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post #2671 of 2692 Old 08-16-2016, 04:19 PM
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No idea on how warm that transformer will run, but if you have rack space, then that inch brings you right back as
how to thread 350 pounds into the rack, safely.

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post #2672 of 2692 Old 08-16-2016, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
No idea on how warm that transformer will run, but if you have rack space, then that inch brings you right back as
how to thread 350 pounds into the rack, safely.
It does? Tho as I think I understand it, putting this power isolation transformer at the very bottom of the rack means that it can rest on the very bottom and have its mounting holes lined up, without it having to be suspended to do so.
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post #2673 of 2692 Old 08-16-2016, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Guys what do you recommend as the offsets for horizontal lacing bars? For instance I plan to use these bars as a way to keep the power cords organized at the isolation transformer, and to keep the wires going into the amp and prepro organized. The rack is 32" deep, 29" "usable". The prepro is 14" deep. The amps are 18" deep. The power isolation transformer is 22" deep. I'm confused about the "offsets" that the lacing bars are offered in.

For instance, the amps are 18" deep. The back of the rack is 32" deep. So that's a difference of 14". I figure I want the lacing bar about 4" (??) behind the back of the amps. They have a 10" offset bar (https://www.middleatlantic.com/produ...b-10r90-a.aspx), which I think it means it would be 10" inward from the back of the rack? So that would be at 22" from the front, meaning 4 inches behind the amp. Is that a good fit? They also have 2, 4, and 6" offsets (no 8"). For the prepro that is only 14" deep so with the 10" offset bar that would be 8" from the back which I guess is still fine - that will mostly just be holding a power cord and some HDMI cords from drooping.

Also what are nice looking 10-32 black screws with a nice finish without overpaying?
I think I can start to answer this question myself... Seems like the idea is to keep the lacing bars a good distance off the equipment because otherwise it can make it awkward to reach the connectors. Likewise it seems the idea is to run all the wires down one side, then a swooping 90 to run across the lacing bar left/right, then another swooping 90 to square up with the equipment. This seems obvious now. For whatever reason I was picturing running the trunk line down the middle of the rear which would just create a big obstacle.

So I think I'm going to try the 4" offset lacing bars and see how that works out. I'll put the rear rack rails about 2-3" from the rear and see how that works out. Part of the challenge is that I wanted to have it all figured out in advance and order all the accessories, shelves, etc up front. The reality is that this being my first rack I'm going to get the basics for what I know I need, start putting things together, and then learn from there what's working and what's not, what else I need, and order stuff to "fill in" those needs as I go.
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post #2674 of 2692 Old 08-17-2016, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
I think I can start to answer this question myself... Seems like the idea is to keep the lacing bars a good distance off the equipment because otherwise it can make it awkward to reach the connectors. Likewise it seems the idea is to run all the wires down one side, then a swooping 90 to run across the lacing bar left/right, then another swooping 90 to square up with the equipment.
Most equipment is not full rack depth deep so your offset concern is not as great as you think.

This is not a great image and not a show standard tidy rack but shows how close most equipment is to the non offset bars.


Last edited by SMHarman; 08-17-2016 at 10:36 AM.
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post #2675 of 2692 Old 08-17-2016, 10:42 AM
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Generally speaking I think most of my equipment will be around 17-18" deep, with a few pieces being 12-14" deep. With 17-18" deep it means the equipment will be about a foot from the rear rack rails, and about 1.5 feet from the 12-14" deep equipment. Seems like some offset, like maybe 4", would be good since it gives me some work area behind the equipment without having 12-18" wire run squared from the rack back to the equipment, which would droop over such a range. Anyway for starters I ordered the BGR rack and the casters and screws, nothing else. I'll start by racking the initial equipment and plan to figure it out as I go and as I get advice here. Thanks guys!
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post #2676 of 2692 Old 08-17-2016, 10:51 AM
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Anyone have a favorite Velcro or other such removable ties for small, medium and large wire bundles they can recommend from Amazon? Thanks!
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post #2677 of 2692 Old 08-17-2016, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Anyone have a favorite Velcro or other such removable ties for small, medium and large wire bundles they can recommend from Amazon? Thanks!
The Velcro-branded "ONE-WRAP" are what you want... The knock-off ones are not as good - but may be "good enough" for our usage.

