the definitive Grafik Eye master thread!! - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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Old 02-03-2007, 10:38 PM
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Does anyone know if the GRX-CIR-WH accepts the advanced codes that the GRX-IRI does? I want to use a Harmony 800 pointed at a GRX-CIR-WH, but like the idea of being able to control individual zones...
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Old 02-04-2007, 08:34 AM
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This may have been discussed, but, damned if I can find it. I couldn't track down the masonry box mentioned on the first page. So, will the gangable steel boxes work? The GE instruction manual recommends a 7.9" wide box; four gangable boxes are only 7.5" wide.

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Old 02-05-2007, 07:41 AM
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Winkelmann,

Try this: http://www.hankselectric.com/item156206.ctlg

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TCIII

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Old 02-06-2007, 01:32 PM
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Thanks again Thomas. But, the box is even a smaller width than what I found locally.
FYI, Hanks might have better prices on supplies, but, their shipping prices are the highest I've ever encountered - I'm talking ten times higher. In fact ground shipping for 100' of the wire you recommended was more than double the price of the wire. No thanks Hanks.

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Old 02-06-2007, 02:46 PM
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I have found the best box is the Raco 698 for the 4 gang applications and the 697 for the 3 gang applications. Any local electrical supply haouse should have them or could get them.
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winkelmann View Post

This may have been discussed, but, damned if I can find it. I couldn't track down the masonry box mentioned on the first page. So, will the gangable steel boxes work? The GE instruction manual recommends a 7.9" wide box; four gangable boxes are only 7.5" wide.


I used gangable boxes and they worked fine. I don't think the extra room on the side would have really helped. I wish they would have been a little deeper but there was nothing I could do about that.
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Old 02-07-2007, 07:47 AM
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Winkelmann,

At $.32/ft for the wire, that means that Hanks wanted to charge you $64.00 to ground ship 100 ft of the four conductor cable?

I purchased 50 ft of the four conductor cable and one of the four gang boxes and shipping was around $12 which is about normal for UPS ground.

My GE fit just fine in the four gang wall box from Hanks and I had plenty of room for all of the wiring entering the box.

Strange!

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Old 02-07-2007, 08:38 AM
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To be exact $39.53 (S/H).

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Old 02-07-2007, 04:23 PM
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I got the 698 at Fox Electric Supply for less than $18...foxelectricsupply.com

Shipping was 7.50

Mark
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Old 02-15-2007, 01:22 AM
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Hello All,

After reading this thread, I have decided to incorporate a GRX-3506 in to my (under construction) home theater. I would like to control all my lighting through the use of a theater PC, with the Main Lobby Software. However, I am left a bit confused about how exactly to hook up my PC to the Grafik Eye. I understand that I first need to purchase a GRX-3506 seeing as how I want to control my lighting via PC and I need to control 6 zones.

What confuses me is what unit I need to go from the GE to the PC. As I read there are two options.
1.)GRX-RS232
2.)GRX-PRG

The way I'm reading it the GRX-PRG as the ability to control zones as well as scenes, where as the GRX-RS232 can only control scenes.
Additionally, the GRX-PRG has astronomic clock built in, where as the GRX-RS232 does not.

Seeing as how I don't really need to control individual zones, nor do I really have a need to use the astronomic clock I guess I would rather save the bucks. However if someone can post a list identifying what each can and can't do I may be swayed to purchase the GRX-PRG.

On the other-hand I could be Completely Wrong in my understanding of the GE.
Either way I need some help finding the right direction.

Thanks in advance for all the assistance,
Mark
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Old 02-19-2007, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

Some additions.

Lutron's Spacer system can perform most of the same basic functions as Grafik Eye, but there is little cost advantage and installations of even moderate complexity can become unwieldy. It is rumored that Lutron will soon replace or retire the Spacer system.

Other Grafik Eye series (4000, 5000, 6000, 7000) are designed for commercial or large-scale installations and should be considered for HT only by a professional.

I think the MSRP on the 3506 is $1150.

To add PC and RS-232 interfaces to the 3500 series one needs the GRX-PRG for about $800. It combines the RS-232 interface with a real-time clock so that the 3500 control unit can be programmed by a PC (Lutron has lighting control programs) and scheduled like a timer. One GRX-PRG can be used with up to 8 control units.

Grafik Eye can be ordered in many standard colors. Special finishes such as bright brass or satin chrome can be had for an extra charge and a wait of 4-8 weeks. Faceplates are replacable, but cost $80-150.

I have an opportunity to get a Lutron 4116 on clearance for less than $200. That's significantly less than I can get any of the 3000 series Lutrons for, so I'm wondering if the comment about it being for commercial applications and needing professional installation was in order to use all of the capabilities it can provide.

