What I'd do differently next time. - Page 29 - AVS Forum
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post #841 of 866 Old 07-31-2014, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by LoudDad View Post
All you guys are talking about how much power you ran to your rooms and that's great.
RedJr, seems like you have a total of about 125 amps running to your room on the different circuits (but obviously limited to 100 by your panel).
My question is, did you guys actually need to upgrade the service to your house?
I think I have 200 amps coming into my main panel for the entire service for my house.
I can easily just run a 100 amp sub-panel for the theater, but I'm wondering if that's been a problem for anyone and they actually needed to upgrade their service from the street.


Thanks,
Bill.
I don't think my max load will ever overrun my sub-panel. Not only is it about load, it's also about convenience. I just wanted to have more available outlets than normal. So I ran more circuits with fewer outlets. In my particular situation I knew it was overkill, but the stratgey I wanted to deploy nonetheless.

Don't get me wrong, between my son and I we have a lot of computer and audio gear, so in that regard we're probably not normal. He's running a 1kw PSU in his gaming rig upstairs! In my reno I also included a small electronics shop next to my media room where I didn't want to skimp on power either. Bottom line is - we'll likely never have all the stuff on at the same time, so I'm not really worried about tipping the scale on our 200amp main service panel.

I did not upgrade service from the road, but it was a question I posed to my electrical inspector before I started. I was originally planning on having a 60-amp breaker feeding my sub-panel, but since I wired with #2 gauge SER grade cable, I decided at the last minute to have the electrician put in a 100amp breaker in the main service panel. I just got the last couple of circuits wired up last night. I have two electric baseboard heaters (220v) that still need to be installed in the rec room though.

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post #842 of 866 Old 07-31-2014, 07:25 AM
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One thing I'd do differently is get better education and job so I have enough money to buy the equipment I really like..LOL.
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post #843 of 866 Old 07-31-2014, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
One thing I'd do differently is get better education and job so I have enough money to buy the equipment I really like..LOL.
If I am reading right, do you have a MBA? Should be doing pretty well with that.
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post #844 of 866 Old 07-31-2014, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
If I am reading right, do you have a MBA? Should be doing pretty well with that.
But I want a 100K system...LOL . With MBA you get a 35K system with all other interests and necessities. Maybe a lawyer or doc next time

Last edited by smuggymba; 07-31-2014 at 11:17 AM.
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post #845 of 866 Old 07-31-2014, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
But I want a 100K system...LOL . With MBA you get a 35K system with all other interests and necessities. Maybe a lawyer or doc next time
Any job today is a good job.
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post #846 of 866 Old 08-08-2014, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
Maybe a lawyer or doc next time
This lawyer doesn't have a $35,000 system. Shoot for the doctor!
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post #847 of 866 Old 08-08-2014, 01:13 PM
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This lawyer doesn't have a $35,000 system. Shoot for the doctor!
LOL.

I'm saving towards 35K now, hopefully I'll at least have 35K room soon.
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post #848 of 866 Old 08-13-2014, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by hdtheater View Post
I would have stuck my center channel below the screen and fire it through the GOM instead of pay for a perforated screen that gives off a MOIRE pattern. Not much you can do to fix that.
MOIRE pattern ?
many people prefer perforated since the center peaker is at the right height

