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Marc Ye's Avatar Marc Ye
04:55 PM Liked: 13
post #1 of 36
07-01-2004 | Posts: 552
Joined: Jul 2003
Does this look right? I am building a D.E. theater. His specifications for the wiring of the Lutron Graphic eye as follows...

"provide plastic, high volumetric, four gang boxs at standard height for Lutron Graphic Eye. Provide one 20 amp feed from main panel directly to four gang junction box located 6" above floor. Run all switch legs from lights into junction box. From junction box to four gang box (at swith height) provide one hot leg, one neutral leg, one ground, and one conductor for each switch leg. This places all pig tails and wire nuts in the junction box and not in the four gang box for the Graphic Eye..."

I drew a diagram for better clarification.

Thanks for the help ahead of time!
LL
Larry Fine's Avatar Larry Fine
06:19 PM Liked: 13
post #2 of 36
07-01-2004 | Posts: 3,953
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No, you have a couple of things wrong. The grounds should be the green, and the neutrals should be white. Just kidding! You should include a ground to the upper box, though.

You can use two 3-conductor or three 2-condutor cables for the 6 hot leg returns between the two boxes; just use a permanent marker to re-color the white in each one.

One other clarification: the feed cable only needs to be a 12/2 also. The ground wire is never counted (except in rubber cord) when counting conductors in a cable.
BousquetP's Avatar BousquetP
01:23 PM Liked: 10
post #3 of 36
07-07-2004 | Posts: 318
Joined: Mar 2002
Larry,

If the ground for the feed cable is used to connect to the GE, what do you do with the other ground wires from the "zone" cables?
Toxarch's Avatar Toxarch
03:58 PM Liked: 12
post #4 of 36
07-07-2004 | Posts: 3,643
Joined: Feb 2002
You can connect the other ground cables to the main ground at one end and then cover the ground wires at the other end with wire nuts. DO NOT connect the extra ground wires at both ends, only at one end.
BousquetP's Avatar BousquetP
05:01 PM Liked: 10
post #5 of 36
07-07-2004 | Posts: 318
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Got it.
Larry Fine's Avatar Larry Fine
10:17 PM Liked: 13
post #6 of 36
07-07-2004 | Posts: 3,953
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Actually, all grounding conductors should be connected together everywhere they're available.
BousquetP's Avatar BousquetP
06:39 AM Liked: 10
post #7 of 36
07-08-2004 | Posts: 318
Joined: Mar 2002
OK. That does make more sense to me, but I wasn't sure.

I believe on audio cables you only connect one end of the shield.
Toxarch's Avatar Toxarch
09:09 AM Liked: 12
post #8 of 36
07-08-2004 | Posts: 3,643
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I was told by an electrician that only one ground connection should be made because it could create problems similar to a ground loop.
Larry Fine's Avatar Larry Fine
08:22 PM Liked: 13
post #9 of 36
07-08-2004 | Posts: 3,953
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Not in this case; the paths are such a low impedance (due to length and wire size) that no potential difference could be induced or produced.
vfrjim's Avatar vfrjim
09:22 PM Liked: 10
post #10 of 36
08-01-2004 | Posts: 4,479
Joined: Jun 2002
I have a question (probably a dumb one though, sorry) but if I plan on adding on a Lutron Graphic Eye in the future and I have 4 switches in a 4 gang box, will the Graphic eye over all the boxes? or should I have only 3 boxes ganged together with a double switch on one? Please be kind :)
Larry Fine's Avatar Larry Fine
10:45 PM Liked: 13
post #11 of 36
08-01-2004 | Posts: 3,953
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R4elax; the GRAFIK Eye (see: Lutron) covers a 4-gang box.
vid53's Avatar vid53
07:23 PM Liked: 10
post #12 of 36
08-03-2004 | Posts: 664
Joined: Dec 2001
I'm looking to purchase the grafik eye 2404 and it looks like I also need to buy their remote control for me to control all four zones.with my mx500.
Unless anyone has any other suggestion it looks like the setup would cost no less then 500.00. The spacer system would probably be about a 150.00 cheaper, but wouldn't you say the grafik eye is better?

