the definitive Grafik Eye master thread!! - Page 28 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #811 of 1529 Old 12-21-2009, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulF View Post

Lutron confirms that scenes 1-4 can be dedicated to the Spacer, but I just realized after your explanation that then I can't blend a scene.

Maybe you can. Have the remote send both scene codes, e.g. 1 and 5. If you've set the GE so that 1 does nothing, and the Spacer won't understand 5, then you get both.

Quote:


still trying to figure out if a remote can control individual zones on the GE

This from the RS232 command set:
Quote:


SET CONTROL UNIT ZONE INTENSITIES
This command changes the intensity of the given zones to the new values in the given fade time. The scene
number selected will change to 17 (H from an :A command), but preset data will not be changed. Parameters
must be separated by a space (20h).
szi [Control Unit] [ft] [Int1] [Int2] [Int3] [Int4] [Int5] [Int6] [Int7] [Int8]
Control Unit - Control Unit to set zone intensities
ft - fade time
0h—3Bh = seconds (0—59 seconds)
3Ch—78h = subtract 3Bh for minutes (1—60 minutes)
Intx - intensity for zone x 0h -> 7Fh, * is don't change
Refer to Control Units, Intensity in the General Information section
for details on converting decimal values to hexadecimal values.
Example: :szi 5 A 20 20 * 20 20 20 set zones 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6 on unit at address 5 to 25%
with a 10 second fade, don't change zone 3
Note: It is not necessary to send all 8 values, but placement and order is important. Use * for zones that are to
remain the same. In the example above, zone 3 does not change, but an * is required as a placeholder to
send values for zones 4 and above.
Note: For non-Dim zones, 0 = zone off, 1 to 7F = zone on.
For shade zones 0 = STOP
1 = OPEN
2 = Close
3 = Preset 1 (Sivoia only)
4 = Preset 2 (Sivoia only)
5 = Preset 3 (Sivoia only)

As you can see, it's not a simple command. But I think you could program the remote to issue it. I don't understand the IR interface well enough to be able to state that all the (non-programming) commands can be conveyed via IR. Lutron will have to tell you that. (Tell us when you find out.)

Also look for LutronGRXIT in their tech database. It's a program that runs on a PDA to control a GE. Since the PDA would have to use the IR interface, anything it can do a programmable remote can do.

Here's some more on IR:
Quote:


All GRAFIK Eye Control Units are equipped with an IR Receiver for use with GRX-IT and
GRX-8IT handheld remote controls. The IR frequency for all GRAFIK Eye Control Units is
40.000 KHz. Any other device continuously operating in the frequency range from 30 KHz to
50 KHz may cause either no response or unwanted scene changes on the GRAFIK Eye
Control Unit(s).
Every Infrared transmitter sends a burst of data that is then received on an Infrared Receiver.
It is possible, and likely, that several Infrared Transmitters will operate at the same central
frequency. However, it is the task of the manufacturer to encrypt this data so another IR
Transmitter will not affect their equipment. In the case of the GRAFIK Eye, its encryption is
extremely complex to reduce the possibility of other IR signals affecting the product.

You now know more about RadioRA 2 than I do. (The GE 3500 analog is called "Grafik RA", not RadioRA as I said earlier. RadioRA - RA-GRXI - is an RF receiver that hooks directly into the GE control bus, bypassing the IR receiver.) I've never used RF, and have precious little experience with IR remotes.

If you're contemplating full-scale control systems, Lutron's Homeworks line is worth considering. Drop cinemascope a PM; he specializes in Homeworks.

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post #812 of 1529 Old 12-21-2009, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaTheater View Post

Which e-tailers? I have not been able to find any online.

Hank's? Main Street? I don't keep up with what the e-tailers are doing.

Or drop Dennis a PM.

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post #813 of 1529 Old 12-21-2009, 01:54 PM
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Thanks again DMF. I see what you're saying about sending both codes. I guess that would work. In my setup I could potentially hit both IR dimmers, or for one not have line of sight. So the spacer, while workable, is not the optimal solution.

I want to integrate this onto a universal remote to avoid using a separate remote for lighting. The GRX-IT and GRX-8IT would be fine for lighting only, but prefer to integrate with AV remote.