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post #849 of 866 Old 08-13-2014, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by LeBon View Post
Per Erskine Group recommendations, I am using a 240 V. 30 A. receptacle for all the equipment power. Then a step-down transformer which will handle a total of 5 KVA at 120 V. Thus all the equipment is on the same "phase".
Can you explain this one?? I have a 10/3 (white, red, black, and neutral) wire, hooked up to a 30 amp circuit breaker run to my AVS equipment closet... I am just frankly, not sure how to use it!! I had an existing 30 amp breaker that I wasn't going to use for the original intent, so, just re purposed it for my AVS closet. I am just not exactly sure how to terminate the closet end. I am not sure what a step down transformer is and how it would work (e.g., do I shook up a 4 prong outlet to terminate the wire in the closet, and the transformer plugs into that - and the transformer has 'normal' plugs on it???)
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post #850 of 866 Old 08-13-2014, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by kmhvball View Post
...I am not sure what a step down transformer is and how it would work (e.g., do I shook up a 4 prong outlet to terminate the wire in the closet, and the transformer plugs into that - and the transformer has 'normal' plugs on it???)
Basically the step down transformer steps the 240 V. 30A down to 120 V. 60A, and all 60A ends up on the same "phase". I will put a NEMA 6-30R 240V. receptacle in the equipment closet, and plug the rack-mounted step-down transformer/power distribution box into it.
Here is a link to a step-down transformer - http://www.middleatlantic.com/produc...ansformer.aspx
I will be using the Powercore EP-Core-5R here - http://www.exactpower.com/products/rmpcore/rmpcore.aspx
Take a look at the white paper on power distribution here - http://www.middleatlantic.com/resour...te-papers.aspx

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post #851 of 866 Old 08-13-2014, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBon View Post
Basically the step down transformer steps the 240 V. 30A down to 120 V. 60A, and all 60A ends up on the same "phase". I will put a NEMA 6-30R 240V. receptacle in the equipment closet, and plug the rack-mounted step-down transformer/power distribution box into it.
Here is a link to a step-down transformer - http://www.middleatlantic.com/produc...ansformer.aspx
I will be using the Powercore EP-Core-5R here - http://www.exactpower.com/products/rmpcore/rmpcore.aspx
Take a look at the white paper on power distribution here - http://www.middleatlantic.com/resour...te-papers.aspx
Any idea how the EP-Core-5R and Middle Atlantic ISOCTR-5R-240-2 compare? If I remember correctly (I'm not quite to equipment purchase phase) that Middle Atlantic is quite a bit less expensive than Exactpower.
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post #852 of 866 Old 08-13-2014, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBon View Post
Basically the step down transformer steps the 240 V. 30A down to 120 V. 60A, and all 60A ends up on the same "phase". I will put a NEMA 6-30R 240V. receptacle in the equipment closet, and plug the rack-mounted step-down transformer/power distribution box into it.
Here is a link to a step-down transformer - http://www.middleatlantic.com/produc...ansformer.aspx
I will be using the Powercore EP-Core-5R here - http://www.exactpower.com/products/rmpcore/rmpcore.aspx
Take a look at the white paper on power distribution here - http://www.middleatlantic.com/resour...te-papers.aspx
Thanks for the Info! Looks like you have a Volt... I have one too... my 're-purposed' 30 amp circuit was initially intended for an electric car charger. I ended up running a 50 amp circuit instead, in case I get a 'faster charging' electric car in the future! Unfortunately, the Volt's built in inverter, limits the charging speed some. I love the car though!
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post #853 of 866 Old 08-13-2014, 12:00 PM
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my lessons learned list starts off with "hire Dennis" but the main things I kicked myself about where:

1. Cutting 9 holes in my double dryway with greenglue for lights - idiot!! The thing is like swiss cheese in the ceiling.

Look at this superb idea for lighting...MDF and LED on each side...no holes !
I'm planning on doing this for my project...I found this on Houzz



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post #854 of 866 Old 08-13-2014, 02:39 PM
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I like that carpet. (The lighting too, but that's too involved for my current project, maybe theater #4 )

