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post #271 of 528 Old 12-30-2009, 10:24 PM
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RMK, what are you using for your HT preamp. I saw that you put up front effect speakers. Plus know you have four subs. I have the halo C2 and the Halo C3 does look kind of nice. It can be configured to a 7.3 system or with some effort a 9.1 system. Since I am using the QSC-30 eq I am able to connect 2 subs to it. So, with that pre I can go sort of 9.2 if I was crazy enough. But I was just wondering what pre you were using.
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post #272 of 528 Old 12-30-2009, 11:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

RMK, what are you using for your HT preamp. I saw that you put up front effect speakers. Plus know you have four subs. I have the halo C2 and the Halo C3 does look kind of nice. It can be configured to a 7.3 system or with some effort a 9.1 system. Since I am using the QSC-30 eq I am able to connect 2 subs to it. So, with that pre I can go sort of 9.2 if I was crazy enough. But I was just wondering what pre you were using.
Thanks

I have been using Integra SSP's. I had a 9.8 and just upgraded to the 80.1 last month. I haven't seen anything on the C3 but it seems the small high end manufacturers are having trouble getting these new HDMI processors to market. The QSC does provide some nice flexibility for multiple subs.

I like the Integras, they have the features I need, sound good and are reasonably priced.

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post #273 of 528 Old 12-31-2009, 06:27 AM
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I was wondering the same since I saw your amp in the sale forum.

I know you've mentioned running audyssey in your room, but I'm curious if your using the 8 position setup or if you're using more than 8 (up to 32) with the installers kit.

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post #274 of 528 Old 12-31-2009, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plain fan View Post

I was wondering the same since I saw your amp in the sale forum.

I know you've mentioned running audyssey in your room, but I'm curious if your using the 8 position setup or if you're using more than 8 (up to 32) with the installers kit.

I am running the standard 8 position setup using Audyssey MultEQ XT in the Integra. I purchased the Pro Kit from Audyssey and ran it several times (up to 18 positions) but found it no better than the standard Audyssey included with the processor. The limited tweakability of the FR, better quality mic and additional position measurements were of little value IMO. Also, running Pro takes much longer than the already tedious one hour it takes me to run a 8 position (9 speakers plus two subs) MultEQ-XT.

Like so many things in this hobby, marketing hype by manufacturers and trade rags plus testimonials from overzealous owners creates an Emperor's New Clothes mind set. As you can tell, I am a skeptic by nature and this hobby is fertile ground for nourishing that trait.

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post #275 of 528 Old 12-31-2009, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I have been using Integra SSP's. I had a 9.8 and just upgraded to the 80.1 last month. I haven't seen anything on the C3 but it seems the small high end manufacturers are having trouble getting these new HDMI processors to market. The QSC does provide some nice flexibility for multiple subs.

I like the Integras, they have the features I need, sound good and are reasonably priced.

My dealer has B&K, Lexicon, Onkyo, Parasound and Pioneer. I know that Onkyo has a dedicated preamp but I don't know if I can get it in the US. I can't find any info on it at their site. The specs on the C3 look good. It seems to have nice features for room setup and EQ functions. The reason I want to stick with this dealer is that I have known him for a while and he will probably give me some sort of a trade in for my C2. Since the C2 is outdated, not sure how many other places would do that. We shall see.
Thanks for the info.

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post #276 of 528 Old 12-31-2009, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I am running the standard 8 position setup using Audyssey MultEQ XT in the Integra. I purchased the Pro Kit from Audyssey and ran it several times (up to 18 positions) but found it no better than the standard Audyssey included with the processor. The limited tweakability of the FR, better quality mic and additional position measurements were of little value IMO. Also, running Pro takes much longer than the already tedious one hour it takes me to run a 8 position (9 speakers plus two subs) MultEQ-XT.

Like so many things in this hobby, marketing hype by manufacturers and trade rags plus testimonials from overzealous owners creates an Emperor's New Clothes mind set. As you can tell, I am a skeptic by nature and this hobby is fertile ground for nourishing that trait.

Even with 8 positions, I have a hard enough enough time rationalizing using all of them. I don't know what I'd do with 18.

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post #277 of 528 Old 12-31-2009, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mathelo View Post

Even with 8 positions, I have a hard enough enough time rationalizing using all of them. I don't know what I'd do with 18.

Louis

Of course the theory is more positions = more data for Audyssey to better optomize the the EQ settings for the room. With the Pro Kit, more positions = more time and helps justify the cost. Honestly, your average 10 year old could run the Audyssey Pro Software.

