Framing starts soon and I'm not ready! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 147 Old 04-24-2007, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a layout for my home theater that is only 9'6" wide. The depth can be as much as 16'. The ceiling is 9'. I've been planning on two rows of 4 theater style seats. I will be using a ceiling mounted Epson 1080P projector. I'm thinking that a 16:9 screen would be best for my mix sources and content. That being said I don't hardly know where to start; but I'll try.

How big a screen should I go for? Due to the narrow room I'm thinking of placing the front speakers just below the screen to keep them away from the side walls and to allow for as big a screen as I can fit such as a 100" diagonal. Is this bad thinking? The front row viewing position will be about 8 feet from the screen.

I've been reading everything I can on this forum and elsewhere but the framing will begin way sooner than I can collect sufficient information by sifting through the incredible volume of information contained in this forum alone. After framing I think I'll find a little more time to collect my thoughts!
LL

My ongoing home theater project, the Shoehorn Theater.
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post #2 of 147 Old 04-24-2007, 08:52 PM
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You may want to think about doing an acoustically transparent screen and then speaker location doesn't limit your screen size. The DIY SMX screen solution may be worth researching. Speakers would go behind the screen.

Putting the speakers below the screen may cause some problems for the second row.

8 ft is pretty close for a 100 inch diagonal. 10-11 would be more comfortable.
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post #3 of 147 Old 04-24-2007, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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My thought process on the 100" screen is that I'll avoid the screen door problem with 1080p at the 8' distance and the back row is around 13' back so the 100" won't look too small from there. Is a 100" screen @ 8' still just too big at an 8 foot viewing distance?

I will check out the acousitcally transparent screens as this will allow me to get the speakers up to ear level.

My ongoing home theater project, the Shoehorn Theater.
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post #4 of 147 Old 04-25-2007, 04:50 AM
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I have a related question since I'm in a similar small-width environment. The general advice seems to be to have the speakers about 3 feet from the side walls, but if I followed that advice they'd only be 2 feet from each other (8 foot wide space) and basically right on top of the center speaker. My current plan is to have them about 6 inches from the side walls, treat the room and put the screen between them (the screen will about 70 inches wide at that point which is fine since I'm sitting maybe 9 feet away).

If I graduate to an AT screen at some point (not likely given the money), how much in should I push the mains to get some distance from the wall but keep the side-to-side imaging. Also, in terms of treatment, I'm going to do gernally what's recommended by the treatment thread, but are there special concerns related to being so close to the side walls?

Thanks.
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post #5 of 147 Old 04-25-2007, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BShaw@BedHandles View Post

I will check out the acousitcally transparent screens as this will allow me to get the speakers up to ear level.

there is a thread on this topic. Also if you haven't read the Sandmans Epic thread (recommended) here is his site as he has turned his passion into a DIY AT screen business.

http://www.smxscreen.com/forum/
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post #6 of 147 Old 04-25-2007, 06:38 AM
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While the Smx is a great AT screen your problem with that is that if you put the speakers behind the screen in your room that means the screen moves out, depending on what speakers you are using anywhere from one foot to two or three feet. my speakers are 12" deep and my faux wall is at 24" which gives me one foot behind the speakers which are rear ported. So as I say depends on your speakers. anyway it brings the screen closer than your 8' to the first row, my room is exactly 16' from the actual screen to the back wall and I have two rows of theater style seats at 9.5' and 12.5' with a 120" wide by 51" high 2:35.1 aspect Smx screen. viewing is fine from both locations but I think 8 feet might be too close and less than that [with screen coming forward from wall in your case] would deffinately be. and remember as far as closeness it is easier on the eye to go side to side then up and down.

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post #7 of 147 Old 04-25-2007, 07:05 AM
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McCall, excellent points.

As one solution maybe some high quality inwall speakers for the front and then he would only loose a few inches of depth.

Also curious, my HT2.0 plans are for a 120 inch (SMX in hand) 2:35. Curious what Proj and lens you are shooting?
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post #8 of 147 Old 04-25-2007, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm hoping that my theater chairs will be here soon and that means before the framing is complete. As you might be able to tell from my sketchy room layout picture, my main limitation is gaining access to the back row of seats from the door entrance. The narrow room doesn't allow much passage in and out. I will position the seats back as far as possible, remeasure the screen distance and make my final decisions at that time. McCall you make a good point regarding up-and-down. A 2:35 will give me a large screen without too much height and we will likely be biased toward more movie format content than 16:9.

