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post #511 of 528 Old 07-26-2013, 04:18 PM
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It would be very hard for a single 18'' horn loaded sub to keep up with 8 18'' drivers. The ultra LF's go handily to the multiple sealed 18's. Probably the rest of the frequency spectrum as well. Really not sure. That is a lot of displacement with all of those drivers.

But, for your size room which is pretty small I think you just need to get to a certain decibel level with a single subwoofer. I am guessing that level is probably somewhere north of reference for most bass heads. Reference bass being peaks of 115 db's. As long as you don't have audible compression in my opinion nothing more is needed in terms of raw output anyway. Everyone's appetite for bass is a little different though. And if you want to have reference level bass down into the single digits it will take some doing.

I would keep the HSU's for modal smoothing. Move them around the room after you get your OS running until you find the point in the room where it smooths the room modes out. I am no expert but there is a lot of info on this forum to help us out.

I have a place for smoothing subs located at the 2/3 point on my side wall. I will be able to put up to 3 18'' subs stacked. Probably DIY. For now I have a little Rythmik. We will see how well (if) it works.
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post #512 of 528 Old 07-26-2013, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post


I have heard 2 OS's in the same room before with Jeff at the helm and it was the single most insane bass experience I have ever or will ever have in terms of sheer output and pressurization. I will simply never subject myself to anything more than that. Carp was there too so he can attest to the structural damage that was done on that night!

Definite understatement...................wink.gif

If I could have somehow fit two OS's in my front stage, I would have purchased the Noesis 212's.

Given that fact............I went with Triad for fronts and surrounds......and an S2 for LF. Depending on how the room measures........I might be looking for a Captivator for the rear or look for small subs to fit in my columns to fill.

The Noesis 212's are fantastic speakers........for the money you can't go wrong. IMHO, I felt the Triads were more pleasing to my ears at moderate levels since I'm more likely to listen at -5 to -10. Since my room was designed with treatments for Triads.........I just went that route. I could have easily been a Noesis 212 owner..............
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post #513 of 528 Old 08-27-2013, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like I have been remiss in posting to or even looking at this thread. All is well here and I have added an HTPC that is functional but not optimized. I need to look at additional software to streamline the ripping and library functions.

Planning on selling my fixed screen and going back to the dual display but with a larger LCD and a powered AT screen this time. Anyone wanting a nice Seymour 16:9 fixed screen can PM me with an offer. It is 126" diag.

The OS's and Noesis and JTR surrounds are all I will ever need so standing pat there for the foreseeable. cool.gif




Edit:

Foreseeable was apparently 6 months .... tongue.gif

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post #514 of 528 Old 01-13-2014, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Been a while since an update to the Build Thread and quite a lot has happened with BIG changes pending (but not those described above smile.gif ).

By BIG I mean that literally as well as figuratively. Gone are the amazing Orbit Shifters and Noesis 212HT-LP LCR's as well as my Slanted 8 height speakers. Also gone (selling soon) is the Seymour AV H110 Center Stage XD (126" daig). It is a completely reasonably question to ask "bigger than these ^ eek.gif and the short answer is yes, quite a bit bigger.

So what is up in my wacky world is the following:

Ordered 3 (LCR) JTR (I assume they will be in the Noesis family) 215T tower speakers. These speakers will have the Noesis 212 CD with a new larger wood horn (the 212 was aluminum) and 2 15" high excursion woofers in each bottom slot ported cabinet. Speaking of the cabinets, they are big ... as in 72"X17"X22" (HWD). These are true full range speakers with a projected frequency range of 18hz-24khz +/-3db, 95db/1w1m.

These speakers will replace the subs and LCR's. They will be run full range (including the LFE channel) and the mixing will be done by a RANE RPM88 Multiprocessor (DSP and Mixer). I am going to try running these monsters with my Wyred 4 Sound 7 channel amp. (front channels have the 1000wpc modules) and I believe (hope) they will drive the 215T's but if necessary, more power will be added.

To accommodate these BIG speakers I'm getting a new Seymour 136" (diag) AT screen (not the 4K). This will allow me to better space the LCR's and, still keep them behind the screen. This is a nice bump in screen size and if it is too much for me, the back row center just might become the sweet spot.

I'm planning a GTG on Saturday March 29th. Jeff Permanian will be flying out to help install and setup the 215's. I have invited several folks and have room for a few more. I'd like to keep it to 20 so if you are interested please let me know via PM. I will create a GTG Thread in early Feb as a posting area for comments and questions. Keith Yates has once again expressed interest in attending schedule allowing and Keith's attendance always makes things much more interesting as he is truly an expert in all things audio and Home Theater.

