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post #91 of 180 Old 03-19-2009, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Dave. I like the sound of $200 for screen material much more than the other prices I've been seeing. Now I guess it is time to scan through the forum and find some good links on DIY screen construction to find the hidden costs.

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post #92 of 180 Old 03-19-2009, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Also - I updated the initial post with updated screenshots. I will update the sketchup model as soon as I find a good (and free) online file repository that provides linking, if such a thing even exists.

If anyone really wants to see the model, you can PM me with an e-mail @.

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post #93 of 180 Old 03-19-2009, 08:34 AM
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Velvet can be a bit spendy, but its all relative. You can plan on $50 - 200 for your frame depending on materials used.

I was looking at the first post - I saw you are planning OSB + drywall - I know there is a reference on Ted White's website suggesting OSB as an alternative material. What drove your choice there? Has it been hung yet?
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post #94 of 180 Old 03-19-2009, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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The choice to make the first layer OSB instead of DD+GG was structural. What I have right now is two 4" walls that are completely isolated with a 1.5" air gap (that is already constructed, but that is it - no OSB yet). It's fairly sound, but the interior wall is too flexible. I talked with the framers and my general contractor for the house and they both agreed that a layer of OSB across the entire inside of the room would significantly stiffen the room. Double GWB would also stiffen, but the OSB would be significantly less prone to failure due to shear forces. I considered OSB-GWB-GG-GWB, but I think just OSB-GG-GWB will give me sufficient sound isolation.

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post #95 of 180 Old 03-19-2009, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I have updated the initial post with the latest sketchup file.

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post #96 of 180 Old 03-19-2009, 11:09 AM
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Gotcha about the OSB - that makes sense.
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post #97 of 180 Old 07-09-2009, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Just thought I'd post a short update. The house is done and we are moving in, so my wife, justly, threw a bunch of boxes in the unfinished HT. As soon as we get all the boxes processed, I can get to actually building this thing. Which, unsurprisingly, could take up to 6 months. I've been working 80 hour weeks with no end in sight. The good news there is that it is paid OT, so the HT budget is getting some wiggle room.

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post #98 of 180 Old 07-14-2009, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I took a decent cut at the wiring diagram. Black is the speaker connections, red is unswitched power (you can see 3 different 20a dedicated runs from the breaker box if I am remembering what the electricians told me), and orange is the switched lighting for the room. Yellow is whatever needs to run to the projector, probably HDMI + 2-3 CAT5.


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post #99 of 180 Old 07-14-2009, 07:37 AM
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It's hard to tell by the pic, but it's a good idea to have the room's lighting on a different circuit than the equipment and outlets. I may have read this wrong though.
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post #100 of 180 Old 07-14-2009, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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No, you read it right. Since I have 3 dedicated circuits for this room, that shouldn't be a problem. It will make the run less clean, but it is doable. I'll have to research it, if you know of any relevant threads I'd appreciate a link. If not, I'm well versed on the search tool.

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post #101 of 180 Old 07-14-2009, 09:56 AM
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I'm a little confused when you say you have 3 circuits. In the pic it looks like there is only one wire going to your panel, feeding the whole room it's power. Is there 3 lines going to the panel?
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post #102 of 180 Old 07-14-2009, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, there are 3 different 20A runs from the breaker box to the HT. It's drawn that way in the Sketchup model, but hard to see on screenshots. From that I need to run lighting, all the equipment, and HVAC. I may actually have a 4th for the HVAC, but I have to attic crawl to find out and I haven't done that yet. We have 400A service for the house, so I should be able to get more runs to the room if needed, but would prefer to live with what we've got so far.

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post #103 of 180 Old 07-14-2009, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I confirmed that there are 3 electrical runs for the HT that are, if I recall, 20A each. There appears to be a 4th run for HVAC as well. I'm not sure if there are standard color codes, but the 3 20A ones are yellow, and the HVAC one is orange.

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post #104 of 180 Old 07-14-2009, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I reworked the wiring based on your suggestion, as it made sense to me. I'll probably be adding some accent lighting at some point, and it will go on the 20A lighting circuit, as will motorized curtains if I go that route.

Color Guide:
Yellow: 20A circuit from breaker box
Orange: ??A circuit from breaker for HVAC
Red: Unswitched high voltage
Teal: Switched high voltage
Green: Conditioned power
Black: Speaker Cable


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post #105 of 180 Old 07-14-2009, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh yeah, forgot blue. It is the HDMI/cat5 run to the projector.