Whatever Audyssey is doing, it isn't very noticable in my room. I can switch Audyssey on and off and not really be able to tell the difference.

That would make for an interesting DB test.

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post #278 of 528 Old 12-31-2009, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Of course the theory is more positions = more data for Audyssey to better optomize the the EQ settings for the room. With the Pro Kit, more positions = more time and helps justify the cost. Honestly, your average 10 year old could run the Audyssey Pro Software.

Whatever Audyssey is doing, it isn't very noticable in my room. I can switch Audyssey on and off and not really be able to tell the difference.

That would make for an interesting DB test.

It seems to me that Audyssey would have the least impact in a room like yours where plenty of acoustical treatment has been applied.

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post #279 of 528 Old 12-31-2009, 03:35 PM
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I would agree with Louis, on your results with Audyssey. You have spent a great deal of time in treating your room to get the proper acoustic results, so it is no surprise to me that you don't see any great results. Your effort and room is my example I use when talking to people about how outstanding results can be accomplished by a DIYer. Keep up the great work!

BTW, have you ever considered adding Bass Shakers (or tactile transducers) to your room to increase the perceived base response? Or do you achieve the desired level of base through your subs?

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post #280 of 528 Old 12-31-2009, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post

how much do those cost? Look spectacular



The guy who sell them fluctuate in price but they are usually a cool G I love wood carve art pieces like those, in fact I have a cheap version I got from china town which cost me a few hundies from my single days but RMK's are quite stunning...







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post #281 of 528 Old 12-31-2009, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plain fan View Post

I would agree with Louis, on your results with Audyssey. You have spent a great deal of time in treating your room to get the proper acoustic results, so it is no surprise to me that you don't see any great results. Your effort and room is my example I use when talking to people about how outstanding results can be accomplished by a DIYer. Keep up the great work!

BTW, have you ever considered adding Bass Shakers (or tactile transducers) to your room to increase the perceived base response? Or do you achieve the desired level of base through your subs?

Thank you for the nice comments Grady, I am actually adding some more panels to the ceiling and some that will be combined with wood art diffusers. Keith Yates recommended the combination and many high end bass traps have both absorption and diffusion incorporated so I'm going to give it a go.

Re TT's I bought and sold both Buttkickers and Aura Bass Shakers. I had them on a couch and chair in my old room and my SO absolutely hated them. She likes bass but thought the TT's felt artificial and I had to agree. They have abig following so it may just have been my poor implementation.

The dual Danley TH-SPUDS under my second row riser and the dual JTR Captivators up front when combined with my second story suspended floor HT room give me all the shaking I could ever want. It really gets scary at times so no, TT's are not on my radar.

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The guy who sell them fluctuate in price but they are usually a cool G I love wood carve art pieces like those, in fact I have a cheap version I got from china town which cost me a few hundies from my single days but RMK's are quite stunning...







Djoel


Thanks David, I have no idea how effective these Art Panels are as diffusors. They are kind of visually lost in the current location so I'm going to be mounting them in front of some GIK 242 panels and we'll see how that goes. I will be running some before and after sweeps to see if there are any significant changes to the rooms FR.

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post #282 of 528 Old 01-01-2010, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Thanks David, I have no idea how effective these Art Panels are as diffusors. They are kind of visually lost in the current location so I'm going to be mounting them in front of some GIK 242 panels and we'll see how that goes. I will be running some before and after sweeps to see if there are any significant changes to the rooms FR.

It's Daniel, but strangely enough I've been called David in many instances. I'm guessing my best bud goes by the name David.

Hey Robert that's a great idea putting the wood panels behind the GIK, so I'll be looking for pic of the finished project.

I thought of doing that once before the project was nixed by the governess , actually got the idea from Tim the Hifisponge's room deceptively but cleverly hiding the absorbers behind room divider.


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post #283 of 528 Old 01-01-2010, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

The dual Danley TH-SPUDS under my second row riser and the dual JTR Captivators up front when combined with my second story suspended floor HT room give me all the shaking I could ever want. It really gets scary at times so no, TT's are not on my radar.

I totally agreed, my wife still reminds me of your setup when i turn up the system, we need bass liked RMK's!!!!!
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post #284 of 528 Old 01-01-2010, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

It's Daniel, but strangely enough I've been called David in many instances. I'm guessing my best bud goes by the name David.

Hey Robert that's a great idea putting the wood panels behind the GIK, so I'll be looking for pic of the finished project.

I thought of doing that once before the project was nixed by the governess , actually got the idea from Tim the Hifisponge's room deceptively but cleverly hiding the absorbers behind room divider.


Dan.

