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post #31 of 1820 Old 07-20-2007, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Stew, I had double recliner rows in my last theater and was always frustrated at how difficult they made discussion, etc. during sporting events. That's my reason for wanting swiveling club chairs with small ottomans. This way, the middle and back row can all be a bit more social.

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post #32 of 1820 Old 07-20-2007, 07:53 PM
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Lol, I'll still go by Mike, no worries!

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post #33 of 1820 Old 07-21-2007, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I was going to share that , but didn't know if it was "secret" on the internet or not? guess not. too crazy. It seems at work that I always get clients in pairs too. Makes it hard to keep names straight. Like Morgan and Morganton, etc.

I worked a few hours on the drawing last night. I'm really excited about its development. Can't wait to post it. Will be a few hours.

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post #34 of 1820 Old 07-21-2007, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright! Here's scheme#3. It's feeling much more comfortable to me now.

Changes include:

Screen is now against front wall, which gives seating distances an extra 24". Sub is now placed under the left speaker inside the false wall. Cabinet is built up to screen height to allow for center channel to be hidden. This could double as a seating bench when kids are using the stage for "performances". Also gives lots of storage space.

I noted on drawing the 38% and 62% spots. Front row and middle row are much closer to those now.

Bar is now rounded and double sided. The round shape reflects the stage, and also helps with traffic flow a little. Also, note there is more space behind last row. The lower bar will work well for the swivel chair row. You will have to spin around for your food and drink.

So are we getting somewhere? Come on guys, lots of feedback! If we collectively decide this is working, I could be building risers in a couple of weeks.

Thanks,
Tony


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post #35 of 1820 Old 07-21-2007, 10:22 AM
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I like it. Start building! Do you have anyone doing acoustical design for you?

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post #36 of 1820 Old 07-21-2007, 11:33 AM
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Yea, get building ya lazy slug!

Seriously, I like that setup.
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post #37 of 1820 Old 07-22-2007, 12:53 AM
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Looks like a cool layout, I like the versatility, it is rare to see such a good balance of social and critical viewing layouts. I am going to keep your layout in my head for future use. If you don't yet have an acoustical consultant, BPape (a forum regular) is a very popular solution. I think that the rules of thumb for acoustical design are probably good enough for most of us, but if you want to go that extra bit and get the most for your money it sounds like a consultant is the way to go.

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post #38 of 1820 Old 07-22-2007, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Seems like Scheme #3 is meeting rave reviews! It's been a few days, and I still like it too.

I think you guys just want to see some hammers swinging. I want to give it a few weeks for more feedback before I actually commit to it though. Please, if you read this thread, leave a comment or suggestion.

Today I'm going to put the seating in these positions and we'll watch a few movies like this and see how it feels.

BFauska, thanks for the compliments. It does seem to balance the social and critical viewing pretty well. Besides sporting events, we have two two year old boys and I'm sure between them and their friends, the next 20 years will be balanced more to "social" viewing! hahaha Little ones climbing all over me and stealing popcorn, etc.

To be honest, I've been in acoustically treated rooms and didn't appreciated the difference. I am certainly looking for feedback on how to avoid some of the major acoustical pitfalls. So do you have a list for major rules of thumb?

I find that in most cases, my senses are not tuned well enought to eek out the final few percentages of performance. To my eyes and ears (and wallet), 90% of potential performance is good enough.

Off to the basement...

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post #39 of 1820 Old 07-22-2007, 08:42 AM
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Just a comment on the whole basement plan. Is it weird that you need to go into the office to use the restroom. If you are going to entertain a lot you would think the restroom should be accessible from the game room and theater.

I guess it just means you have to keep the office really clean for company since they will see it. I know how hard that is to do at my place!
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post #40 of 1820 Old 07-22-2007, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_mitch View Post

Just a comment on the whole basement plan. Is it weird that you need to go into the office to use the restroom. If you are going to entertain a lot you would think the restroom should be accessible from the game room and theater.

I thought the same, but forgot to mention it.
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post #41 of 1820 Old 07-22-2007, 09:14 AM
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I'd like to know more about what the concave surface is on the rear wall. Normally concave shapes like that are a bad idea as they'll tend to really focus the sound - which is exactly the opposite of the diffuse soundfield you really want in a surround situation.

