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post #451 of 3772 Old 01-01-2006, 12:18 PM
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Ruben, Why not contact one of the speaker companys like Atlantic Technology or Cambridge Soundworks, who use metal perforated grills and see if they can help with obtaining grills for use in your HT. Who knows when they see your theater build they might give you a complete 7.1 system for advertising rights!

Jim
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post #452 of 3772 Old 01-01-2006, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpa3d View Post

Ruben, Why not contact one of the speaker companys like Atlantic Technology or Cambridge Soundworks, who use metal perforated grills and see if they can help with obtaining grills for use in your HT. Who knows when they see your theater build they might give you a complete 7.1 system for advertising rights!

Jim

Thanks Jim,

Sounds like a Good Idea.

Ruben

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post #453 of 3772 Old 01-01-2006, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Well Last Night I got Some Time to try out the Perforated Screen Samples I got from Da-Lite. They Came right after the Screen I ordered came in, Figures.

One was the High Contrast Cinema Perf with a 1.1 Gain
One was a Audio Vision with a 1.0 Gain
The Other was a High Contrast Audio Vision with a 0.8 Gain.

Basically, I set up the Optoma H-79 and shot it on my Bone white Painted Textured Wall. I taped all 3 samples to the Wall. The Samples are like 6" x 6"

First thing I can Tell you, I did not like the perforations. They were real noticable to me at 8 feet from the wall on all the Samples.

The Audio Vision with a 1.0 Gain is a white screen and looked no Different than the bone white wall I was shooting on. The Sample Completely dissapeared (besides the perfs) with the painted wall when I watched a movie this proved to me I could just shoot on a Wall to get the Same results as the Screen.

The High Contrast Cinema Perf with a 1.1 Gain was a Light Grey Screen and looked no Different than the wall either, except for it having better contrast and deeper blacks. But Besides the Blacks getting Blacker everything else got darker too. So I have no idea what the point is of that.

The High Contrast Audio Vision with a 0.8 Gain, I have No Clue who would use this, It is Real Dark Grey and everything looks Black with it.

Aren't Screens suppose to work better than a regular painted wall?

I'm going to try some more samples from Stewart, Screen Research & Dazian before I open this Box up with the Da-Lite Screen. I know folks, I rushed ahead of myself and got the screen before I got the Samples and now I'm wondering. But if another Screen Fabric proves to be better than my wall and the price is resonable, I will return the Da-Lite and get the better choice.

Ruben

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post #454 of 3772 Old 01-01-2006, 02:06 PM
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Sandman - if you're going for the more modern look (which I understand, given the picture of your kitchen) then you probably will like the pores filled.

On the screen - I paid $1200+ for a Stewart screen in my first room. I built my own out of Parkland wall material for the second one (for $35) and I thought the second screen was at least as good as the first. Now - I never saw them side by side so I may have fooled myself, but I'm not sure I'm a believer in spending lots of money on a screen...

[bracing for the onslaught of screen proponents]
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post #455 of 3772 Old 01-01-2006, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebr View Post

Sandman - if you're going for the more modern look (which I understand, given the picture of your kitchen) then you probably will like the pores filled.

On the screen - I paid $1200+ for a Stewart screen in my first room. I built my own out of Parkland wall material for the second one (for $35) and I thought the second screen was at least as good as the first. Now - I never saw them side by side so I may have fooled myself, but I'm not sure I'm a believer in spending lots of money on a screen...

[bracing for the onslaught of screen proponents]

I Hope the Stewarts look better than the Wall for all the money they Get. I seen Prices of $6k and better for a 135" Stewart.

Is This like the $4k speaker wires sounding the same as Radio Shack Zip Cord Debate? Cause I remember they did a Huge A & B Blind Test with speaker cables and the biggest critics and it was a 50/50 call in the end.

Maybe this was done With screens too? Someone please help me justify this.

Ruben

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post #456 of 3772 Old 01-01-2006, 03:52 PM
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A user took some measurements with different acoustically transparent screens. Look here:
screen thread
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post #457 of 3772 Old 01-01-2006, 04:52 PM
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I'm sure I wouldn't compare different screens to things such as "Monster" wire. Especially, when you get into specialized applications (like acoustical transparency, high gain, high contrast, etc.)