I'm not wanting to hook this unit up to other control units, etc. I actually just want to use 4 zones and hook up the lighting directly to the unit. Basically, I'm hoping to "dumb this unit down" to the level of a 3104. Does anyone know if that is reasonable / possible?
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Old 02-19-2007, 07:52 AM
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You do not want to purchase a 4000 series Grafik Eye. By iteself, it is useless. It needs to be connected to a remote dimming panel (GP series, etc.) for it to actually do anything.

Stick with the 3100 series.

Also, any rumors about Lutron deciding to abandon Spacer system are news to me...

Rick S
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Old 02-19-2007, 11:31 AM
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Thanks for the info, CEDIAdude. I'm glad I asked first!
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Old 02-20-2007, 02:11 PM
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Grabbed a 3104 off e-bay at a price less than I thought the 2403 would be. There was a 3106 up at nice price also. Hope there is no fine print to that deal.
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Old 02-21-2007, 07:30 AM
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dc_pilgrim,

I bought a new 3104 off of eBay a while back for about $200 off of the list price and have had no problems with it.

Though I did rig up a test fixture with four loads to check it out before I permanently installed it in my home theater.

Regards,
TCIII

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Old 02-27-2007, 10:49 AM
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They occasionally show up on eBay. There's a grey market in over-orders and replacements on commercial jobs.

mainstreetshowroom.com lists them for $580.

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Old 03-07-2007, 06:38 PM
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So, my 3106 was installed during the original construction and now I'm coming around to add the 1" insulation along the lower part of the wals and 1" batting on the top part.

Of course, the 3106 is mounted flush with the drywall, so what have others done in this case? Clearly I can cut the batting/fabric around the Eye and leave it recessed, but I'm not too keen on the looks of that.

Is there such a thing as a 4-gang extention box?

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Old 03-08-2007, 02:21 PM
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I think there are extension rings to most boxes, but which one you need depends on which box you used. Try to find that out.

Or perhaps the better part of valor is to cut into the wall and move the box forward on the stud. You don't even have to do the drywall repair well since it will be hidden.

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Old 03-08-2007, 04:02 PM
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If you used the standard deep masonry box it thould just be screwed to the stud from within the box. Turn off the power remove it from the box and take a look.

Bill
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Old 03-13-2007, 01:22 PM
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I have a 3106 and am using 4 of 6 zones for my home theater and 4 scenes. I want to add the hall lights to the system as a new zone and a new scene for them to only be on, but have already completed my wiring thus making this a "retro" install.

Currently, I have 3 switch locations for the halls lights. I have a 4-way switch located at the base of the stairs, and two 3-way switches at either end of the hall. (with the theater at one end of the hall)

Pie in the sky setup would be I could turn on the hall lights (a new scene with only the hall lights turned on) AND\\OR set the "entrance" scene in the home theater from any one of the 3 hall switches as well as from the 3106. (i.e. be able to set multiple scenes from the new wall switches)

Real world (minimum desire) would be I can turn on and off the hall lights from the 3 hall switches AND the home theater located base unit. (i.e. the wall switches would only be able to set 1 scene, and the hall lights would be that 1 scene)

Before I go and purchase items, I was hoping to get some confirmation here in regards to the best way to implement the new control\\zone and which accessories I should get to do that plan. Once I have a setup and know which accessories I need, I can then get into the age old "how to wire" questions.

Thanks all for the help!
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:16 PM
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I think you'll need to use wallstations in place of the three switches, meaning 1) you will need to drop data cable to the switch boxes, 2) remove the existing NM from switch boxes, 3) run NM directly between the 3106 and the light(s)), 4) provide auxiliary power to the data bus.

This assumes, of course, that the 3100 has a "not affected" setting for each scene's zone mapping so you can toggle the hall lights without affecting the other zones. I'll have to check to be sure. Edit: Yeah, you can. See page 8 of the GE installation manual.

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Old 03-13-2007, 02:37 PM
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If you use fixed-time events in your lighting control system, you may be affected by the recent change to Daylight Saving Time (DST). Affecteds systems are those with a real-time clock, including Homeworks, Orion, RadioRA with Chronos, and Grafik Eye with accessories GRX-PRG, GRX-IA-PRG, GRX-ATC, or GRX-AV-RS232/ATC.

Lutron has several fixes for the DST change. If you are programming (or can program) the system with software such TCWin or Liaison, the fixes involve relatively simple settings changes. If you don't use a PC, Lutron has something they can send you. Not sure what it is, but it's free.

