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post #1 of 18 Old 09-24-2017, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Stymingersfink's HT design and build project

I am in the process of designing my new house which will include a HT in the basement. I am doing the design and construction on my own, and I have the experience for at least the construction part. As far as the design of the HT part is concerned... well, I'm gonna need some help. So, here are a few different views of my plan. I laid out the dimensions of the room according to the golden ratio and laid out the speakers according to Dolby's setup guide. That is about the limit of my ability to get it figured out on my own.
The PDF is a view of the whole basement, and here are a few closeups of the HT.

This one has the reference lines I used to layout the angles for speaker placement.



Here is a view without the overlay.



I am in the process of figuring out where to put the equipment, and I want to refine the speaker locations. I will probably build it in stages due to budget. I will start out smallish and work up from there. I want to be sure that I preinstall all the wire that I will need to "future proof" the room as much as possible.

Right now I am looking at Klipcsh speakers, but this is an area that I don't know much about, so any tips would be appreciated. I am open to any advice that you might have for me, and thank you all in advance for your help!
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File Type: pdf New Basement.pdf (29.3 KB, 14 views)
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post #2 of 18 Old 09-24-2017, 03:00 PM
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Unless you are going for a 5.1 iteration, you need to move your backmost side speakers to your rear wall if you are going for a (9)7.1 config.

See this layout guide from Dolby for details (9.1.6):

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html

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post #3 of 18 Old 09-24-2017, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LydMekk View Post
Unless you are going for a 5.1 iteration, you need to move your backmost side speakers to your rear wall if you are going for a (9)7.1 config.

See this layout guide from Dolby for details (9.1.6):
Thanks, I followed that layout guide to place the speakers but went with the angles that they suggested. If I go with 150 degrees to the rears it puts them in the corners, and I was under the impression that is a bad thing. How far back should I move them?
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post #4 of 18 Old 09-24-2017, 03:25 PM
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Back pair at the back wall, keep minimum 50cm airspace towards your corners.
But, as your room is on the small side, not sure if just a normal 5.1 would be more than enough.
I see that you have 9.1.6 planned...maybe too much speakers in that space, IMO.
Length is good but your room is very narrow.

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Length is good but your room is very narrow.
Thank you for your help Lydmekk. I wish that I could go a bit wider, but there is a post that can't be moved that will start to intrude into the room. I tried to follow the golden ratio as closely as possible. My inexperience is becoming evident here, I went with a 9.2.6 because more is better or so i am thinking. Given those room dimensions, what would you recommend? I want the most immersive experience that I can't get, but I don't want to go overboard.
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Originally Posted by Stymingersfink View Post
Thank you for your help Lydmekk. I wish that I could go a bit wider, but there is a post that can't be moved that will start to intrude into the room. I tried to follow the golden ratio as closely as possible. My inexperience is becoming evident here, I went with a 9.2.6 because more is better or so i am thinking. Given those room dimensions, what would you recommend? I want the most immersive experience that I can't get, but I don't want to go overboard.
*most immersive experience that I can get.

I can't find how to edit my post. Is that not an option on this forum?
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post #7 of 18 Old 09-24-2017, 04:29 PM
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I like the room's proportions. The 22' is a generous length -- would have loved that for mine, but I sacrificed 3.5 feet in order to create an equipment room. I learned the value of totally isolating the gear's heat and noise.

You have some good possible options, such as putting the PJ in the fermentation room (if the door will clear it...), or that's too long a throw, could build a hush box where the hot PJ air exits/circulates in that room.

Likewise, the equipment can be in the brewery or the family room, depending on the degree of access you want. In any case, make it so you can reach the back of the gear without rolling a rack in/out, for example. If the front of the gear is to be accessible from the theater, make sure there's a door that will block noise (and lights, too).

I like the front/rear subs, and per Welti they ought to work very well. But I would leave yourself the option for 4 corner sub locations "just in case" . Might not need to do anything in your plan at the moment other than maybe provide some extra power outlets. The same signal you feed a single sub can be passively split to feed two.

