Sandmans Home Theater Construction Begins! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 3772 Old 08-28-2005, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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The Completed Theater, updated after the theater was completed:










First off,

I want to thank all the people who posted incredible tips and techniques in avs that inspired me to get our home theater started. I studied avs and many other resources for over a year and learned a great deal of info. That, plus my building background lead me to get started on our theater.

I will use this thread as my journal and update it on a daily basis when possible.
I will post progress pictures, material usage, cost and time. If anyone cares to add any comments, tips or dont forgets for me along the way, please feel free to chime in.

The space i am using to construct our theater is our 2 car garage which we only used for the past few years to store junk. The garage is constructed with cement walls on 2 sides, the garage door is metal, the back wall and ceiling is drywall and wood studs. The floor is cement.

The idea is to build a room inside a room. Outside noise is not really an issue due to the quiet neighborhood we are in and the house is a quiet home for my wife and i (no kids). Keeping noise from travelling out the theater is more of a concern, but the garage as is right now seems to keep noise within it especially well when I run power tools at 2 - 3am, but bass will be another story .

The finished inside room dimensions will be 20' x 16' x 8.5" ceiling

Construction will be stagger studded walls all around with 5/8" and 1/2" sheet rock doubled layered on each side of the walls. There will also be insulation iside the walls.

The ceiling will be rsic-1 clips and channel hats with 5/8" and 1/2" sheetrock.
The ceiling will finish as a fiber optic starfield cieling with 4 random shooting stars.

The screen will be 140" wide 2.40:1 SmX ProMask-Curv masking screen with the acoustically transparent CineWeave screen surface. First row of seating will be 135" from the screen.

There will also be a sand filled stage for the front of the theater. There will be a 10" high platform for the rear seating. The seating will be berkline 090's with wedges.

There will also be soffits containing lighting, vac and conduit to run future wire additions or upgrades all around the theater.

There will be columns containing side fills and rear surround speakers.

All lighting will be low voltage.

Here is a layout of what the theater layout will look like.




Here is a Picture of the Actual Garage.



Here is the Lumber to frame out The room which consists of
110 2" x 4" x 8'
20 2" x 6" x 8'
40 2" x 6" x 16'

Cost of framing Lumber was about $560.00



The First Stagger Studded Wall Constructed for our theater. This is the heaviest single wall I ever built at 16' x 8'-3" the rest of the walls will be 8' x 8' walls tied together.



Here are some close up shots of the Stagger Studded walls for those who ask what a stagger studded wall is.







Here are the rest of the 8' x 8' walls constructed and The final smaller adjoining walls to complete the 20' walls will be completed tonight. After That, its just waiting on Delivery of The Drywall, Sand and Insulation before walls get tied together.



Stay Tuned, All Comments Welcomed

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post #2 of 3772 Old 08-29-2005, 05:56 AM
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Great pics... hope it goes well.
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post #3 of 3772 Old 08-29-2005, 06:33 AM
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Yes, excellent! Keep us up to date ... looks like I'll be able to learn a lot from your progress.

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post #4 of 3772 Old 08-29-2005, 06:43 AM
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Looks like a cool project! Good luck with it.

In your diagram, it looks like you have two columns on the other walls in between the screen and front row of seats. Any reason those are offset and not across from each other? Also, I assume the boxed area in the back corner of the room is for the rack? Also, how are you going to cool the rack and the room?

Bud
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post #5 of 3772 Old 08-29-2005, 06:46 AM
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that's one great looking staggered frame. looks like you got some above-average lumber quality...

Understanding sound isolation
That link may be helpful
Brian
Posted content copyright 2004-2008 Green Glue Company, LLC
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post #6 of 3772 Old 08-29-2005, 08:40 AM
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I don't know what you've calculated your viewing angles at; but, the rear seats are too close to the rear wall.

Dennis Erskine CFI, CFII, MEI
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post #7 of 3772 Old 08-29-2005, 09:58 AM
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Thanks for the pictures (esp. the staggered stud). I appreciate that you are including your material costs. Its pretty helpful.