So, that's the news here and I hope to see some of you at the end of March. cool.gif

Best,
Rob

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post #515 of 528 Old 01-13-2014, 06:33 PM
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Wow........................

Your are a man on a mission! wink.gif

Getting rid of the OS's must have been a difficult decision...........................those monster were simply amazing. Would really like to hear an explanation on reasons why? Trying something new?

One of these:







With a larger screen, I'd figure you would be changing out your projector too! The Sony 1000ES........or should I say 1100ES would be right up your alley!! biggrin.gif


Remember, if you're ever in Oregon, should stop by and have a look at 12 ft screen from 12 ft viewing distance.........................immersion galore!!! cool.gif
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post #516 of 528 Old 01-13-2014, 08:10 PM
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Congrats on the change, best of luck smile.gif
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post #517 of 528 Old 01-13-2014, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

Wow........................

Your are a man on a mission! wink.gif

Getting rid of the OS's must have been a difficult decision...........................those monster were simply amazing. Would really like to hear an explanation on reasons why? Trying something new?

One of these:







With a larger screen, I'd figure you would be changing out your projector too! The Sony 1000ES........or should I say 1100ES would be right up your alley!! biggrin.gif


Remember, if you're ever in Oregon, should stop by and have a look at 12 ft screen from 12 ft viewing distance.........................immersion galore!!! cool.gif

Man on a mission or upgradeitis remission? smile.gif

I am such a sucker for a "new concept" product. It's not like full range speakers are unusual, but these 215T's with the larger horn and 2 long throw 15's was just too intriguing to pass up. It will be fun to play them in Stereo with the 4 15's doing their thing. Also, I had the OS's almost four years and despite your's and others demo sessions, I rarely used more than 40-50% of the potential output.

So on to the next chapter plus, I can always go back ... although I'm a mostly forward kind of person. smile.gif

Thanks for the invite and I would love to hear your room and check out the projector, cool.gif

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post #518 of 528 Old 01-13-2014, 08:22 PM
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Wish I was in the US... would definitely be one of the top destination to be at... History in the making as this would be the first anyone would ever be able to get a whiff of the 215s...

RMK, what I am interested in most is whether these beasts can be run from just a capable AVR (are they 4ohms or 8 ohms? 4 ohms would mean a capable avr could double it's wattage). At 95dB, it's still pretty sensitive and with an avr capable of 250 watts into 4 ohms (any typical 140 watts per channel avr into 8 ohms), i think it'll be loud enough.
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post #519 of 528 Old 01-13-2014, 11:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Wish I was in the US... would definitely be one of the top destination to be at... History in the making as this would be the first anyone would ever be able to get a whiff of the 215s...

RMK, what I am interested in most is whether these beasts can be run from just a capable AVR (are they 4ohms or 8 ohms? 4 ohms would mean a capable avr could double it's wattage). At 95dB, it's still pretty sensitive and with an avr capable of 250 watts into 4 ohms (any typical 140 watts per channel avr into 8 ohms), i think it'll be loud enough.

Sorry you can't make the short trip ... wink.gif

The subs are what will draw the power. Two 15's in each cabinet means the power requirements go well beyond what an AVR can provide. IMHO smile.gif

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post #520 of 528 Old 01-14-2014, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Sorry you can't make the short trip ... wink.gif

The subs are what will draw the power. Two 15's in each cabinet means the power requirements go well beyond what an AVR can provide. IMHO smile.gif

Well, I'll sure to pay you a visit once my Jet Pack arrives... tongue.gif

Here's what I am confused about.

Since the speakers are rated 95dB, doesn't that mean that across the whole spectrum, it'll be about 95dB sensitive? Which means that given 250 watts or thereabouts, you'll easily hit 120dB at 1m (depending on how far you sit, this might be enough to hit reference), even for the bass (down to 18hz, which may be down 3dB).

Or, am I missing something here?
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post #521 of 528 Old 01-14-2014, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

Well, I'll sure to pay you a visit once my Jet Pack arrives... tongue.gif

Here's what I am confused about.

Since the speakers are rated 95dB, doesn't that mean that across the whole spectrum, it'll be about 95dB sensitive? Which means that given 250 watts or thereabouts, you'll easily hit 120dB at 1m (depending on how far you sit, this might be enough to hit reference), even for the bass (down to 18hz, which may be down 3dB).

Or, am I missing something here?