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post #42 of 1820 Old 07-22-2007, 09:46 AM
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I'd like to know more about what the concave surface is on the rear wall.
Bryan

Looks like steps down from riser height to the game room.
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post #43 of 1820 Old 07-22-2007, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys.

The concave arcs at the rear are indeed risers from the gameroom. I like them in a curve to reflect the shape of the bar, but am thrown a bit at how to handle doors. They could be straight across the top of the risers. Any other idea? Curved doors I'm sure are possible, but cost prohibative.

The wall that divides the basement in half lengthways is the only structural wall in the basement. All of the walls have been framed as shown. I agree with the comments about the bathroom access. What about no door on the 45degree opening, and a door at the office opening. I can't remove the 45degree opening or associated wall, as it is load bearing.

Side note: I picked up a Toshiba HDA2 last week, and am blown away! It appears screen distance formulas could be changed by the higher PQ.

How did you guys handle concrete dust. Did you seal concrete prior to building anything on it? That's cheap enough to do.

I really appreciate all you guys being involved and respect your input.

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post #44 of 1820 Old 07-22-2007, 01:14 PM
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I painted the concrete walls with Drylok.

Edit: Are you asking about the concrete walls or floors? I wouldn't use the above on floors

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post #45 of 1820 Old 07-23-2007, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I was asking about the floors.

My walls are treated on the outside. They used a tar like material called "mastic", and then a 1" drain board over the entire surface that at the footer is tied into a french drain. I was told to put nothing on the wall, because it needed to be able to "breath".

The inside of the walls don't seem to be putting off the powdery dust. The floors, are a different story. It seems I can sweep up a dust pan full every day. We can't walk barefoot in the basement.

For the gameroom, I plan to acid stain and then seal. For the theater though, it will be covered. I was thinking of sealing the floor or maybe just lay tar paper down to help with any possible dust issues. Or maybe none of this is necessary?

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post #46 of 1820 Old 07-23-2007, 06:54 AM
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As for walls, expanded polystyrene breathes, and also prevents your warm moist inside air from condensing on your cool basement walls.

Drywall will bring a whole new level of dust to your floor. When that's all done, do a final good cleanup(mop, vacuum, etc.) and then put down your flooring. No need to go beyond.
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post #47 of 1820 Old 07-23-2007, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Fatawan, I remember you saying that on your thread. I'll look into it, and likely use it.

Actually, the theater room itself is on the downhill side of the basment and the screen wall is about 4' high in concrete, the rest of the room is framed. Should really be a non-issue for that room. The rooms on the uphill side of the basement may never get sheetrocked, or at best will be years away.

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post #48 of 1820 Old 07-23-2007, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

What about no door on the 45degree opening, and a door at the office opening.

That'll work. You could try putting an arch over the opening and adding a cutout niche on the wall for wall art/accessories, so it looks aesthetically pleasing and planned, rather than something that had to be hacked in for the load bearing requirement. I saw that in a recent home on entry to the master bedroom and I thought... what a nice idea. The thought didn't even cross my head that it might have been a load bearing requirement.
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post #49 of 1820 Old 07-23-2007, 10:45 AM
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The design looks great. I can't wait to see the final result.

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post #50 of 1820 Old 07-23-2007, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Lindahl, that's a good idea. Actually, one of the details in the upstairs of the house is glass transoms above doorways and openings. I can repeat that downstairs.

Ockie, thanks. Don't hold your breath, it may be a year from now before it starts to resemble a finished room.

I've been spending some time reading the acoustical stickey thread. Most of it above my head! I went to Ethanwiner.com and read the FAQ section. Seems reasonable to do the screen wall in 703 and the side walls to ear level in linacoustic. Question, would using 705 on the two closets at the rear of the room, in effect, act as base traps? Face of wall at an angle, large open volume of space behind closet... Will be packing stage with sand and all risers with fiberglass batting.

I'm not really concerned with sound isolation, so I don't think I'll be going double drywall with GG. We've been testing it, and at our listening levels it doesn't disturb the main level that badley as is.

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post #51 of 1820 Old 07-23-2007, 12:15 PM
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Tony,

Keep in mind that the sound will change a great deal when the sheet rock goes up.
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post #52 of 1820 Old 07-23-2007, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Dan, do you think the sheetrock will increase sound to other rooms? I thought it would decrease it.

Also, want to clarify, I realize I'm oversimplifying acoustical treatments. It is a science much greater than I pretend to understand. I'm just trying to define, what are the handful of treatments that make the largest impact for a low budget DIY theater. I think I covered that list in the previous post.