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post #2678 of 2692 Old 08-17-2016, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Anyone have a favorite Velcro or other such removable ties for small, medium and large wire bundles they can recommend from Amazon? Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post
The Velcro-branded "ONE-WRAP" are what you want... The knock-off ones are not as good - but may be "good enough" for our usage.
VELCRO Brand - ONE-WRAP Cable Management, Thin Self-Gripping Cable Ties: Reusable, Light Duty - 8" x 1/2" Ties, 100 Pack - Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001E1Y5O6..._plnTxbA16H8GN
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post #2679 of 2692 Old 08-17-2016, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
It does? Tho as I think I understand it, putting this power isolation transformer at the very bottom of the rack means that it can rest on the very bottom and have its mounting holes lined up, without it having to be suspended to do so.
Is the bottom of the rack flat? And if the transformer has rack mounting ears, shouldn't they be up to the task of properly supporting the transformer?

What does the manual have to say about mounting options?

Isn't the mounting of a heavy item at the bottom of a rack all about rack stability?

And if you are worried about the weight and handling capacity, then why not simply add some 2x4" to the bottom of the rack, to carry some of the load?

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post #2680 of 2692 Old 08-17-2016, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
Here are a couple:





Although my favorite, we are talking about audio racks and this better qualifies. Equipment on a rack or vice versa.
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post #2681 of 2692 Old 08-18-2016, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMHarman View Post
VELCRO Brand - ONE-WRAP Cable Management, Thin Self-Gripping Cable Ties: Reusable, Light Duty - 8" x 1/2" Ties, 100 Pack - Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001E1Y5O6..._plnTxbA16H8GN
Thanks. What are the difference sizes like 1/4" and 7/8" useful, as compared to the 1/2"?
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post #2682 of 2692 Old 08-18-2016, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
Is the bottom of the rack flat? And if the transformer has rack mounting ears, shouldn't they be up to the task of properly supporting the transformer?
I think the bottom of the rack is flat. Please see this short video walk thru of the rack - this is the one I am getting (only its taller at 45RU):
. The isolation transformer is 7RU. The front of the unit has large rack ears that span several RU with multiple holes. However I don't see any output for rear rack rails. Perhaps that is not necessary if this sits on the bottom. I can't tell - does it look like the bottom of the rack would support the unit? Is it possible that very thick and heavy front rack ears would be sufficient to support something that's 325 pounds?
[/quote]

Quote:
What does the manual have to say about mounting options?
Not much. Just says to remove the 8 front screws to get the front face plate off to access the rack ear screws. That part looks easy enough. Each ear has two holes near the top about an inch apart and two holes near the bottom about an inch apart. So can the rack really hold this in place just with that? Humm. Well the rack is rated for 12,000 pounds and this is going on the very bottom. Casters are rated for 1,100 pounds so should be good there too.[/quote]

Quote:
Isn't the mounting of a heavy item at the bottom of a rack all about rack stability?
Yes. It will be going on the bottom. The transformer comes with wheels on each corner which make it easy to roll around on the floor. These are removable. However I kind of would like to keep those wheels on it and lose a few inches in the rack due to it. This way if it should ever need to come out for servicing it can be moved. The casters for the rack increase the rack height by 1". So I would lose 2" or 2RU lets' call it to have this racked with its wheels still on it (but a little off the ground). Does this sound worth it or a waste of 2RU?

