Thoughts on Baffle Walls - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 08-21-2007, 11:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I've done a little research on this topic and have the idea of how it needs to be built. The one thing I have not found is how thick the insulation should be on the front and back of the baffle. At this time I plan on using Lin RC 1" do you guys think this will be enough? Second how far from the screen should I put the baffle wall?


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post #2 of 29 Old 08-22-2007, 10:30 AM
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Hasn't BasementBob played around with baffles? I'd PM him.

Googling his site I came up with this link:

http://www.bobgolds.com/Baffel/home.htm

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post #3 of 29 Old 08-22-2007, 10:59 AM
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Don, interesting concept, I had to do some research to figure out what you were talking about.

http://www.thx.com/cinema/builtTHX/baffle.html

I'm curious about the improvement over just covering the entire front wall behind the speakers.

I seem to remember that Ruben talked about how far back from the screen the speaker faces should be but I forgot. Once you have that dimension then you should figure out how far back from the face of the speaker you want the baffle wall if not even. I'm not certain what material to use.

You might look at all of the various alternatives here for the wall.

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

The IIG 1.5 inch thick mineral wool board has some interesting numbers compared to the 1 inch Linacoustic RC

You have given me some food for thought as I plan my HT 2.0 with AT screen.Please keep us apprised of your progress and listening impressions.


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post #4 of 29 Old 08-22-2007, 11:01 AM
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You need to be careful with baffle wall construction. The depth of fiberglass on the face of the baffle will be a function of the speaker's performance. For example, Wilson Sophia's only "want" 1" because of their mid-range dip. Your mileage on other speakers will vary.

We also curve our baffles.

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post #5 of 29 Old 08-22-2007, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for chiming in Dennis, I have Klipsch RF7 speakers with horns. I planned on a slight curve as well.


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post #6 of 29 Old 08-22-2007, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Don, interesting concept, I had to do some research to figure out what you were talking about.

http://www.thx.com/cinema/builtTHX/baffle.html

I'm curious about the improvment over just covering the entire front wall behind the speakers.

I seem to remember that Ruben talked about how far back from the screen the speaker faces should be but I forgot. Once you have that dimension then you should figure out how far back from the face of the speaker you want the baffle wall if not even. I'm not certain what material to use.

You might look at all of the various alternatives here for the wall.

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

The IIG 1.5 inch thick mineral wool board has some interesting numbers compared to the 1 inch Linacoustic RC

You have given me some food for thought as I plan my HT 2.0 with AT screen.Please keep us apprised of your progress and listening impressions.



As with all my home theater adventures I will share my experience with the masses. At this time I plan on building a baffle wall using plywood, slightly curving the wall. The openings will be about 1" bigger than the speakers, and I'll probably use 1 inch Lin shield or Lin RC.

Today I finished 99% of the remaining drywall for the equipment room. I hope to finish the fabric and the other finishing tomorrow. I can't wait to install my Slim 5 rack, UPS delivered it today. The rest of the drawers and shelves will be here next week. I forgot to order the XBOX 360 custom plate and some other stuff.


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post #7 of 29 Old 08-22-2007, 06:58 PM
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Don, What effect do you think you will have on the overall sound performance of those speakers with the rear ports buried behind the baffle wall??

Just asking I don't have a clue.


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post #8 of 29 Old 08-23-2007, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I would expect the imaging of the highs to be slightly better. Since the sides of the screen wall are still going to be open I would figure the porting on the lows would be fine. At this time I have really good imaging, but I'm hoping the baffle wall will add to the clarity even if only a little. From what I have read a baffle wall prevents the sound waves from traveling behind the speaker, I think this is cabinet effect? Preventing this reinforces bass, and helps with imagining.

Now of course I didn't major in speaker design, or acoustic design so...


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post #9 of 29 Old 08-24-2007, 05:14 AM
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Will you be treating the wall areas behind the baffle and the rear side of the baffle so that area doesn't become a big echo chamber for the port sounds?


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post #10 of 29 Old 08-24-2007, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Will you be treating the wall areas behind the baffle and the rear side of the baffle so that area doesn't become a big echo chamber for the port sounds?