As for pre-wiring for speakers, your layout is perfect -- including the rear surrounds. 7.1 works in rooms much smaller than yours, as seen in my Previous Deadwood theater. I will say there are advantages to rear corner placement, namely that it is easier to make an angled box or mount so the speakers aim correctly. None of your 4 surrounds or 4 ceiling speakers should be mounted parallel (radiating perpendicular) to their respective wall surfaces. Your columns will afford you some freedom there.

Current: Deadwood II Theater
Previous: Deadwood Atmos theater [HTOM]
SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4, MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, KEF Ci200QS surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
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post #8 of 18 Old 09-24-2017, 04:29 PM
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You need to understand what receivers/processors are capable of decoding a 9.2.6 Atmos soundtrack. To my knowledge the cheapest one almost on the market that is scheduled to ship early next year is $5K plus the cost of amplification. That might change by the time you build your theater.
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post #9 of 18 Old 09-24-2017, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
You have some good possible options, such as putting the PJ in the fermentation room (if the door will clear it...), or that's too long a throw, could build a hush box where the hot PJ air exits/circulates in that room.
My plan is to build a box for the protector to go in and then put a fan in a remote location to pull out the heat. I can duct it up in the ceiling.


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Likewise, the equipment can be in the brewery or the family room, depending on the degree of access you want. In any case, make it so you can reach the back of the gear without rolling a rack in/out, for example. If the front of the gear is to be accessible from the theater, make sure there's a door that will block noise (and lights, too).
I will post an updated plan, but I am now thinking of putting the equipment next to the bar in a cabinet. Unfortunately I haven't figured out a good way to make the back accessible but, I am a cabinetmaker and there are a lot of swanky roll out tray options available these days that would easily handle a several hundred pound load. I think I can build it so that accessing the back is a non-issue.


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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
As for pre-wiring for speakers, your layout is perfect -- including the rear surrounds. 7.1 works in rooms much smaller than yours, as seen in my previous Deadwood theater. I will say there are advantages to rear corner placement, namely that it is easier to make an angled box or mount so the speakers aim correctly. None of your 4 surrounds or 4 ceiling speakers should be mounted parallel (radiating perpendicular) to their respective wall surfaces. Your columns will afford you some freedom there.
Can I put my rear speakers in the corner? I thought that was a bad idea, but I'm not really sure where I got that from. Building some corner columns would definitely look nice and simplify the layout and aiming. I was thinking of using dipole or bipole speakers as my surrounds to avoid the parallel condition. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
You need to understand what receivers/processors are capable of decoding a 9.2.6 Atmos soundtrack. To my knowledge the cheapest one almost on the market that is scheduled to ship early next year is $5K plus the cost of amplification. That might change by the time you build your theater.
Thanks for the heads-up. As I am in the layout phase I haven't gotten to looking into equipment yet, so I didn't know that would be an issue. Truth be told the system will start out modest (i.e maybe 5.1) and then grow from there as new technologies or, more likely, money becomes available.

Here is an update on the equipment location.

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post #10 of 18 Old 09-24-2017, 05:34 PM
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My $0.02 feedback. in no particular order.

1. Make sure you have space for a rack location as Roger specifies. Makes installation of all the gear and turn-up way easier when it's all centralized with access.
2. Review AVR's for Atmos .6 implementation. As BIG said, there are not allot of choices without spending a large portion of ones budget on a setup for .6 Atmos at this time.
3. Would not recommend a sliding door to enter the HT room, as it would be difficult to seal/sound proof without allot of customization.
4. Lose the window in the HT room.
5. Double check your Atmos speaker placement once AVR family is selected.
6. Other - Bathroom - Move commode to same side as sink, along with move door on shower towards stairs wall. Reasoning.. Makes plumbing much, much easier.
7. Other - Provide 36" of clearance where electrical panel is in mechanical room, as the water heater infringes on the required clearance for NEC.
8. Have a minimum of 4 dedicated circuits into HT room. 1 - All around room electrical plugs and lights, 2 for equipment rack, 1 for subwoofers.
9. Dedicated mini-split HVAC for the HT room. Can't go wrong with this type of environmental control in a dedicated room.
10. Have fun!
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HT1.0 | HT2.0
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post #11 of 18 Old 09-24-2017, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Stymingersfink View Post
My plan is to build a box for the protector to go in and then put a fan in a remote location to pull out the heat. I can duct it up in the ceiling.
Cool. Literally.