What aspect ratio are you going for on the screen? Is that an outline of the planned screen you've taped on the wall?
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post #8 of 3772 Old 08-29-2005, 10:37 AM
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I don't know if you live in a flood area but i am now converting a garge into a home theater and this weekend Hurricane Katrina flooded the area so bad that my garage was completely flooded; 6" of water through garage. My area has never flooded this bad. You may want to consider this when buiding. I am going to float the floor higher and try to seal of the garage door form future floods.
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post #9 of 3772 Old 08-29-2005, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks For all the Replies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

I don't know what you've calculated your viewing angles at; but, the rear seats are too close to the rear wall.

Thanks for Chiming in Dennis, What do you recommend as far as the seating from rear walls with the Space I am Working with?

The Seating is not Set in Stone Yet. The drawing is to size but scaled down. My First Mission is to accomplish a Sound Room. Then when it's time to Build the Platforms I will make any adjustments Necessary for seating. That Drawing is just for Show here.

Quote:


In your diagram, it looks like you have two columns on the other walls in between the screen and front row of seats. Any reason those are offset and not across from each other? Also, I assume the boxed area in the back corner of the room is for the rack? Also, how are you going to cool the rack and the room?

The Columns in that drawing are not lined up, but they are suppose to be. I just did that drawing real quick to Show the layout for those that wanted to see it. I will be seeking more advice on column placement once the framing is constructed and tied together.

The Box in the top back is the equipment Rack. It will be A/C as well as the room. My plan was to run a/c through the soffits unless someone recommends otherwise.

Quote:


that's one great looking staggered frame. looks like you got some above-average lumber quality...

Suprisingly the wood was pretty good. I just did a build that almost every piece of lumber was twisted to a 45 - 90 degree twist which was bought from Home Depot. Had To use Pliers on almost every peice due to the customer not wanting to return it.

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post #10 of 3772 Old 08-29-2005, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lehrens View Post

I don't know if you live in a flood area but i am now converting a garge into a home theater and this weekend Hurricane Katrina flooded the area so bad that my garage was completely flooded; 6" of water through garage. My area has never flooded this bad. You may want to consider this when buiding. I am going to float the floor higher and try to seal of the garage door form future floods.

Actually my home is pitched pretty high from the Street level and my street is pitched downhill pretty well. With all the rain we been getting, there has been no chance of any flooding here on my street (Thank God). Even with all the past hurricane seasons and rain there was no issues. But That is one excellent point.

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post #11 of 3772 Old 08-29-2005, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Well today I ordered the rest of the supplies to complete the Walls, Platform & Stage excluding electrical which will be delivered on Wednesday.

What I ordered was
60 - 5/8"s 4' x 8' Sheetrock for Double Layered Sheetrock.
16 - 5/8"s 4' x 8' Plywood For Stage and Platform
1,000 lb.s of Pavers Sand to fill Stage
1,000 SQF of R-19 Insulation for Walls, Ceiling, and Platform
24 Tubes of Silicone to seal the room
1 Roll of Roofing Felt to use between Layers of Plywood on Stage and Platform
and a few other misc. things

Total on all this $1,943.75

Also picked up other random Supplies Like Framing Nails for my Gun and Red Head Anchor Bolts to Bolt walls into the Floor and concrete walls.

Total on That $100.00

Also ordered the Fiber Optic Cables and Light Boxes and Various electronics needed to do the Starfield Ceiling and random Shooting Stars. Total Coverage area for starfield was 12' x 15' or 180 sqare feet.

Total Cost for fiber optic Starfield ceiling was $1,250.00

Next, I am waiting on a call back from Ted White to get my Green Glue Order on. Based on 100% coverage and my Total Square Footage I will need about 5 Cases and I am hoping to get a quantity discount.

Based on the List Pricing on their Site, It would be $887.40 for 5 Cases of Green Glue.

Lets See what happens. I will keep you updated.

Total Spent on Supplies to Date $3,853.75

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post #12 of 3772 Old 08-29-2005, 04:56 PM
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Hi Ruben,

Keep the detailed info coming! I'm in the design stages of my theater and am soaking it all up!

Do you have a link or more info about the star-field ceiling? I really like that idea.

