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post #1 of 49 Old 09-18-2017, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Cool Pub Theater Build - 29x25 - Budget $60k - HELP

Hello All,

Long time lurker here, it is nice to finally be able to start my own build thread. I am hoping to get some help from the community as I work to design the theater I have always wanted. I have loved movies for as long as I can remember, and I have always wanted an amazing setup to be able to have people over and really appreciate the films the way they are meant to be seen. When looking for a home, having the option to build a dedicated theater space was essential. Now that I own the home, it is time to begin! I have a contractor and I am also interested in some DIY if it makes sense to save some money and it is within my abilities.

The space is my 3rd floor walk up attic. My plan is to install a new HVAC that can accommodate the additional space as well as the rest of the house behind a wall built at the far end of the room. This will give me a space of about 29 ft long by 25 ft wide. There is also a 13x9 space to the left of the entrance by the stairs that I am going to put an Irish pub in. The other side of the staircase will hold an equipment closet. Please see pictures below:








I would like some advice on equipment, here is what I have purchased so far:

Speakers:
2x Klipsch 2x RF-7 II Floorstanding Speaker Black
1x RC-64 II Center
2x RP-160M Shelf
https://www.adorama.com/kprf7iiba.ht...ce=rflaid62905


What I am considering purchasing:

Speakers:
4x RSL c34 E for Atmos
https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-ceiling-speaker/

ELAC S12EQ Debut Series (I like the AutoEQ feature)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014GSEUJ8...d=KLUJZQGINT7V

Receiver:
Marantz SR7011 9.2 Channel (I like Audyssey XT32)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LPP7ZT2...d=KLUJZQGINT7V

BluRay:
OPPO UDP-203
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N6GG5XL...d=KLUJZQGINT7V

Projector:
Optoma UHD60 4K
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071P6KQZH...d=KLUJZQGINT7V

Screen:
? something about 140" diagonal in 16x9 (max size of the Optoma above)

Furniture:
Not sure about this. I have a Rooms to Go Outlet near me in Dunn, NC which sells the following chairs and sofas relatively cheap:

GARSON BLACK POWER PLUS RECLINING SOFA
https://www.roomstogo.com/product/Re...Sofa/1111454P/

GARSON BLACK POWER PLUS RECLINER
https://www.roomstogo.com/product/Re...iner/11714549/

I am thinking one reclining sofa in the front row and then the rest single recliners.

I would also like a bar/countertop in the back for overflow seating, sort of like this:



For soundproofing, I was thinking I would primarily need to do the floor, and was considering something like Kinetic Noise Control’s Roll-out Isolation Material:
http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/rim.html

Should I do anything special with the dry wall? Green glue?

Below is the theater design I was considering but with a love seat in the front row:



Ultimately I like this design, although maybe with a different color than red:



Suggestions and thoughts are welcome!

Thanks!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg theater 4.jpg (146.5 KB, 482 views)
File Type: jpg contemporary-media-room_zpsneoyectm.JPG (56.7 KB, 467 views)
File Type: jpg layout_zpsdy1zu8d3.JPG (127.8 KB, 468 views)
File Type: jpg theater 1_zpsa9jmtgia.JPG (254.6 KB, 469 views)
File Type: jpg theater 2_zpstuka54ws.JPG (204.9 KB, 467 views)
File Type: jpg theater 3_zpshdcym5dt.JPG (279.8 KB, 473 views)
File Type: jpg theater 4_zpsjciud4ix.JPG (110.6 KB, 27 views)

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post #2 of 49 Old 09-18-2017, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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post #4 of 49 Old 09-18-2017, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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post #5 of 49 Old 09-18-2017, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkineater123 View Post
Hello All,

I have a contractor and I am also interested in some DIY if it makes sense to save some money and it is within my abilities.