From what I read, the RA-GRXI RF receiver is compatible with the 3000 and 4000 series GEs only.

Happy to hear the GE can take a zone dim/brighten command, though too complex so I'll let the CI figure that out.

I have confirmed there are at least two possible routes to go, not including the URC/Lutron combo mentioned previously.

Option 1. All Lutron system (except remote). This would include:

- Grafik Eye QS Wireless.
- RadioRA 2 Main Repeater.
- RadioRA wall dimmers.
(you could include wall button control panels etc. if needed).
- Compatible wireless universal remote (considering URC MX-880, 880z, 980).
- Receiver for wireless remote (considering URC MSC-400).

In this setup the MSC-400 talks RS-232 to the RR2 Main Repeater. The Main Repeater talks wirelessly to the GE QS Wireless (RF) and wall dimmers. The GE QS RF can still talk to the shade and seetouch wallstations over the PELV.

Option 2. Mixed Control4/Lutron system. This would include:

- Grafik Eye QS (non RF but Wireless could be used)
- Control4 Home Controller HC-200 (or higher end if required, but more than enough for just lighting).
- Control4 Wireless wall dimmers
(you could include wall button control panels etc. if needed)
- Control4 wireless system remote (various choices based on capabilities required but not as powerful as URC).

In this setup the HC-200 talks IR to the GE QS, and talks wirelessly directly to it's own wall dimmers.

Both options should allow for merged scenes, individual control (at least of each wall dimmer and GE QS), non-LOS operation, and good expansion capabilities.
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post #814 of 1529 Old 12-21-2009, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulF View Post

From what I read, the RA-GRXI RF receiver is compatible with the 3000 and 4000 series GEs only.

That's most likely a pre-QS specification. QS uses the same command set as the 3500 series (with the possible exception of additional shade commands). The electrical interface of the command bus is identical. So RA-GRXI is equally 'compatible' with QS.
Edit: WRONG. They GRX devices are compatible with GRX control units only, not with QS.

Be sure to talk to talk to cinemascope about the larger solution.

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post #815 of 1529 Old 12-22-2009, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

It is grounded - if you install it correctly. A metal box must be tied to the ground wire, whether you're using conduit or not. Ever notice that little green screw?


Hard to say since I've never dissected one.


You need to talk to an electrician. You do not want an isolated ground circuit here. And you are mistakenly assuming that metal conduit should be the primary ground path.


Not sure I follow you. How does one soundproof an electrical box?

There is no little green screw on the electrical boxes I have. The box is tapped for a ground screw, but no ground screw came with the box. However, I agree with you that the metal box must be grounded and have done so. It's still not as good, in my opinion, as running EMT the whole way to the box, though.

I want an isolated ground for my equipment rack, and that's what I'm putting in, in accordance with NEC (of which I have the 2002 and 2005 versions). I wasn't going to put isolated anything on the GE circuit. My circuit will be inspected. I will not be consulting an electrician.

One soundproofs an electrical box in a variety of ways, including putting putty pads (used for fire typically, but used here to reduce sound transmission) around the box, paying particular attention to the wire entrances and exists. The other option is to build a box (typically, MDF and a layer of fire-resistant material) around the electrical box, and then perform certain techniques to reduce sound transmission from the box. This is a bit complex, though, due to the number of penetrations.

Any other questions?

Bob
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post #816 of 1529 Old 12-22-2009, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

There is no little green screw on the electrical boxes I have. The box is tapped for a ground screw, but no ground screw came with the box. However, I agree with you that the metal box must be grounded and have done so. It's still not as good, in my opinion, as running EMT the whole way to the box, though.

The metal boxes usually never come with the ground screws. You purchae the screws separately. They are by the wire nuts at my Home Depot.

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post #817 of 1529 Old 12-22-2009, 04:08 PM
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You're right. I had to buy the ground screws too. I forgot that. (But you would even with a Chicago-style conduit ground. The fixture needs one to ground to the box.)

Frankly, if I'm pulling Romex or a dedicated ground wire into a metal box, I'd just as soon ground the box directly. That way I don't have to worry about an EMT ground remaining intact.


ctviggen, the question was not how to soundproof an electrical box, but why?