-Rob-

Lies, damn lies, and interconnects...
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post #13 of 3772 Old 08-29-2005, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rop View Post

Hi Ruben,

Keep the detailed info coming! I'm in the design stages of my theater and am soaking it all up!

Do you have a link or more info about the star-field ceiling? I really like that idea.

-Rob-

No Problemo, I wanna try to help people like everyone has helped me. I am learning something new everyday as well.

The best place I found for the Fiber optic stuff was http://www.fiberopticproducts.com/Ceiling.htm
they seemed to have the best Prices and were very helpful over the phone. I should receive all my fiber optic stuff by this Friday. They don't sell kits like some places do, they sell you all the materials needed to DIY and it saves you allot of money.

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post #14 of 3772 Old 08-29-2005, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Today, I decided to go all out and do RSIC-1 Clips and Channel Hats on the Walls and Ceilings after reading some recent posts in here. My feelings in the beginning were mixed on wether I should do it with RSIC and Green Glue or Stagger Studded Walls with Green Glue.

Now since all the walls are constructed with Stagger Studs, I will add the clips and then Green glue between the 2 5/8"s drywall. Even though a standard studded 2" x 4" wall is fine with RSIC-1 Clips, I would hope this would give me just as good, if not a better room due to the extra cavity space within the wall.

Now to Order those RSIC-1 Clips.

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post #15 of 3772 Old 08-29-2005, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_pilgrim View Post

What aspect ratio are you going for on the screen? Is that an outline of the planned screen you've taped on the wall?

Yes that was the out Line on the wall.
16:9 Micro Perf Screen is what we are Doing here.

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post #16 of 3772 Old 08-29-2005, 10:53 PM
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Sounds like a great project. I love your detailed posts, construction costs are not often shared and it is great to see it.

It may be too late, and I don't know if it actually makes a difference or not, but, I was under the impression that doing two layers of DIFFERENT thickness drywall was ideal. I figured that it was so that each layer would have a different resonant frequency and fight each other rather than work together to transmit sound, or something like that. I also thought that was the case for platform floors too. Like I said I don't really KNOW, I was just wondering if that was the case or if it doesn't really make too much difference. Even if it does matter, I am sure with your extensive use of other treatments you will have a well isolated room.

Keep up the great work and posts,

Brian

I love NEW technology, it makes the stuff I can afford even cheaper.
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post #17 of 3772 Old 08-30-2005, 04:01 AM
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Good luck Sandman. I was thinking the same thing about the lumber. Thats the straightest pile of wood I've seen in a long time.

I am serious...and don't call me Shirley.
Bryan Pape - Lead Acoustician
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post #18 of 3772 Old 08-30-2005, 06:48 AM
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Just curious, but why are you getting rid of your garage? Do you not plan to ever sell your house?
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post #19 of 3772 Old 08-30-2005, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BFauska View Post

Sounds like a great project. I love your detailed posts, construction costs are not often shared and it is great to see it.

It may be too late, and I don't know if it actually makes a difference or not, but, I was under the impression that doing two layers of DIFFERENT thickness drywall was ideal. I figured that it was so that each layer would have a different resonant frequency and fight each other rather than work together to transmit sound, or something like that. I also thought that was the case for platform floors too. Like I said I don't really KNOW, I was just wondering if that was the case or if it doesn't really make too much difference. Even if it does matter, I am sure with your extensive use of other treatments you will have a well isolated room.

Keep up the great work and posts,

Brian

Green Glue eliminates the need of using 1/2" with 5/8"s. Therefor it is better to have more Mass. The Green Glue Dampens the Wall so Resonace isn't a problem.

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post #20 of 3772 Old 08-30-2005, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealthboy View Post

Just curious, but why are you getting rid of your garage? Do you not plan to ever sell your house?

We have not used our garage for over 3 years besides storing Junk. The Garage was the Best place for us to do a theater without interfering with the rest of the home. We are in FL and there are no basements in FL like most other states.

If I sell the Home (which I have no intentions to within the next 10 years), the Buyer has the Option of keeping the Theater and losing the garage or Losing the Theater and getting the garage back (which we will Demolition it for them).

