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post #121 of 403 Old 06-09-2007, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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My Wilson Audio Watt Puppy 8 speakers will be arriving next Friday!

I'm not sure when the dealer is coming out to voice them yet but I will post an update when we schedule a date.

"It is worse still to be ignorant of your ignorance."
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post #122 of 403 Old 06-18-2007, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, make that this Wednesday instead...

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post #123 of 403 Old 06-19-2007, 11:27 AM
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make sure to post LOTS of pics!!@
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post #124 of 403 Old 06-24-2007, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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The Wilson Watt Puppy 8 speakers arrived on Wednesday. A friend and I set them up and the dealer came and voiced them today. All I can say is, breathtaking. The difference is night and day between these and my old speakers in my listening room. I'm having none of those congested, cavernous sound issues in the high-bass and mid-range with the new speakers, and most other issues were eliminated as well (so far I haven't run across any issues that are bothering me...). Absolutely marvelous.... WOW!!!

I'll post more later as I haven't had enough time to sit back and enjoy them. At some point in the next week I'll replace my pictures on this thread and express more of my sentiments. For now, suffice it to say, the moments when I close my eyes and feel I am hearing the real thing right in front of my face are so common now, that I am regretful that I didn't do this sooner.

Sean Turner from HiFiBuysNashville did an incredible job of voicing the speakers. Before the voicing started I had them in a position that wasn't terrible, but the very bottom of the bass was disconnected from the more high frequency portions of the bass notes and there were other issues as well that were more subtle. It was amazing to hear the difference in the two different locations he found where the speakers would work (unfortunately, the very best position would have been behind my movie screen, so it wouldn't work, though Sean guessed it would only be a 2%-3% difference between the two positions he found). Once he placed them in positions close to the final spots you could hear the whole frequency spectrum align. It was a mind blowing experience to hear such a radical difference in how these speakers present the music simply by moving one speaker even a single inch (as was demonstrated to me by Sean in the process of voicing them). The music completely came into focus and frequency spectrum aligned in a way I didn't think was possible. Bravo!

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post #125 of 403 Old 06-24-2007, 07:50 PM
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ok, i have to ask... including material, labor, equipment, and blood, what's a decent estimate for the total cost of your HT?

it looks absolutely amazing by the way. about the only things i might prefer are some cupholders in the seats, and speakers that are less visible... but like everything else, it's a personal preference thing...

your setup and design is inspiring man! keep it up!

ps - very nice gaming rig...
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post #126 of 403 Old 06-25-2007, 03:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse View Post

ok, i have to ask... including material, labor, equipment, and blood, what's a decent estimate for the total cost of your HT?

it looks absolutely amazing by the way. about the only things i might prefer are some cupholders in the seats, and speakers that are less visible... but like everything else, it's a personal preference thing...

your setup and design is inspiring man! keep it up!

ps - very nice gaming rig...

I'm going to have to think about that one for a little bit.

Thanks for all of the compliments. I HATE building gaming rigs, but I love enjoying them afterwards. It is torture for me to put them together as I am not extremely dexterous, so placing things inside a small case gets frustrating. I also had a problem with Windows XP and have to do a reinstallation of the OS, but I don't have time for that ATM. THANK GOD there have been no hardware issues, that is the worst thing that can happen when you build your own PC. So far so good, I look forward to some more Quad CPU games to be released.

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post #127 of 403 Old 06-25-2007, 07:34 AM
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Pics, where are the pics? We have got to see the new puppies in place!

Congrats on getting the sound you want and demand finally!

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post #128 of 403 Old 06-25-2007, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are two temporary teasers until I get a chance to take some quality pictures with my good flash and settings (probably in around three weeks - sorry it will take so long, I have a lot of work, and any free time is going toward listening!).




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post #129 of 403 Old 06-27-2007, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
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Why does it look like the sub is actually floating in this pic?

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post #130 of 403 Old 06-27-2007, 10:18 AM
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WHy does it look like it's floating? because it is further back on the carpet. HE HE!

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post #131 of 403 Old 06-27-2007, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVonhof View Post

Why does it look like the sub is actually floating in this pic?

What, you've never seen a floating sub before?

