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post #31 of 148 Old 01-20-2007, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess I should note that there is more of the discussion about insulation here.

And that there is more about the floor, here.

And about the electricity here.

And about running cabling here and here.

And, of course, a bit about the ceiling.

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post #32 of 148 Old 01-20-2007, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

The likely cause of the concrete trouble is the very LARGE eucalyptus tree about one feet away from the back side of the garage, in the neighbor's yard. There's probably a root very near the surface. Similar in concept to what some trees do to a sidewalk.....

So I hesitate to put a floor over the concrete, or even pour new concrete, until that root is taken care of. But going to the neighbor's house an saying "Hi I just moved in and your tree is ruining my garage floor" is not a conversation I want to have. Actually, it's not clear that the tree isn't on my property, but that it has ended up being considered their yard.

You will probably have to take up at least some of the concrete to determine if the tree roots caused the problem. If the tree is on your property, then answer is simplye If the tree is on their property, then perhaps you can invite them to see the damage the tree caused (when you have exposed the evidence), tell them you are fixing it and that any future damage will be their responsibility (using better words). Another option would be to get someone with a trenching machine to come along -- on your side of the property line -- and dig down several feet (which would cut the roots), and then put some kind of barrier in the ground before filling in the gap. Since you are in the US (the US in Litigous), I would check to see if you have any liability if your neighbours tree dies from the trenching.

Forewarned is forearmed, but who needs four arms?
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post #33 of 148 Old 01-24-2007, 10:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm. Yes, something is needed. Here are more photos of the floor, which really shows the trouble.




and then a real close up of the area with the biggest issue



but that's not to say there aren't other areas that have trouble, such as this, which is on the right side, near the front -- which is a less likely place for a tree root to be causing a problem



so I guess we really won't know till we take the concrete out, and we might learn, once doing that, that it wasn't tree, and we didn't need to take the concrete out, but could have just sealed what was there, and built over it....
LL
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post #34 of 148 Old 01-25-2007, 11:59 AM
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Why not just break up and remove the large chunk from the 3rd pic and see what's underneath? If it's the tree, you should see some evidence of that, but if it isn't, you can just fill in with some more concrete and lay a new floor over the top.

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post #35 of 148 Old 01-25-2007, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Now that's an idea I like. If my guy wants and all-or-nothing contract, I'll shop around for another concrete guy that is willing to take this approach. Thanks!

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post #36 of 148 Old 01-28-2007, 11:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Those of you living in Northern California know that it has been raining quite a bit this weekend. This was a good chance to see whether there are any obvious leaks or water problems. The verdict: Maybe.

There is a drain pipe (the only one, in fact, for the gutters) on the right hand side of the garage entrance.

The drain literally empties onto concrete that is right at the door of the garage. And I THINK that this is where the water on the floor near the right door came from. I think I need to get an extension for that drain pipe and wait for the NEXT rain, to know for sure.

------------

In other news, another carpenter / handyman took a look at the garage and agrees that unless a closer inspection reveals a problem with the existing drywall, I can just leave it up and do a second layer over it.

According to UPS, the green glue should be here tomorrow (THANK YOU RANDITO3) but I suspect it will be at least a few weeks before I figure out what to do with the floor -- and I want to resolve that before I start with the walls, etc.

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post #37 of 148 Old 05-15-2007, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Back again. Been pulling out all the old cabinets and such from the previous owners, and the garage is getting more bare. Removing cabinets has revealed more concrete damage BUT our tree guy thinks he can take care of it, once we get some of the concrete out of the way. Nice little summer project!

So now I'm shopping for gear, since I want to buy as much of it "used" as possible, I figure I'm a few months from the end of construction, and that should be enough time to find what I want, used. The Mackie powered monitors I want (HR824) should be cake to acquire. I've got a NuForce Pre-Amp that is very nice and will tide me over until a good but affordable HDMI-audio decoding pre-amp arrives on the scene. The projector is already in house, as is the sub. And though I have a couple of screens to choose from, I haven't yet made up my mind about that (see this thread for my questions in that dept. Found some nice theater seating at a local consignment place BUT I don;t actually have anywhere to store such a thing while the world is under construction

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post #38 of 148 Old 05-30-2007, 10:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not entirely sure I've got the circuits right, and am still wondering whether 7.1 instead of 6.1 is going to be preferable, but we're moving right along.


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post #39 of 148 Old 06-05-2007, 02:27 PM
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Looking good. 20 amps is probably enough for your speakers - the extra amplifier power will mainly be for headroom, and all channels/drivers won't be going at once. You'll want a 20 amp circuit for your subwoofer for sure, though. I'd also move the door back a bit.

