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post #1 of 23 Old 08-21-2007, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I haven't seemed to get much in the way of replies in the audio section so I figured maybe it would be better suited in this forum. I currently have just 2 GIK 242's at the first reflection points but am looking at adding some more treatments to improve the room. I don't have a ton to work with so I am trying to get away with the bare minimum and add more later. I was looking at going with ATS (I have the GIK sold) as they seem to be inexpensive and fairly decent looking. Here is the obstacle I am working with.


As you can see I have about 6" or so from the sidewalls to the outside front edge of the mains (toed in a bit). This obviously creates a less than ideal setup. The other problem I run into is, there is a door beside the right side speaker which makes it tough to place any treatments there should any be required.

I ran the reflections program and here is what it came up with.


1). It shows quite a bit of reflection on the ceiling. Would it be better to use absorption or diffusion up there. I was thinking of placing one row of three 2" squares about 1' apart from each other at the first reflection point.

2) Place acoustic panels to try and cover a large area around the first reflection point. This would consist of two 4x8 ft panels and 1 2x2 foot panel. This might stick out too far based on my room width but I thought it might look cool and the center panel having an air gap would probably help a little with the lower frequencies.


3) Line the whole stage behind the speakers with egg crate foam (lined about 4' up side and rear wall) and place some 3" corner foam for the lower frequencies.

4) Later down the road I could add another row of 3 panels on the ceiling and a couple on the back wall.

All inputs and suggestions are appreciated.

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post #2 of 23 Old 08-21-2007, 06:06 PM
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Most do not treat the ceiling (assuming the floor has carpet). You certainly will want to treat that entire front wall with a duct liner. Depending on you room you likely need low end control, thus, bass traps in those front corners at a minimum.

There are people in this forum that can give you a good room analysis and make treatment recommendations based on you specific room needs. It probably would be a good investment (few hundred bucks), if you want to do it "right."

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post #3 of 23 Old 08-21-2007, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I was kind of thinking the same thing about the ceiling until looking at the analysis program. They are 9' though so I could always do it down the road if needed. So you think I need to line the whole front wall, not just 5 ft up (keep in mind it's 9' tall)?

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post #4 of 23 Old 08-21-2007, 06:34 PM
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While many don't do the ceilings, that doesn't mean you shouldn't Alot of the time it is more about the height - an 8' ceiling means the room is likely less live to begin with, and you really can't drop it 4 for inches for treatments. If you have the height to spare it is a great place for treatments. I wouldn't typically worry too much about reflection points of the ceiling, but if you need to get your rt60 down it is a great place to add some absorption.

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post #5 of 23 Old 08-21-2007, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I would actually prefer to add a little to the ceiling. While I haven't done any fancy room measurements, the simple clap test reveals that I definitely could use some more help.

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post #6 of 23 Old 08-22-2007, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

So you think I need to line the whole front wall, not just 5 ft up (keep in mind it's 9' tall)?

All the rooms I have seen on the forum, where the treatments were designed by people in the know, have had the entire front wall treated. My front wall was 8' tall and that is what Bpape recommended for me. I also put corner bass traps on the front wall.


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post #7 of 23 Old 08-22-2007, 06:49 AM
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Gonzo, what type of washer screws did you use? Have a link?

Thanks.

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post #8 of 23 Old 08-22-2007, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Sounds good. I am going to order some 1-1/2" eggcrate foam and do the whole back wall, and the sides behind the screen as well. I'm going to start with 4 2x2 tiles on the ceiling, 1 4x2 tile at the first reflection point, and 1 2x2 tile next to the second row of seats.

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post #9 of 23 Old 08-22-2007, 09:40 AM
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Reconsider the eggcrate foam idea. I'm pretty sure it's a major fire hazzard and doesn't offer much in terms of sound treatment. I'm sure one could dig up some threads that discusses it. I don't happen to have any bookmarked.

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post #10 of 23 Old 08-22-2007, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathan View Post

Reconsider the eggcrate foam idea. I'm pretty sure it's a major fire hazzard and doesn't offer much in terms of sound treatment. I'm sure one could dig up some threads that discusses it. I don't happen to have any bookmarked.

"ALL acoustical products (charcoal & colors) meet a Class B, California 117 flame retardant specifications. Generally, this means if you were to briefly expose our foam to a flame, the foam will self-extinguish."

I'm not sure I'd call that a "major" fire hazzard, but I think if you're not running around with open flames near it you'll probably be fine.

That's for the egg crate foam at foambymail.com (which is where I get all my foam).
I had one of those large egg crate sheets covering the back wall of my office behind my studio monitors and it works very well for stopping echos. It is mostly useless for low frequencies though. If you're putting it behind another wall I would get the thickest stuff you can.
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post #11 of 23 Old 08-22-2007, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cozmogeek View Post

That's for the egg crate foam at foambymail.com (which is where I get all my foam).