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post #132 of 403 Old 07-01-2007, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm in the fine tuning stage of my room design. Richard Rives analyzed the ETF5 measurements and pointed out areas on the measurements where problems were occuring so I could try and locate them in the room and place additional treatments over those areas to solve reflection issues (one occured in the impulse response measurement, corresponding to a reflection ~6 feet longer than the initial direct sound). He also suggested that if I like I could deaden the room more if I don't prefer it as live sounding as it is currently. I ordered some RPG Systems Inc. BAD Arc diffusers as per his recommendation and will place those on all four of the sidewall reflection points and move the current treatments around to experiment a little with the live-ness/deadness of the room so I can see which I prefer more.

It appears that the major impulse measurement problem is likely a ceiling reflection issue, so I'm going to take some of the extra OC703 and wrap it in the extra acoustically transparent fabric we ordered to place in the spots where the speakers reflect on the ceiling that are bare.

As far as equipment is concerned, I'm currently saving up for the Wilson Watch Center for the center channel and likely the Wilson Duettes (perhaps Watch Surrounds) for the surround speakers.

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post #133 of 403 Old 07-01-2007, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are some updated photos:










"It is worse still to be ignorant of your ignorance."
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post #134 of 403 Old 07-01-2007, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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For a sense of perspective:

The room dimensions are ~33' x ~18' x ~9' (& ~7.7') (Length x Width x Height). The ceiling is ~9' in the center area (the tray ceiling area with the RPG high profile Skylines on it), but ~7.7' under the larger soffit areas, if you are trying to figure out an approximate volume for the room.

The listening couch is ~1/3rd the distance of the room length from the back wall, the speakers are ~1/3rd the distance of the room length from the couch, and the front wall is ~1/3rd the distance of the room length from the speakers. So the room setup is split into ~1/3rds.

The ratio of the distance between the listening position and each speaker, to the distance between each speaker and the other speaker, is varying currently somewhere between these two limits: 1.1:1 to 1.25:1. Each offers a different and enjoyable experience with the music.

The closer position is more immersive, detailed at the individual instrument level, and seems more timbrally accurate sounding, though also tonally brighter, but the brightness could be a sign that I need more treatment on the ceiling reflection points for both speakers and at the right sidewall for the left speaker (this was confirmed through ETF5 meaurements - an impulse spike is occurring ~6' longer than the direct sound from both speakers according to Richard Rives, as I measured both speakers separately as well as simultaneously).

The further away position is more dry (not as immersive), offers a greater holistic focus of the music as a whole, i.e., greater total detail at the expense of less individual detail, and seems duller tonally and timbrally compared to the closer position.

The first position is great for a cathartic experience with the music, while the second is incredible for album analysis. Though to be fair, both positions offer the opportunity for epiphanies. The first position offers an epiphany of the emotional nature and the second position offers an epiphany of the intellectual nature. The first position places you inside the event so you can be a part of the experience, while the second position places you outside the event so you can analytically comprehend its entirety.

As you can imagine, I will probably never settle on one position, and luckily I only have to move my seating position around 6 inches to go back and forth between the two. The speakers are that refined in their localization and imaging!

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post #135 of 403 Old 07-02-2007, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm about to create a thread asking if anyone knows any good lights I can replace my curent track lighting with for a Lutron system. I am looking for lights that don't make noise as the current ones I'm using are very noisy when dimmed, and a little noisy when fully lit. It is disturbing me when I listen to music, as I either have to have the lights all the way on, or all the way off (all the way off if I want a completely silent noise floor).

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post #136 of 403 Old 07-05-2007, 02:34 PM
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$30k for a pair of speakers and you still need to buy another two subwoofers to make them full range???!?!
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post #137 of 403 Old 07-05-2007, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shiznit View Post

$30k for a pair of speakers and you still need to buy another two subwoofers to make them full range???!?!

No need to be confused, all you need to do is read the entire thread. I bought the subwoofers over a year ago, long before I bought my new speakers. I don't use them for two channel music listening, and never did, I use them to add extra, floor-shaking bass to the Home Theater (they even have a setting that ratchets the bass up for just this purpose).

My current speakers go down to 21Hz (the FR is 21Hz - 22.5KHz, +0/-3dB). My last speakers only went down to 34Hz (FR of 34Hz - 28KHz, +-3dB). I hope that clears up your confusion a little.

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post #138 of 403 Old 07-08-2007, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are a few measurements. I'm adding more treatments and switching some around as well (to different types of treatments) so I'll have to respost new measurements when I get a chance.