Thanks
vid53
jasplat88's Avatar jasplat88
07:34 PM Liked: 10
post #13 of 36
08-03-2004 | Posts: 842
Joined: Feb 2004
Quote:
Originally posted by Larry Fine
No, you have a couple of things wrong. The grounds should be the green, and the neutrals should be white. Just kidding! You should include a ground to the upper box, though.

You can use two 3-conductor or three 2-condutor cables for the 6 hot leg returns between the two boxes; just use a permanent marker to re-color the white in each one.

One other clarification: the feed cable only needs to be a 12/2 also. The ground wire is never counted (except in rubber cord) when counting conductors in a cable.
Larry (or anyone), why would you need two 4-gang boxes.....I only mounted one (extra deep) and wasn't planning on another.....do I need to do more planning:confused: I sure hope not....I'm two days from sheetrock.

-Jason
Larry Fine's Avatar Larry Fine
07:59 PM Liked: 13
post #14 of 36
08-03-2004 | Posts: 3,953
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Jason, Marc used two boxes to reduce the conductor quantity in the single box. If it's not an issue, you're okay with one. I'd try a "dry fit" (wires tucked in, no connections yet) just to make sure.
jasplat88's Avatar jasplat88
08:19 PM Liked: 10
post #15 of 36
08-03-2004 | Posts: 842
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Thanks Larry....I got scared for a second after reading this post. I did find my Lutron GE book and according to Lutron's wiring diagram---I thought I would be ok...just needed assurance. Thanks again.

-Jason
PAP's Avatar PAP
03:42 PM Liked: 10
post #16 of 36
01-08-2005 | Posts: 2,411
Joined: Oct 1999
Bump just because I saved a link to this months ago, now wiring my own and find it very helpful. I guess I plan to use the re-color the white wire plan in order to only have 3 romex going for the hots.
adixon's Avatar adixon
12:00 AM Liked: 10
post #17 of 36
01-20-2005 | Posts: 81
Joined: Jul 2001
Okay. I think I've pretty much got it, but just wanted to clarify a few things. I tried to do the 2-box technique from Dennis, but I didn't really understand it at the time and my electrician definietly didn't understand it. I basically have two full boxes at this point because they ran a 12/3 up for EVERY leg.

Unfortunately, I need to relocate the wiring because they ended up putting it split between where my column is going. I plan on leaving the wiring in the bottom box and re-wiring to a new top box that will be inside my column.

1. What is the best way to run the cable from the bottom box up to the column? Should I just run it through some electrical conduit? This will be a little tricky as I'll need to run the wire and then slide the column in place and wire up the grafik eye.

2. It looks like I can just run 4 12/2 runs to the box. One for the hot/neutral. 3 for the 6 hots. How do I go about connecting the ground. If I read the thread correctly then I would connect all grounds in the lower box. Then that would leave me with 4 ground wires in the upper box. Do I just connect them together or do I also need to add a ground pigtail and connect to the actual ground connection on the grafik eye?

Sorry for the newbie questions, but I want to make sure I get this right when I re-wire.

Thanks,
Aaron
Toxarch's Avatar Toxarch
01:09 AM Liked: 12
post #18 of 36
01-20-2005 | Posts: 3,643
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1. You already answered the best way in part 2. The 4 12/2 romex runs should be fine. Are you running the wires to a box in the face of the column? If so, I don't think you can use romex. BX cable (the one with the spiraled aluminum conduit and stranded wire inside) could be an option.

2. I was told by an electrician that as long as the grounds are pigtailed at the bottom box, then they don't have to be pigtailed at the other end. Just use one of them to ground the GE.