I'm just saying that, for me, I can't imagine that I'll ever spend a lot of money on a screen since I am happy with the image that can be produced on cheaper materials. This time around I am going to try and go acoustically transparent as well and I plan to try to use the Dazian CCC cloth (based largely on the thread referenced above). The way I see it, if it doesn't work well enough, I don't have much invested in it and can go another way.
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post #458 of 3772 Old 01-01-2006, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebr View Post

I'm sure I wouldn't compare different screens to things such as "Monster" wire. Especially, when you get into specialized applications (like acoustical transparency, high gain, high contrast, etc.)

I'm just saying that, for me, I can't imagine that I'll ever spend a lot of money on a screen since I am happy with the image that can be produced on cheaper materials. This time around I am going to try and go acoustically transparent as well and I plan to try to use the Dazian CCC cloth (based largely on the thread referenced above). The way I see it, if it doesn't work well enough, I don't have much invested in it and can go another way.

Also, Maybe back in the Days, when projectors were not as Bright and didn't have such high Contrast Ratio's, these Screens were a necessity to HT. All I can ppersonally Say is the Screen Samples I got from Da-Lite are no better than my Painted Wall IMO.

I wonder what the Da-Lite Material Costs without the frame? Any ideas?

Ruben

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post #459 of 3772 Old 01-01-2006, 07:34 PM
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I can give you a little info on screens. I recently went to a demo held by Integrity Home Theater on screens. They had some full size screens along with 2'x3' samples.

The higher gain screens (white)would hot spot. When you walked from side to side the center was much brighter than the sides. I liked the Silver Star the best (4.0 gain). It was "plasma like" bright but obviously hot spotted the worst. General rule was if you had a narrow seating arangement and could control lighting you would be fine.

The grey screens didn't hot spot near as much and did a lot better with light. As they slowly raised the lights, the the Firehawk(grey) looked great, but the Studio Tek(1.0 gain white-this is the screen the studios use) washed out quickly. So if you have ambient light problems or like to have some lights on when the guys come over for football, the Firehawk screen excelled. Also with lights down the Firehawk looked very close to the Studiotek. So, the Firehawk was the best all around screen.

They also had one of the new black screens (really dark grey). That was very cool. With the lights all the way up it looked fantastic. There very expensive at this time but you could see all the possiblities these screens will allow. Instead of having to buy a very expensive and not so reliable 60" plasma for your living room, you could have the reliability and cost of a FP in full light situations.

Another interesting thing to think about: They would hold a white screen sample in front of the grey screen and it would light up the wall beside the screen. That made the contrast appear less. General rule again was if you have a dedicated room and could paint the walls black, you would be fine. Most people can't do dedicated rooms and the wife won't let them paint the walls black. So another vote for the grey screens.

They also recently toured the Stewart Factory. I think Stewart is the only manufacturer that has a machine that sprays the screen on the ceiling so overspray and larger particles don't fall on the screen. Also, they have the same people making all the screens so they don't know if they're making it for you or for the Emmys.

They're dealers for most brands. I believe they sell more Dalites than anything due to price. After doing back to backs with Dalite and Stewart, they believe that the Stewart is the superior screen, but it costs about 30% more.

It was cool to see how different the screens accually were. I haven't decide which way to go yet. I'm shooting on my painted wall and it looks great for now but I will eventually get a screen. I really like the Vutec Silver Star's brightness.

If any one is interesed, they also did a projector shoot out with these projectors. If you are curious what I thought, just send me a PM.

Panasonic AE900
Sanyo Z4
Optima H-79
Infocus I think 7205
Incocus 777
Sim ? 3 chip DLP
JVC I forget the number but it was there new 1080p unit.
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post #460 of 3772 Old 01-01-2006, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I know this may not do much for you guys, but here is a picture of the 3 samples on my wall.






The one on the left is the High Contrast Cinema Perf.
The one in the middle is the Audio Vision
The one on the right is the High Contrast Audio Vision

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post #461 of 3772 Old 01-02-2006, 07:12 AM
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The fact that the samples are not stretched tightly is hurting them a bit (making shadows in the folds) but boy, you can really see those perf's huh?