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post #855 of 866 Old 08-13-2014, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AlphaCentaurus View Post
Look at this superb idea for lighting...MDF and LED on each side...no holes !
I'm planning on doing this for my project...I found this on Houzz
[snip]
Which is very nice looking, no doubt, but it absolutely requires a white or near white ceiling to serve as an indirect light source. White is rarely considered an acceptable ceiling color for theaters.
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post #856 of 866 Old 08-13-2014, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tnedator View Post
Any idea how the EP-Core-5R and Middle Atlantic ISOCTR-5R-240-2 compare? If I remember correctly (I'm not quite to equipment purchase phase) that Middle Atlantic is quite a bit less expensive than Exactpower.
That is correct. However, the EP-Core-5R has switched outlets, which I need for my QSC Amps and JBL powered subs. The Powercore also has more monitoring bells and whistles. There will be a 6 kVA UPS ahead of the Powercore, and also a standby generator out back. "Anything worth doing is worth overdoing..."
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post #857 of 866 Old 08-14-2014, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by kmhvball View Post
Thanks for the Info! Looks like you have a Volt... I have one too... my 're-purposed' 30 amp circuit was initially intended for an electric car charger. I ended up running a 50 amp circuit instead, in case I get a 'faster charging' electric car in the future! Unfortunately, the Volt's built in inverter, limits the charging speed some. I love the car though!
Yes, I have a 2011 Volt #579 . I love the car. In my remodel, I too am running 50A charger circuits in the garage for future (even thought the Volt EVSE only uses a 20A breaker).
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post #858 of 866 Old 08-14-2014, 08:56 AM
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Which is very nice looking, no doubt, but it absolutely requires a white or near white ceiling to serve as an indirect light source. White is rarely considered an acceptable ceiling color for theaters.
Maybe I'll put White LED on a black cealing
I'll buy RGB LED so I can change if needed

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post #859 of 866 Old 08-14-2014, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by LeBon View Post
That is correct. However, the EP-Core-5R has switched outlets, which I need for my QSC Amps and JBL powered subs. The Powercore also has more monitoring bells and whistles. There will be a 6 kVA UPS ahead of the Powercore, and also a standby generator out back. "Anything worth doing is worth overdoing..."
Yea, that's what Dennis spec'd for me as well, but I'm busting my budget on the room build, so am having to skimp on equipment. I was considering holding off on the step down transformer, but that Mid Atlantic looks interesting.

What I didn't realize until I was just trying to find reviews, is that Middle Atlantic owns ExactPower. At least it's another choice, but I have a little while before I need to decide.
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post #860 of 866 Old 08-14-2014, 07:05 PM
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I'd run conduit to all the locations my speakers will be, one to the riser and one to the PJ(the last one I actually did). I'd also have planned the theater before the house and moved the bathroom which is the perfect spot for a equipment room
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post #861 of 866 Old 08-29-2014, 09:03 AM
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I'd allow much more time - especially if you're slogging thru, doing everything yourself and basically making it a 'weekend warrior' project! Finding the time after work, weekend duty, raising a family and the required ENERGY is no match for having a contractor doing everything. Of course, having a contractor do it is no match for your wallet either!
While I didn't have a set schedule, it still took much longer than thought. 10 months later and I'm finally seeing the finishing tasks coming together. Carpet comes next week. Yippee!

I do enjoy the reward and personal satisfaction of having accomplished it and saying to myself, "I built that". I also marvel at the finished product with respect to how far it came from just a bare, empty basement. It does put a nice smile on my face. - Rick
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post #862 of 866 Old 08-29-2014, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by redjr View Post
I'd allow much more time - especially if you're slogging thru, doing everything yourself and basically making it a 'weekend warrior' project! Finding the time after work, weekend duty, raising a family and the required ENERGY is no match for having a contractor doing everything. Of course, having a contractor do it is no match for your wallet either!
While I didn't have a set schedule, it still took much longer than thought. 10 months later and I'm finally seeing the finishing tasks coming together. Carpet comes next week. Yippee!