The space is my 3rd floor walk up attic. My plan is to install a new HVAC that can accommodate the additional space as well as the rest of the house behind a wall built at the far end of the room. This will give me a space of about 29 ft long by 25 ft wide. There is also a 13x9 space to the left of the entrance by the stairs that I am going to put an Irish pub in. The other side of the staircase will hold an equipment closet. Please see pictures below:


I would like some advice on equipment, here is what I have purchased so far:

Speakers:
2x Klipsch 2x RF-7 II Floorstanding Speaker Black
1x RC-64 II Center
2x RP-160M Shelf
Purchased on sale for $2499
https://www.adorama.com/kprf7iiba.ht...ce=rflaid62905


What I am considering purchasing:

Speakers:
4x RSL c34 E for Atmos
https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-ceiling-speaker/

ELAC S12EQ Debut Series (I like the AutoEQ feature)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014GSEUJ8...d=KLUJZQGINT7V

Receiver:
Marantz SR7011 9.2 Channel (I like Audyssey XT32)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LPP7ZT2...d=KLUJZQGINT7V
The pictures don't show up on my end, but that seems like a massive space: you may or may not (I would say you do) need a bigger subwoofer than the Elac, but regardless, you will need multiple of them. Size isn't the only thing that matters of course, but I don't think the Elac offers enough value at it's price compared to other options

Since you are open to DIY, that's where all the value will be in terms of subwoofers. You can get 2 or 4 of these and build them, you would have to buy an amp for it (two Inuke 6000 for $800): total will be around $2000 for 4 working subwoofers: and less if you can build and cut the cabinets yourself. Otherwise, these pack just requires "putting-together", very minimal work.

If you want to spare the time and effort, you can look at the 15" ported options from HSU, Ryhthmik, SVS, PSA, etc (all the Internet-Direct companies), and again try to get 2 (or more if you like bass).

Other than that, im sure other users can give advice for other parts of your plan

Denon 1612 ; Klipsch RP-160m ; Klipsch RP-250c ; Wharfedale Valdus 300 ; Emotiva Basx s12

Last edited by gygess; 09-18-2017 at 01:17 PM.
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post #6 of 49 Old 09-18-2017, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice! So you think I need two 15" ported subs? I like bass, but I am not sure my wife likes it as much as me...

Anyone else having trouble with the picture? I hate photobucket....
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post #7 of 49 Old 09-18-2017, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkineater123 View Post
Thanks for the advice! So you think I need two 15" ported subs? I like bass, but I am not sure my wife likes it as much as me...

Anyone else having trouble with the picture? I hate photobucket....
I'm sure the Elac is a nice sub, so i'm not necessarily criticizing it's capability so much as it's value. The EQ feature seems nice, but you would be able to do similar things with the DSP on the inuke with those DIY subs I linked. Just can't help but think, you could have 4 18" (sealed) subs for two of those 12" Elacs.

On a similar note, it's not so much about the 12" vs. 15" etc. For example SVS's PB-1000 is 10" but performs better than many 12" subs. But if I had to be general about it, yes, 15" would be a nice place to start for a place that big. Especially since you're starting from scratch, so you can account/plan for their larger size right from the start (rather than down the line).

It's hard to recommend anything specific unless you give a specific budget you're comfortable with setting aside for the subwoofers.
Most subs from the brands I mentioned in my previous post will be pretty hard to go wrong with, the folks here would mostly just be advising which is the best value since they all offer good performance.

Also, you haven't said if you're okay with 4 subs, or if it needs to be 2. Or any dimensions that are okay. These would help

(photos still not visible, you can try some other site)

Denon 1612 ; Klipsch RP-160m ; Klipsch RP-250c ; Wharfedale Valdus 300 ; Emotiva Basx s12
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post #8 of 49 Old 09-18-2017, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by gygess View Post

Since you are open to DIY, that's where all the value will be in terms of subwoofers. You can get 2 or 4 of these and build them, you would have to buy an amp for it (two Inuke 6000 for $800): total will be around $2000 for 4 working subwoofers: and less if you can build and cut the cabinets yourself. Otherwise, these pack just requires "putting-together", very minimal work.
I realize that I never put in the links, oops.. or maybe it was removed? What I meant when I said 2 or 4 of "these" (and everything after that) was this: parts-express(dot)com/dayton-audio-18-ultimax-subwoofer-and-cabinet-bundle--300-7099

the amp I was talking about was here, parts-express(dot)com/behringer-nu6000dsp-inuke-6000w-lightweight-power-amplifier-with-dsp--248-6710
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post #9 of 49 Old 09-19-2017, 04:05 AM
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Photobucket no longer allows linking to images, unless you pay them $300 per year!