Tell your electrician the following and see if he understands better:
All neutrals are bonded and all grounds are bonded in the bottom junction box. All switch legs along with one ground and the one hot leg are run from the lower juction box to the upper GE box.
V10EATR's Avatar V10EATR
12:11 PM Liked: 10
post #19 of 36
01-20-2005 | Posts: 19
Joined: Oct 2004
I am going to be wiring my Grafik Eye GRX 3106 as soon as it comes in from being special ordered so I wanted to verify that I had the correct wiring schematic in my mind. I based it off of the original post but there were some changes that were mentioned so I went ahead and drew up an updated picture to see if anyone could verify that I had the correct idea. Can anyone verify? Thanks!
LL
rmurto's Avatar rmurto
01:44 PM Liked: 10
post #20 of 36
01-20-2005 | Posts: 58
Joined: Sep 2004
Anyone ever wired up a GRX 3106 in a single box. If so, how did you wire (number of wire nuts, pig-tails, etc.)? Would love to see pictures.

Also, can CAT5E wire go into electrical switch box and still be considered in code?

Regards,
Bob
buggdog's Avatar buggdog
02:35 PM Liked: 10
post #21 of 36
01-20-2005 | Posts: 445
Joined: Dec 2001
So you have to use BX cable inbetween the two boxes if it is in a column? I wasnt aware of that. How did other people hook up their grafik eyes? I was planning on just running the single wires up to the box....I guess thats not good.
V10EATR's Avatar V10EATR
02:41 PM Liked: 10
post #22 of 36
01-20-2005 | Posts: 19
Joined: Oct 2004
I was planning on using some of the smurf tubing from Lowes as conduit for the six single hot leads between the two boxes heat shrinked on each end for the distance between the tubing and the box... Is that good enough?
buggdog's Avatar buggdog
02:44 PM Liked: 10
post #23 of 36
01-20-2005 | Posts: 445
Joined: Dec 2001
It sounds good to me...but im no electrician....hehe.

By the way...your diagram looks great. Im saving that pic...its perfect... I drew one out on paper a few months ago and it looks terrible. Good job.
Chri's Avatar Chri
03:14 PM Liked: 10
post #24 of 36
01-20-2005 | Posts: 1,131
Joined: Sep 2003
Quote:
Originally posted by V10EATR
I am going to be wiring my Grafik Eye GRX 3106 as soon as it comes in from being special ordered so I wanted to verify that I had the correct wiring schematic in my mind. I based it off of the original post but there were some changes that were mentioned so I went ahead and drew up an updated picture to see if anyone could verify that I had the correct idea. Can anyone verify? Thanks!
What type of wiring are you running between the two boxes? It looks to me like you are going to take apart the a nm cable and run the individual black wires from one to the other? How far is that run? I don't know if running individual strands through the walls is a great idea, but I'm not an electrician, so maybe it is OK to do it that way. I'm also not crazy about the idea of twisting eight wires together on one wire nut. I have a hard enough time getting a good twist with three or four. But eight? Better wrap that nut with a lot of electrical tape.

You might want to consider the way I have done it. Just add another 14-3 run for 6 zones.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...935&fullpage=1
Toxarch's Avatar Toxarch
03:54 PM Liked: 12
post #25 of 36
01-20-2005 | Posts: 3,643
Joined: Feb 2002
V10EATR, nice drawing. Looks good to me.

rmurto, the Cat5e wire can not go in the box with the GE and be up to code. You can order a special box from Lutron that will allow the Cat5e to be connected outside the box. Some people have said they just leave the Cat5e tucked below the box until after all inspections and then connect it.

And you would need a pretty deep box to wire up a 6 zone GE all in one box. I put the second box facing into the closet and the GE facing into the room.
jtymann's Avatar jtymann
04:24 PM Liked: 10
post #26 of 36
01-20-2005 | Posts: 40
Joined: Jan 2004
According to Lutron, the Low and Line voltage wiring must be separated by at least 1/4" to meet IEC requirements. I am not an electrician though.

I have a two feed Grafik Eye that I was planning on feeding with 12/3 from the panel off a two-pole 15A breaker. I have already run two of my zones with 14/2 (max of 390W w/ 6 65W bulbs) . My understanding is that half the zones are fed by one hot and half by the other, but I could be wrong.

I was thinking 14/2 to keep the bulk down since I did not have huge power requirements - realizing this limited me to 15A breakers. But two 15A circuits give me MORE than enough juice.