The Theather is Built as a room within a room Design, meaning, It can be demolitioned without effecting the Garage Walls, Ceiling and Floor besides a few 1/2" holes drilled into the Walls and Floor which can be filled and painted. The Garage door will remain in place and the Top tracks and Motorized Garage door opener will be removed.

Yeah, about $6,000.00 in building Materials will be trashed if it gets torn down, but the price of having our own dedictated theater...Priceless.

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post #21 of 3772 Old 08-30-2005, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Decisions, Decisions, Decisions...

I WAS going to add RSIC-1 Clips to the Walls and Ceiling but after talking to a Few Good people, they think adding RSIC-1 Clips to a Stagger Studded wall is way over kill.

So I just ordered My 5 cases of Green Glue from Ted White and called It a Day.

By the way, Ted White is a Great Guy to talk to, he Suggests if anyone has any questions about Home Theater Construction to call him.

Also, he offers a discount on the Green Glue to AVS forum Members.

I ended up Saving $87.40 on the Green Glue. So the 5 Cases of Green Glue cost me $800.00 plus shipping.

Total Spent on Supplies to Date $4,688.75

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post #22 of 3772 Old 08-30-2005, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Green Glue eliminates the need of using 1/2" with 5/8"s.

Well, I haven't done the testing with Green Glue; but, back many years ago with a similar type of CLD material, we found that at extreme low frequencies, the damping material performed better if the backing (layer furthest from the sound) was rigid and the layer closest to the sound was more flexible. (We could test below 31.5Hz).

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post #23 of 3772 Old 08-30-2005, 07:14 PM
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Sandman: looks like you are off to a good start.

One thing I noticed is 1000 lbs of sand. I hope you ordered it in plastic bags so that while it's sitting around it won't have the opportunity to get wet. Also just a guess I don't think you'll have nearly enough for that stage as drawn.


Another item, I'm not sure what you are planning on under the base plates. At a minimum I would get some of that foam on a roll. That would help fill in any voids, cut down any rattling and help keep those untreated bottom plates a little dryer.

Also plan on some plastic sheeting to use in the stage construction to "wrap the sand" In Fl a sand filled stage that might get a little damp is like an "All you can eat buffet" for your 6 legged friends. You may want to think about treated lumber.
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post #24 of 3772 Old 08-30-2005, 11:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Sandman: looks like you are off to a good start.

One thing I noticed is 1000 lbs of sand. I hope you ordered it in plastic bags so that while it's sitting around it won't have the opportunity to get wet. Also just a guess I don't think you'll have nearly enough for that stage as drawn.


Another item, I'm not sure what you are planning on under the base plates. At a minimum I would get some of that foam on a roll. That would help fill in any voids, cut down any rattling and help keep those untreated bottom plates a little dryer.

Also plan on some plastic sheeting to use in the stage construction to "wrap the sand" In Fl a sand filled stage that might get a little damp is like an "All you can eat buffet" for your 6 legged friends. You may want to think about treated lumber.

Thanks for all the great suggestions!

Yes, the sand is Bagged and will be stored indoors once it arrives tomorrow. If I need more, Home Depot & Lowes is only 2 blocks away from my house (Lucky me)

We are using #30 Roofing Felt/Tar on all the Base Plates and all the Plates that connect to Cement walls and Probably in between the connecting framed walls.. I know quite a few people used this with great results. But I am interested in what you have mentioned. Can you post a link on exactly what your talking about?

We were going to line the Stage with a 3 - 4 mill plastic to hold the Sand. I have not gotten that far into the project yet so I was going to cross that bridge when I get to it.

Thanks
Ruben

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post #25 of 3772 Old 08-30-2005, 11:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

Well, I haven't done the testing with Green Glue; but, back many years ago with a similar type of CLD material, we found that at extreme low frequencies, the damping material performed better if the backing (layer furthest from the sound) was rigid and the layer closest to the sound was more flexible. (We could test below 31.5Hz).

According to Ted White, he Said that this was an unproven myth from back many years ago. He highly recommended 2 5/8"s with Green Glue in between and that is what I guess I will stick to.