Please let me know what other measurements you would be interested in seeing, as I took page captures of them all. They are all done using long sine sweeps, full range. The nulls on the 20Hz to 200Hz measurements appear to be normal for my room (I had them with the 802D as well when in that general vicinity and not using the Meridian 861 Room correction). While the nulls are likely a room issue, it is possible that the reinforcements between 60Hz and 80Hz are probably due to the character of both the 802D and W/P8, since they both have higher measurements in those areas without room interference.

3D Low Frequency Spectral Decay:



3D High Frequency Spectral Decay:



1/6th Octave:



RT60:



Impulse Response:



FR 20Hz to 200Hz:



FR 20Hz to 20KHz:


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post #139 of 403 Old 07-10-2007, 01:15 PM
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It's official, I should have studied Computer Science instead of choosing to work in Higher Ed...now if you'll excuse me, I need to go change the oil in my 91 Camry.

Listen to the Real HT Info Podcast at http://realht.info, including video reviews at my YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/realhtinfo/videos
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post #140 of 403 Old 07-13-2007, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I keep myself very busy, that is why when I get the chance to sit for awhile and listen to music, like I did tonight, I really appreciate it. I'm enthralled with my new speakers, so much so that I put in an order for the Wilson Audio Specialties Watch Center for my center channel speaker and Sophia Series 2 for my surround channel speakers. I'm in for a pound now, instead of just a penny.

I haven't listened to Sting's first solo album (The Dream of the Blue Turtles) all the way through in a long time (likely since I was in highschool and bought it as my first CD for my first CD player). It is a very well engineered album, also quite involving and engaging on the Watt Puppy 8s. I close my eyes and get to be there.

We finished some of the last notes on the room construction today, and I think I hear a VERY clear difference in the bass response and coherency. It is now tighter, faster, and more distinct. What did we do? Well we caulked the passive resonator in the front of the room to be sealed air tight and we applied the final framing to its entire edges so it matches the framing around the rest of the room (red oak). It is now sealed tight, and the bass seemed to respond in kind.

I can hear the difference when I tap on it as well. It used to reverberate longer and oscillated more during that vibration, now it has a fast, steady decay. It seems to be the same effect I'm hearing from the lower bass as well.... Who knows though, perhaps it is all in my head. I won't know until I take measurements and compare the 3D spectral decay charts (if I understand what they are correctly...).

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post #141 of 403 Old 07-16-2007, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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We tightened up the passive resonator with some caulk around the entire perimeter and nailed a frame around it.



It seems to have tightened up the bass frequencies that it resonates with (the notes that are similar in frequency to the sound the passive resonator makes when I tap on it). There was a nice difference between before I sealed it up and afterwards. Before hand it resonated longer (longer decay time) and oscillated during that decay time when I tapped on it. Now it is one stable, short duration decaying sound when I tap on it. Its effects are profound on that frequency area in the music. The bass is now punchy and tight in that frequency area. A great example of the benefits of more advanced acoustic treatment when done correctly (more advanced than just hanging wall panels everywhere that is...), as opposed to incorrectly as it was previously when unsealed (where it sort of acted similar to a solid sheet of thin metal, like the kind used for lightning sound effects).

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post #142 of 403 Old 07-16-2007, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I unfortunately realized recently that I failed to turn off the Meridian Room Correction correctly when doing my before and after with the B&W 802D speakers. So unfortunately, I don't have any uncorrected room response measurements with the 802D speakers. This is my fault for not understanding how to correctly bypass the room correction software. This also explains why the results look so similar between the two. I am terribly embarrassed, and yes, I feel stupid.... I can only blame my lack of experience with the Meridian 861 and measurements in general. It should have been obvious that the measurements were so similar. At the time I had not previously been able to use the Meridian 861 because I hadn't installed it in this system until the room was completed. If I could go back in time, I would just use the two channel Ayre gear I originally used before the room was built for all the measurements to avoid these kind of complications.

I apologize if this was misleading, as I myself was mislead until I did more indepth work with programming the 861 recently.

I discovered my mistake recently when trying to work on bass management issues with the 861. I found that I needed to specifically set each mode being used to a bypass setting for the room correction profile. I had assumed you could just set things to "direct" and it would automatically bypass room correction. This is not true unfortunately. So the subtle differences are actually differences in listening positions I had been experimenting with at the time.