I do enjoy the reward and personal satisfaction of having accomplished it and saying to myself, "I built that". I also marvel at the finished product with respect to how far it came from just a bare, empty basement. It does put a nice smile on my face. - Rick
It's always a balance isn't it? After going through 2 myself, with the 2nd a full DIY and full blown soundproofing, I said that if I had to do it again I'd hire someone. Well, here I am, with the need for a 3rd, and after talking to 3 different contractors, I'm going the DIY route again. Despite my relatively detailed plans, none of the 3 could translate what I wanted into an estimate that 1) made me feel comfortable with what the end result would be and 2) was reasonably priced. I knew going the contractor route would be more expensive, but some of the quotes were ridiculous. This time around I needed 2 walls cleared of drywall, 2 new framed walls, DD all over, carpet and an exterior door turned inside out and as soon as I put the word "theater" out there, the quotes jumped by 10K. Most of the quotes were more than putting a whole new bathroom in on our 2nd floor where a 2 story foyer once stood.

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post #863 of 866 Old 08-29-2014, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by redjr View Post
I'd allow much more time - especially if you're slogging thru, doing everything yourself and basically making it a 'weekend warrior' project! Finding the time after work, weekend duty, raising a family and the required ENERGY is no match for having a contractor doing everything. Of course, having a contractor do it is no match for your wallet either!
While I didn't have a set schedule, it still took much longer than thought. 10 months later and I'm finally seeing the finishing tasks coming together. Carpet comes next week. Yippee!

I do enjoy the reward and personal satisfaction of having accomplished it and saying to myself, "I built that". I also marvel at the finished product with respect to how far it came from just a bare, empty basement. It does put a nice smile on my face. - Rick
I agree. First thing anybody building a theater should know that it is a long process and plan on a year. If you are in a hurry, then buy a house with a theater

Congrats on your progress. I also have carpet coming next week. Would have been here last week except I had a minor setback. I should be close to done by next weekend.
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post #864 of 866 Old 08-31-2014, 10:47 AM
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I posted about this in my build thread (Bacchus Palace), but will briefly mention here.

I was using open cell foam in my entire house (stud bays and roof deck). In the HT, Erskine wanted no more than 3" of foam, leaving 2.5" clear (2x6 wall) for them to put their R13 fiberglass batts. For this reason, to make sure I could a good air barrier and R-value at least as high as the rest of the house, I went with closed cell foam in the home theater.

I went over the thickness requirement no less than five times verbally with the foam guy and three times in writing/email, which he acknowledged. When it came time to spray, the owner of the company didn't supervise, and they sprayed 4.5-5.5 in about 60+% of the wall area (440 WSF) on the two exterior walls where they sprayed.

I found out the week before the Erskine Group was set to show up, and the foam guys told me they were going to trim it back. I talked to them the Saturday before (EG starting work on Tuesday), and they said, "don't worry about it, we'll take care of it." I show up mid-day Monday and it's still there. I call the foam guy and he explains that once this stuff sets up, it's almost impossible to remove without grinding it out, he suggested I firr out the walls 2" and he would pay for that cost. I explained that my aisles were already so tight, that even 2" would be impossible (I was trying to have a curved row of seats).

Anyway, long story, short. My contractors and I spent about 4 hours using every tool they had or could buy locally (hand saws, reciprocal saws, planers, etc.) to trim this stuff back, and while all of it would make a dent, it would have probably taken 10-12 hours of solid work to get it done. They do make some specialty tools for trimming back closed cell foam (we didn't have it, and at the time, my foam guy didn't - he does now, too late for me).

If the week earlier, I hadn't taken the foam guys word, and started my contractors on it, we probably could have trimmed it back either by ordering in some tools, or just taking several days to do it (except the places where gas lines and electric (gas lanterns on exterior garage wall) had been pushed to the front of the foam (this closed cell stuff is nasty to work with). In the end, I ran out of time, and told them to firr out the walls about 1.75" (2x4 ripped down the center), which gave us the amount of space we were originally supposed to have for fiberglass.

If you opt to go with a 2-3" of closed cell foam (better air/vapor barrier at that thinness than open cell foam -- it's actually a vapor barrier, which open cell isn't), then make sure, maybe even get in writing, that they know the maximum thickness, but more importantly, do it early enough that if it needs to be trimmed back, you have lots of time to force the foam guy to trim it back.