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post #106 of 180 Old 07-14-2009, 10:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm also looking for some sconces like they have in the local theater, but it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. This is the closest thing that I have found:



But I'd rather not pay that much per sconce, I was thinking about a fourth of that. If anyone has seen anything like this and can point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.

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post #107 of 180 Old 07-16-2009, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
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First off, I spent some time cleaning up the original post. It now has up to date screenshots of the design. I also posted my current design sketchup model (0.9.3).

I took an initial cut at adding some bass trapping to the design:



I know this is probably nowhere near where it needs to be, but it's a start.

The gray is bass trapping material, the yellow is sand.

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post #108 of 180 Old 07-18-2009, 12:45 AM - Thread Starter
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After a short discussion in the "official" thread for the Panasonic PT-AE3000U, I decided I should go read the manual for this device. According to the manual, my placement options could be calculated via a formula in the manual. I used it to create a projector placement "box". Glad I did, because the projector in the current plan was outside it. The net result was I had to raise the screen 5". Here's the sketch:


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post #109 of 180 Old 07-24-2009, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I am considering turning this room around. Instead of having the screen immediately on the right as you enter the room, the riser would be straight ahead with a 3' path to the left and the screen would be on the far left wall (so basically just turn the inside of the room around 180 degrees and make some riser changes.

This would lessen the quality of the rear seats. If I stick with 4, one would be against the wall opposite the door, and the quad would be off-center in the room.

What this would buy me might make that worth while though. First off, there would be more wall-space as you enter the room for controls/switches. The front stage in the current design only has about 28" of depth for an 18" speaker. If I want to frame the screen with a nice pro-scenium (I think that's the right term), then the speakers will also have to be flush with the side walls. I think I've read you want about 3' between the side walls and the front mains. With the design change, I'd have about 3' behind the screen. I could actually move things around much more as there are no doors that limit what I can do with the front stage. The other benefit to the design change is that the A/V cabinet would be in the rear of the seating instead of up front by the screen.

I prefer the "walk into the big open part of the room" feel I've got with the current design, but the positives are starting to seem like they outweigh the negatives.

Input is welcome. I will try to post an updated screenshot of the design this evening.

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post #110 of 180 Old 07-24-2009, 02:15 PM
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I'd flip it. You might consider building the riser into your entry hallway and entering at riser height. What is in the room to the south of your theater in this plan? Anything other than utilities and you probably won't want to do that. Also, Is the door orientation going to be an issue - e.g. will the door hit the seats?

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post #111 of 180 Old 07-24-2009, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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If you mean the 2'-0 room, that is the A/V closet. There's a wall drawn in that drawing, but I'm planning to use a MA 40" rack there, so that is mostly open to the HT. It will be "inside" the sound shell of the room. The door won't hit the seats. It's a 2'8 I think (might be a 3'0) opening into a 3' corridor. The rear riser would not extend to the south wall.

If you mean the room that is barely on the plan, that is my study. I'd considered building up, but then I'd have a step down into my study, and I don't think I want that. Plus, that would mean me cutting up parts of the house we JUST finished, and my SO would probably "take issue" with that.

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post #112 of 180 Old 07-24-2009, 02:24 PM
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Yeah - I meant the study. If it was a seldom used space like utilities then the step down wouldn't be an issue (to me). I wouldn't do that for finished space.
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post #113 of 180 Old 07-24-2009, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I'm with you on that. Add to that the fact that the door opens out... getting to be a REAL easy decision.

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post #114 of 180 Old 07-24-2009, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are the screenshots for what I am thinking of doing.




Hopefully these give an adequate picture of what I'm thinking.

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post #115 of 180 Old 08-02-2009, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I'm trying to decide what to do for stage stabilization. I hear filling it with sand is a frequent solution, so I am adding this to the design. I will have 2 subs on the front stage (each front main L and R has a sub in it). Rather than filling the whole stage, I was thinking of just filling a platform under the speaker. Is there a reason that is a bad idea?


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post #116 of 180 Old 08-03-2009, 06:15 AM
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Might not be effective. I seem to pull the archives on this issue with some regularity. Here is one of my prior pulls.