I had not planned to do a two box wiring. Is it "that" much better? I really don't care to look at a 4gang blank in the wall if I can avoid it.
V10EATR's Avatar V10EATR
06:06 PM Liked: 10
post #27 of 36
01-20-2005 | Posts: 19
Joined: Oct 2004
Quote:
Originally posted by Chriš
What type of wiring are you running between the two boxes? It looks to me like you are going to take apart the a nm cable and run the individual black wires from one to the other? How far is that run? I don't know if running individual strands through the walls is a great idea, but I'm not an electrician, so maybe it is OK to do it that way. I'm also not crazy about the idea of twisting eight wires together on one wire nut. I have a hard enough time getting a good twist with three or four. But eight? Better wrap that nut with a lot of electrical tape.

You might want to consider the way I have done it. Just add another 14-3 run for 6 zones.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...935&fullpage=1
I bought some 12 gauge wire and was going to run it through the smurf tubing that Lowes sells. The length is approximately 3 feet between the boxes.

As far as twisting 8 wires together, If you see the note below, you could divide the Neutral wires in half and pigtail them together. The ground will also be connected via a grounding bar.
Tweakophyte's Avatar Tweakophyte
05:51 AM Liked: 10
post #28 of 36
01-21-2005 | Posts: 3,361
Joined: Jan 2001
Anyone know how many strands of Cat5e you need to use for each signal wire (#3 & 4)? I used one strand for each one (orange, and orange/white) but I am not done. What gauge is Cat5E?

I have separate 18ga for the power, so no problems there.

Thanks,
FooManChoo's Avatar FooManChoo
08:41 AM Liked: 10
post #29 of 36
01-21-2005 | Posts: 34
Joined: Jul 2003
I had my HT wiring done without considering a GE (big mistake on hindsight). Now, I want to use a 6 zone GE (GRX-3106) if at all possible without major electrical rework. Below is an attempt to depict my exising wiring for HT lighting:

Code:
-+             4 Gang Boxes
S|             +-----------+
e|-------------|S1|S2|S3|S4|    LIGHTING CIRCUIT 1
r|15A - 14/2   +-----+-----+   |S1 - Switches rear pair of cans
v|                   |         |S2 - Switches center pair of cans
i|                   +---14/2->|S3 - Switches front pair of cans
c|                             |S4 - Switches rope lighting (soffit/steps)
e|
 |15A - 14/2   +-----------+
P|-------------|S5|S6|S7|S8|    LIGHTING CIRCUIT 2
a|             +-----+-----+   |S5 - Switches single can on stage center
n|                   |         |S6 - Switches rear pair of sconces
e|                   +---14/2->|S7 - Switches center pair of sconces
l|                             |S8 - Switches front of sconces
-+
There are two 15A circuits for all wiring using 14/2 from the service panel and also from the two standard depth 4-gang switch boxes to the actual lights. Based on this, I actually have 8 "zones". What I would like to do is combine the switched pairs of sconce lights currently using 3 switches to just use 1 switch. This will give me 6 zones for the GE.

Some questions:
1) Is what I'm asking for possible without rewiring?
2) If not, can the Spacer System be retrofitted?
3) Goes the GE require a 20A feed or can a 15A feed be used (assuming the load can be contained to some wattage limit)? If so, the wiring from the service panel to the GE can easily be switched to 12/2 and using a 20A breaker. However, it would not be easy to change the 14/2 wiring from the switches to the actual lights.
4) Would the gang boxes have to be replaced with deeper ones? (Not a biggie.)

Thanks for your suggestions!

Btw, thanks for the great diagram, V10EATR!
Chri's Avatar Chri
10:04 AM Liked: 10
post #30 of 36
01-21-2005 | Posts: 1,131
Joined: Sep 2003
Quote:
Originally posted by Tweakophyte
Anyone know how many strands of Cat5e you need to use for each signal wire (#3 & 4)? I used one strand for each one (orange, and orange/white) but I am not done. What gauge is Cat5E?
I believe cat5e contains 24 gauge wires, it comes in solid or stranded. Stranded is mainly for patch cords, you want solid. Sorry I can't answer the other part of the question.

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