For me, what this has meant is I had to switch from curved seating to straight seating. I was right on the edge for aisle width with the curved seating as it was originally designed, and then I took away 2" going to 2x6 construction on the exterior wall and then nearly another 2" when I firred out for the foam mistake. While 3 3/4" doesn't sound like a lot, my aisle right where the columns were was so tight, making each side 2" narrower just crossed a threshold and just made it too tight.

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post #865 of 866 Old 08-31-2014, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnedator View Post
I posted about this in my build thread (Bacchus Palace), but will briefly mention here.

I was using open cell foam in my entire house (stud bays and roof deck). In the HT, Erskine wanted no more than 3" of foam, leaving 2.5" clear (2x6 wall) for them to put their R13 fiberglass batts. I went over this no less than five times verbally with the foam guy and three times in writing/email, that he acknowledged. When it came time to spray, the owner of the company didn't supervise, and they sprayed 4.5-5.5 in about 60+% of the wall area (440 WSF) on the two exterior walls where they sprayed.

I found out the week before the Erskine Group was set to show up, and the foam guys told me they were going to trim it back. I talked to them the Saturday before (EG starting work on Tuesday), and they said, "don't worry about it, we'll take care of it." I show up mid-day Monday and it's still there. I call the foam guy and he explains that once this stuff sets up, it's almost impossible to remove without grinding it out, he suggested I firr out the walls 2" and he would pay for that cost. I explained that my aisles were already so tight, that even 2" would be impossible (I was trying to have a curved row of seats).

Anywa, long story, short. My contractors and I spent about 4 hours using every tool they had or could buy locally (hand saws, reciprocal saws, planers, etc.) to trim this stuff back, and while all of it would make a dent, it would have probably taken 10-12 hours of solid work to get it done. They do make some specialty tools for trimming back closed cell foam (we didn't have it, and at the time, my foam guy didn't - he does now, too late for me).

If the week earlier, I hadn't taken the foam guys word, and started my contractors on it, we probably could have trimmed it back either by ordering in some tools, or just taking several days to do it (except the places where gas lines and electric (gas lanterns on exterior garage wall) had been pushed to the front of the foam (this closed cell stuff is nasty to work with). In the end, I ran out of time, and told them to firr out the walls about 1.75" (2x4 ripped down the center), which gave us the amount of space we were originally supposed to have for fiberglass.

If you opt to go with a 2-3" of closed cell foam (better air/vapor barrier at that thinness than open), then make sure, maybe even get in writing, that they know the maximum thickness, but more importantly, do it early enough that if it needs to be trimmed back, you have lots of time to force the foam guy to trim it back.

For me, what this has meant is I had to switch from curved seating to straight seating. I was right on the edge for aisle width with the curved seating as it was originally designed, and then I took away 2" going to 2x6 construction on the exterior wall and then nearly another 2" when I firred out for the foam mistake. While 3 3/4" doesn't sound like a lot, my aisle right where the columns were was so tight, making each side 2" narrower just crossed a threshold and just made it too tight.

I had open cell foam, I could simply push it back and compress it about that much... Was it icynene? I wonder if there are different types of open cell spray foam? That sucks man... Another benefit to DIY: work at whatever pace you want (even if it is 2 years)
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post #866 of 866 Old 08-31-2014, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by roccoleach View Post
I had open cell foam, I could simply push it back and compress it about that much... Was it icynene? I wonder if there are different types of open cell spray foam? That sucks man... Another benefit to DIY: work at whatever pace you want (even if it is 2 years)
My bad, in the first paragraph I wasn't clear that I did open cell (same as icynene) in the entire house, but because I was going to be limited to 3" give or take in the home theater, I opted for closed cell in the home theater. Where open cell is a soft/spongy material that you can compress or tear out, closed cell winds up more like a cross between styrofoam and fiberglass when it hardens. It can be cut, but it's not easy, especially when you are working in the stud bays.
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