Now, as to using an isolated ground circuit, I wasn't very clear earlier about why I think it is inappropriate for use in the home, specifically for A/V equipment. This is not a thread about electrical design so I'll simply state my position and leave it at that.

The primary justification for using an isolated ground circuit is to provide "clean power" to keep noise from passing through the equipment power supplies and affecting the output. There are two arguments against it. First, it solves a problem you simply don't have. Second, with the various external connections of an A/V setup, the dangers of ground surge are very real.

With the power supplies in good quality A/V equipment, line noise simply does not pass through the power supply. To go into this much further would require getting into power supply design which is a topic for another forum.

When you see isolated ground circuits in (e.g.) hospitals, they use orange receptacle and are clearly labeled so that the operators don't cross-connect with equipment on other circuits. Yet it's the rare A/V equipment bay that doesn't include connections to cable/dish, Ethernet, phone line, etc. Further, it's common practice to put the low-power electronics on one circuit, amps on another, subs on a third, etc.. Unless all of the interconnected equipment grounds to the same earth (ground rod), a close lightning strike can destroy the whole installation.

If you feel that you must use an isolated ground circuit, then consult with someone familiar with the dangers. Or be prepared to replace your gear.

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post #818 of 1529 Old 12-23-2009, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

That's most likely a pre-QS specification. QS uses the same command set as the 3500 series (with the possible exception of additional shade commands). The electrical interface of the command bus is identical. So RA-GRXI is equally 'compatible' with QS.

Be sure to talk to talk to cinemascope about the larger solution.

DMF, Lutron confirms the RA-GRX1 is not compatible with the QS. They say the 4 wire mux bus is not compatible between the older series and QS series GEs. I'm told GEs of different generations can't talk to each other. In addition the RA-GRXI is not compatible with RadioRA 2 which I need in order to integrate the independent dimmers with the GE QS RF.

They say the GRX-IRI will work with the QS, the PRO commands work but the instantaneous save function does not. Regardless IR into the GE will not work for me as the independent dimmers on the RadioRA 2 use RS-232 strings and therefore the remote would have to send IR and RS-232 strings at the same time. However, Lutron did confirm the RS-232 string commands for the GE QS RS-232/Ethernet interface will also be passed through by the RadioRA Main Repeater.

I thought I had reached my goal until one of the techs told me the QS mux bus is disabled when the GE QS RF is subbed off a RadioRA 2 repeater. That means no more wired SeeTouch control panels or wired shades. The SeeTouch panels can be replaced with RadioRa 2 controllers and the wired shade must become a wireless shade that works off the Main Repeater. It means I need to add a wireless receiver to the shade.

I believe I can ultimately get all the functionality, just a little more expensive and complex that I had hoped for.

I will PM cinemascope and ask him to check in on the thread.
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post #819 of 1529 Old 12-24-2009, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulF View Post

DMF, Lutron confirms the RA-GRX1 is not compatible with the QS. They say the 4 wire mux bus is not compatible between the older series and QS series GEs.

"not compatible" how? (see below)
Edit: I get it now. See post #824.

Quote:


I'm told GEs of different generations can't talk to each other.

Well, between the 3100 and 3500 the buses are electrically compatible, but the command sets are different. (3500 command set is a superset of the 3100.) I'm fairly certain that they can coordinate (talk to each other) but only in a limited way.

Quote:


They say the GRX-IRI will work with the QS,

This is where I get confused. GRX-IRI works with 3500. If it works with both 3500 and QS then the buses must be electrically identical.
Edit: They are, but that's not relevant.

Quote:


the PRO commands work but the instantaneous save function does not.

So the command sets are (partially) different. I'll have to find the spec for the QS command set.
Edit: I should have looked before replying. They are very different

Quote:


I thought I had reached my goal until one of the techs told me the QS mux bus is disabled when the GE QS RF is subbed off a RadioRA 2 repeater. That means no more wired SeeTouch control panels or wired shades. The SeeTouch panels can be replaced with RadioRa 2 controllers and the wired shade must become a wireless shade that works off the Main Repeater. It means I need to add a wireless receiver to the shade.

Or just use IR? I understand RF is more convenient, but was there a compelling reason for it over IR?