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post #143 of 403 Old 07-17-2007, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Next items on the list:
  • OC 703 ceiling treatments for left and right main speaker reflections
  • OC 703 treatment squares for the bookshelf cubbies at ear level
  • OC 703 treatment rectangles for the floor that can be added or removed for critical listening purposes
  • OC 703 sound proofing for the air-vent pipes in the electronics closet
  • A solid wood door to replace the hollow door for the electronics closet (further soundproofing)
  • Fixing and completing unfinished electrical work
  • Adding RPG Systems Inc. BAD ARC panels to the sidewall first reflection points for both speakers on both walls (thus, 4 altogether) and moving the old Absorbers to new places on the walls to tighten up the imaging more
  • More to come? (God, I hope not...)

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post #144 of 403 Old 09-01-2007, 05:11 PM
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Dude. That is a serious setup. Congrats, great job and thanks very much for sharing it with us along the way.

I aspire to one day have this kind of arrangement.
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post #145 of 403 Old 09-01-2007, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Dude. That is a serious setup. Congrats, great job and thanks very much for sharing it with us along the way.

I aspire to one day have this kind of arrangement.

Thanks!

I need to update with the surround sound speakers, but I'll end up doing that when I get some of the other items coming in thenext two weeks to a month.

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post #146 of 403 Old 10-04-2007, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I added the following:

SME 20/2 w/ IV.vi tonearm and Lyra Titan cartridge,
Sutherland PhD Phonostage,
Tascam DV-RA1000HD (for archiving LPs to redbook and DVD-A),
Behringer DEQ2496 (for playing with the FR - but it is usually in analog bypass mode).

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post #147 of 403 Old 10-04-2007, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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A few things are in the works:

1) Mounting new RPG Diffusor System's BAD ARC treatments on first order sidewall reflection points. These are replacing RPG absorption panels previously used there, as per Rives recommendation based on the minimized room interaction design of Wilson speakers.

2) I ordered custom sized RPG BAD panels for the ceiling to cover gaps between the 1st order ceiling reflection points and the RPG Skylines.

3) Consulting with Rives on decreasing a bass hump that is a little too large in the 40 Hz to 90 Hz region.

4) Moving the previous sidewall absorption panels around to other areas of the room to tighten up the rear (as per Rives suggestion) and front of the room, to see which I like better.

5) Waiting on a box from Stewart Screen to return the screen for repairs, it had problems during the initial shipping, and was a little damaged. Once I get the box it will be shipped back for repairs, at which time the screen material will also be changed from the Firehawk G3 material to the StudioTek 130 material. The screen will have to be removed from the ceiling and put back in again when it returns.

6) The equipment closet ventilation isn't completed, so it will be worked on.

7) A humidifier needs to be added for the winter, to prevent static in the room, and dryness.

8) The lights need to be replaced. They are malfunctioning (some randomly flicker on and off, with no rhyme or reason), and have the transformers located on the track units. They are being replaced with quiter direct line lighting with a transformer somewhere with soundproofing.

9) Soundproofing of the equipment closet.

10) I have to fish around for the final impulse response issue. There is one reflection that I haven't located yet (likely on the bookshelf somewhere), so I will have to move panels around the bookshelf and take ETF 5 measurements until I find it, and if it isn't there, I will have to move them around the room until I find it...

11) Take pictures of newer equipment to add to this thread.

12) Remeasure room response and post the measurements here, as it is different now due to minor seating position changes and treatment changes. I'll probably wait on this until I finish almost everything else (at least until the treatments and bass hump are modified...).

13) Putting red oak veneer on my rear speaker stands and staining them.

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post #148 of 403 Old 10-29-2007, 08:26 AM
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awesome theater, congrats

All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
Finding the acoustic sweet spot.
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post #149 of 403 Old 10-29-2007, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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awesome theater, congrats

Thanks for visiting my endless project!

"It is worse still to be ignorant of your ignorance."
-- Saint Jerome (374 AD - 419 AD)

My Home Theatre
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post #150 of 403 Old 11-01-2007, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richlo View Post

whata beautiful car..I saw one in Yellow (I think) on Friday at work...and I had to turn and just see it and watch it go..of course, I think about 4 guys did the same thing..kinda stands out..

Lemme guess you all cause fender benders...

I would have gawked to, LMAO

~Bobby
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