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post #61 of 148 Old 08-12-2007, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
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And now I need to figure out whether the ceiling will try to be taller than the bottom of those horizontal beams going across. I was thinking it could be, and they could be incorporated into the room, but that kind of blows the whole "room within a room" concept.

Of course, usually people do the room within a room to contain sound. I'm less interested in that than I am in dissipating it nicely whenever possible, rather than venting (reflecting) it back into the room -- within reason: I cannot keep the neighbors awake!
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post #62 of 148 Old 08-13-2007, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Figured out a new place to host some photos, since many of the previously posted links will die soon. So here is the story so far.

Started with an ugly broken down detached garage, with a really bad slab:












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post #63 of 148 Old 08-13-2007, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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And my initial thoughts about where to add a wall, and how to layout the space, have progressed:









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post #64 of 148 Old 08-13-2007, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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And then I've got the new slab in place, removed most of the stuff that needs to come out, and started sketching where things will go:













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post #65 of 148 Old 08-13-2007, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Next steps.... in addition to making some decisions about the ceiling



is to tear off the old drywall. Behind it I know we have 2x4 studs, with insulation bats in the stud bays. Hopefully I can leave that and use that.

And then I start to build a second wall, kind of like this one in the middle:



though I will build it on 2x6 sills.... so that, in the future, if I need to replace the outter wall, which is on poorer concrete than most of the new wall will be on, I can actually turn it into a staggered stud wall (like on the left).

And, yes, I'll be using green glue -- though I don't really have enough to do all the walls and the ceiling... so I'm thinking that if I'm doing the two wall setup on the the four walls, maybe I use most of the green glue on the ceiling, which may be, at best, isolated via RISC clips....

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post #66 of 148 Old 08-26-2007, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a drawing of the before and after intention for the exterior facing walls (top down view).

Why am I using a 2x6 sill for the interior part of the new wall? In the off chance that one day I need to remove the exterior wall I would probably rebuild it to make sue of the newer sill, on better concrete than the current exterior wall -- and have a staggered stub rather than dual wall.


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post #67 of 148 Old 08-26-2007, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Also here you will see a drawing of the floor. On top of this goes either a 1/2 inch carpet pad and dark wall-to wall carpeting OR a cheap (Ikea?) wood floor, and then a heavily padded, very large area rug (10' x 14').

I intend to leave about a half inch gap all the way around the floor against each wall -- where the soundmat goes up the wall an inch, and the OSB doesn't touch any wall. It's not clear to me that I will leave soundmat running up the wall at all -- I think I'll trim it at the height of the OSB when all is done. Then the only question becomes how to put a effective (not acoustically coupled, ie, touching wall and floor) floorboard in place.


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post #68 of 148 Old 08-27-2007, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Based on the above descriptions of how the walls will be constructed, and an assumption that the ceiling will be just ABOVE the joists, I've created a new room mode calculation that on the one hand looks OKAY from a peaks and nulls perspective at the listening position BUT has an ugly graph.

 

Home Theatre Calculator 16ft x 12 ft x 7.33 ft tall .zip 80.166015625k . file

 

Home Theatre Calculator 16ft x 12 ft x 7.33 ft tall .pdf 33.3818359375k . file
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Home Theatre Calculator 16ft x 12 ft x 7.33 ft tall .pdf (33.4 KB, 5 views)
File Type: zip Home Theatre Calculator 16ft x 12 ft x 7.33 ft tall .zip (80.2 KB, 5 views)

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post #69 of 148 Old 08-28-2007, 07:02 AM
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I'd be really curious to know what the condition of the walls are like once you take down the old drywall. Hopefully everything is sound and it isn't the home of any critters.

Anyway, keep up the fun work. I'm looking forward to seeing how things progress.

.................
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post #70 of 148 Old 08-28-2007, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I dread / anticipate pulling down the old drywall, especially on the back wall, where some vines from next door had grown through....

May get to it this weekend. I'll post pictures when I do. I have temporarily run short of cash, so the next couple months will be my own un-assisted and therefor slow labor

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post #71 of 148 Old 08-28-2007, 11:24 AM
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That is going to be a project! I am looking forward to seeing all your progress.

Laters,
Jeff

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post #72 of 148 Old 09-03-2007, 11:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Took down the drywall and old insulation today on the back wall, which was the wall I was most worried about. It's not as bad as I thought it might be. The insulation that was in there was pretty meager, and there was lots of dead (or bad looking) vines that had grown up into the wall. But the structure appears okay and there weren't batches of mold or critters.
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post #73 of 148 Old 09-03-2007, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Next step will be to try to "seal" the wall -- with serious primer, sprayed on very generously (or something better, if ya'all got a recommendation) and then some caulking, too, to hit the gaps at the base, sides and top where the plants were growing through. The neighbor has mostly let the plants on the opposite side of the wall die BUT one never knows what will happen in the future. For now, I've dumped a bunch of long acting weed killer along the base of the wall from the inside and into any cracks I could find.