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post #820 of 1529 Old 12-24-2009, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

"not compatible" how? (see below)

Well, between the 3100 and 3500 the buses are electrically compatible, but the command sets are different. (3500 command set is a superset of the 3100.) I'm fairly certain that they can coordinate (talk to each other) but only in a limited way.

I was referring to the QS (that now uses what they refer to as the QS link) vs the 3000/4000 series. Lutron tech support is fragmented, each person only seems to have partial answers. Sometimes they conflict. That's why I am seeking input here from actual users.

Quote:
This is where I get confused. GRX-IRI works with 3500. If it works with both 3500 and QS then the buses must be electrically identical.

So the command sets are (partially) different. I'll have to find the spec for the QS command set.

Your confusion is my fault. I think what he told me was the QS accepts the PRO commands directly on the rear IR link, but it does not support the save function of the GRX-IRI.

Quote:
Or just use IR? I understand RF is more convenient, but was there a compelling reason for it over IR?

The reasons I am leaning towards RF are several.

1. One bar dimmer is not LOS from about 80% of my HT room.
2. There are some locations where the two bar dimmers would both be LOS.
3. The GE systems appear to be designed for stand-alone use. RadioRA 2 seems to be the first product to provide decent integration between a GE and other dimmers. I haven't figured out any other way to get the same level of integration and functionality.

Using IR to the GE QS is still an option. For one at least it doesn't kill the mux bus and I could use wired accessories (shade, keypads etc.). OTOH, IR to the other dimmers has the problems mentioned above.

One other nice thing about RadioRA 2 is that Lutron is about to relase a hybrid dimmer/control station. The top button controls the local dimmer, the other buttons (different ordering options available) control the other dimmers, scenes or zones (including the GE QS RF).

In my case I would need a SeeTouch control panel right next to a dimmer. With RadioRA 2 I could combine them into 1 control. In addition it will allow me to control the other bar dimmer which would otherwise have been a stand-alone.

These are the options I believe are available to me.

RadioRA 2 Main Repeater
> GE QS
> Sivoia shade (wired)
> Wired SeeTouch Control panel for Zone 1 (entry hallway) and all off control by entry door.
> Bar dimmer 1 RF (in two gang box next to Zone 1 control panel)
> Bar dimmer 2 RF

This option would require IR into the GE QS and RS-232 into the RadioRA 2, so don't know if it's even practical. Maybe I would have to do an all IR as you suggested but live with the constraints in functionality.

RadioRA 2 Main Repeater
> GE QS RF
> Sivoia shade RF (according to Lutron the FP buttons on the GE QS will still control the shade even though it is not wired directly to the GE any more)
> Hybrid Bar dimmer/control panel 1 RF (controls local dimmer, other RF bar dimmer and GE QS RF from single gang box).
> Hybrid Bar dimmer/control panel 1 RF (for control of both RF bar dimmers).

Both option would be driven by a URC front end.
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post #821 of 1529 Old 12-24-2009, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulF View Post

Lutron tech support is fragmented, each person only seems to have partial answers. Sometimes they conflict.

Yeah, I've found the same thing. But if you're persistent and ask if there's someone who might have a more complete answer, you can get to a guy who knows exactly how to answer that question. I think tech support may fall back on the engineers.

Quote:


I think what he told me was the QS accepts the PRO commands directly on the rear IR link,

That's not right. GRX-IRI lives on the data bus. It does not hook into the QS IR port. (Ultimately, the GE/QS IR section also lives on the data bus.) As I understand it, a GRX-IRI is essentially the IR section out of a GE/QS packaged for remote installation. http://www.lutron.com/techInfo/Insta...es/032133a.pdf (A better choice might be the GRX-CIR in-ceiling version, btw.)

Quote:


The reasons I am leaning towards RF are several.
1. One bar dimmer is not LOS from about 80% of my HT room.
2. There are some locations where the two bar dimmers would both be LOS.
3. The GE systems appear to be designed for stand-alone use. RadioRA 2 seems to be the first product to provide decent integration between a GE and other dimmers. I haven't figured out any other way to get the same level of integration and functionality.

GE has decent integration between GE units. You can tie up to 8 of them to the same bus. So rather than Spacer, if you use a cheap GE to control the bar zone, then an IR remote placed anywhere would pass the commands to both, and you could use SeeTouch and the QS shade controls.