Quote:
And if you are worried about the weight and handling capacity, then why not simply add some 2x4" to the bottom of the rack, to carry some of the load?
I'm not concerned about the weight and handling capacity. Someone earlier raised the question as a possible concern before knowing the specs. With 12,000 pound capacity and 1,100 pound capacity on the rack casters, and with my equipment totally no more than about 600-700 pounds I think I will be good in that department. This is one of the reasons I went with the BGR rack - just to have that "headroom" on the weight capacity knowing the transformer was going to use up 325 pounds of whatever capacity I had.
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post #2683 of 2692 Old 08-18-2016, 10:54 PM
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Can anyone recommend a good label maker, for labeling the wires in the rack? I'm looking for something fairly inexpensive that will get the job done effectively. This one https://amzn.com/B009NVTE5E seems to have good ratings. Something like that, or...?
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post #2684 of 2692 Old 08-19-2016, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Can anyone recommend a good label maker, for labeling the wires in the rack? I'm looking for something fairly inexpensive that will get the job done effectively. This one https://amzn.com/B009NVTE5E seems to have good ratings. Something like that, or...?
I used an Avery label sheet run through my printer.
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post #2685 of 2692 Old 08-19-2016, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Can anyone recommend a good label maker, for labeling the wires in the rack? I'm looking for something fairly inexpensive that will get the job done effectively. This one https://amzn.com/B009NVTE5E seems to have good ratings. Something like that, or...?
I have used this one and it works very well.
https://www.amazon.com/Brother-P-tou...ords=p+labeler
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post #2686 of 2692 Old 08-19-2016, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Can anyone recommend a good label maker, for labeling the wires in the rack? I'm looking for something fairly inexpensive that will get the job done effectively. This one https://amzn.com/B009NVTE5E seems to have good ratings. Something like that, or...?
The Rhino (industrial Dymo) models have specific support for making cable labels. If you get a general-purpose label maker, you may not get those 'modes'. Regardless, use the flexible nylon labels (or heat shrink!) for cables so they stay put...

https://www.amazon.com/RhinoPRO-Indu...ds=rhino+label

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post #2687 of 2692 Old 08-19-2016, 01:12 PM
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Now I see the disconnect....

I'd give up the 2U of rack space, if you have it to spare.

I could see building a sturdy wood box to fit in the base, with a thick top and then routing some slots
for the casters to roll into. Then secure the face plate, and let the casters carry the load.

I'd be leery of eight screws at the front, and none at the rear, carrying 325 pounds. Does the Isolation
Transformer manual say anything about optional rack rails, or brackets to support the rear of the
transformer?

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post #2688 of 2692 Old Yesterday, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfster View Post
I have used this one and it works very well.
https://www.amazon.com/Brother-P-tou...ords=p+labeler
When you make labels for your cables do you make tags out of them, or do you run it "along" the wire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post
The Rhino (industrial Dymo) models have specific support for making cable labels. If you get a general-purpose label maker, you may not get those 'modes'. Regardless, use the flexible nylon labels (or heat shrink!) for cables so they stay put...

https://www.amazon.com/RhinoPRO-Indu...ds=rhino+label
Thanks. Pretty pricey tho. What is the specific support for making cable labels - what's special about that? Flexible nylon labels? And what does heat shrink have to do with it - I thought that was a way to just insulate? Remember I'm a racking newb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
Now I see the disconnect....

I'd give up the 2U of rack space, if you have it to spare.

I could see building a sturdy wood box to fit in the base, with a thick top and then routing some slots
for the casters to roll into. Then secure the face plate, and let the casters carry the load.

I'd be leery of eight screws at the front, and none at the rear, carrying 325 pounds. Does the Isolation
Transformer manual say anything about optional rack rails, or brackets to support the rear of the
transformer?
So a couple friends helped and we got it in the rack without much fuss after all. There are no rear rack ears that I can find and the manual only mentions mounting in the front. The rack ears appear to be part of the entire steel chassis. So in other words these are not "ears" that are mounted to the unit, but rather "baked in" and are complete part of the chassis. I think that is how they pull this off. The unit is resting on the bottom lip of the rack across the entire front and is square to the face of the rack. If you try to push down on it from the back where it is "floating" it doesn't budge (won't budge if you try to move it up either). I'm not concerned about it because in the seemingly highly event the ears would fail, the bottom of the unit would drop maybe about an inch at the most. After seeing how this sits in the rack its no longer a concern.

The only annoying part is that for whatever reason, even tho it is a 7RU unit, on the left side the ears come up just a tad too high, which make mounting the next piece of equipment in the next rack space not line up with the screw hole enough. The right side is fine. This is despite the unit being perfectly flush on both sides. So this means I think that I will have to leave a 1RU blank above it, and I'm already getting short on space due to spacing out equipment (more on that in my next post). I plan to put a 2RU unit above it and maybe that will provide some more flexibility as to where the screw holes are. Perhaps it is my older 1RU gear that has its rack ears positioned wrong, as I never had that in a rack before.
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post #2689 of 2692 Old Yesterday, 08:28 PM
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Hey guys - I'll be starting to rack my gear in the coming week and am getting concerned about all the spacing I apparently need to leave between components. Even tho I got a 45RU rack, the space seems like it will disappear quickly. I have a 7RU power isolation transformer in the bottom. Then it looks like I will lose 1RU above that (doesn't run hot so otherwise I could mount something right above it) due to mounting holes not quite aligning (the 7RU unit is a hair too tall which makes the screw holes not fully line up for the next RU). So that's 8RU. I have a 4RU amp for subs with no vents in the top which vents out the rear with fans. So that's 12RU. The my other amps take me to 27 RU after leaving gap space in them.