Daniel ... I knew that . Sorry, and I will post pics.

Quote:
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I totally agreed, my wife still reminds me of your setup when i turn up the system, we need bass liked RMK's!!!!!

You know Wilson, we are very lucky to be with women who feel that way.

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post #285 of 528 Old 01-02-2010, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Daniel ... I knew that . Sorry, and I will post pics.

No problem Bro Yes, I can't wait to see them..


You know Wilson, we are very lucky to be with women who feel that way.[/quote]


Yes you guy are...


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post #286 of 528 Old 01-04-2010, 12:35 PM
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I just ordered my 8 GIK room treatments. I was going to go for a color that matched my carpet. But since my room is small someone said that it might make it look even smaller. That actually made sense so I just went with the off-white. Can't wait to hear what they do for my room.

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post #287 of 528 Old 01-04-2010, 11:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

I just ordered my 8 GIK room treatments. I was going to go for a color that matched my carpet. But since my room is small someone said that it might make it look even smaller. That actually made sense so I just went with the off-white. Can't wait to hear what they do for my room.

I just got 6 more in today myself. Not sure what the total GIK count is now but it is up there. I installed 4 242's with the Art diffusers on the side walls and two more on the ceiling flanking the projector. I didn't have time to run Audyssey but here are a couple of pics. The flash really washes everything out so I will take some more shots with natural light. I'm going to add some halogen spots to highlight the diffuser panels. The room is under lit and I need the additional lights anyway.




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post #288 of 528 Old 01-05-2010, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I just got 6 more in today myself. Not sure what the total GIK count is now but it is up there. I installed 4 242's with the Art diffusers on the side walls and two more on the ceiling flanking the projector. I didn't have time to run Audyssey but here are a couple of pics. The flash really washes everything out so I will take some more shots with natural light. I'm going to add some halogen spots to highlight the diffuser panels. The room is under lit and I need the additional lights anyway.

This is what you said on page 8
17- 242’s (11 on the front wall, 6 on the ceiling)
4-244’s (back wall)
2- Pillar Traps (back corners)
So now it looks like you have 27 total traps and 2 pillar traps. Yea, I would say you have a lot in there now. That still looks like a killer room . I hope to have them by next Wed or Thurs. Once I get them installed I will see if anything else needs to be done treatment wise. But I can't wait. I hope to get someone over to take some measurements so I can just see if the frequency response looks different. Do you see more traps in your future.

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post #289 of 528 Old 01-05-2010, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

This is what you said on page 8
17- 242’s (11 on the front wall, 6 on the ceiling)
4-244’s (back wall)
2- Pillar Traps (back corners)
So now it looks like you have 27 total traps and 2 pillar traps. Yea, I would say you have a lot in there now. That still looks like a killer room . I hope to have them by next Wed or Thurs. Once I get them installed I will see if anything else needs to be done treatment wise. But I can't wait. I hope to get someone over to take some measurements so I can just see if the frequency response looks different. Do you see more traps in your future.

I have found the treatments made subtle improvements but then, I feel that way about every change/upgrade. I think my rooms irregular shape has been a benefit acoustically and it didn't sound bad untreated.

Regarding the future, I tend to be a poor prognosticator.

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post #290 of 528 Old 01-05-2010, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I have found the treatments made subtile improvements but then, I feel that way about every change/upgrade. I think my rooms irregular shape has been a benifit acoustically and it didn't sound bad untreated.

Regarding the future, I tend to be a poor prognosticator.

To be totaly honest, I don't think my room sounds bad either untreated.
Mark said this "I'm pretty happy with the experience we achieved in Mike's small, untreated room". Everyone who has heard my system has been very impressed. Again my room is only 12.5fx9.5fx8f(LxWxH). So I am really hoping that treatments add to the experience.

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post #291 of 528 Old 01-06-2010, 12:08 PM
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WOW...The wood panels look effing fantastic on the GIK panels, love the color scheme too..It gives it that extra POP! Beuatiful work Rob


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post #292 of 528 Old 01-07-2010, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

To be totaly honest, I don't think my room sounds bad either untreated.
Mark said this "I'm pretty happy with the experience we achieved in Mike's small, untreated room". Everyone who has heard my system has been very impressed. Again my room is only 12.5fx9.5fx8f(LxWxH). So I am really hoping that treatments add to the experience.

I hope so too and I look forward to your comments.

Quote:
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WOW...The wood panels look effing fantastic on the GIK panels, love the color scheme too..It gives it that extra POP! Beuatiful work Rob


Dan


Thanks Dan, they do look better mounted on the absorption panels but I am still on the fence regarding improved SQ. Any change has been subtle.