I probably won't start framing the new "second" wall for the room within a room setup until I remove the drywall from the two other walls and do the same kind of treatment on those. Chances are good they are in the same condition, with without all the stuff growing in through the base of the wall.

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post #74 of 148 Old 09-05-2007, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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here's what it looks like











Note: The attached images are the same as what you see above, in case those don't load properly.
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post #75 of 148 Old 09-05-2007, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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and some of the problems...

Like the plants that were poking through (mostly into the space between the outer wall and the drywall, though occasionally into the room itself). There was a lot more plant matter, but I removed it before taking a photo.

I really need to figure out a good way (like spray foam or silicone or something) to seal the cracks at the floor and corners, to prevent repeat infestations.

Ideas?







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post #76 of 148 Old 09-05-2007, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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And then, of course, there is the old infrastructure (like the wiring) which I will not continue to use.



And the trash....




Note: The attached images are the same as what you see above, in case those don't load properly.
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post #77 of 148 Old 09-05-2007, 09:57 AM
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Spray foam ought to do the trick to seal cracks. You are right, that didn't look bad at all.

.................
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post #78 of 148 Old 09-05-2007, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Something like this?

http://www.fomo.com/handi-foam.aspx

http://greatstuff.dow.com/greatstuff/diy/index.htm

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post #79 of 148 Old 09-05-2007, 10:42 AM
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Yep. If it's a pretty small area use the slow expanding stuff so that you don't have it push your framing apart.

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post #80 of 148 Old 09-08-2007, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, filled in the cracks with spray foam:



It's a little messy but what the heck:



I feel like it's going to help.

I do need to do a few more things. I'll list those after showing what the other walls look like now.


Note: The attached images are the same as what you see above, in case those don't load properly.
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post #81 of 148 Old 09-08-2007, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Took the drywall off the other walls today. Pardon the mess. The lady of the house wanted me to eat dinner and clean up tomorrow....



That there (above) is the screen wall.

Then this is the back wall. I've got to figure out what to do about that window. I could just fill it in. It will never let light into the room, since there will be a second set of studs and drywall in front of it. BUT I'm wondering whether I should ALSO put a easily removable wall section in that second set of studs/drywall -- and consider it an emergency exit....




The other thing that is bothering me is there are actually some LARGER gaps between boards on the screen wall than there were on the problematic wall with the vines growing through. Luckily, the neighbor on that side (two of my walls are at the property lines) doesn't have anything growing up the wall. But the gaps are almost too numerous to seal with foam... though I may try.


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post #82 of 148 Old 09-08-2007, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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So the next steps are:

1: Get a paint sprayer like this:



and some good primer, and paint EVERYTHING IN SIGHT. Just to seal the wood better.



2. Get some kind of vapor barrier/sheeting, and put it up in each bay. Any recommendations?


3. Put up batts of insulation. Not sure what type yet. Probably put a batt in each bay AND one that straddles each vertical stud. I'll probably pull out the wiring about this time.


4. Start the framing for the walls. I'm thinking 2x4s, including the base plate. It won't touch any of the outside walls at all. I'm not sure yet whether to place the base directly on the concrete, or with a felt barrier or something between them. For that matter, I'm not sure whether to bolt these new walls to the concrete.


5. Then, run all the electrical in the new walls, like new construction.

6. Figure out the roof. (See next entry.)

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post #83 of 148 Old 09-08-2007, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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The "roof".

Well, actually, I mean "the ceiling" of the screening room. I think it will rest atop the new walls, that are not connected to the old walls. But if I build it flat, underneath the beams that are holding the outside structure together, the ceiling will be too low -- especially after adding a second later of drywall with Green Glue, and acoustic panels.




So, actually, I'm thinking of building "around" those beams. So most of the ceiling ends up being about at the top of those beams, but then it dips down to accommodate them (and not touch them). Then, I have great "bays" in the ceiling of the room that I can fill with acoustic material.

The idea is half-baked right now, but since that is weeks away at this pace (at best), that's okay.

---------------

For now, it's all about getting ready for boarding up one of the roll up doors, building a person sized entrance, and making sure the basic shell of the garage is in good shape....


We need to blend the old and the new, so we needed some vintage siding. Luckily the broken down shed we have had the same siding as the garage.... so it became the source for some of the siding (thanks, Kat!):

And then, inevitably, there is some damage that needs fixing. Interestingly, there was relatively little of that. But it did entail fixing the rotted supports in two corners:



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post #84 of 148 Old 09-18-2007, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Completed the structural parts of the shell this last week. What does that mean? That means we removed the tracks for the old roll up doors. We bolted one in place and saved the tracks. A future owner could re-enable it with little expense. The other door and tracks were totally removed and are now part of a landfill. In their place we put in a new wall, and a person sized door.

In the process, we discovered rot / pest damage to some structural members at the front of the garage. So we replaced those members with fresh pressure-treated 2x4s.