Send away for a sample of the Dazian CCC. I'd love to see how much worse/better/the same it is
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post #462 of 3772 Old 01-02-2006, 01:31 PM
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Here ya go.... This is one place.... I will post another place when i go to work tomorrow and find out the name of the company. They are located here in Georgia but do not have a website..... Hope this helps !!!! Mike

Speaker grill material
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post #463 of 3772 Old 01-02-2006, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike mcdaniel View Post

Here ya go.... This is one place.... I will post another place when i go to work tomorrow and find out the name of the company. They are located here in Georgia but do not have a website..... Hope this helps !!!! Mike

Speaker grill material

Thanks for that link Mike. There is a Steel factory by me that manufactures and sells these by the 4 x 8 Sheet. IIRC they are about $300 a Sheet. They will cut to size as well.

Ruben

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post #464 of 3772 Old 01-02-2006, 02:29 PM
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ruben

here is link for an alternative for screens. not sure on this yet. sounds like a versin of blackout cloth, but wide rolls for larger screens.
http://b-adeals.com/ProductScreenWhiteFire.htm
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post #465 of 3772 Old 01-02-2006, 02:35 PM
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Ruben, the post by 68sting is the one that tells the most about the reasons for the different screen materials. I have the Stewart Grayhawk (was the first high contrast screen material from any manufacturers) and it was developed for the LCD projectors since they don't have a way to completely turn off the light on pixels. Using an LCD projector with a gray screen helps the blacks. With all the new DLP projectors especially with the darkchip technology and such, the high-contrast screens are not needed as much unless you can't control the light in your room. Since you have a dedicated room with total light control, I would probably go with something that is not a negative gain.

Scott
 

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post #466 of 3772 Old 01-02-2006, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryep View Post

ruben

here is link for an alternative for screens. not sure on this yet. sounds like a versin of blackout cloth, but wide rolls for larger screens.
http://b-adeals.com/ProductScreenWhiteFire.htm

Thanks for that link Larry, but it doesn't mention if the screen is accoustically transparent or what. I need a Screen I can Set up my 2 Mains and center behind.

I ordered a Sample of Dazian CCC since allot of people are liking it. Gonna See what that brings to the plate.

Ruben

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post #467 of 3772 Old 01-02-2006, 02:46 PM
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sorry, i recalled your post about sample screen material. they don't send large enough samples. after that post i went TO the dyi screen forum . I am also on hunt for RAW screen material.
2 ft. x 6 ft would be nice samples.
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post #468 of 3772 Old 01-02-2006, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I found out the Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Perf Material is $10 a Square foot
and The Stewart Micro Perf Material is $65.00 a Square Foot if I want to make my own frame..

Now I paid around $1,500.00 for My 135" Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Perf Cinema Contour Fixed Frame with Pro Trim.

So Da-Lite Gets like $900.00 for a Frame? Is the frame that good?

Ruben

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post #469 of 3772 Old 01-03-2006, 04:51 AM
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Well, I'd bet you that if you put the Micro-Perf up there that the perfs wouldn't be nearly as noticable.

As for the frame cost, I can't say. I guess it's what the market will bear. I'd guess that you'd not find a lot of difference in the manufacturers from this standpoint. I know the my Stewart is very nicely built, very sturdy, easy to assemble and hang, etc.

I am serious...and don't call me Shirley.
Bryan Pape - Lead Acoustician
GIK Acoustics

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post #470 of 3772 Old 01-03-2006, 09:21 AM
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The frame was the main reason I bought the Stewart screen. I liked the shape of the frame as well as the snap attachments to the frame and the velux treatment of the frame (to make sure the image has sharp edges and allows you to set the projector to bleed over onto the frame).

Dude, you should have taken a few days out of your schedule and gone to Vegas this week for CES!

Scott
 

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post #471 of 3772 Old 01-03-2006, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Dude, you should have taken a few days out of your schedule and gone to Vegas this week for CES!


Shoulda, Coulda, woulda.

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post #472 of 3772 Old 01-03-2006, 10:44 AM
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Hey Sandman, did ya get my pm?
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post #473 of 3772 Old 01-03-2006, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Sandman, did ya get my pm?

Yep, PMed you back.

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post #474 of 3772 Old 01-03-2006, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Folks,

Just an Update. Been Spending a couple Days trying to get the Color right for the Wood. I finally got the Combo to Use for the Stain and Filler. It's a pretty big process to get the look I want. There is like 13 Steps to complete the Finish I want but it will look incredible when finished.

