Flaming Oak Cinema (A Cathan Production) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 2687 Old 05-21-2007, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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EDIT MAY 17, 2010:

Welcome to my now completed the Flaming Oak Cinema thread. After almost exactly three years of work, this build is now done. You can read all about my journey over the next 90 or so pages. There were many ups and many down, but in the end I'm pretty happy with what I managed to accomplish with zero prior construction experience. But without the help of this forum's many passionate and giving participants, none of this project would have been possible. So to all of you, thank you. Now enjoy the show...









I will be posted a summary thread and index here in the next few weeks.

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post #2 of 2687 Old 05-21-2007, 01:23 PM
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Uhh, it is about time. Get to work!

And don't worry about the whole time table thing. Each year I swear I will be done by next football season (just 3 months away )

I look forward to your progress.

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post #3 of 2687 Old 05-21-2007, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Greetings!

It's been nearly a year in the making, but it's finally time to step out of learning mode and enter the planning and building phases. After hundreds of hours of reading some fantastic threads (Chinadog, SMX, Swithey, Mark, BIGmouthinDC, ebr, Zinema, and ChinaClipper and many, many more) and trying to unravel what the pro’s know (BPape, Dennis, Terry, Ethan and others), I think I'm ready to start putting plans into motion.

But a word of warning, if you are reading this expecting a non-stop action type build thread, you may be disappointed. This thing is going to take me a while, maybe even a few years. I promise that if you do chose to tune in to my occasion posting, that I’ll try not to bore you. This is going to be a long journey for me, but hopefully it will be a fun one.

Over the next few days I going to start putting some of my ideas down on paper, start posting some photos and design ideas in order to help define the scope of the project. Like many of you, I have to work for a living, but I should be able to sneak in the occasional update during lunch, breaks and in the evenings after work. So I hope you stay tuned for the creation of the …



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Originally Posted by mbgonzomd View Post

Uhh, it is about time. Get to work!

And don't worry about the whole time table thing. Each year I swear I will be done by next football season (just 3 months away )

I look forward to your progress.

Hehehe, thanks Gonzo. I have been bitching about not being able to start for a while now, eh? I can't tell you how good it feels to have the go ahead to start.



Now I'm sure you are wondering what the scope of the project is going to be. Well at the moment I have a bunch of ideas, but not all of them are firmly fleshed out. But what I know that I want in the end is a space in the basement (currently completely unfinished) in which my wife and I can invite a few friends over to watch movies, special TV events, football and the occasional late night cooperative Halo-fest. So I'm absolutely thinking dedicated room, CIH screen, sound isolation, double drywall/GreenGlue, dark ceilings, acoustically optimized via treatments, one hell of a subwoofer, riser, recliners and did I mention, one hell of a subwoofer.

Currently we have a completely naked basement. It holds some stuff and contains our workout gear and laundry machine, but otherwise it's pretty empty.

Here are some photos of what I have to work with.

The lobby space:


The theater back wall:

The view looking towards the front:

The view looking into the lobby:

View of a stupid pole and beam:

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post #4 of 2687 Old 05-21-2007, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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As you can see it's not bad space. Basically I'm thinking a layout that looks something like this:


You'll have to excuse my noob Visio skills and the spelling error. I've only just started playing with the software and I really am a crappy speller.

If you look closely at the design I'm just not sure what to do with that second pole that is in the current false wall. I'm hoping to perhaps integrate it into the screen wall. The space that is available behind the screen wall is basically limitless. I am however hoping to perhaps build a beast of subwoofer similar to what ebr has done. clickie

Also, the measurements are concrete to concrete, so not the final interior room dimensions.

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post #5 of 2687 Old 05-21-2007, 07:01 PM
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I'll be tuning in for sure!!!

But somehow, I still think it will end up a non-stop action type build thread despite your disclaimer!!

Looking forwards as well -
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post #6 of 2687 Old 05-21-2007, 07:15 PM
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Congrats on your decision to post a thread about your slow-track theater construction. Your situation sounds identical to mine. I've been lurking for months, gathering knowledge. I just started the construction about a month ago, and admittedly it is not the most important project going on right now. (The house does not have a deck, and the wife pretty much will give me free reign in the theater if I get the deck built this summer. So my theater is now a rainy-day project! Hmmm ... I just thought of a name for the theater ...) I've resigned myself to the fact the theater will take years to build. I have been hesitating to post pictures of my work to date. Your reception here was very warm, though. Maybe I need to rethink my thread decision ...

I'll be reading your thread with great interest. Please try to stay two or three weeks ahead of me, I'll know what to do next ...

It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Brian
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post #7 of 2687 Old 05-21-2007, 08:18 PM
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I gotta ask, can you move that pole?

Oh, and about time.
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post #8 of 2687 Old 05-21-2007, 09:36 PM
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Welcome to the build! Looks like a cool space :-) oh and by the way I know about slow builds.... BigmouthInDC just compared my thread to waiting through an entire episode of American Idol just to see who gets kicked off!