Then, we extracted some siding from an old shed we have, that is going to be torn down at some point, to cover up the new wall -- and it looks more or less like it has always been there.

Great to have some help from a couple of friends, in addition to paying one pro to be on the job for two days to make sure it all went smoothly.











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post #85 of 148 Old 09-30-2007, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Almost finished the framing this weekend. Still need some diagonal beams for more rigidity, and of course we need the ceiling. But here's where we're at now:

The space OUTSIDE the theater room within a room:






And then the theater room itself:









and if those images don't appear, here they are again:
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post #86 of 148 Old 10-01-2007, 05:27 AM
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Wow. You are making some good progress. This is the first time I have looked at this thread in a while. You will be done before you know it.

Gonzo


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post #87 of 148 Old 10-01-2007, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. Yeah, getting the framing up was like seeing the drawings and plans start to materialize. Now, I'll take a few weeks doing the wiring and getting insulation onto the walls the garage. Still having trouble finding insulation locally except for the limited choices at HD and Lowes. I think I want to insulate BEFORE running electricity and low voltage stuff, so that may become a problem that needs to be resolved.

The only thing I'm really still worried about it A/C and ventilation, which compromising my budget and the sound proof nature of the theater. But I'm sure I'll figure it out.

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post #88 of 148 Old 10-03-2007, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Next steps:
  1. Complete the framing -- ie, the rafters, including an OSB catwalk for later storage access over the room.
  2. Put in attic fan (in the garage roof) -- Chef's hat style.
  3. Hang the door.
  4. Put in a silent bathroom fan in the ceiling joists.
  5. Run the electrical:
  6. Place the boxes (2 double gang on each wall, and one single gang at each ceiling/wall juncture)
  7. Run the romex
  8. Run the low voltage:
  9. Place the boxes (8 double gang boxes)
  10. Run the low voltage
  11. Insulate the walls
  12. Drywall the ceiling
  13. FIGURE OUT THE A/C
  14. Put in place ducts / vents for ventilation
  15. Drywall the walls
  16. Paint walls and ceiling
  17. Put in floor (type is TBD)

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post #89 of 148 Old 10-08-2007, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Framing is more or less complete.

We added some bracing -- both to the existing exterior walls of the garage, and to all the new walls for the room within the room:



and where the strapping met, I tried to put felt and duct tape, to minimize any possible rattling, down the road:



---------------

You can see just how close the new wall and the old wall are. Nowhere do they touch, but now that I see how close the tolerances are (less than an inch in some places) I am a little worried that settling may occur and bridge the gap...





but I'm NOT going to tear it down and start over

----------------

The biggest deal is probably the rafters. This took some creative geometry. They are BIG and the working space is cramped. But they are all in place, now.



and now it is possible to see the emerging challenge of the old structure's rafters -- which run THROUGH the new room:



What'll we do? We plan to build a SOFFIT around them -- that essentially keeps them outside the sealed box of the room. Crazy, I know, but the only solution we could derive -- other than making the ceiling very low, actually attaching the ceiling to them (still too low, and wrecking our sound isolation), or re-building significant parts of the existing structure (not really a great option).

(the uploaded photos are the same as those above, in case those above don't appear correctly)
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post #90 of 148 Old 10-13-2007, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Starting the wiring. Ran out of speaker cable (Belden 10 gauge) so I'll have to wait for more to arrive. In the mean time, I'll complete the electrical, and do other low voltage wiring:

one run of RCA to each of seven positions (maybe two runs, if I find I have enough), which can be used for subs and/or powered speakers and/or monoblock amps at each speaker. This will be RG56 flexible 75 ohm cable, already terminated with RCA jacks -- it's monoprice video cable
one run, possibly two, of 75 ohm coax to each of seven locations -- which could be used as another RCA connection, or two. This will be Belden cable, not unlike what Blue Jeans uses.
one run of XLR cable to each of seven locations. Probably Audio-Technica. This is primarily for the balanced input on the powered speakers I plan to use. Of course, in the future, I could use unbalanced connections, or unpowered speakers and the speaker cable I'm throwing in there. At which time the XLR cables go dormant or are used for subs, etc.

All the above go to each of the seven low voltage boxes spread around the room.

In addition, I've got a new certified/tested hdmi 1.3 cable, and a set of Blue Jeans component video cables, which go to the projector location. These still need to be installed. Technically, the HDMI cable is not CL2 rated, but it's running atop and outside the walls.

Here is from outside the theater room, at the home run for all the cables, with most of the speaker cables here in place.



Here is the typical configuration along a wall. Low voltage comes down from the top, and the high voltage receptacles and wire will be run low, horizontal with the floor.



Here's a photo of the low voltage (in this case, speaker) wire heading back to the home run.



And, of course, the lovely whacky beams that sort of run through the room and will be soffitted around -- are turning out to be useful to get wire from one side to the other, since we have left little room elsewhere for that to happen -- unless I want to run it very long, and too close to the power lines.


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