Quote:
Can I put my rear speakers in the corner? I thought that was a bad idea, but I'm not really sure where I got that from. Building some corner columns would definitely look nice and simplify the layout and aiming.
I used rear corner locations in both of my theaters. As long as you have a room EQ system, that will take care of correcting the elevated bass and whatnot that may result.

Quote:
I was thinking of using dipole or bipole speakers as my surrounds to avoid the parallel condition. Thoughts?
Even if you plan to start with a smaller-scale system, I'd say that a 7.1 AVR will not pose a high barrier to entry, and then there's no need to worry about parallel surrounds. In any case, I have not seen any compelling reason to use dipoles or bipoles if the speakers can be aimed optimally. Even though I have 4 ceiling speakers on top of a 7.1 base, I always use the 7.1 mode unless I have either Atmos or DTS:X content. Even without the ceiling speakers running, I hear a nice bubble of surround sound including height on many occasions. It's not a second-class experience by any means.

Current: Deadwood II Theater
Previous: Deadwood Atmos theater [HTOM]
SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4, MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, KEF Ci200QS surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve 115"W x 49"H 2.35 screen
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post #12 of 18 Old 09-24-2017, 10:33 PM
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Yeah, what they said ^^
Pre-cabling for corner loading is a very good idea from Roger. It totally skipped my mind when I was looking at this last night.
I use corner placed subs myself. Much easier to tame the room modes and get even base over all seats with f.ex. 4 subs in corners.

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post #13 of 18 Old 09-25-2017, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all for the feed back and info!

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Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
My $0.02 feedback. in no particular order.

1. Make sure you have space for a rack location as Roger specifies. Makes installation of all the gear and turn-up way easier when it's all centralized with access.
2. Review AVR's for Atmos .6 implementation. As BIG said, there are not allot of choices without spending a large portion of ones budget on a setup for .6 Atmos at this time.
3. Would not recommend a sliding door to enter the HT room, as it would be difficult to seal/sound proof without allot of customization.
4. Lose the window in the HT room.
5. Double check your Atmos speaker placement once AVR family is selected.
6. Other - Bathroom - Move commode to same side as sink, along with move door on shower towards stairs wall. Reasoning.. Makes plumbing much, much easier.
7. Other - Provide 36" of clearance where electrical panel is in mechanical room, as the water heater infringes on the required clearance for NEC.
8. Have a minimum of 4 dedicated circuits into HT room. 1 - All around room electrical plugs and lights, 2 for equipment rack, 1 for subwoofers.
9. Dedicated mini-split HVAC for the HT room. Can't go wrong with this type of environmental control in a dedicated room.
10. Have fun!
1. I am pretty happy with the equipment placement next to the bar and am thinking I can rearrange things in the brewery a bit and put a door in to access the back of the rack without having to move it.
2.Sounds like my best bet is to wire for .6 and then upgrade to it when the AVR's become a little more affordable.
3.I really like the look of the slider and that is the door style throughout most of the house. I am going to be building all the doors myself so I think I can figure out a way to sound proof it.
4.Egress
5.Good Idea
6.There will be a single sewer trunk line that picks up all three drains with a vent coming up behind the shower. The only extra work will be the cold supply to the toilet which will be sex and isn't too difficult. I would rather run a little extra per than look at the toilet through the door as you come down the stairs
7. I have the req'd 36" front clearance, the WH is about 24" to the side.
8. Thanks for the heads up, I hadn't really thought about that issue yet, I will add it to the electrical plan.
9.Heat is supplied by in floor radiant and I am using a ground coupled heat exchange system for cooling the whole house. Should keep the space nice and comfy.


