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post #61 of 1814 Old 07-25-2007, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

Steve, My index finger is about to fall off. I just scrolled through your entire thread again. There is no way I can do the level of craftsmanship that you have. Beautiful work. Question: Your early plans show bar and stools in the rear, and you didn't end up that way. Did you explain why the change? I didn't catch it if you did.

You didn't catch it because I'll bet I never mentioned why The wife was really excited about the rear bar. However, after we put the 1st row seating in, she though more about how uncomfortable the bar seats might be after a 1.5 hour flic. At that point she changed her mind and we purchased the rear seating. I did not have the room length for reclining rear seat but what we purchased is still very comfortable after a long movie (the kids prefer the rear row because it is raised). NOW -- if I had the room length you have, I know we would have put the bar as the 3rd row. I'd stay with your design. It will work out well for sporting events when you have snacks and lots of people.

BTW -- your seating looks similar in layout to this room. When my wife saw this on TV, she liked the swivel-chair concept used in this room. We were going to add the floor seating for the kids but found out a thick blanket and a few pillows does the trick just as well. And the nice part is they can be easily picked up and put away

This is the room from the show -- ReDesign on HGTV

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post #62 of 1814 Old 07-25-2007, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Mike, I shouldn't have used the term "caulk". I realize now it sounded like a dig. I have faith it does what it is intended for, I just need to decide if it is worth it to me. I watch about 99.9% of movies with my wife, so there isn't much late night watching while the other is sleeping. We also are all in bed by about 10:30. As for the kids, they are on the other end of the house and on the main level, and even without sheetrock it is a very mild sound in their room. Frankly, I remember sleeping through everything when I was a kid and they will learn to do the same.

Will there be occassions where soundproofing would be nice? sure. I just see our lifestyle as being about as forgiving as possible. I default to the 90% rule.

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post #63 of 1814 Old 07-25-2007, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Steve, That room does have the same concept we're after. Thanks for the photos.

I think I have one major reservation yet about this layout. The middle riser will only be deep enough for smaller, swivel chairs. What happens if I ever decide I want the middle row to be recliners? I have a problem. I'm going to ge measure my Coasters and see what a minimum riser depth would be for them. I probably should make that middle riser that depth.

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post #64 of 1814 Old 07-25-2007, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

Steve, That room does have the same concept we're after. Thanks for the photos.

I think I have one major reservation yet about this layout. The middle riser will only be deep enough for smaller, swivel chairs. What happens if I ever decide I want the middle row to be recliners? I have a problem. I'm going to ge measure my Coasters and see what a minimum riser depth would be for them. I probably should make that middle riser that depth.

I agree -- make it deeper to accommodate recliners (just in case). You have the room depth so take advantage of it.

BTW -- you could possibly push your front row a little closer -- especially if you are getting a 1080 projector. My 1st row is 1.2x screen width (eyes are 11.4' away on a 9.5' wide screen) and I can only make out SDE on very white or "fire" explosion scenes (Infocus IN76 720p). I had a buddy bring over his 1080 projector (Panny AE1000U) and we saw NOTHING from the seated position. I even walked up to my screen and did not see anything until I was about 4 feet away. I can't wait util I can do an upgrade.

Just some food for thought.
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post #65 of 1814 Old 07-25-2007, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm using a Panasonic AE900 (720p) right now. We watch OTA HD and HD DVD (DVD if forced). So I know just what you mean by no screen door. I can only imagine 1080p! However, my HT funds are going into the build over the next several years I'm sure. So....I'll have to live with 720p. hahaha

I think the issue of distance to screen is greater than just resolution though. I don't like to be in the front row, even at a live event. There is a sweet spot for me, and it isn't right on top of things.

I've been meaning to slide my seats into position and test it, but seems every day gets full of less important things, like family and work.

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post #66 of 1814 Old 07-25-2007, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I came up with a simple solution to leaving the option of recliners in the middle row. The front of the middle riser stayed in the same position, but the back slid back about a foot to the middle of the two bars. Now, the lower bar is not on a cabinet, it is simply cantelevered on corbels (see the elevation). This way, if the swivel chairs ever change to recliners, just remove the lower bar and the riser depth is 7' ! Anyone see an issue with this?