Since these are full range speakers and the LFE will be mixed into the main channels, the power demands will be much greater than a normal setup with a 120Hz high pass and a separate LFE channel to sub. There is a reason that Jeff (and others) use 2400-4000kw amps for the subs. This is really exploring new territory for me so I'm kind of white caneing my way through it ... smile.gif

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post #522 of 528 Old 01-14-2014, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Since these are full range speakers and the LFE will be mixed into the main channels, the power demands will be much greater than a normal setup with a 120Hz high pass and a separate LFE channel to sub. There is a reason that Jeff (and others) use 2400-4000kw amps for the subs. This is really exploring new territory for me so I'm kind of white caneing my way through it ... smile.gif

Right. I guess we'll have to wait till march to see how things goes... biggrin.gif
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post #523 of 528 Old 03-19-2014, 11:37 PM
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http://www.avsforum.com/t/905600/new-space/510#post_23675331

The photo in Post #513 shows absorbers placed above your 212 LCR. Any reason why? What improvement does it make?
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post #524 of 528 Unread Yesterday, 07:45 PM
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Hello Sir

I seem to have the same "upgradeitis" affliction as you, but my wife is nowhere near as understanding of my HT obsession as yours seems to be! That is why I need to get this right the first time!
i am a building a new house with a dedicated media room (20Lx18Wx10H) and was considering Revel Performas or JTR Noesis (212s with Captivator subs or 215s with no subs) plus the slanted 8s as my 4 surrounds.

Could you please give me an honest opinion on whether you think the JTRs are that much better than the Revels? The reason that I'm asking is twofold.

Firstly, I love the "cosmetic" look of consumer floor standers and would be able to display my Revels in the room.

Secondly, if I go with the JTRs, I will definitely have to build a baffle wall to hide the JTRs. There is no way my wife would allow those to be displayed! This would also shrink the room by approximately 3 feet and I would then probably have to shrink my 16x9 screen size from 150" to 130". not something that I'm too enthused about doing.

First world problems, I know, but regardless, it's causing me some stress.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
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post #525 of 528 Unread Today, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rabindu View Post
Hello Sir

I seem to have the same "upgradeitis" affliction as you, but my wife is nowhere near as understanding of my HT obsession as yours seems to be! That is why I need to get this right the first time!
i am a building a new house with a dedicated media room (20Lx18Wx10H) and was considering Revel Performas or JTR Noesis (212s with Captivator subs or 215s with no subs) plus the slanted 8s as my 4 surrounds.

Could you please give me an honest opinion on whether you think the JTRs are that much better than the Revels? The reason that I'm asking is twofold.

Firstly, I love the "cosmetic" look of consumer floor standers and would be able to display my Revels in the room.

Secondly, if I go with the JTRs, I will definitely have to build a baffle wall to hide the JTRs. There is no way my wife would allow those to be displayed! This would also shrink the room by approximately 3 feet and I would then probably have to shrink my 16x9 screen size from 150" to 130". not something that I'm too enthused about doing.

First world problems, I know, but regardless, it's causing me some stress.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Having had the Performas and their big brothers the Ultimas (I & II's) ultimately (pun intended ), I was not happy with either as HT or for that matter Bluray concert applications. Although they are relatively nice looking speakers, they are still big boxes and get low WAF points.

One thing to consider are the Noesis 210RM's for LCR plus the Slanted 8's as surrounds. Add add a couple of Captivators and you would have a world class sound system. At only 14" in depth (210RM's) would could cut your baffle wall depth in half. That would allow a 138" screen and that is the size I currently have. I sit 12' away and it is plenty big.

That would be my recommendation.

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post #526 of 528 Unread Today, 12:54 AM
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Thank you for your timely reply. Plenty to think about!
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post #527 of 528 Unread Today, 07:25 AM
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Rob,


This was a great thread to see the evolution of your space and how it became what it is today which I think is one of the best on all of AVS. If I ever get out to CA...I will surely let you know because I would love to experience it since I'm familiar with the 215's.

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post #528 of 528 Unread Today, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for your timely reply. Plenty to think about!
I don't often make specific recommendations but the more I think about a 210RM front end the more I like it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabs17 View Post
Rob,

This was a great thread to see the evolution of your space and how it became what it is today which I think is one of the best on all of AVS. If I ever get out to CA...I will surely let you know because I would love to experience it since I'm familiar with the 215's.
Thanks for the comments but it is a simple room and setup. There are much better here on AVS and I'm good with that. Of course if you even make it out this way you have an open invitation.

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