I do have a 2x6 wall behind the screen so I could use in-wall speakers (you read my mind bigmouthinDC) to minimize the lost depth but I don't want to have my choices limited to that at this point.

My ongoing home theater project, the Shoehorn Theater.
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post #9 of 147 Old 04-25-2007, 07:16 AM
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Is sound isolation a consideration? If so, be careful with in-walls.

If its any consolation, my plaster just went up, I have read these forums for over two years, and I am still not ready either.
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post #10 of 147 Old 04-25-2007, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all of your input. After reviewing my HT plan I can offset my seats slightly to one side of the room and gain just enough room for a 14" passage isle to the back row. I can now push the front seats back to a more comfortable distance of 11' to 12' and allows for up to 2' behind the screen for speakers. I just hope the seats arrive before the framers because I want them to rough in the platforms.

A bonus of having the isle access is that it gives me a location for an electronics access door at the back of the room. Up to now, I was thinking that I would have to exit the room and go to my HVAC closet to reach my equipment to change a DVD.

I have an option to mount the projector from the ceiling at about 8' or recessed near the back of the room at about 13-16'. I've never had a projector system before and I'm concerned with fan noise and light leakage. I'll be using a 1200 lumen Epson 1080p projector on a 100" screen in a totally light controlled room. Do you think I'll regret the light loss if I mount the projector as far back as 16'?

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post #11 of 147 Old 04-25-2007, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

McCall, excellent points.

As one solution maybe some high quality inwall speakers for the front and then he would only loose a few inches of depth.

Also curious, my HT2.0 plans are for a 120 inch (SMX in hand) 2:35. Curious what Proj and lens you are shooting?


I am using the Optoma H77 and the Panamorph UH380 the measurement of the Projector lens, not the UH 380, to screen is 16'

Also to the OP,
you are aware that your riser and stage need to be isloated from the surrounding walls correct? Just thought I would mention that since you say your framers are coming.

I don't quite understand the 14" you mention but it is not enough for access to a row.

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post #12 of 147 Old 04-25-2007, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCall View Post

Also to the OP,
you are aware that your riser and stage need to be isloated from the surrounding walls correct? Just thought I would mention that since you say your framers are coming.

I don't quite understand the 14" you mention but it is not enough for access to a row.

Thanks and yes the stage will just sit on the floor and filled with sand. The riser will be rubber-foot isolated (for kickers), insulated, and topped with double plywood.

The 14" I'm referring to is the distance from a side wall to the side of a chair on the isle. I'm figuring the passage between the first and second row to be about 20".

My ongoing home theater project, the Shoehorn Theater.
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post #13 of 147 Old 04-25-2007, 10:13 AM
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try setting up some chairs with the 14" in the way you will have seats, I think you will find that it is just not enough especially if anyone other than small people ever need to get through, I assume you are doing all this sans permit? because that clearance would not be allowed either.
As for the passage of 20" between first and second is that 20" from someone's knees to the back of seats of row one? that would be minimum you would need.

where did you order your theater seats from? just curious I got mine from seatsandchairs.com. they were great to work with.

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post #14 of 147 Old 04-25-2007, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm doing this in my basement so permits aren't required, however, if I find that the 14" is just too tight I can remove a seat from the front row and center up the remaining three. This will provide a lot more room than the 14" I referred to and would leave a large egress isle to the second row but would still leave the narrower 14" passage isle to the back of the room that is for access to the equipment. I will set up some chairs this evening and try out the 14". My family and I are all on the small side so I'm thinking we'll be fine until we eat tubs of buttered popcorn and ju-ju bees every evening watching movies!

I just purchased my seats from seatsandchairs.com but have only worked with them by email so far. I've been sizing my seat spacing using the information provided on their web site. The 20" is the back-to-seat spacing with the seat of the chair raised. I'm planning on 40+ inches for back-to-back spacing. I'm really looking forward to receiving my chairs so I can experiment with layouts.