Upload directly to AVS and then link to those images to provide full sized pics - plenty of 'How to' threads give guidance.

HTH
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post #10 of 49 Old 09-19-2017, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by UK Dreamer View Post
Photobucket no longer allows linking to images, unless you pay them $300 per year!

Upload directly to AVS and then link to those images to provide full sized pics - plenty of 'How to' threads give guidance.

HTH
Wow, thanks for the heads up! Fixed the pictures using the DIY on here, hosting on AVS works great.

Thanks again!
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post #11 of 49 Old 09-19-2017, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I realize that I never put in the links, oops.. or maybe it was removed? What I meant when I said 2 or 4 of "these" (and everything after that) was this: parts-express(dot)com/dayton-audio-18-ultimax-subwoofer-and-cabinet-bundle--300-7099

the amp I was talking about was here, parts-express(dot)com/behringer-nu6000dsp-inuke-6000w-lightweight-power-amplifier-with-dsp--248-6710
This is interesting. Thanks for the links, I need to look more into a DIY sub setup. Looks like it is pretty easy with the kits.
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post #12 of 49 Old 09-19-2017, 09:02 AM
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This is interesting. Thanks for the links, I need to look more into a DIY sub setup. Looks like it is pretty easy with the kits.
From the pictures, with the sloped walls, the space seems a little smaller than I imagined. Still considered a large room though, but the pictures help.

Again, laying a clear budget for subwoofers will help with recommendations. Also, letting us know if 4 subs is possible helps too, or if it has to be limited to 2, that will determine what is recommended too.
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post #13 of 49 Old 09-19-2017, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I can do two subs with a budget of $1500 total. Or one sub if it works in this space. That should help narrow it down a little

Last edited by pumpkineater123; 09-19-2017 at 12:43 PM.
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post #14 of 49 Old 09-19-2017, 05:22 PM
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PE123, I've seen the Optoma 60, it will be the weak link in your setup. Yes it is cheap, Yes is boasts 4K. If you can increase your budget you can do better with Sony, JVC, or Epson. If you consider this your starter projector to use only for a couple of years you might be happy. As you see more projectors and learn about performance you will want to upgrade.
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Originally Posted by pumpkineater123 View Post
I can do two subs with a budget of $1500 total. Or one sub if it works in this space. That should help narrow it down a little


Multiple subs isn't just about more output. If they are placed strategically you get smoother bass in each seat. This is especially important in large spaces. In fact to really don't right you need 3-4 and not just one of two.

A lot of guys around here are bass heads and have a ton invested in subs. You have to decide for yourself what matters most and make your compromises. Sound quality, bass, video, appearance of the room, etc. Me personally, I will happily give up some bass for better sound or better video quality. However I agree with others that a single 12" elac subwoofer is not sufficient.

As for soundproofing. I would need to know what you are doing and what your goals are. If you can build your walls on top of that mat and that mat could be extended out to the exterior walls then maybe you could just do that. In all likelihood if you really want sound isolation you will need to build it as a soundproof space. There are a ton of flanking paths I can think of it you just do the floor. Those become conduits for sound to leak downstairs. Let us know your goals and we can help.


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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
PE123, I've seen the Optoma 60, it will be the weak link in your setup. Yes it is cheap, Yes is boasts 4K. If you can increase your budget you can do better with Sony, JVC, or Epson. If you consider this your starter projector to use only for a couple of years you might be happy. As you see more projectors and learn about performance you will want to upgrade.
Hey Jeff - any particular models that you recommend for the Sony, JVC, and Epson? I was looking at Optoma UHD65....
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post #17 of 49 Old 09-19-2017, 08:19 PM
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any 12 inch sub wont cut it...my space is 30x50x14 and you will need at least 2x15's...