Then my prepro that also has no fans and only top vents. That's 4RU, and with a gap for ventilation that is 5RU. Now I'm at 32 RU. I have a power conditioner / UPS which takes up 3 RU. That won't need any spacing. So that's 35RU just for the primary gear, leaving just 10 RU. Left are mostly 1RU and 2RU types of things like a Blu-ray player, PS4, cable box, video processor, stuff like that. As you can see the 45RU goes real quick! I guess this is one of those "it is what it is" type of things. I just wasn't really expecting to lose about 20% of the space due to ventilation. But alas I am a racking newb so maybe that is just customary and a detail that slipped by me in the planning. I suppose what I will need to do is get a smaller rack maybe half that height for the misc equipment once I run out of space. The gear I'd move from the main rack to the secondary rack would be stuff that's easy to move, like Blu-ray and STB. Things with huge amounts of wires like the amps fortunately would stay put so I wouldn't have to wire that up all again.

Anyway just wondering if you guys have run into this and how you've dealt with the need for ventilation. I should add that I have no front door, no rear door, and no sides - just completely open so lots of ventilation there. But this gear that has no fans and just vents through the top seems like it is not really made with racking in mind. That said, I'd rather have silent gear with no fans and need to leave space in the rack and need two racks, rather than have a bunch of noisy fans - even tho my rack is not in the room.
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post #2690 of 2692 Old Yesterday, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
When you make labels for your cables do you make tags out of them, or do you run it "along" the wire?
Along the wire. "Flags" get snagged when you try to move cables around...

Quote:
Thanks. Pretty pricey tho. What is the specific support for making cable labels - what's special about that? Flexible nylon labels? And what does heat shrink have to do with it - I thought that was a way to just insulate? Remember I'm a racking newb.
Heat shrink labels - they'll never come off!

Just have to make sure that the unit will print on the materials, and enough formatting options meant for printing stuff on cables. Now, for our purposes, the "advanced topic" features of cable-printers like auto-numbering and other professional/commercial/datacenter stuff isn't needed - so any decent label maker (as long as you can print on the flexible material - I haven't looked to know if it matters or not) may be sufficient.

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post #2691 of 2692 Old Yesterday, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post
Along the wire. "Flags" get snagged when you try to move cables around...



Heat shrink labels - they'll never come off!

Just have to make sure that the unit will print on the materials, and enough formatting options meant for printing stuff on cables. Now, for our purposes, the "advanced topic" features of cable-printers like auto-numbering and other professional/commercial/datacenter stuff isn't needed - so any decent label maker (as long as you can print on the flexible material - I haven't looked to know if it matters or not) may be sufficient.
Thanks. I'm starting to look at the higher end units such as the one you recommended. The lower end units have mixed reviews. In the earlier post you said "specific support for making cable labels" - can you please elaborate on that? What is the specific support. As for heat shrinking the labels - so you print the labels (and on what type of tape) and then you put clear heat shrink over it and "bond" it that way? Amazon link to the heat shrink that's good for that purpose please? For a wire that's about 3/8" diameter, which size tape 1/2", 3/4", 1" etc do you recommend? Thank you?
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post #2692 of 2692 Old Today, 03:37 AM
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lovingdvd: some ideas:

I use some small USB fans (there are larger ones too)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
on top of some components in my rack as needed: many components have USB ports that are switched, and the fans are very quiet: makes a big difference after a few hours of operation: run the air flow horizontally to vent the rack

regarding the rack spacing: I run into components like this that force you to use a spacer: the OPPO players with their rack ears come to mind: I have access to a sheet metal shop:I cut part of the bottom off a vented 1U spacer to solve that

Lastly: with very heavy components that only mount from the front, I always add a support at the rear: some kind of spacer like stacked furniture sliders or such that sit on the bottom of the rack

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