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post #53 of 1820 Old 07-23-2007, 03:47 PM
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Tony,

Yes the sound will decrease to the other rooms. What I mean is that the sound in your theater will change once the sheet rock is up and it won't be the same sound as you have now.
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post #54 of 1820 Old 07-23-2007, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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got ya.

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post #55 of 1820 Old 07-24-2007, 09:49 AM
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Tony,

Wow, great plans. That'll be a really fun room

I agree with your sentiment in 90% is a great level of performance to achieve for things like equipment, sound treatment, etc. Having said that I think your new thought of doing things like the 703 up front and linacoustic on the sides (and bass traps in back I think you said) are really smart. I wish I had done some minimal sound treatment in my room, you won't regret it.

Also, you may want to revisit the idea of soundproofing as well. The sound levels may not bother you now but what about when those boys are older (you say you'll live here for 20 years, right?) -- won't you want soundproofing then when they bring their friends over for movie nights that go until 1 or 3 in the morning? I added the double drywall and green glue and it was worth every penny in my opinion. Sure, I could have gotten better soundproofing by decoupling walls and the ceiling, etc but like you said 90% hits most of the sweet spot for things and it didn't break the budget and achieved a result I wanted (I can watch late night movies without my wife banging on the door to turn it down ).

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post #56 of 1820 Old 07-24-2007, 01:01 PM
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Tony,

What a great size room! I wish mine could have been that large. You seating layout is just awesome. I cannot wait to see the finished product.
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post #57 of 1820 Old 07-24-2007, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Mike, glad you like the layout. You do have me rethinking the soundproofing. Thing is.....there ain't know way on god's green earth this ole' boy is going to drop a grand on caulk. Not saying it doesn't work. Just saying my core personality just won't let me. So that brings up the question, What things can a tight *ss do to help with sound isolation? I might entertain double drywall without the GG. Certainly can use insulation everywhere. Can box my recessed lighting, or not have it. It will be an independent HVAC, which should help.

Steve, honored to have you on board. I've spent hours reading your thread, and will do so again.

Honored to have all you guys.

Something I'm wrestling with in regards to the layout...The middle row riser works fine for the smaller swivel chairs and no reclining, but it is too narrow to use for recliners. As Dan pointed out at our local HT meeting, this will limit me if I ever want to change the layout in the future. I can't move the front row up, I suppose I could take the space out of the rear? any thoughts.

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post #58 of 1820 Old 07-24-2007, 09:05 PM
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Hey Tony,

How do you like your Coaster seats?
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post #59 of 1820 Old 07-24-2007, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Steve, My index finger is about to fall off. I just scrolled through your entire thread again. There is no way I can do the level of craftsmanship that you have. Beautiful work. Question: Your early plans show bar and stools in the rear, and you didn't end up that way. Did you explain why the change? I didn't catch it if you did.

Scott, the Coasters are a great value for the price. They are one of the few products that have exceeded my expectations. However, I would not purchase them again. The footrest is a little short for me. I'm 6'3" and the footrest catches me right above the ankle. Otherwise, pleased. At the price, you have to expect some compromise. But for primary seating, if I could do it over, I would not compromise.

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post #60 of 1820 Old 07-25-2007, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

Mike, glad you like the layout. You do have me rethinking the soundproofing. Thing is.....there ain't know way on god's green earth this ole' boy is going to drop a grand on caulk. Not saying it doesn't work. Just saying my core personality just won't let me. So that brings up the question, What things can a tight *ss do to help with sound isolation? I might entertain double drywall without the GG. Certainly can use insulation everywhere. Can box my recessed lighting, or not have it. It will be an independent HVAC, which should help.

Does it help that it's not a caulk? It's a viscoelastic polymer

Yeah, I don't know what to say. For me soundproofing was almost the highest priority since if I didn't get it right my room would be more or less a waste as I spend a lot of time by myself in there after everyone goes to bed and before I finished the room I had to have the volume super low to not wake people up. It would just grate on my nerves because I really wanted to crank it.

I guess it's all perspectives and priorities. Just remember it's WAY easier to soundproof now instead of later.

And absolutely if you decide that double drywall is acceptable and can't get around the cost of the green glue then go for it. I think you'll get some performance at least. And the more the better. And I'd throw in a solid core door too

Mike
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