The whole room has treatments, sides and rear have 1" LIN RC on lower half 16 oz bat on upper part. The front wall, and sides behind stage have 2" of LIN RC top to bottom. Of course the soffits are treated as well.


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post #11 of 29 Old 08-24-2007, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Kellogg View Post

The whole room has treatments, sides and rear have 1" LIN RC on lower half 16 oz bat on upper part. The front wall, and sides behind stage have 2" of LIN RC top to bottom. Of course the soffits are treated as well.

You had mentioned using plywood for the baffle wall, I would stick a layer of LIN RC on the back side as well.


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post #12 of 29 Old 08-24-2007, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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THX Tech Pages


for most viewers physical discomfort begins when this angle exceeds 35 degrees. We strongly recommend that the layout of the auditorium adheres to this engineering guideline.

III. Sound System

A. Baffle Structure

1. Construction

With each site specific baffle drawing set supplied by the THX design office, the overall dimensions, materials specification, and installation directions must be closely followed. Also please note a minimum of 4'-3 " (1.3 meters) of available room is necessary behind the screen to construct the baffle.

2. Speaker Holes

a) Placement

The placement of the speaker holes in a THX baffle structure is very specific and is determined by the image sizes. A new baffle drawing must be generated by the THX design office if the image sizes change.

b) Size

The size of the speaker holes is determined by the equipment chosen from the THX approved equipment list.

3. Isolation Pads

One Mason "Super W" pad (Durometer 40) is used under each corner of the screen woofers and the subwoofers to isolate the vibrations of the speakers from the baffle structure. A list of Mason Industries' representatives is available from the THX design office.

4. Absorption on Face

The entire face of the baffle structure is covered with 1" (25 mm) Coated InsulSHIELD" Black, a product manufactured by Schuller International, Inc. This is a specific product. No substitutes are accepted unless the acoustical properties of the material in question are the same as that of the 1" (25 mm) Coated InsulSHIELD'" Black. In this case, a sample and specification of the material must be submitted to THX for approval.

5. Exit Corridors Behind Screen

In general, corridors behind the screen are difficult to deal with but they can be accommodated in most cases. If your theatre has screen wall exit corridors, make sure to send elevations to the THX design office for coordination.

Rev. 1/98 Page 9
6. Absorption on Demising Wall

The area behind the baffle structure should be covered with 2" (5 cm) of fiberglass. This should include the rear wall, one side wall, and the ceiling.

B. Surround Speakers

The surround speaker array is designed by THX to provide uniform coverage of the audience. THX supplies spacing, height above finished floor, and aiming angle for the loudspeakers.

If you have any sidewall treatments or interior design details with which you would like to coordinate the speaker layout, please let the THX design office know.

IV. What Architects Should Expect From THX

A. Drawings

1. Baffle

2. Surround Speaker Layout

3. Single Line Electrical

B. Reverberation Limits Curve

C. Equipment List

D. Resource Materials

1. EG-18

2. THX Architect's and Engineer's Manual

E. General Advice

1. Equipment 2. Construction
a) Common Wall b) Baffle c) Absorption Material
3. Installation 4. Projection
a) Images b) Sight Lines


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post #13 of 29 Old 08-24-2007, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Hope the above helps clear things up. I'm probably going to use 1-1.5" MDF to maintain over kill status. I'm still reading to see if I can find the calculation for speaker hole placement, it's depends on the speakers and image size.


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post #14 of 29 Old 08-24-2007, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Kellogg View Post

Hope the above helps clear things up. I'm probably going to use 1-1.5" MDF to maintain over kill status. I'm still reading to see if I can find the calculation for speaker hole placement, it's depends on the speakers and image size.

Do you have the 4ft 3 inches behind the Baffle?


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post #15 of 29 Old 08-24-2007, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Do you have the 4ft 3 inches behind the Baffle?

Yep sure do give or take 1/4 of an inch. Not only for spec but for all the SVS PB13u's I'm putting back there. My intent is to have 5 of them when I'm done.


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post #16 of 29 Old 05-01-2009, 05:39 AM
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Bumping this thread, I am contemplating a DIY baffle wall and curious on anyone else's experience.
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post #17 of 29 Old 05-30-2013, 07:46 AM
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Can I ask a very noob question ? What is the purpose of building a baffle wall ? I'm not sure I'm understanding ... But I'd like to.