Personally, I'd ditch the treadmill and try to get some plumbing in there for a toilet on the back wall and a small pedestal sink on the side wall. It won't be cheap, but if you're going all out, you might as well do it right the first time. I'd consider a bathroom as a must-have for a detached theater. If you can't afford it yet, set up a temporary theater in the garage and enjoy it until you can afford to do the room (and bathroom) justice.
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post #40 of 148 Old 06-05-2007, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, a bathroom would be great, but it's way beyond the budget for the foreseeable future. There is a second structure, next to the garage, that will be rebuilt and might eventually house the treadmill, at which time perhaps budget would permit a half bath.

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post #41 of 148 Old 06-05-2007, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

Yeah, a bathroom would be great, but it's way beyond the budget for the foreseeable future.


I see some bushes out next to the garage. That should work just fine

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post #42 of 148 Old 06-05-2007, 06:55 PM
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nathan just discovered your thread. Glad you've had a fdew people look at the job.

My humble .02:

If you are putting more than one circuit in the garage, you will need a subpanel, per 225.30 of the NEC. You can't run multiple circuits to a detached building. Good news is that it will certainly be more convenient, plus your house panel looks a little crowded. The sub will only take 2 spaces on your existing panel.

As for concrete, I would remove at least the damaged portions plus some around it. Dig down and chainsaw through whatever root might be there. If it's on your property you can remove it. It will only become a bigger problem in the future, most likely compromising the foundation. Best case, remove the entire slab, compact, repour.

Lastly, I think you'd be really screwed if a neighbor flipped you for no permit. The amount of work it would take to make the building comply as habitable space wouldn't be worth it. Unless you have a good'ol boy inspector that will do a drive-by inspection.

Better to make nicey-nice with the neighbors, for sure!

Good luck,
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post #43 of 148 Old 06-05-2007, 09:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I appreciate the suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

If you are putting more than one circuit in the garage, you will need a subpanel, per 225.30 of the NEC. You can't run multiple circuits to a detached building. Good news is that it will certainly be more convenient, plus your house panel looks a little crowded. The sub will only take 2 spaces on your existing panel.

Yeah, after a bit of learning, it looks like the subpanel is a must. This is relatively cheap, and will give me room for the future.

Quote:


As for concrete, I would remove at least the damaged portions plus some around it. Dig down and chainsaw through whatever root might be there. If it's on your property you can remove it. It will only become a bigger problem in the future, most likely compromising the foundation. Best case, remove the entire slab, compact, repour.

I gotta get a concrete guy to take a look. The arborist said he could remove the appropriate amount and take care of the root(s) BUT he was really quick to schedule a time for some pruning (which worked well) on another tree -- and has been not returning calls about the roots. I figure a concrete pro has dealt with such a situation before, so that would be the way to go.

Latest twist: The neighbors (or the owners of the house, since the neighbors are renters) chopped 80% of the tree down. Now it just looks like a 15 foot stump. That may not mean it never grows again but I'm guessing it slows it. And, best of all, now it's so small I'm not worried about it taking out my garage, in a storm.

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Lastly, I think you'd be really screwed if a neighbor flipped you for no permit. The amount of work it would take to make the building comply as habitable space wouldn't be worth it. Unless you have a good'ol boy inspector that will do a drive-by inspection.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'habitable space' because it won't be a living space. Other than the false wall, it will be something that can still be a garage, with a single day's work.

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post #44 of 148 Old 06-06-2007, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

I'm not sure what you mean by 'habitable space' because it won't be a living space. Other than the false wall, it will be something that can still be a garage, with a single day's work.

The IRC (International Residential Code) defines 'habitable space' as:

"1. Have at least a 7' ceiling.
2. Be at least 70 square feet.
3. Have natural light (window area equal to at least 8"% of the floor area) or artificial light.
4. Have natural ventilation (through operable doors or windows) or mechanical heat"

I don't think the U.S. federal code is that different. That would make pretty much every theater anyone on here has ever built habitable space. It doesn't have to be a living space - just that it COULD be a living space.

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post #45 of 148 Old 06-06-2007, 05:15 AM
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Any space within a building that is used for living is habitable space. In this situation (able to be converted back to a garage), I don't think it would be a good idea to go down that road.

Just giving you a heads up, ymmv.


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post #46 of 148 Old 06-06-2007, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting. I guess I better "leave it as a garage"... that happens to have speakers and a screen and some seats in it.

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post #47 of 148 Old 06-06-2007, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
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Interesting. I guess I better "leave it as a garage"... that happens to have speakers and a screen and some seats in it.


Yup in which you are storing those items, VERY NEATLY!

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post #48 of 148 Old 06-06-2007, 11:33 AM
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You could go and ask some general questions at your permitting department about what is allowed in your community.

I think it could be classified as a detached shop or outbuilding.

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post #49 of 148 Old 06-06-2007, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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So in researching "detached garages" the rules appear different in my locality from a "living space". I'm not sure at what point a garage becomes a living space.

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post #50 of 148 Old 06-06-2007, 03:42 PM
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usually, if it has cooking or bathroom, then it would be living space.

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post #51 of 148 Old 06-06-2007, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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This will have neither, so based on what I read on my city's web site explaining these things, it should be okay.