Oops, better see this:

www.ethanwiner.com/fraud.html

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post #12 of 23 Old 08-22-2007, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

Oops, better see this:

www.ethanwiner.com/fraud.html

--Ethan

Hmmmmmmm, interesting. I figured as long as it wasn't bedding foam all eggcrate foam was pretty much identical for NRC values. I too was looking at foambymail for the eggcrate. I know it's not the best NRC but it is better than a bare wall a much less expensive than the other alternatives.

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post #13 of 23 Old 08-22-2007, 11:26 AM
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I remember not long ago a bar caught on fire after the band was using some pyrotechnics during their show. As I recall you could see eggcrate foam near the stage and it was blazing pretty good. I am thinking this was somewhere in New England?

Ahhh....found it


It was that fast. As soon as the pyrotechnics stopped, the flame had started on the egg-crate [foam] backing behind the stage and it just went up the ceiling and people stood and watched it," said Butler, said.

Here is the link to the full story
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/21/nightclub.fire/
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post #14 of 23 Old 08-22-2007, 11:50 AM
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Bass Addict,

i have over 3.4 of a roll of 1" Linacoustic Duct Liner that I used to line my front wall (I probably have 80' of the 100' roll left, it is 4' wide). I need to get it out of my garage and will dump it for less than I paid. I paid $155 for the whole roll. I am not sure how much shipping will be (I am in Virginia -23454), but I will sell it for $75 plus shipping (with a max of $100 total to your door - if it cost more that $25 to ship, I'll take the hit).

This is much better for you front walls than the egg crate as Ethan pointed out.

Let me know.
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post #15 of 23 Old 08-22-2007, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-dubb16 View Post

Bass Addict,

i have over 3.4 of a roll of 1" Linacoustic Duct Liner that I used to line my front wall (I probably have 80' of the 100' roll left, it is 4' wide). I need to get it out of my garage and will dump it for less than I paid. I paid $155 for the whole roll. I am not sure how much shipping will be (I am in Virginia -23454), but I will sell it for $75 plus shipping (with a max of $100 total to your door - if it cost more that $25 to ship, I'll take the hit).

This is much better for you front walls than the egg crate as Ethan pointed out.

Let me know.

If it is indeed a better way to go consider it sold. PM me with your paypal addy.

Travis

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post #16 of 23 Old 08-22-2007, 01:08 PM
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I'll take it if Travis doesn't.

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post #17 of 23 Old 08-24-2007, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

it is better than a bare wall a much less expensive than the other alternatives.

You got (I assume) a coupla grand or more invested in a nice TV and speakers, and you're willing to settle for crappy sound to save $100?

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post #18 of 23 Old 08-26-2007, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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You got (I assume) a coupla grand or more invested in a nice TV and speakers, and you're willing to settle for crappy sound to save $100?

--Ethan

Much more. That's why I'm trying to save the hunsky. OK, here is what I have decided on to start out with. 1" linacoustic lining the entire back wall, with either 6 Auralex pro panels or Ready Acoustic high frequency panels at the first three reflection points (covers front and back row).

My only question is should I use the 1" or 2" version. I read in the sticky that narrow rooms should try to not absorb as much as larger rooms, at the first reflection point to avoid killing the liveness of the room. Why I'm not quite sure. In the next couple months the back wall is going to get three 4" panels (one in each corner and one in the center). So if this is the case would the 1" work better for toning down the reflections or do you still think I need the absorption below 1000hz at the first reflection, which is where the two seem to differ.

Thanks

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post #19 of 23 Old 08-27-2007, 01:24 PM
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My only question is should I use the 1" or 2" version.

Neither. Really. Do yourself a favor and hook up with someone who actually knows what they're doing. It will cost you more than the cheap stuff, but will give you years of satisfaction and superior sound.

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post #20 of 23 Old 08-27-2007, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

Neither. Really. Do yourself a favor and hook up with someone who actually knows what they're doing. It will cost you more than the cheap stuff, but will give you years of satisfaction and superior sound.

--Ethan


Hmmm, that's the first time I have heard someone refer to Auralex as cheap.

I love all the "if you don't spend stupid money on acoustics you won't be happy" recommendations. I am just looking for some advice to tighten up my room a little bit. It's not a recording studio. I just want some simple advice based on the info I have given.

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post #21 of 23 Old 08-27-2007, 03:22 PM
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I think that is what we are all here to do. Get the advise to do things ourselves and save in the process. We would not be here asking questions if all we needed to do is use the yellow pages. How many here can afford to hire someone for every facet of their HT?

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post #22 of 23 Old 08-27-2007, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I think that is what we are all here to do. Get the advise to do things ourselves and save in the process. We would not be here asking questions if all we needed to do is use the yellow pages. How many here can afford to hire someone for every facet of their HT?


Exactly. If I had stupid money I wouldn't have built my theater myself. I recognize the fact that I do need treatments and have been doing some research but figured I'd get some opinions from others. If I had money to burn I would just hire someone to come and do it for me.

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post #23 of 23 Old 08-28-2007, 09:20 AM
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I just want some simple advice based on the info I have given.

Four inches beats only one or two inches hands down, especially on the back wall.

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