Can't wait to see your space take shap!
-Cam

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post #9 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 05:54 AM
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Excellent news Michael. Can't wait to see the theater take shape!

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post #10 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is a short (40 second/10MB) video for those who would like a quick tour.

Click for Video

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post #11 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the encouragement gang. I expect I may need a lot of that over the ...ehhhh... seasons to come.

dc-pilgrim - Whether I can move that pole is a fair question. I just don't know the answer. That beam runs from the pole to the back wall. And the ceiling joists rest on the beam and are cut to length. I imagine moving the pole to increase room width of the room would be cost prohibative. However moving the pole a few feet along the beam to create more depth could be a posibility if I really needed the space. The question is what would that get me? Any thoughts?

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post #12 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 08:36 AM
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You've taken the "second" step. The first is obviously getting "approval" from the spousal unit!

I am honored to be include with the likes of Ruben, Chinadog, ebr et al. Wow!

Your space is indeed very similar in size to mine. (~13'x19')

You're right-it WILL take lots of time, and won't be done in two weeks. Like someone wisely told me a year ago, there will be many stumbling blocks, and many decisions, and many small barriers to your success.

And, you will overcome all of them.

I still insist that the funnest, THE funnest part of the whole project has been the absolute astonishment of friends, family and the like when they see that incredible picture, hear that beautiful sound, and then say something like "you did ALL this yourself?!?!?!?!"

Best of luck on your journey, you will NEVER really be "finished" finished, but the end result will give you lots and lots of pleasure.

I'm not quite finished myself, still gotta get those columns up, wall treatments, and the carpet, and the projection booth......

Best,
Tom
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post #13 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 08:59 AM
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Michael, congrats on getting started!!

I like your ideas. One question though - is there a reason you're not putting the screen wall on the opposite end? You could work the pole into a wall along the riser (i.e., rear seats sit in an "alcove"). Then you could make your equipment closet in between the two poles and behind the front seats and roughly inline with the front of the rear seats. You could also put your PJ in the back wall and keep any fan noise out of the theater. Not sure if that makes sense. If you fire me your Visio file I could probably show you what I mean.

Looking forward to watching your progress!

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I still insist that the funnest, THE funnest part of the whole project has been the absolute astonishment of friends, family and the like when they see that incredible picture, hear that beautiful sound, and then say something like "you did ALL this yourself?!?!?!?!"

This is absolutely true!

Craig

No changes are permanent, but change is - Peart
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post #14 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 09:27 AM
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Michael,
If you do what Brew is suggesting, you would be able to get the back row a few feet off the wall, which will make those seats sound a little better. You would probably have to shift the back row out of center, but that would likely not be that big of a deal.

You may want to consider shifting the rows to the far wall even if you keep the set up as is. Currently without walls your room is 165" wide. Subtract a minimum of 11 inches for the walls (if 2x4 construction and 2 layers of 1/2" drywall and 1" air gap---even more if staggard studs and 5/8 drywall x2). If you are doing a typical recliner seating, 3 seats is usually about 105", which leaves walkways of about 24" on either side. If you are going to have columns, they will likely encroach on the walkway even more. Just some food for thought while in the planning stages.

I like the video, did you get it right on the first take?

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post #15 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Clipper - You should absolutely make the list. Afterall, I figure if you could manage not to destroy your house, I couldn't possibly do too much harm.

Strange/Gonzo - Flipping the room is something I have throught about, a lot. If there was a way I could move that pole six feet or so back along the beam it would give me the "ideal" space for what I want. HVAC, projector location would also be a plus. And I'd get a few more inches of ceiling height over the second row riser.

Anyone know how feasable it is to move a pole so that it's not sitting at the end of a ceiling beam? I would even care it it resulted in having to add a second pole somewhere further down the span.

Gonzo - The video took five or so takes. I had to keep it under 40 seconds, so that took a few tries. Plus my wife came down to poke fun at me ruining one of my better attempts.

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post #16 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 10:51 AM
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Michael, check out the beginning part of my HT thread. I detailed how I moved 2 poles in my basement. It can be done, and its not too bad on the wallet. I did it for about C$1800. If you want more details, let me know.

I really think you should flip the design if you can. Don't let the support pole hold you back. There's enough expertise here to help you through it.

Craig.

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post #17 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 10:55 AM
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I have just about the exact room measurents you have, but was unable to have a 120" screen when having a 3' 8" area behind due to the throw distance of my Panasonic projector. I was going to use this space as the equipment room as well as electronic test workbench space and have access via the laundry room next door.

Just make sure you check your projectors throw distance before starting production. My Panasonic would have reduced the size to only 84". This was unacceptable, so I scrapped the idea.