Quote:


Here are some comments by Dennis on an attic theater he did - no sand -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridebreck View Post

I
Dennis, since this was built out in an existing attic space, I was curious if you could share a few of items:
1.) What kinds of solutions were put into place to maintain adequate attic ventilation - active ventilation with powered fans perhaps?
2.) Did you have to add larger joists to beef up the floor or were the existing joists already sized appropriately?
3.) What did the stage fill consist of?

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

1. There is more the adequate passive ventilation;
2. We did add new floor joists and 6' deep foundation pillars to support the additional structure weight;
3. No sand...too heavy.

Lots of good stuff in this thread too:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=14268609

Even more, in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=823565

Including these posts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

Here are the mechanics ...
Remember two things: Every action has an equal but opposite reaction and F=MA.
When the driver moves forward, the cabinet wants to move backward. A sub needs to be well anchored to something of considerably more mass than the sub in order for it to perform properly. Obviously a concrete slab has more mass. On the other hand, the sub is now mechanically coupled to the slab which is mechanically coupled to the house. Somewhere in your house, you'll have a second subwoofer ... a wall, floor, ceiling ... a few houses ago, it was a wall in my son's bedroom.

If you're building a stage, don't let any part of the stage contact a wall (1/4" separation works fine). Ideally, you'd have the stage framing on Acoutik Mat; but, if you don't, that's OK. When you fill the stage with PLAY sand, your stage now has considerably more mass than the subwoofer. The sand is a damping agent, absorbing the kinetic energy in the stage and converting it to heat. You've now eliminated or signifcantly reduced the energy transfer into your home's structure. Since a nice sized stage with sand has soooo much more mass than your sub, most of the energy the sub is producing ends up as acoustic energy in your room.

Not recommended for upper floors ... need a conversation with a structural engineer first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BritInVA View Post

I did pretty much what DKAPS did - but DE said was waste of time as not enough mass



So I'm wondering at what constitutes enough mass.

Cheers,
Mark

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post #117 of 180 Old 08-03-2009, 07:28 AM
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Fill the sub cavities with sand and the rest with insulation.
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post #118 of 180 Old 08-10-2009, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks pilgrim and hokie. These forums do a great job of notifying me of updates to every thread but my own. I guess I need to make sure I'm subscribed to my own thread! I'm dead tired tonight, but I'll try and read over that info as soon as I can dc_pilgrim.

Anyway, I'm making some changes. I've been trying to come up with a good inspired design and it is just not happening. So, SandmanX's theater looks nice, I think I'll just steal his. I'm sure I'll fall short, for budget and talent reasons, but that's no reason not to try. My equipment will be much lower end than his, but hopefully the bulk of the room will still achieve a similar aesthetic.

Needless to say, the sketchup design is going through massive changes. I'll post updates as soon as it is ready.

I also took a stab at a project to-do list. If you see any omissions or mistakes, please don't be shy about pointing them out:
  • Pour floor - done
  • Framing - Outer Room - done
  • Framing - Inner Room - done
  • External Decking / Brick - done
  • Door - Entrance - done
  • Wall Insulation - done
  • Wall Layer 1 - OSB
  • Wall Layer 2 - 5/8" GWB
  • Paint
  • Framing - Riser
  • Electrical Rough-In - Riser
  • Decking - Riser
  • Framing - Soffit
  • Framing - Stage
  • Framing - Columns
  • Electrical Rough In
  • Decking - Internal
  • Sound Treatment
  • Screen
  • Carpet
  • Speaker Install
  • Projector Install
  • Fabric Panels
  • Electrical - Final
  • Equipment Rack Install
  • Seating Install
  • Final Hook-up, component install

As usual, this has been incorporated into the original post.

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post #119 of 180 Old 08-11-2009, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, well it sounds like the stage needs to be the following:
  • Acoustik Mat placed directly on slab
  • Stage built directly on Acoustik Mat with at least 1/4" gap between all walls
  • Sand fill entire stage

Reading that got me wondering if I need to be worried about water for this room, and I'm thinking I do. Dricore? More research needed I think.

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post #120 of 180 Old 08-11-2009, 11:53 AM
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Bear in mind that is best practice. I'll be honest, I haven't seen too many do the acoustikmat. The base price (Ted White sells it, but its not on his site) isn't too bad. I am guessing the shipping might hurt a bit.
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