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post #67 of 1814 Old 07-26-2007, 12:19 PM
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Tony,

Looks like that will work out well. You just need to design it so if they shelf supports are removed, you have an easy way to cover up the holes left behind.

And I have not read all your thread in detail -- so this may have already been brought up...

You mentioned you prefer to sit in the middle row of seating (vs. in the front). Those swivel chairs are a great option being next to the bar but I do not think they will be as comfortable as the recliners. When watching a movie, the "recline" does make it much more comfortable IMO.

Have you considered putting the HT seating in the middle with a couch or small sectional in front? The couch should not cost you much more (if any) that (4) of those swivel chairs. I saw this in a Home Electronic Magazine about a year back and it looked great. The leather color of the couch matched the color of the HT seating -- which gave everything a uniform look. You could even put a long leather/fabric covered ottoman in front for foot support (and as a make-shift table to hold snacks). You have 12' in front of that seated area -- so it won't crowd the front.

Here is a quick MS Paint mock-up for ya

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post #68 of 1814 Old 07-26-2007, 01:19 PM
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I'm also not sure you need to put the bar stools on a riser. In any of the theaters that I've seen with a third row bar stool set-up, the stool people can see over the second row without needing to be on a riser.

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post #69 of 1814 Old 07-26-2007, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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That may be true, I'm going with the 24" stools on a 36" bar. So, they are the shorter stools, but I need to plug into the riser calculator. I used it once, and got funny numbers. I'll try again.

That would be great to only have one riser. Thanks for reminding me of that.

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post #70 of 1814 Old 07-26-2007, 05:37 PM
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Tony,

Sounds like your usage is conducive to the build plan you have in mind (soundproofing wise). In that case you're certainly better off saving the money for that 1080p projector

Mike
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post #71 of 1814 Old 07-26-2007, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Steve, you are correct, I did say I liked the middle. However, It's more important to me to have the social atmosphere around the bar for sporting events. If the middle row is recliners, then suddenly you don't have the "circle" of seating around the bar. So, I know I'm making a trade off there. Thanks for the mock up.

Here's my data from the riser calculator.

This is using the input data from the front row of recliners and the rear row of barstools.

Floor to bottom of screen 30"
Height of seated front row viewers top of head 47"
Height of rear row viewers eyes 55"
Screen to front row viewers eyes 12'11"
Screen to back row viewers eyes 25'
Minimum riser height 7 7/8"

This is for the front row of recliners and middle row of swivel chairs

Floor to bottom of screen 30"
Height of seated front row viewers top of head 47"
Height of rear row viewers eyes 42" (I'm guessing at this, I don't own the chairs yet)
Screen to front row viewers eyes 12'11"
Screen to back row viewers eyes 18'8"
Minimum riser height 12 9/16"


And this is from middle row of swivels and rear row of barstools

Floor to bottom of screen 30"
Height of seated front row viewers top of head 47"
Height of rear row viewers eyes 55"
Screen to front row viewers eyes 18'8"
Screen to back row viewers eyes 25'
Minimum riser height -2 3/16"

So, barstools are no problem over middle and front, but middle needs to be 12.5" above front.

Can someone confident in this run through real quick using the plan on post #66. I've not used this calculator before and want to have a second set of eyes.

If I'm correct, then I need to be up two risers all the way to between middle and front rows? I really didn't want to do this, as it will shrink me to 8' ceiling for 2/3's of the room.

I hope I goofed up somewhere in calcs.

Mike, my "current" usage doesn't require soundproofing, and I realize the smart thing to do is plan for the future. It is partially me being cheap, and it may just bite me one day.

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post #72 of 1814 Old 07-27-2007, 12:42 AM
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tony123, I hate you. This is looking absolute incredible. I'm green with envy!
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post #73 of 1814 Old 07-27-2007, 05:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Uncauzi, I understand. I've lusted after a room this size for 15 years now. And thanks for reminding me.

I could hardly sleep over this riser issue. I decided to redo the calcs with the screen bottom at 38" off the floor. This gives about 10" above the screen, which is less than I wanted.