Go to the Lutron Service and Support page and click the 'Daylight Saving Time' pulldown.

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Old 03-13-2007, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

I think you'll need to use wallstations in place of the three switches, meaning 1) you will need to drop data cable to the switch boxes, 2) remove the existing NM from switch boxes, 3) run NM directly between the 3106 and the light(s)), 4) provide auxiliary power to the data bus.

This assumes, of course, that the 3100 has a "not affected" setting for each scene's zone mapping so you can toggle the hall lights without affecting the other zones. I'll have to check to be sure. Edit: Yeah, you can. See page 8 of the GE installation manual.


So which wallstations should I consider? I am not certain which wallstation would allow me to control the theater lights from the hall switch. (IF that is even a possibility)

Also, you say "NM"...is that standard 2-#12 or is that the special Belikin cable I have read about?

I will look up page 8 as well and see if I can understand a bit more.1
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Old 03-14-2007, 06:38 AM
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NM is non metallic sheathed electrical cable. Determine wether you've been using 12 gauge or 14 gauge and get the appropiate length of 12-2 or 14-2 cable with ground to connect from the GE to the hallway light as DMF stated.

You should be able to use NTGRX-4S or the SG-4S-NL as wall stations that allow you to select scenes, obviously you would have to make your hallway light one of the scenes.
Check out the link below for the GE accesories. They also have wall stations with IR so you can select more than 4 scenes. What's fustrating is how expensive the wallstations are.

http://lutron.com/grafikeye/grx_acc.asp?s=&t=
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Old 03-14-2007, 10:17 AM
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Gotcha....NM is what I have been using. And since I powered my 3106 with 12-2, I will run a new feed using 12-2. (DMF pointed that code requirement out to me several months back)

Also, thx for clarifying which wall station I would use. I wasn't certain if I could use the 4S or needed the 4M.

So in a nutshell:

1) Run light power from the 3106 (connected to a new zone)
2) Install three new 4S's
3) Run a Belkin wire from the 3106 to each of the 3 new wall stations (not sure exactly how to connect...but I will read up on that install manual)

Thx again for the help.
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:55 PM
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'NM' : 'Romex' :: 'facial tissue' : 'Kleenex'.

You can use just about any wallstation. I'd gravitate toward the SeeTouch controls (SG-4S-) because they are internally lighted. A button label kit can be ordered as a future enhancement. If you can get a real deal on different wallstation, go for it since upgrading them is dead easy.

Daisy-chain the data cable. That's two ends into each wallstation except the last. Both pairs get hooked into the terminal plug, and the bare wires - the shield drain wires - are connected to each other but to nothing else.

The 3106 will power three wallstations or other accessories. See p.12 of the installation manual. I suggested the external supply because you have one already, don't you?

Be sure to remove the NM from the switch boxes. Leaving it there, even if it's dead, violates code. You can cut back to the sheath and just push it up into the wall.

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Old 03-15-2007, 01:31 AM
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NM is Romex...got it.

No external power supply. I don't have any other accessories at the moment...so do I need it?

The only other thing I would some day add would be a contact closure for drapes.

Oh, and I still need to get the IR function working so I don't have to get up to hit the lights.

Looking on eBay right now. 90$ for the NTGRX-4S

Gonna keep looking for any better deals.
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:50 AM
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No, you don't need it (yet). All it is is a 12VDC wall wart capable of supplying 50ma per accessory (up to 16). GRX-12DC does that, but I think list price is $75. You can get a big one at RS for $18 and cut the plug off. (The 12V lead is not rated to enter a power box, so don't bring it in to the 3106 box.) It will need a socket, most conveniently on the same circuit as the GE, and running the lead down into a wallstation box is easier while you're also running data cable. But if you will add an accessory that doesn't live in a wall, you can add the power supply from there.

I started looking into what it takes to add shade control. Definitely not as simple as adding a GRX-AV, as you'll find out. It really depends on the nature of the shade controller. Lutron's more recent stuff looks easier (and cheaper) to implement.

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Old 03-21-2007, 02:52 PM
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I was talking to Lutron this Monday (I was leaking current from one of the MUX wires to the foil shield ) when the rep mentioned that they are coming out with a new G.E. that incorporates shade control!! I didn't think to ask when, sorry.

Bill
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Old 03-23-2007, 05:14 PM
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The newer 3000s - actually been on the market for a about a year? without a number change - incorporate Sivoia shade controller as a load type. (Dang controllers are mucho expensivo, though, so I wasn't considering one (would have to get a new GE too).)

Did you find the cause of the leak? How did you figure out that was happening? What were the symptoms? I Am Curious Yellow.

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