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post #52 of 148 Old 06-06-2007, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
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usually, if it has cooking or bathroom, then it would be living space.

That's not necessarily true. In Rhode Island it has to have two of the three following items to be considered living space:

1. Finished walls and ceiling, finished floor
2. Heating/cooling system
3. Lighting

That's all. My wine cellar counts as living space, and it has no heating/cooling (foundation walls on three sides - I rely on ground for temp. control). I'm not about to move into it, but it IS living space. Our square footage was reevaluated by a town assessor this spring based on it.

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post #53 of 148 Old 06-06-2007, 05:59 PM
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wow drin that's pretty strict. Bathrooms, hallways and closets aren't considered habitable. I would think of a wine cellar as a big closet. Not like you can slap a La-Z-Boy in there and watch the big screen or anything.

I could see being reassessed because the value of your home increases, but sheesh, there's no heat!

I guess there are exceptions to every rule, but usually around here the space would have to be conditioned (insulated and heated) to be considered habitable.

Not a bad idea to take a trip down to the building dept and see what they say. But I would think that it would be habitable space. Since most of the building will be uncovered, you would be in a classification of work that would basically make the building come up to code. If you're in a high wind or seismic zone you would be looking at a lot of structural work.

Then again, your building dept might be more lenient.

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post #54 of 148 Old 06-06-2007, 08:16 PM
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wow drin that's pretty strict.

In some ways, yes, in others not quite so strict. For example, after my rough-in inspection there was no further inspection required until the final. I went to the inspector's office twice to verify it. I also asked about my riser and ceiling height. He looked at me and said "We couldn't care less about it."

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post #55 of 148 Old 08-04-2007, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Posted in a separate thread, where I am trying to decide whether to build a whole new room within the garage -- and I think I should.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=11218133

Quote:



Well, the saga continues. Got the concrete slab in, this week. Whew!

Now it's time to make some dimension and construction decisions. From what I can estimate, the cost different between putting a second layer of drywall over the existing drywall (using the case of Green Glue a gracious fellow AVS-er set me up with) is less expensive than building four new interior walls... though I will have to build one new interior wall, anyway, to break up the room.

But I'm thinking it may be worth it to essentially build a room within the garage, that is almost as wide, and similarly as tall, as the current space -- because it lets me choose a more optimum size for acoustics, and the air gap between the false room on the slab, the walls of the actual garage, perhaps 6 to 12 inches, will help contain sound within the space AND prevent sound from leaking in.

And building a 2x4 frame for four walls to enclose a space of approx 13' x 16' is not astronomically more than doing a single wall....

But it raises the question of the RIGHT dimensions.

I've re-oriented the room to have the screen on the long wall -- so the room is wider than deep. I've got it figured out to have the seating at 2/3 of the way back from the screen. And, of course, the sweet spot seat will be centered on the screen and equidistant from each side wall.

Plugging all this into the calculators tells me:

13 x 17 x 7 room (17 is the max width, and 7 is the max ceiling with out having some cross beams visible): I've got single peaks at 66,161, and 199 hz. Double peaks at 132 and 256 hz. And single nulls at 33, 80,100, 166, and 299 hz. And a double null at 242 hz. AND 5 problem frequencies: 132, 166, 173, 241, 256.

NOT SO GOOD!

But, if I do 12.5 x 16 x 7.33, I get no peaks and no nulls! Of course, there are still 4 problematic frequencies, according to the calculator: 141, 180, 230, and 282 hz.

Other options can reduce the "problem frequencies" to just two, BUT then introduces two peaks. 13 x 16 x 7.33 is an example.


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post #56 of 148 Old 08-04-2007, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are the calculations:

 

theater acoustic calculations.zip 313.775390625k . file

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post #57 of 148 Old 08-05-2007, 01:01 AM
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Nathan,

Where in the bay area are you? I'll take a swipe and guess peninsula but I'm over here in the Hayward hills.

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post #58 of 148 Old 08-05-2007, 01:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Yep, across the bay!

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post #59 of 148 Old 08-05-2007, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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new layout. note the room within a room construction -- mostly about getting the right acoustic size, than being necessary for soundproofing. but it will help with that too.

sorry about the front (bottom) being cut off. a little trouble with the upload.
LL

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post #60 of 148 Old 08-11-2007, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I am being strongly persuaded to use the short wall for the screen, and I think I have managed to make it work, in this layout. Here is the room itself with elements drawn in.

First, the visio diagram of the room, from above. (Note that the entrance door and wall to the theater space don't exist yet, so in the actual photos, I have just drawn in where that wall will be.)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...chmentid=86904

And here are the photos:

Screen wall: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...chmentid=86897

Right front: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...chmentid=86898

View of the left front: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...chmentid=86902

Seating area: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...chmentid=86899

General layout:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...chmentid=86900

More about the seating and relationship with surround & back speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...chmentid=86901

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