This is using the input data from the front row of recliners and the rear row of barstools.

Floor to bottom of screen 38"
Height of seated front row viewers top of head 47"
Height of rear row viewers eyes 55"
Screen to front row viewers eyes 12'11"
Screen to back row viewers eyes 25'
Minimum riser height 0 3/8"


This is for the front row of recliners and middle row of swivel chairs

Floor to bottom of screen 38"
Height of seated front row viewers top of head 47"
Height of rear row viewers eyes 42"
Screen to front row viewers eyes 12'11"
Screen to back row viewers eyes 18'7"
Minimum riser height 8 15/16"

And this is from middle row of swivels and rear row of barstools

Floor to bottom of screen 38"
Height of seated front row viewers top of head 47"
Height of rear row viewers eyes 55"
Screen to front row viewers eyes 12'11"
Screen to back row viewers eyes 25'
Minimum riser height 0 3/8"


Well, that brings it to one 9" riser. That's better, but isn't a standard riser height more at 7-8"? I can pick the screen up even higher.

What's causing this issue? I see other similar layouts that all have more room above the screen. Are those rooms all 10' ceilings?

If I could get this down to one 8" riser, that would be awesome! Of course, I used myself as a model for measurements and I'm 6'3". I suppose I could just make sure the "little" people get the front row.

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post #74 of 1814 Old 07-27-2007, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

I see other similar layouts that all have more room above the screen.

The aspect ratio of the screen will also effect the distance from the ceiling (eg, 2.35:1 will give a greater distance). Can't remember, what aspect ratio are you using?

And, yes, your abnormal height is likely causing glitches within the calculator

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post #75 of 1814 Old 07-27-2007, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mbgonzomd View Post

And, yes, your abnormal height is likely causing glitches within the calculator

Maybe so...

I was planning to go with 2.35, but am not sure I understand how this effects all the television material I watch? I'll spend some time over at the 2.35 forum.

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post #76 of 1814 Old 07-28-2007, 02:41 PM
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What the??????
Man, I am going to get jealous. Just caught this thread and dont remember the room ever being this big??? The design however.....I LIKE IT!!!! Cant wait to see
how it all come together. I wonder if I can steall some of your design ideas
Lets get busy.

"Get your hands out of my pocket"
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post #77 of 1814 Old 07-28-2007, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, we watched Superman Returns last night and sat at the 155"distance (first row). It was a little close for both my wife and I's taste. I've redrawn the plan sliding the front row back to 168" distance (eye to screen) and it made a big difference for us. We watched "Flushed Away" with the kids and it was worlds more comfortable.

So The spacing of all seating is the same. It all slide back 13" as a unit which leaves a little less room behind the barstools, but viewing comfort trumps aisle space.

Here's the new plan.




Also redid the riser calculations and I can get away with only one riser from back of room to just behind front row. It calls for 7 5/16" and pretty sure 7 1/2" meets code. See the above elevation that reflects only one riser.

This is using the input data from the front row of recliners and the rear row of barstools.

Floor to bottom of screen 38"
Height of seated front row viewers top of head 47"
Height of rear row viewers eyes 55"
Screen to front row viewers eyes 15'8"
Screen to back row viewers eyes 26'
Minimum riser height -2 0"

This is for the front row of recliners and middle row of swivel chairs

Floor to bottom of screen 38"
Height of seated front row viewers top of head 47"
Height of rear row viewers eyes 42"
Screen to front row viewers eyes 15'8"
Screen to back row viewers eyes 19'9"
Minimum riser height 7 5/16"

And this is from middle row of swivels and rear row of barstools

Floor to bottom of screen 38"
Height of seated front row viewers top of head 47"
Height of rear row viewers eyes 55"
Screen to front row viewers eyes 19'9"
Screen to back row viewers eyes 26'
Minimum riser height -5 1/8"

Am I boring my audience? I hope all the wrestling with the room arrangements and riser calcs are helpful to somone. I know It's a slow pace, but it really is starting to shape up.