You won't be able to address the two units separately via IR except using the multiple scenes trick we discussed above. A wall station in the bar area could be set to issue only the bar GE scenes and so appear to be dedicated only to that unit if you didn't want to mount the second GE for public access.

To me the two-GE IR solution seems to be simpler and cheaper than the RF solution while retaining most if not all of the functionality you want.

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post #822 of 1529 Old 12-27-2009, 07:14 AM
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Hello there, I am doing my homework prior to install a Grafik Eye QS system in my house. I hope this is the right place to post this message. Apologies if it is not.

First of, some background information : I live in France, there's very little Lutron support here, so most of the equipment will be purchased in the UK.

My home is a two-story house with a basement. My idea is to have one QS affected to each floor.
This is rather unusual for a residential but all lights in the house are triggered by relay switches at the main panel.
All rooms are equiped with push-buttons to trigger the switches. It means I have wires going from the panel to the lights throughout the house, as well as wires going from the panel to the push-buttons in every room.

This is a retrofit and I want to avoid any rewiring : physically, all QS boxes would be installed on the first floor in the electrical cabinet where all circuit breakers and relay switches are. I would discard the relay switches, replacing them by the GRX boxes.

The push-buttons switches would be replaced with SeeTouch Wallstations. I'd have maybe 2 or 3 SeeTouch connected to each QS in a hub type network.

My question is in regards to the control wiring : I am thinking of using the existing cables running from the push-buttons to the relay switches. They are standards 2,5mm2 wires : is it a problem to run low voltage over high voltage wires ? I know they don't run in the same conduits.

Any comment or suggestion regarding this projected set-up is welcome ! I don't know yet if I'm going to do this as a DIY project or if I'm going to have a professional electrician do the job...

Thanks in advance for your input.

Best.
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post #823 of 1529 Old 12-27-2009, 01:43 PM
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Impossible using the wired version of QS. Grafik Eye control cables are four wires wrapped in a shield. So you could not use SeeTouch QS (or any wired scene selection control) without re-wiring.

Edit: The wireless (RF) version of Grafik Eye QS might work. The Pico Wireless Control can be used as a wallstation and it should need only power. So no re-wiring necessary. /end edit

You might be able to do what you want* with a HomeWorks (Lutron) system where the wall stations are only wired for power and communicate with the main panel using RF (radio frequency).

Three problems: 1) We don't know much about RF or whole-house systems here; 2) France might have laws or regulations that prevent it**; 3) HomeWorks is still at the GRX level, so any QS functions you want - like shade control - might be difficult to do.


* You haven't really said what you want to accomplish. I'm assuming you want to be able to dim the lights in each room? What about shade control?

I suggest you speak to a European lighting specialist that is familiar with French and EU regulations. Start by telling him exactly what you want to accomplish, then how your house is already wired.


** Are power standards the same in France and UK? 230VAC, 50 Hz?

Bon chance!

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post #824 of 1529 Old 12-27-2009, 02:45 PM
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Okay, I've been operating under a major misconception here, and I apologize for spreading bad information. After comparing the 3500 and QS specifications, I gathered enough info to force me to call Lutron to find out what I wasn't getting, and here it is:

The old GRX series control bus protocol is different from that used on the new QS line.

The two buses are electrical identical, but the command sets are significantly different. It means you can plug GRX controls or units together with QS controls or units, but they won't be able to understand each other. They're speaking different languages.

The biggest difference is that QS commands now embed unit serial numbers in the command. (Technically, this is a good thing - I think. Each control unit and device (e.g. wallstation) is assigned a unique serial number. Under the old protocol, a wallstation command (e.g.) 'Go to Scene 5' would be heard and obeyed by all control units on the bus. Now there is the capability for the wallstation to say, 'Control Unit X Go to Scene 5' while control unit Y does nothing.)

So while I've been saying that a GRX-IRI can be used with a QS control unit, it cannot. There are in fact no remote IR control units with QS. You have to use the rear IR port for remote IR. (Note, however, that the IR commands are the same: GRX-IT remote controls work with both GRX and QS.)