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post #293 of 528 Old 01-09-2010, 10:14 PM
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Rob, no need to state the obvious again but you have a very powerful setup that is able to generate some serious SPL. Did you "isolate" the room at all?
I.E Green Glue, Quiet Rock or some other measure. I ordered the Great Gamma today and I am very curious to see if it makes a difference in my setup.
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post #294 of 528 Old 01-10-2010, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Rob, no need to state the obvious again but you have a very powerful setup that is able to generate some serious SPL. Did you "isolate" the room at all?
I.E Green Glue, Quiet Rock or some other measure. I ordered the Great Gamma today and I am very curious to see if it makes a difference in my setup.
Thanks

Thanks Mike, regarding isolation, I didn't really do a lot other than heavily insulating the floor and using insulating foam for the wall/floor seams. The one adjoining room (other than the one below) is a guest bedroom and that wall is a shear wall so already relatively sound proof.

I did add to the structural integrity of the room by adding additional I-beam floor joists. They are 16" OC vs. the code required 24". Good idea considering my love of bass .

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post #295 of 528 Old 01-10-2010, 10:31 AM
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See, my room was already there. It is just a "bonus room" that is on the second floor. So major construction is out of the question. One of the walls is basically facing into the house so that is probably a big problem but I can't do anything about that. I have an attic above me that has basic insulation in it. I probably don't have much inbetween my walls. So I am trying to do what I can. I have a solid core door with a sweep so that did a little I think. I just don't know if I use "blown in" insulation if that would do anything and if it worth the effort. I hope the GG does something .
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post #296 of 528 Old 01-10-2010, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I just got 6 more in today myself. Not sure what the total GIK count is now but it is up there. I installed 4 242's with the Art diffusers on the side walls and two more on the ceiling flanking the projector. I didn't have time to run Audyssey but here are a couple of pics. The flash really washes everything out so I will take some more shots with natural light. I'm going to add some halogen spots to highlight the diffuser panels. The room is under lit and I need the additional lights anyway.




Very nice!!! That room keeps getting better and better.

How are you liking those slanted 8's for the back channels?
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post #297 of 528 Old 01-10-2010, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Very nice!!! That room keeps getting better and better.

How are you liking those slanted 8's for the back channels?


Thanks Larry,

How are those DTS-10's treating you? I bet you are in bass heaven.

With their 30 degree front baffle the Slanted 8's are great for SB duty especially mounted high like mine are. They also make outstanding Height speakers and I have a pair doing just that. If you are ever in the area come on by for a listen.

I repositioned panels and diffusers, installed a couple of Great Gramma's under the Captivators and I have a pair of Auralex bass traps on order that will fill the panel gap under the surround back speakers. The tweaking never stops.



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post #298 of 528 Old 01-11-2010, 07:09 PM
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Thanks Larry,

How are those DTS-10's treating you? I bet you are in bass heaven.

With their 30 degree front baffle the Slanted 8's are great for SB duty especially mounted high like mine are. They also make outstanding Height speakers and I have a pair doing just that. If you are ever in the area come on by for a listen.

I repositioned panels and diffusers, installed a couple of Great Gramma's under the Captivators and I have a pair of Auralex bass traps on order that will fill the panel gap under the surround back speakers. The tweaking never stops.



The DTS 10s are great. Deep tight bass with lots of pulse waves. The two easily surpass my DTS 20.

The only problem is I only got to listen to a couple of movies and SACDs. The DTS 10s are in the gararage getting painted and the cold weather is making the drying process too long. I'm going to get a space heater to move things along.

I bet those slanted 8s really enhance your back sound field. JTRs are definitely on my list of candidate speakers for the future. As I get closer I may take you up on that invite.

Also, if you want to hear how far your system has come by listening to a more humble system, let me know. We'll set something up.
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post #299 of 528 Old 01-12-2010, 12:14 PM
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Rob, I should get my room treatments AND the Great Gramma tomorrow. I can't believe that it is timed so perfectly. The I just need to get my contractor to help me install everything. I can't wait to hear the difference.

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post #300 of 528 Old 01-12-2010, 12:46 PM
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OK, so the back row of seats sits on the SPUDS as a riser. That is pretty cool. But unless the perspective is off in that picture, it looks like the Spuds come out a bit in front of the seats. Is there enough space for you to rest your feet on the spud? Can you sit and have your feet comfortably in front of the spud. Just trying to get a mental picture.
And that is an interesting view you have of the Captivators and the SPUDS. Those Caps must be freakin sick. But in a good way of course.

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