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I used rear corner locations in both of my theaters. As long as you have a room EQ system, that will take care of correcting the elevated bass and whatnot that may result.
So, If I build corner columns can I put a sub in the bottom and my rears above?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Even if you plan to start with a smaller-scale system, I'd say that a 7.1 AVR will not pose a high barrier to entry, and then there's no need to worry about parallel surrounds. In any case, I have not seen any compelling reason to use dipoles or bipoles if the speakers can be aimed optimally. Even though I have 4 ceiling speakers on top of a 7.1 base, I always use the 7.1 mode unless I have either Atmos or DTS:X content. Even without the ceiling speakers running, I hear a nice bubble of surround sound including height on many occasions. It's not a second-class experience by any means.
Woohoo! Thats what I'm looking for. I think I will pre-wire for an 11 speaker system and install a 7.1 then wait for the technology to upgrade to become more affordable.

Thank you for the input!
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post #14 of 18 Old 09-25-2017, 09:51 PM
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So, If I build corner columns can I put a sub in the bottom and my rears above?
Yes.

Current: Deadwood II Theater
Previous: Deadwood Atmos theater [HTOM]
SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4, MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, KEF Ci200QS surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve 115"W x 49"H 2.35 screen
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I have refined the layout a little bit, putting in rear corner columns that will contain the speaker and the sub. It would look like this:




I have been thinking a little bit about shortening the room like Roger did in order to put in an equipment room. I am installing audio in all the rooms of the house. I will also have a server that needs a home and some other stuff like that. Doing so, I would shrink the cooler and fermentation room by 6", eliminate the space behind the back row, and move the main viewing position 6" closer to the screen. If I stay with a 100" wide screen, that gives me a viewing distance of 1.32.

Here is what it would look like


I would recess the rear subs into the back wall and put the underneath the rear speakers. One thing I am not sure about is the way the font subs are pointing. I would build a 45 degree column in the corner and recess the sub halfway into it. That puts the sub firing directly at my fronts. Is that a bad thing?

I am undecided on which speakers I will use yet, but I think I would choose between Klipsch and B+W. So,:
Fronts:
Klipsch RP-280F or B+W 683-S2

Subs:
Klipsch R-110SW or B+W ASW610

Thoughts on the layout with the equipment room?
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post #16 of 18 Old 09-27-2017, 09:48 AM
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Subscribed and welcome to the forum.

On you first drawing on your post today, if you are going with just the HT rack in the brewery you might want to make the door accessible in the family room. It would be a lot easier to get to from the theater then having to walk all the way into the brewery to change a DVD or something.

Now on your second drawing that I think would work with giving up some room for the HT Equipment, server and whole house audio, but remember you will want the back seats to be off the back wall at least a foot so you aren't so close to the surrounds. Have you thought about maybe build the HT Equipment room between the Ht and bathroom? Not sure on you plans for the living room, but that would keep your theater at the length you have it and more room to move around.

I too have been toying with the idea of a sliding door and if you are not to worried about sound leaking from around it when people are in the living room or above I wouldn't think it would be a big deal. What are your plans on soundproofing? All in, a little or non? I am kind of in the middle on it. My wife is not to concerned with it and hasn't complained when I am watching a movie or sporting event in the basement and we do not have anything insulated or finished yet. She says she his me yell more then anything when I am watching the Chiefs play.

On speakers, I have older Klipsch speakers for my 5.2 system and like it, but some day would like to up grade to DIY speakers or something like JTR Speakers. You might want to also look at JBL, ELAC, Polk and others. My speakers are 22 years old and still going strong. My subs are 15" sealed subs mounted into the sides of my towers and they are set to fire at the wall in the front corner. They sound good, but will sound even better when the walls are done. I think what you have picked for you main system is good, you just may want to look at other subs then Klipsch, like SVS, PSB, HSU, Pork or even doing DIY ones. I would also go bigger then 10" as well. 12" would be a minimum for me. I was thinking of adding 18's to my system at some point. A good source to check out is. https://www.crutchfield.com/

Good luck and I hope this helps.
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Subscribed and welcome to the forum.
Thanks Ladeback, its good to be here and I am pretty excited that I am getting some good feedback.