Likewise, you can't replace a GRX unit in an existing installation with other GRX units with the equivalent QS unit; the entire installation must be replaced.

Again, I apologize for any confusion I might have generated.

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post #825 of 1529 Old 12-27-2009, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulF View Post

The reasons I am leaning towards RF are several.
...

After learning that there are no remote IR interfaces that work with QS, I've started to agree with you.

But if you use RF, then Spacer isn't an option for the bar. You'd pretty much have to go to a second control unit. (Or re-think your zones.)

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post #826 of 1529 Old 12-28-2009, 12:19 AM
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Thanks DMF !

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

Impossible using the wired version of QS. Grafik Eye control cables are four wires wrapped in a shield. So you could not use SeeTouch QS (or any wired scene selection control) without re-wiring.

Actually I have at least four wires going to each push-buttons box (I have several push-buttons in each box). So my question stands : will control signals work over high voltage wires ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

Edit: The wireless (RF) version of Grafik Eye QS might work. can be used as a wallstation and it should need only power. So no re-wiring necessary. /end edit

I will look into it, but I'm not sur they distribute this product in Europe yet. Plus the wireless capabilities is limited to the Pico remote control (not very aesthetic in my opinion) for controls --- and I really like the SeeTouch...
And yes, UK, France and all of Europe have the same electricity output --- not the same plugs though.

My basic goal is to have some dimming and scenes in the living room, and maybe in the master. But then, I'm thinking it would be nice to have some flexibility, say turn off the downstairs lights from upstairs. Another thought is to have a "future proof" system with the possibility in the future to add shade controls or A/V compatibilty.

I started to do some research on HomeWorks but I think it's dealer-only install solution --- and I don't even know if it's distributed here. FYI The few Lutron installers here specialize in Russian bilionaires mansions
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post #827 of 1529 Old 12-28-2009, 08:41 AM
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will control signals work over high voltage wires ?

Well, sure. They're only copper. And of course assuming that you don't actually have high voltage on them.

Here I don't think it would meet code to use what appears to be power cable for non-power use. Someday someone might try to hook it back to power...

There are two issues with doing so, though. First, you're putting a digital signal on unshielded cable. Digital puts out a fair amount of noise and might interference with other devices. (If the wires are in metal conduit then no problem.) Second, you may have to splice down to fit the connectors in the SeeTouch wallstation. Assuming the SeeTouch QS connectors are like the older SeeTouch connectors, they can take significantly bigger wires than is used in proper control cable, but power cable is pretty big. And work hardening would tend to put a lot of pressure on the connector. You may want to splice anyway.


HomeWorks is installed by professionals because it's pretty complex. They don't have a QS version of it yet; it's still at the GRX level.


Is your wiring fairly typical of Europe? It seems odd to me to have power voltage switches controlling relays that switch ... power voltage. Maybe the idea is like a patch panel, where you can re-wire what the switches switch?

No matter where you go. ... There you are.
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post #828 of 1529 Old 12-29-2009, 11:58 PM
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I think you're right about digital noise, there's a risk of reliability issues.
You're also right about local code issues...
I guess I have to figure out something else.
As for my installation, relay switches are not common in residential over here. But I believe that usually relay switches and push buttons use standard power and not low voltage.
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post #829 of 1529 Old 12-30-2009, 01:26 PM
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Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but will try. I have a retro situation in a condo where I will be using a GE-6 for the majority of the lighting switchlegs (currently running into an existing 4 gang box). Due to concrete ceilings and other restrictions, it is difficult to economically get to two existing switches located in other areas of the condo. Could I use a RA-GRX-6 as a master and RA standalone dimmers for the two additional switchlegs to effectively have an 8 zone system where the RA-GRX-6 scene buttons (or GRX-IT remote) act as the master scene buttons? I know I will need a repeater as well for the system.

Thanks for your help!
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post #830 of 1529 Old 12-30-2009, 04:29 PM
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O.k.. kind of a wiring and GE question. I just need a confirmation..

I have Zone 4 running the riser lights and I just realized - after all electrical has been run - that I forgot the wiring for the receptables in the front of the riser for the Berklines (nice oops, but my first so far, so not bad). It's going to be a double gang - 4 outlet for the front four chairs. My thought is, since it is just for the electric recline, I can just go from the GE to a riser light and then to the receptable to the next riser light, etc.