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5 Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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I can do two subs with a budget of $1500 total. Or one sub if it works in this space. That should help narrow it down a little
There's many 15" subs in this kind of budget, but 2 for 1500 you can just get this set and i'm sure you would be really happy with it: hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk5HPDual.html

You also mentioned you were intrigued by the EQ features of the Elac sub, and the hsu subs also offer slightly customizeable features if you're the tinkering type (albeit less sophisticated than the Elac).

You could still do two of the dayton DIY packs I linked earlier, that would come out to maybe 1200, but i'm not sure how they would compare to the hsu subs above. Not sure if 18" sealed or 15" ported is better, maybe someone else has the answer.

Denon 1612 ; Klipsch RP-160m ; Klipsch RP-250c ; Wharfedale Valdus 300 ; Emotiva Basx s12
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post #19 of 49 Old 09-20-2017, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
PE123, I've seen the Optoma 60, it will be the weak link in your setup. Yes it is cheap, Yes is boasts 4K. If you can increase your budget you can do better with Sony, JVC, or Epson. If you consider this your starter projector to use only for a couple of years you might be happy. As you see more projectors and learn about performance you will want to upgrade.
Hey Jeff, also interested in what you would recommend for a projector. What were the weak points of the Optoma 60? I thought it was getting rave reviews for the price point.

Thanks
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As for soundproofing. I would need to know what you are doing and what your goals are. If you can build your walls on top of that mat and that mat could be extended out to the exterior walls then maybe you could just do that. In all likelihood if you really want sound isolation you will need to build it as a soundproof space. There are a ton of flanking paths I can think of it you just do the floor. Those become conduits for sound to leak downstairs. Let us know your goals and we can help.
I believe putting the mat down and building the walls on top of it would work well. It does not need total isolation as I have no kids and live on about 1 acre.
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There's many 15" subs in this kind of budget, but 2 for 1500 you can just get this set and i'm sure you would be really happy with it: hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk5HPDual.html
This looks like a great setup at the price point I was hoping for, thank you for the recommendation.

The Marantz has Audyssey MultEQ XT32, which should be sufficient for calibrating the dual subs and the rest of my setup for the listening area, right?
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As per your choice for speaker Klipsch are a great speaker but if you are a little bit handy you could save a ton a money and put the savings into a good projector like the new JVCs. Look at DIY Sound Group link I have provided http://www.diysoundgroup.com/titan-s...tan-615lx.html, the reviews on the Titan 615LX are excellent and will blow the Klipsch out of the water for performance, then look at the Volts for your surrounds/Atmos. There is a huge following for the DIYSG speakers so finding a build thread is very easy. As per your screen, I am assuming or hoping you will be going with an acoustically transparent one? In your space, I would also recommend going with 4 subs, you have a very large room and I agree with what @Mpoes12 said about it's too smooth out the bass response in each seat so there are no gaps.

Anyways I look forward to this build and do not be afraid to ask questions, if you don't know just ask someone will respond.

Subscribed

Sorry I just realized you have purchased your LCRs already
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post #23 of 49 Old 09-20-2017, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkineater123 View Post
Hey Jeff, also interested in what you would recommend for a projector. What were the weak points of the Optoma 60? I thought it was getting rave reviews for the price point.

Thanks
In the same price frame as the Optoma 60 and 65 is the Epson HC4000 and the 5040UB. The advantages to me is the Epson's is a 2.10:1 powered zoom and horizontal & vertical lens shift. I have seen the 5040 and it is impressive. I have not seen the Optoma's, so I can't say to how they look. I have also seen the JVC RS420 which is about twice the cost of the Optoma's, but the blacks are really nice ion it and it has a powered zoom lens.

If you are wanting true 4K the Sony VPL-VW365ES would be the way to go, but they are in the $6000 to $8000 range in price.

The others above are 1080p that up convert somehow to 4K and are nice. Projector is about what do you want out of it and what are you going to put into it to get the best picture. I see you plan to get the Oppo 203, I would like to upgrade to 4K, but right now not in my budget. If you live in a large city see if you can find a local place that is displaying the projectors you are interested in or you could do like some of the people on here get two they like, try them out side by side and send the one back you like least.

I am sure others and Big can give you better advice. I personally like the 5040. It seems to have everything I would want in a projector IMO.