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Have you thought about maybe build the HT Equipment room between the Ht and bathroom? Not sure on you plans for the living room, but that would keep your theater at the length you have it and more room to move around.
I am starting to play with ways to redesign that bathroom and make the area where the window is a bit wider. I want to be able to put a couch or something under the window and have a comfy hong out area. Its about 9-1/2' wide right now so it can't get too much narrower before it becomes cramped. But I think your right, if I could fit it in that corner right by the front of the theater, that would be ideal. Not sure if I will be able to work that one out and still have a decent amount of space in the family room. I don't want to turn that space into a hallway.

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I too have been toying with the idea of a sliding door and if you are not to worried about sound leaking from around it when people are in the living room or above I wouldn't think it would be a big deal. What are your plans on soundproofing?
I am lucky in that my front and right walls are both concrete with 2.25" of foam on the inside and the ceiling is a suspended concrete slab also with a minimum of 2" of from on the bottom. So, I only really need to do the back and the left wall. And since the back goes into the brewery, I'm not all that concerned about it. For the side wall I am going to use 2x6 plates and stagger 2x4 studs to decouple the two sides. On the HT side I will put (2) layers 5/8" gyp. board with Green Glue. I will blow the cavity full of cellulose insulation and put a single layer of 5/8" gyp board on the family room side. If its not enough, I will add Green Glue and another layer of gyp. board. For the door, I will build the door with a hollow core with 2 free-moving layers of MLV in the center. The door is about 2" bigger than the opening and around the edges I will use Quiet door perimeter sweep. I think this will quiet it down pretty well, and beyond that, I am not overly concerned about sound leakage into the rest of the basement.


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On speakers, I have older Klipsch speakers for my 5.2 system and like it, but some day would like to up grade to DIY speakers or something like JTR Speakers.

I just started thinking about DIY speakers. I build custom furniture and have a full shop attached to my house. The more I think about it, the more I think I would be an idiot not to build my speakers. Hmmm, I guess in addition to building a house I can add speaker design research to the list of things to do.

This is going to be a fun project!
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post #18 of 18 Old 09-27-2017, 11:54 AM
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Thanks Ladeback, its good to be here and I am pretty excited that I am getting some good feedback.



I am starting to play with ways to redesign that bathroom and make the area where the window is a bit wider. I want to be able to put a couch or something under the window and have a comfy hong out area. Its about 9-1/2' wide right now so it can't get too much narrower before it becomes cramped. But I think your right, if I could fit it in that corner right by the front of the theater, that would be ideal. Not sure if I will be able to work that one out and still have a decent amount of space in the family room. I don't want to turn that space into a hallway.



I am lucky in that my front and right walls are both concrete with 2.25" of foam on the inside and the ceiling is a suspended concrete slab also with a minimum of 2" of from on the bottom. So, I only really need to do the back and the left wall. And since the back goes into the brewery, I'm not all that concerned about it. For the side wall I am going to use 2x6 plates and stagger 2x4 studs to decouple the two sides. On the HT side I will put (2) layers 5/8" gyp. board with Green Glue. I will blow the cavity full of cellulose insulation and put a single layer of 5/8" gyp board on the family room side. If its not enough, I will add Green Glue and another layer of gyp. board. For the door, I will build the door with a hollow core with 2 free-moving layers of MLV in the center. The door is about 2" bigger than the opening and around the edges I will use Quiet door perimeter sweep. I think this will quiet it down pretty well, and beyond that, I am not overly concerned about sound leakage into the rest of the basement.





I just started thinking about DIY speakers. I build custom furniture and have a full shop attached to my house. The more I think about it, the more I think I would be an idiot not to build my speakers. Hmmm, I guess in addition to building a house I can add speaker design research to the list of things to do.

This is going to be a fun project!
I forgot about you saying you were a cabinet builder. I would check out http://www.diysoundgroup.com/

https://www.parts-express.com/cat/sp...ker-kits_286_E

They seem to be the most popular on here.

Klipsch KPS-400’s FR/FL with built in 15” 300 watt side firing subs, RC-7 Center, RS-3 Surrounds.
Integra DHC-60.5, 5- Marantz MA700 Mono Blocks, Pioneer DV-F727 301 Disk DVD CD Changer, Pioneer DVL-909 Laserdisc/DVD/CD Player, Sony PS3.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ck-cinema.html
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