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post #78 of 1814 Old 07-28-2007, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Skeets, I think the last time we met, I was going with a different house, and it did have a smaller space. This is a pretty killer space. I hope I can do it justice. Glad you like the plan.

I've still got to come see your room. My life's a little more 'normal' now that the build is over, so you need to invite me over.

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post #79 of 1814 Old 07-29-2007, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post


Am I boring my audience? I hope all the wrestling with the room arrangements and riser calcs are helpful to somone. I know It's a slow pace, but it really is starting to shape up.

I just had about 3 crude comments go through my head and I was going to give you a hard time. However, since this is a family web site I will keep them to myself You are going about it the right way, planning that is. I just rush into everything and end up redoing it once or twice (or 4 times in the case of my front wall).

I like the plan. Start building. The anticipation is killing me. Your boys are going to be leaving for college soon. You want them to enjoy the theater, don't you?

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post #80 of 1814 Old 07-29-2007, 11:10 AM
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[quote=tony123]Okay, we watched Superman Returns last night and sat at the 155"distance (first row). It was a little close for both my wife and I's taste. I've redrawn the plan sliding the front row back to 168" distance (eye to screen) and it made a big difference for us. We watched "Flushed Away" with the kids and it was worlds more comfortable.

So The spacing of all seating is the same. It all slide back 13" as a unit which leaves a little less room behind the barstools, but viewing comfort trumps aisle space.

Here's the new plan.




Tony,

Am I correct that SUPERMAN RETURNS was presented at 2.35:1 (60" X 141")?

As we discussed earlier, my taste would be for a viewing distance of around 2.5 times screen height for the nearest seats, and about 3.5 times screen height for the most distant seats. For your 60" image height, this would be a minimum distance of 150" or so from the front row with a minimum of about 210" from the back row. Even though your first row fell within the parameter I had mentioned, it sounds like you guys prefer a little more distance from eye to screen with the 60 inch image height. This is a perfect illustration of how simulating and experimenting prior to construction can help you identify your own preferences , allowing you to tweak any formula to fit your own preferences.

However, having said all that, I ain't givin' up! Unless, you were just totally overwhelmed by the image size from the front row, I'd suggest you watch a couple more movies before you abandon the 155" distance. It may grow on you.

Also, you may find your theater patronized by certain individuals (nameless, of course ) who might like watching that size picture from 155". Seriously, though, a number of people may want to sit in that front row, while others share your taste and prefer the second or third row. That's what's nice about having several rows---people of different tastes have a choice. One thing for sure: there are always significant differences among viewers about what is too large and what is too small.

In summary, I believe you should plan your theater for the maximum cinematic impact, while attempting as best you can to avoid overwhelming or underwhelming the viewers. Not a very precise formula, I know...but it's fun trying to hit the target!

Tom


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post #81 of 1814 Old 07-30-2007, 05:30 AM
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Very nice setup.

Rear area is perfect for watching sports with a group - and the greater distance from the screen is also better suited for video gaming (if that is an interest).
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post #82 of 1814 Old 07-30-2007, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Tom, essentially, we watched Superman Returns (2.35) at 2.55 times screen height and watched Flushed Away at about 2.8 times screen height. Our tastes are for 2.8 times screen height. Your comments of being able to accomodate all tastes are valid. Problem is, I don't want the recliners in the middle row as it will kill the "social" factor of swivel chairs around the bar, etc. The recliners are my more comfortable "movie watching chairs", which means I will sit in them often. So you see my catch 22? If I put my favorite chairs in my personal seating preference then I loose the "bar".

Of course, we will always have some portable seating that my "nameless guests" can put in front of the front row!

Another point you bring up is that of "overwhelming or underwhelming". With a room this deep, I don't know if I can hit the sweet spot for all three rows. If I hit it for the middle and front I would be satisfied. However, I will give 155" viewing distance a few more chances.

Thanks for your input. It is always helpful to keep questioning, so please keep presenting your thoughts.

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post #83 of 1814 Old 07-30-2007, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post

Very nice setup.

Rear area is perfect for watching sports with a group - and the greater distance from the screen is also better suited for video gaming (if that is an interest).