To Explain the Process, it takes mixing 2 colors of Stains together to get the Color I like, then cut it 50/50% with a thinner.

1) First you have to prep the Veneer with 2 Sandings, a 120 Grit then a 220 Grit.
2) Then you Dust It off.
3) Then Spray the Stain on & Let it dry for like 30 minutes.
4) Then mix a grain Filler.
5) Wipe on the Grain Filler with a Burlap cloth to fill up the grains and accent them so the grains look darker and pop out. Let It Dry for 4 Hours - 6 hours after that.
6) Wipe grain Filler off.
7) Sand with a 320 grit.
8) Dust Off.
9) Shoot 1st Coat of Clear & Let Dry.
10) Sand with a 320 Grit.
11) Shoot 2nd Coat of Clear & Let Dry.
12) Steel Wool Rub
13) Wax

So the good News Is, I can now begin to move forward with the Staining and finishing process.

Fun, Fun, Fun

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post #475 of 3772 Old 01-03-2006, 11:24 PM
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Let me be the first to say " Oh my goodness!".

Your attention to detail is amazing! If I took the time to put that kind of detail into my HT Room my 2 year project would turn into 6 years. I can't wait to see the finished room. Makes me ashamed to be thinking of putting up my own construction thread.

Keep up the great work it gives us "wannabees" something to strive for.

Rob

_____________________________________

But then again......what do I know?

The Mirage Home Theater - Construction
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post #476 of 3772 Old 01-04-2006, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Today my Stewart Perf Screen Samples came in. They Sent me like 8 different perforated Samples. Stewarts Micro Perf has the Smallest Holes. Stewarts Cinema Perf has Larger holes than the Da-Lite.

Here are some 100% Size Samples of the Stewart and Da-Lite Perfs

Da-Lite Audio Vision


Stewarts 200 Cinema


Stewarts 130 Micro Perf


Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Vision


Stewarts Firehawk Cinema


Stewarts Firehawk Micro Perf

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post #477 of 3772 Old 01-04-2006, 05:42 PM
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Wow - I know it looks worse than it is cuz we're getting such a close up shot of it but I have to think any digital (fixed pixel) display is going to have a problem with any one of those.

I have a sample of the Dazian CCC. It doesn't have any "holes". It is a weaved fabric and looks much more like something I can live with for an AT screen.
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post #478 of 3772 Old 01-04-2006, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_McArthur View Post

Let me be the first to say " Oh my goodness!".

Your attention to detail is amazing! If I took the time to put that kind of detail into my HT Room my 2 year project would turn into 6 years. I can't wait to see the finished room. Makes me ashamed to be thinking of putting up my own construction thread.

Keep up the great work it gives us "wannabees" something to strive for.

Rob

Awwwe Shuckss Thanks

There is no need to be ashamed of starting your own construction thread. We all have tips and techniques to teach each other. I have learned so much info and stole so many ideas from the guys here at AVS, its crazy. Your now all welcomed to Steal any ideas you like from me

We all should just be thankful we have the extra money to blow on these luxuries regardless of how it gets done


Ruben

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post #479 of 3772 Old 01-04-2006, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebr View Post

Wow - I know it looks worse than it is cuz we're getting such a close up shot of it but I have to think any digital (fixed pixel) display is going to have a problem with any one of those.

I have a sample of the Dazian CCC. It doesn't have any "holes". It is a weaved fabric and looks much more like something I can live with for an AT screen.

Yep, and those are all from my Scanner at 100% Size. So the hole size and pattern from sample to sample is actual size on your monitor.

Sit 10 feet Back from your Monitor and thats how it will look on your wall.

The Stewart Micro Perf is the Best Bet out these samples.

Ruben

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post #480 of 3772 Old 01-04-2006, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandmanX View Post

The Stewart Micro Perf is the Best Bet out these samples.
Ruben

That's why it costs so much! All those little holes, somebody has to put them in! Think of the poor soul who is over in the corner, trying to put in all those holes, one at a time with a little bitty hole-punch. His eyesight has been degrading for years, but he keeps on going like the Energizer bunny....

Scott
 

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