I think I have the soffit's figured out thanks for the help.

Can you address the insulation question? I tried searching through the old threads on it but it doesn't seem to me there is a definitive answer on what insulation to use in the ceiling joist cavity. R-13 bat is pretty simple for all the walls, but how are they supposed to get R-19 in the ceiling, and is that the ideal amount? With all my mechanical up there I'm not sure how bats would even work, where they could easily blow in to an R-19 level - the blown in is really pretty much the same material as bats isn't it?
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post #16 of 18 Old 09-25-2017, 09:01 PM
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you can put fiberglass insulation in the joist space around the mechanicals, just cut and stuff. Blown in insulation may go up faster just be sure is isn't packed tight and can't transfer vibration from the ceiling drywall/channels to the floor above. I have no idea what insulation material your guy plans on using.
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post #17 of 18 Old 09-29-2017, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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So - I put r-13 in all my walls. My exterior basement walls are all poured concrete fully underground, with waterproofing and insulation on the exterior side. The city inspectors are saying if I have the r-13 on the inside, I need to Poly those walls (or pull the insulation out altogether on the exterior walls). I'm worried about moisture inside the cavity if I poly them (they are worried about condensation if I don't). Do I even need insulation on those exterior walls, or is the insulation in the joist cavity above sufficient? Does full insulation in the exterior walls give me any sound benefits?
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post #18 of 18 Old 09-29-2017, 01:58 PM
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You want insulation in the walls of a theater space to tame any resonances. what your inspector is saying is that they want a vapor barrier, pretty common. It is to prevent warm basement air from passing through the insulation and condensing on the cold foundation. Your exterior insulation probably does a huge part in reducing that problem. I would just put up the requested vapor barrier and build your theater as you planned. There are millions of homes with fiberglass insulated basements with vapor barriers. Just do a good job. In some counties they consider the paper backing as the vapor barrier. I'm guessing that you live in a region that gets really cold winters. Otherwise inspectors tend to be less picky about vapor barriers.
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