Glad you like the setup. Video gaming is not an interest at the moment, but with two two year old boys, I'm sure it will be at some point. Of course, I'm doing all this for them anyhow.

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post #84 of 1814 Old 07-30-2007, 08:11 AM
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I sit at about 2.4 x screen height and playing Halo made me want to blow chunks - I had to move to the back row to avoid the equivalent of bed spins (kids aren't affected at all).

I think your comments in Post #82 are right on the mark. Tweak your viewing distance and audio for the single row of theater seats (more specifically to your individual chair) - virtually ignoring the rear two "social gathering" rows. Keep your movies 100% ideal for 100% of your movies for 4 people - and your only sacrifice is for persons #5 & up for 20% of your viewings. That means possibly cheating your surrounds forward a bit - closer to the direct side of the recliner row.

Other thing I didn't see is whether you are planning 7.1 audio. It's not used so much right now for movies, but may be utilized more in the future. But the bigger advantage is you could place the rear surrounds on your angled corners in the back and with a simulated setting (like "stadium", etc.) you can send the crowd noise of sports behind all seats and give more of an immersive experience - even while socializing.
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post #85 of 1814 Old 07-30-2007, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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CPanther, we're on the same page. It is disappointing or should I say surprising that a 32' deep room ends up with only 4 "prime" movie seats. But you are correct, that would cover 80% of my needs. Even with many guests over, it would be rare to have more than 4 people that even cared enough to carefully select a seat.

I will wire for 7.1, and that is my plan. My receiver (Denon3300) is 5.1, but I will run an unofficial 7.1 using the A and B channels of the surround. So yes, 7.1

Man I have an itch to pick up a hammer today!

I haven't gotten any feedback on my last post about the risers. Would anyone like to comment on the latest riser plan. One riser of 8" for both the rear and middle rows.

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post #86 of 1814 Old 07-30-2007, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been collecting images, and thought I'd put a few on here.

This is an idea of barstool style



This would be the middle row style (or similar)



Alternate for middle row



And these are the coaster I already own


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post #87 of 1814 Old 07-30-2007, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

I haven't gotten any feedback on my last post about the risers. Would anyone like to comment on the latest riser plan. One riser of 8" for both the rear and middle rows.

Tony,

When I was designing the rear bar seating in my room, I did not plan on a riser. I computed all the angles and because the bar stools stood so high, there was no head blockage with a screen 24" off the floor.

Also, having a single level for your 2nd and 3rd rows will make the upper deck seem larger IMO and less to trip on given the traffic your have back there during a sporting event

EDIT -- I just saw the pics of your bar stools and they look to be normal chair height (I did not know that). If that is the case, I think the bar will need to be on a platform so you will see over the 2nd row heads.
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post #88 of 1814 Old 07-30-2007, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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EDIT -- I just saw the pics of your bar stools and they look to be normal chair height (I did not know now). If that is the case, I think the bar will need to be on a platform so you will see over the 2nd row heads.

That photo was more to illustrate style more than height. Common barstools are available in two heights typically. 24" is a common "short" barstool, designed to work with standard 36" counter heights. My plan is to use these. They sit about 6" higher than a typical "chair".

I'll be doing a mockup in the theater before proceeding, just to verify everything works.

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post #89 of 1814 Old 08-13-2007, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello. We've had some other things take up our time in the last few weeks, but ready to start making some headway now.

I took the plan as last seen on post#80 and chalked it out on the floor. We placed chairs in the correct positions, and have watched several movies now with this arrangement. We're comfortable with it.

On most construction threads it seems the room is sheetrocked before risers, stage, etc. Why is that preferred? I would rather start with risers and stage.

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post #90 of 1814 Old 08-13-2007, 02:10 PM
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The riser and stage are usually done after drywall for sound isolation concerns. The idea is to create the airtight room and then build things within that do not contact the drywall (1/4 gap between stage/riser and drywall. Basically trying to keep everything decoupled. Since you are not real concerned with sound isolation, you could probably build it either way.

Are you planning any sort of subfloor for moisture control (Dricore, etc) or are you going to lay carpet on the concrete? If going with a subfloor that would obviously be the first step before stage/riser construction.

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