I also asked Brian Ravnaas about using 1/2" and 5/8"s and his responce was...

"5/8" + 5/8" is preferable

This theory that 1/2" + 5/8" is better because the different thicknesses "stop different frequencies" is like 40 years old and never worked to begin with, really.

so, 5/8" + 5/8", but the other way won't hurt things much at all."

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post #26 of 3772 Old 08-30-2005, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpape View Post

Good luck Sandman. I was thinking the same thing about the lumber. Thats the straightest pile of wood I've seen in a long time.

I actually Hand picked all the Lumber and made sure it was straight. I ended up only having 2 slightly bent pieces. Even the 16 Footers were pretty damn straight.

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post #27 of 3772 Old 08-31-2005, 06:57 AM
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Sandman

The insulation I'm referring to is from HD. Around here one of the uses is to put it under the sill plate (a PT 2x6 or8 laid flat side down) that sits on top of the poured concrete walls used for BASEMENTS (Ah, the joys of a low water table).

I cut strips and stapled to the edges of the boards I used for my riser and it did a great job of filling in voids and making the structure sit firmly on the concrete. I think it would work great for your walls.

heres a picture:
LL
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post #28 of 3772 Old 08-31-2005, 07:14 AM
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post #29 of 3772 Old 08-31-2005, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandmanX View Post

According to Ted White, he Said that this was an unproven myth from back many years ago. He highly recommended 2 5/8"s with Green Glue in between and that is what I guess I will stick to.

I also asked Brian Ravnaas about using 1/2" and 5/8"s and his responce was...

"5/8" + 5/8" is preferable

This theory that 1/2" + 5/8" is better because the different thicknesses "stop different frequencies" is like 40 years old and never worked to begin with, really.

so, 5/8" + 5/8", but the other way won't hurt things much at all."

Perhaps i could offer a little clarification, I don't know what Ted said, but:

Dennis was one of the first people on the planet to really know anything about CLD with respect to sound isolation. Long before Audio Alloy even knew what Green Glue could do, Dennis had an idea.

CLD materials vary, and they exhibit different shear properties, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that DE's observations of the materials he worked with are anything but spot-on. However, with Green Glue the use of different thicknesses of drywall isn't an inherent advantage.

My recommendation to you was for an RSIC ceiling. As i stated, the heavier wall will perform better at low frequencies. If one of you opted for 1/2" + 5/8", don't panic, the difference won't be huge.

I would politely ask that my comments not be used to state that any opposing philosophy was wrong, that wasn't their intent, but I stand by my recommendation of double 5/8" for an RSIC ceiling due to mass and it's effect on decoupled walls.

Brian

Understanding sound isolation
That link may be helpful
Brian
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post #30 of 3772 Old 08-31-2005, 07:59 AM
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too add some more perspective to my comments:

using all 5/8" drywall on a ceiling/floor structure assumed to have 2x10 joists and 3/4" plywood sub-floor, with RSIC clips for a net cavity depth of 9.5" + 1.625" = 11.125"


using double 5/8" drywall would give a predicted (including the stiffness of the clips, per data collected at Audio Alloys labs and Orfield labs) mass-spring resonance frequency of ~31hz. that assumes the cavity has insulation.

Moving to 5/8" + 1/2" drywall would give ~32.5hz...

this is worth maybe 1dB for lowering of teh MSM and mass.

my point: don't panic. the selection of either 5/8" + 1/2" or 5/8" + 5/8" will yield good results. I do recommend the 5/8" + 5/8" for an RSIC ceiling, i would hardly put up a big fight if someone else recommended 5/8" + 1/2".


to contrast this, with resilient channel on the ceiling, the mass-spring resonance should fall nearly 2/3 of an octave higher in the mid to high 40's. That should be worth MANY dB due to higher frequency of effective decoupling.

i took the liberty, recently, of collecting some 3rd party data to demonstrate this superiority of the RSIC clip relative to RC. and i even had the lab manager validate that the RC in question was 25 gauge metal. Lord knows how wide the margin would get with off-spec channel....


Understanding sound isolation
That link may be helpful
Brian
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