My ongoing home theater project, the Shoehorn Theater.
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post #15 of 147 Old 04-25-2007, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BShaw@BedHandles View Post

I'm doing this in my basement so permits aren't required

Are you sure permits aren't required? Just because it's a basement doesn't eliminate the need for permits.

I'm finishing my basement, including a theater, and I needed construction, electrical and mechanical permits. Around here skipping the permiting process usually means trouble selling the house since there's no guarantee the work was done to code.

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post #16 of 147 Old 04-25-2007, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Are you sure permits aren't required? Just because it's a basement doesn't eliminate the need for permits.
-drin

Well you've got me going this afternoon and now I know that I'm wrong about the permit. I've talked to quite a few people about permitting and so far I haven't found anyone that has pulled one for a basement remodel or has had a problem by not doing it. That being said, the City does require a permit whenever electrical, plumbing or mechanical work is done. I'm told that if I do go and get a permit I'll be asked to be Mayor as the most honest man in town. Too many pros and cons to list here about pulling a permit and I'm just going to have to sleep on it.

A good friend of mine was recently "pulled over" for remodeling without a permit and this was an extensive remodel including a new exterior siding and elevation, new roof, and the entire house was gutted to the exterior walls and the basement was finished. The inspector didn't even issue a stop-work order but did ask him to come in a pull a permit. I believe it helps when the inspector sees that you are using qualified and licensed subs. The permit was pulled and the work was completed without interruption. I do understand that an irritated inspector can make ones life misserable and cost a lot of money to satisfy as in ripping out drywall and insulation for a framing inspection. My basement remodel doesn't involve any load bearing walls, plumbing or even HVAC mods but they might still be difficult regarding wiring. We'll be following UBC codes in any case.

Like I said I'll have to sleep on it as I am the kind of person that would rather work with the system. I just don't like paying the additional property tax so I guess it really comes down to money; and with that being said I really don't want to have problems when I'm selling the home and losing money at that juncture either. They just reassessed my house this year and my property tax increased an additional $2K this year alone. Since I'm finishing about 2000 square feet I think I might go up about this much again and for each year that I live here.
hmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . . .

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post #17 of 147 Old 04-25-2007, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
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Well you've got me going this afternoon and now I know that I'm wrong about the permit.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings.

Quote:


I believe it helps when the inspector sees that you are using qualified and licensed subs.

Again, I don't know what it's like there, but here unless you're paying them cash and make it plain that you don't have a permit most subs won't touch any home projects. In fact, the reputable sub-contractors I've talked to here won't approach a project, even for cash, if there's no permit involved. A good sub will factor the cost of their permit into their quote and will pull it before they start work. It's just too risky for them since they can lose their license for doing work on a non-permitted project.

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post #18 of 147 Old 04-26-2007, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm in the Midwest and things seem to be a bit different here. I keep asking but I haven't found anyone yet that pulled a permit to finish their basement. My builder has really become a friend over the years. He built our home for us several years ago and we lived in a home he built previously. He's a high end custom builder and only handles one at a time. We had a long talk about this yesterday and he says "it's up to me". The electrical, HVAC and plumbing subs are licensed bricks-and-mortar companies. He says it's typical that main living spaces are finished and just after the CO is issued the basement finishing begins without pause; all this to avoid property taxes.

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post #19 of 147 Old 04-26-2007, 06:18 AM
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I have the theater seats as I said before and I can tell you right now that 20" is NOT enough. neither is the 40", I ended up with 54" try sitting in a folding chair or something similiar and measure from your back to your knees, then with feet slightly extended.
This makes the difference between an nice theater experience and claustrophobia, and real uncomfortable watching.

Which seats are you getting from them? I promised to send them pictures of mine when the entire theater is totally done.

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post #20 of 147 Old 04-26-2007, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, that's good to know. The seatsandchairs website refers to a 38" minimum spacing but I guess they really mean minimum. I'm not going to make any final decisions until I receive the seats and set them on a sheet of plywood and experiment with spacing. I have room for 54" back-to-back spacing and still leave some space behind the rear seats. Not as much as is ideal for sound quality; but enough. The seats are the "Star Delights" in black. I saw them on their web site and they also have them on eBay with free shipping. I took the free shipping!