Rinker Family Cinema Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ghlight=Rinker
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post #18 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 11:15 AM
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Two words - "About Time" now just keep the draining Scotland to a minium during the build - especially when working with power tools.

Cheers,
Mark

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post #19 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Craig - I will very well will want to chat about your pole moving experience. I think the first step is hiring an engineer to look at it to see what can be done, and then deciding if the scope of the work is something I'm comfortable doing myself or if I need to hire it out. Given that I also need to have the bathroom rough plumb put in, I may be able to combine the jobs.


Satelite - Screen size and projector selection will get worked out a bit later down the road. Once I know the room size I'm actually working with and seat locations set, I should be able to get a better idea of projector location. Besides, who knows what will be out on the market a couple of years from now. But point definately taken. Thanks!

Mark - "About Time" No kinding, right? Can't promise that my Scotch vise will taper off much though. Everytime I think I've put a dent in the supply, those silly folks on Islay make more.

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post #20 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 12:02 PM
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From what I see in the photos, the lally column supports a steel beam from its end. I don't see why you wouldn't be able to move it 30" down the beam, so the beam cantilevers into the theater room. Might need a larger column. And a footing for it below the frost line. And a structural engineer.

Flipping the room, though, sounds like an easier plan.

It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds.

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post #21 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Moving that pole really is what I'd like to do. It just makes sense. I'll draw up a rough plan of a flipped design and post it ater this week

Anyone know what hiring a structural engineer costs? Any referrals for the NoVA area?

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post #22 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 12:40 PM
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Michael, the engineer cost me $800. That was for "sealed" drawings that were good enough for our municipality to issue a building permit for. From my experience, there are a bunch of these structural engineers who do this stuff all the time. Do you have the original blueprints of your house? That will make their job a whole lot easier and may save you some money.

Craig.

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post #23 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathan View Post

dc-pilgrim - Whether I can move that pole is a fair question. I just don't know the answer. . . . However moving the pole a few feet along the beam to create more depth could be a posibility if I really needed the space. The question is what would that get me? Any thoughts?

Hope you weren't expecting me to answer the tough questions. - I was just thinking 3'8" is a lot of space behind the screen. I can see maybe 30" or so depending on treatments and speakers (and comb filtering). I have 18" allocated to mine, but my room is only 17' long.

Given NOVA, (I used to live there) an engineer is probably double what the midwest guys would pay.
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post #24 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 12:48 PM
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Michael,
great to have a new theater build thread going - especially that you mentioned my little thread together with these outstanding work of some very talented guys!

I will follow your build, that's for sure - since we have at least 3 things in common:
1. you like dogs
2. you are a fellow scuba diver (or is it surfing?)
3. it seems you like my HT build

And don't forget - keep pictures coming....

Mike

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post #25 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 01:08 PM
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I saw those suits hanging from the ceiling. I have the same Henderson Hyperstretch.

It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Brian
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post #26 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_pilgrim View Post

Hope you weren't expecting me to answer the tough questions. - I was just thinking 3'8" is a lot of space behind the screen. I can see maybe 30" or so depending on treatments and speakers (and comb filtering). I have 18" allocated to mine, but my room is only 17' long.

If I were to keep the design as posted, the wall behind the screen wall is completely variable. I just through down a random depth. I will be building a massive sub (think 100+ sq foot enclosure) behind the screen so will need a bit more space than the typical screen wall.

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post #27 of 2687 Old 05-22-2007, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sands_at_Pier147 View Post

I saw those suits hanging from the ceiling. I have the same Henderson Hyperstretch.

Yep. We're avid divers. I was looking to get into the more technical side of diving, but this project is going to take a chunk out of my play money. By the end of the summer I will hopefully be practicing with doubles, although only within rec diving specs.

Zinema - what I like most of your build is the use of light woods. As we renovate parts of the house I've been bringing more and more maple in for things like kitchen and bath cabinets. I'm envision using maple for the theater trim thereby bringing in some of the things that you did with a few of ebr's ideas as well. That keeps the house's overall design and use of materials pretty consistant. I always hate homes where it feels that each room was frankensteined together. We keep a pretty consistant palet throughout and that includes the wood.

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post #28 of 2687 Old 05-23-2007, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_brew View Post

Michael, check out the beginning part of my HT thread. I detailed how I moved 2 poles in my basement. It can be done, and its not too bad on the wallet.

I did it for about C$1800.
Craig.

Hey Craig, what's that in REAL money?????
hehehehe just kidding!

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post #29 of 2687 Old 05-23-2007, 08:22 AM
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Michael,
I did the post removal thing. It cost about $500-600 for the engineer and about $500 labor and materials. So I bet you would be in the $1000-2500 range in NoVA.

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post #30 of 2687 Old 05-23-2007, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I just hate the premium costs we have to pay in this area. Just another reason to be self-sufficient and go the DIY route. I have some down time later today, so plan on calling a few local engineer firms.

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