Since I haven't wired up my GE yet - drywall is coming next week - I figured, there was no down side to this.... I really don't want to run a line back to the breaker for just this receptacle and rewiring the rest would be a PITA. All of the receptacles in the room are on their own seperate breaker.

Thoughts?
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post #831 of 1529 Old 12-30-2009, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marklabelle870 View Post

O.k.. kind of a wiring and GE question. I just need a confirmation..

I have Zone 4 running the riser lights and I just realized - after all electrical has been run - that I forgot the wiring for the receptables in the front of the riser for the Berklines (nice oops, but my first so far, so not bad). It's going to be a double gang - 4 outlet for the front four chairs. My thought is, since it is just for the electric recline, I can just go from the GE to a riser light and then to the receptable to the next riser light, etc.

Since I haven't wired up my GE yet - drywall is coming next week - I figured, there was no down side to this.... I really don't want to run a line back to the breaker for just this receptacle and rewiring the rest would be a PITA. All of the receptacles in the room are on their own seperate breaker.

Thoughts?

Mark, IMHO I would be very leery of wiring up to 4 chairs on one of my GE zones. Motors are notoriously power hungry, and if for instance a Berkline power recline motor draws 3 amps, if you'd have 3 reclining at once that would be 9 amps, which is around 1/2 your total GE wattage budget.

You might want to check with Berkline to see what their current draw is on the motor. I'd just tie those two outlets into the closest 20 amp existing circuit you've already run (if you have one available).
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post #832 of 1529 Old 12-30-2009, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by fotto View Post

Mark, IMHO I would be very leery of wiring up to 4 chairs on one of my GE zones. Motors are notoriously power hungry, and if for instance a Berkline power recline motor draws 3 amps, if you'd have 3 reclining at once that would be 9 amps, which is around 1/2 your total GE wattage budget.

You might want to check with Berkline to see what their current draw is on the motor. I'd just tie those two outlets into the closest 20 amp existing circuit you've already run (if you have one available).

Shoot... you know I thought that's what someone would say. Thanks fotto. Good point...

I guess, I'll just tie into the receptacle 20 amp run. More work, more work, more work.. :-)

Mark
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post #833 of 1529 Old 12-31-2009, 05:24 AM
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Not trying to hijack, but how long are Berkline power cords?
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post #834 of 1529 Old 01-01-2010, 09:26 AM
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Could I use a RA-GRX-6 as a master and RA standalone dimmers for the two additional switchlegs ...

Sorry, I don't know. I'm not very familiar with Lutron's RF options.

If you're using a universal RF remote, perhaps you could program it to emit GE commands, then commands for your other dimmers when a single button is pushed.

No matter where you go. ... There you are.
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post #835 of 1529 Old 01-02-2010, 02:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

Sorry, I don't know. I'm not very familiar with Lutron's RF options.

If you're using a universal RF remote, perhaps you could program it to emit GE commands, then commands for your other dimmers when a single button is pushed.

Hello everyone. I may be able to help on the RF front. I am already Level II certified on the RadioRa2 platform, and have a good understanding of classic Ra and HomeWorks Wireless as well.

DMF,
there is no universal RF remote. Different devices that communicate via RF often use different frequencies for carriers, and then use proprietary communications as well. This would require one seriously complicated remote device.

PaulF,
I got the PM, and I will try to review the last couple pages so over the weekend and see if I can shed some light on the issue (all horrible puns intended).

-Rick.

Certified: Vantage InFusion, AMX A.C.E.
Lutron HomeWorks, Lutron RadioRa2 (Level 2)
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post #836 of 1529 Old 01-02-2010, 07:40 AM
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there is no universal RF remote. Different devices that communicate via RF often use different frequencies for carriers, and then use proprietary communications as well. This would require one seriously complicated remote device.

Sure there is. Not universal RF per se, but "Universal Remote Control" has a Lutron-built RF standalone dimmer set that interfaces specifically with all of it's narrow-band RF remotes. So if the OP used a URC brand remote, he could do that part of his plan eaisly.
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post #837 of 1529 Old 01-02-2010, 12:47 PM
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Thanks DMF, I appreciate your response! I guess I'll try to call Lutron..
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post #838 of 1529 Old 01-03-2010, 12:35 AM
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Happy new year everyone.