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post #18 of 29 Old 05-30-2013, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Can I ask a very noob question ? What is the purpose of building a baffle wall ? I'm not sure I'm understanding ... But I'd like to.

Baffle walls are built to hide your speakers behind when you are using an acoustically transparent screen. They are generally very minimalistic in structure and covered with acoustically transparent fabric (in locations where the speakers would fire through the wall) or some type of black felt material which provides more light absorption than the fabric will. Hope that helps.


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post #19 of 29 Old 05-30-2013, 09:16 AM
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But why can't you just have normal speakers behind an AT screen ? What does the baffle do ?

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post #20 of 29 Old 05-30-2013, 09:23 AM
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Your center channel would be behind the AT screen, most likely centered to the middle, the L/R speakers would be setup to the left and right of the actual screen and would be exposed. The baffle wall with fabric covering would hide the L/R speakers and the subwoofer if you were to place that behind the screen as well
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post #21 of 29 Old 05-30-2013, 09:48 AM
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Ah.. So if your planning all your speakers behind AT screen then there is no need for baffle wall.

Baffle is to build in a speaker that's not really an in wall speaker to appear as it is an in wall speaker ?

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post #22 of 29 Old 05-30-2013, 09:51 AM
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There are good acoustical reasons for building a baffle wall. See my blog post on THX baffle wall design and build.


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post #23 of 29 Old 05-31-2013, 12:38 PM
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But it sounds like you need special speakers that are designed to use with a baffle wall.

If you had normal speakers (bookshelf, tower etc.. ) Your probably better off not using a baffle wall ?

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post #24 of 29 Old 05-31-2013, 02:02 PM
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Its more that you need a suitable way to EQ them if baffle mounted as speakers not "designed" for baffles have different crossovers as opposed to those that are....

.....on the more pressing point of how to design one of these....NFI

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post #25 of 29 Old 05-31-2013, 02:23 PM
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That makes sense to me. It seems like baffle speakers are reserved for the high end and are expensive. Are there affordable speaker options for using baffle wall ? (like $5000 speaker system)


Or better- A DIY or build your own option ?

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post #26 of 29 Old 05-31-2013, 03:12 PM
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DIY is a little hard unless you've got a proven design. I'd have a look at Triad's in wall speakers.

If you're thinking about a baffle you'd probably want to speak to someone like The Erskine Group as you've only got one go at getting it right (unless you want to tear it down)

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post #27 of 29 Old 05-31-2013, 04:40 PM
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The 4Pi speaker kits from Wayne Parham are approved for in wall (or in baffle mounting) by the designer. Fits your budget and will perform well. That is a 15 inch woofer


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post #28 of 29 Old 08-30-2013, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post



The 4Pi speaker kits from Wayne Parham are approved for in wall (or in baffle mounting) by the designer. Fits your budget and will perform well. That is a 15 inch woofer

I am not sure why I did not see your reply sooner. (it has been a while)

I was looking at those speakers, those and also the SEOS designs. My specific question I think you just answered- would the same be true for like model SEOS ?

The difference with Wayne's is he uses the JBL driver (premium option) with the alternate tweeter (as opposed to DNA360 from DIYsoundgroup). Both Crossovers appear to work well and are tested well with many users.

I am struggling between the two- as the JBL option like you have is more expensive (due to the drive and tweeter costing more) What I am trying to weigh out is three things:

#1.) Is the difference worth the extra cost ? (Is it even noticeably better ? )
#2. ) If the difference is not obviously worth the cost- does SEOS work as well in such a set up ? (if not back to the pi )
#3.) Worth bothering with a baffle wall versus just a fake screen wall.

Thanks for the reply you have already provided, I wonder-- What do you think ? ^

You have heard both the SEOS and the Pi - what are your personal thoughts on my questions ? (or anyone else ?)

Thanks in advance!

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #29 of 29 Old 02-25-2014, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Kellogg View Post


Yep
sure do give or take 1/4 of an inch. Not only for spec but for all the SVS PB13u's I'm putting back there. My intent is to have 5 of them when I'm done.

Ok Don, you have been living with your baffle wall for five years now. In retrospect, any lessons learned?

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