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post #21 of 147 Old 04-26-2007, 06:59 AM
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Ah, that style is Very similiar to mine in overall styling. I have 24" behind the back of my second row where I have my rear speakers, REVEL M22's mounted and between them is my projector and anamorphic lens. it is not much room but the overall sound field in the room is really great. I also recently added a second Subwoofer ON the riser behind the second row, I have bass shakers mounted in the riser as it is but the addition of the sub to the riser has significantly increased the overall effect of explosions ect.

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post #22 of 147 Old 04-26-2007, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I looked up the REVEL M22's - sweeeeeeet!

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post #23 of 147 Old 04-27-2007, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, well, so I decided to pull a permit to finish my basement. I Went down to city hall and asked for the permit application. They asked me if it was for new construction. I said, no I'm just finishing out my basement. She said "well if that's all you're doing then you don't need a permit." I must have looked stunned because it made here think again and she said "well you might if you're adding a bath." I told her that I'm putting in fixtures but the sewer drains are already in from the original build. She then said "Then you don't need a permit, have a good day." End of story.

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post #24 of 147 Old 04-27-2007, 02:42 PM
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Good deal! Congratulations!

Around here if you stack lumber in your driveway you'll have an inspector at the door within two days asking what you're doing and if you have a permit to do it.

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post #25 of 147 Old 04-27-2007, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Good deal! Congratulations!

Around here if you stack lumber in your driveway you'll have an inspector at the door within two days asking what you're doing and if you have a permit to do it.

-drin

My nightmare scenario is that I have drywall up and an inspector comes in and says "Remove the drywall and insulation so we can see the framing, electrical and plumbing, son."

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post #26 of 147 Old 12-31-2007, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, things have been moving along and I just finished the doors. Since I'm finishing my entire basement it seemed like everything just kept getting in the way of working on my theater. The theater space is quite small so I thought I'd have fun with the entrance. You know, if you don't have a lot of steak you might as well have a lot of sizzle! The entire entrance and poster displays are drywall with bull nose corners. The cylindrical surfaces are stick built with curved drywall. The doors are padded and vinyl covered. The posters are dry mounted (don't do this with any posters of value) and then floated several inches off of the back wall. Behind them are rope lights for backlighting and then a little front lighting with small spots. The marquee lights chase and the surface above them and behind them as well as the "windows" in the portholes are smoked Plexiglas mirror. This treatment doubles the apparent number of chase bulbs and completes the half-circle to appear to be a full circle. The porthole mirrors give the impression of a darkened theater interior without letting light into the interior. Eventually, I will add my theater "name" as that is what the center-upper lighting is meant to highlight. The interior has begun but nowhere near finished. Hopefully, my interior work will be worthy of posting later on. I'm hoping to watch the Super Bowl the February. I'm such an optimist!




LL
LL
LL

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post #27 of 147 Old 12-31-2007, 11:31 AM
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I Love your doors I also did art deco doors for mine still have to get the Main one up in fact. I think I might pirate your sidelite idea. am doing sidelights by my door but was going with a cabinet that opened with glass front that was painted with art deco designs and lighted from inside but I have a very thin area to work with about 9" tops per side so using blocks as you have might be my answer as well.

anyway your's looks fabulous. Love to see the rest of it.

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post #28 of 147 Old 12-31-2007, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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The lighting behind the sidelights is great for tight spaces. I used an 8' clear plastic fluorescent protective tube from HD and pulled a clear (white) 18' rope light through it doubled back over itself three times. It's unlikely to need servicing but I can get to it from inside the theater if I ever need to do so. The colors are simply colored gels that wrap around the clear tube so you can do whatever color(s) you want. Of course it's dimmable doesn't generate much heat and doesn't hum. I started out with the idea of using fluorescents but didn't like the possible noise or maintenance issues and dimming is expensive.

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post #29 of 147 Old 12-31-2007, 02:44 PM
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outstanding, those handles caught my eye.
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post #30 of 147 Old 12-31-2007, 02:54 PM
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Fantastic doors! Do we get to see inside?

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