I figured out my wiring situation for my Grafikeye QS project. Now moving forward on my planning, and I have one question :
basically, I'll have 1 QS running the downstairs room and 1 QS running the upstairs room. Obviously I'd like my stairways lights to be controlled from both downstairs and upstairs SeeTouch wallstations.
How do I go about that ?
Thanks !
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post #839 of 1529 Old 01-04-2010, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
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Okay, I've been operating under a major misconception here, and I apologize for spreading bad information. After comparing the 3500 and QS specifications, I gathered enough info to force me to call Lutron to find out what I wasn't getting, and here it is:

The old GRX series control bus protocol is different from that used on the new QS line.

The two buses are electrical identical, but the command sets are significantly different. It means you can plug GRX controls or units together with QS controls or units, but they won't be able to understand each other. They're speaking different languages...

Again, I apologize for any confusion I might have generated.

No problem. This is what Lutron tech support had been telling me. At least we're getting consistent info.

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DMF,
there is no universal RF remote. Different devices that communicate via RF often use different frequencies for carriers, and then use proprietary communications as well. This would require one seriously complicated remote device.

The only thing I found was the URC/Lutron combo but that locks you into URC. You cannot buy a standard Lutron wireless dimmer nor can you use another universal remote. Control4 is similar but again you are restricted to that system and the few dimmer controls they offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinemascope View Post

PaulF,
I got the PM, and I will try to review the last couple pages so over the weekend and see if I can shed some light on the issue (all horrible puns intended).

-Rick.

Thanks, look forward to your feedback. I like the RR2 system. The only thing I find restrictive is that the mux bus is disabled when a GE QS hangs off the RR2 Main Repeater. I would have preferred my shade be wired to the QS but believe the shade can connect wirelessly (using a Lutron antenna) to the RR2 MR and still allow the buttons on the GE QS to control it. It would be nice to get confirmation of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Sure there is. Not universal RF per se, but "Universal Remote Control" has a Lutron-built RF standalone dimmer set that interfaces specifically with all of it's narrow-band RF remotes. So if the OP used a URC brand remote, he could do that part of his plan eaisly.

Yeah, that and the control4 will give you direct RF access between the remote and the RF dimmers. However both of these systems lock you in and offer few options. URCs dimmers, for example, are $150 and their system won't work with anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

After learning that there are no remote IR interfaces that work with QS, I've started to agree with you.

But if you use RF, then Spacer isn't an option for the bar. You'd pretty much have to go to a second control unit. (Or re-think your zones.)

The spacer is too restrictive so I am leaning towards the RR2/GE QS combo, or at least something that offers integration via RF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flycub View Post

Happy new year everyone.

I figured out my wiring situation for my Grafikeye QS project. Now moving forward on my planning, and I have one question :
basically, I'll have 1 QS running the downstairs room and 1 QS running the upstairs room. Obviously I'd like my stairways lights to be controlled from both downstairs and upstairs SeeTouch wallstations.
How do I go about that ?
Thanks !

You can connect the two GEs over the 4-wire mux bus. This should allow the unit that has the wallstation you are operating to talk to the other unit that has the AC control of the lights. Actually I think it's all one bus that the wallstations and GEs share. But I would still confirm with someone more knowledgeable than me
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post #840 of 1529 Old 01-06-2010, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulF View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by flycub View Post

I'll have 1 QS running the downstairs room and 1 QS running the upstairs room. Obviously I'd like my stairways lights to be controlled from both downstairs and upstairs SeeTouch wallstations.
How do I go about that ?

You can connect the two GEs over the 4-wire mux bus. This should allow the unit that has the wallstation you are operating to talk to the other unit that has the AC control of the lights. Actually I think it's all one bus that the wallstations and GEs share. But I would still confirm with someone more knowledgeable than me

Yes, everything shares the same bus.

You could have one QS control the stair light and have dedicated wall stations top and bottom to tell it to turn that zone on and off. But perhaps there's a better way. Like maybe leave it on a manual 3-way switch?

No matter where you go. ... There you are.
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