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post #24 of 49 Old 09-20-2017, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry I just realized you have purchased your LCRs already
Thanks for the advice. I bought the klipsh set for $2500 shipped, they were 50% off at adorama over the weekend. I couldn't pass up the deal

I will keep in mind the DIY for some other speakers I might need around the house.
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post #25 of 49 Old 09-20-2017, 01:41 PM
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This looks like a great setup at the price point I was hoping for, thank you for the recommendation.

The Marantz has Audyssey MultEQ XT32, which should be sufficient for calibrating the dual subs and the rest of my setup for the listening area, right?
More than sufficient, but again, you can still use the features on the sub itself such as controlling ports and what not to get a sound you like. Either way, you'll be fine.

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post #26 of 49 Old 09-20-2017, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by pumpkineater123 View Post
I believe putting the mat down and building the walls on top of it would work well. It does not need total isolation as I have no kids and live on about 1 acre.

Would you be opposed to two layers of plywood with greenglue. Doing that plus the mat on top would create a large amount of isolation through the floor. If you took measures to build the rest of the space fairly tight it might be adequate. For example if you take some effort to isolate he hvac runs and use solid core doors, I imagine it would keep a lot of sound from leaking into the rest of the house. It would also mean that if later you decide you need more, you could always put up a second layer of drywall with greenglue in the future to further soundproof the space. Since this is an attic space and we are talking about decoupling the walls and floor from the house below you would not need to go through the effort of building a room within a room or further decouple the walls. They already are decoupled.


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post #27 of 49 Old 09-20-2017, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by pumpkineater123 View Post
Thanks for the advice. I bought the klipsh set for $2500 shipped, they were 50% off at adorama over the weekend. I couldn't pass up the deal

I will keep in mind the DIY for some other speakers I might need around the house.
I think the klipsch is fine, you seem to have gotten a good deal since they were brand new.

DIY often doesn't take into account the work, effort, and care you need to put in to get a quality product. One that doesn't just sound good but also looks good. RF7's are beautiful AND perform well enough for 99% of people anyways. Be happy with your purchase and I don't think you would ever need to upgrade unless they break, or you're absolutely bored.

Denon 1612 ; Klipsch RP-160m ; Klipsch RP-250c ; Wharfedale Valdus 300 ; Emotiva Basx s12
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post #28 of 49 Old 09-20-2017, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mpoes12 View Post
Would you be opposed to two layers of plywood with greenglue.
Not at all. So there is already a plywood floor, I guess I would just need another layer with plywood on top, than the mat? Or do the mat and then two layers of plywood on top with green glue between?
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post #29 of 49 Old 10-04-2017, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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A few updates.

- Speakers and receiver are here! Now I need to find the closest dump...



- Below is a mock-up with the 135" 16:9 screen along the back wall. I will place a false wall the screen will be attached to so that the speakers can sit behind it. Cardboard on the ground is the size of the seats and places the viewer 15 feet and 21 feet from the screen. These leaves 36" between rows and with both seats fully reclined will leave 9.5" between the second row's feet and the first row's head. Back row is on a 10" riser (riser calculator suggest 10.2"). This places the screen 19" above the ground, and give the 43" tall viewer a straight view of the bottom 1/3 of the screen.



- I have decided to keep the HVAC along the same wall, but move it further down the duct to the far corner. It will be sealed off behind it's own drywall and framing before spray foam is applied as it cannot be "direct vented". Should be moving Thursday.
- I am going to place an identical wall along each long axis to create symmetry, storage space, and eliminate two of the windows from the main room.











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post #30 of 49 Old 10-04-2017, 08:29 AM
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I think you have a beautiful space to work with but I feel your screen is way to small for the room size IMO. Is that 135"d or width, you could probably go with a 150"d minimum which would give you 131"w of viewing. I would hate for you to be disappointed that you have done all this work and the screen now is too small. I would go with a taller riser to accommodate the line of sight since you have the headroom to do so. Check out Cold Water Creek Cinema Build, you don't have to do it like him at all, just that he has the space like you except the slanted ceilings, just a reference point that's all.
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