Theater for Hobbits - Big screen, miniscule space! - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 219 Old 12-08-2007, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick C View Post

Tomorrow, you will have a folding chairs in there watching a movie. You'll be propping your center channel up on a milk crate.

Yeah, this is really no joke. A few years ago I upgraded my projector but didn't have the right ceiling mount for it. I put it on a tall stack of storage boxes "just to try it out", shimming it to the appropriate height and angle with some old magazines and cardboard. I put 700 hours on it before I finally got it ceiling-mounted last month -- just in time to replace it with a better model.

My audio situation is even worse, thanks to a pair of headphones.
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post #32 of 219 Old 12-12-2007, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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No photo updates this weekend (because, let's face it, hanging sheetrock is booooring) but all the walls are now up - HT, stairway and laundry. Just a couple of small soffits left, and one wall in the furnace room (the "back side" of the right-hand HT wall) for fire protection since I insulated it for sound. Then it's on to taping and mudding. Which could go quickly and easily or rapidly degenerate into a living hell.

On the fun side of things, I went up to Glasscell Isofab, which is the big commercial insulation supplier in the Greater Toronto area, to pick up some acoustic stuff. I had a chance to take a peek in their warehouse, which was stacked to the rafters with JM products - Linacoustic RC and Standard in various thicknesses, and lots of the Ottawa Fibre alternatives to the Owens-Corning panels. Their minimum order is pretty small for an industrial yard, so if you're looking for the good stuff in Southern Ontario, this place should definitely be on your must-shop list.

The smallest order for LA they will do is a 100' roll by four feet which was WAY too much for my project (even if I split it) so I ended up picking up one bundle of 1" OFI-48, the Canadian equivalent of OC703, which covers 96 square feet and fit nicely into my wagon. I know a lot of small-room builders sometimes skimp out on the acoustic treatment side of things, but I'm really looking forward to experimenting with this stuff in my space.

I also just ordered a few yards of the GOM Anchorage fabric in graphite from Fabricmate to go with it. Hopefully, the drywall finishing will fly and I'll be moving onto this stuff sooner rather than later.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #33 of 219 Old 12-12-2007, 09:17 AM
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Hey snowcarver

I have a ton of gom samples that you are welcome too. all sorts of styles PM me your address if you are interested and I will mail them out

Scott

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post #34 of 219 Old 12-12-2007, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by snowkarver View Post

On the fun side of things, I went up to Glasscell Isofab, which is the big commercial insulation supplier in the Greater Toronto area, to pick up some acoustic stuff.

.

Hey, that's where I got my stuff..... (might find away to use up all my Linacoustic RC)


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post #35 of 219 Old 12-12-2007, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
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W00lly, thanks for the offer. I ordered GOM samples for all the colors I was interested in last week from Interface fabrics, and -suprise- they showed up via UPS the very next afternoon - less than 24 hours later. That's customer service!

I suppose it worked, however, since I did end up buying Guilford of Maine lol.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #36 of 219 Old 12-14-2007, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Sometimes, it's tough to find and order stuff here in Canada - we just don't have the market, retailers and competition to keep prices low and service great. Many U.S. retailers understandably won't do business up here - and even worse are those that do, but aren't that good at it because of poor choices in shipping, customs brokerage, and so on.

I have to say, however, that this build has been a really pleasant surprise so far! As I stated before, Interface Fabrics was amazing for getting free Guilford samples to me in less than a day (we're easily impressed up here). And kudos to Glasscell for handling my teeny tiny order of exactly one bundle of insulation.

Yet more shout-outs to Fabricmate in CA - I ordered 5 yards of GOM for my screenwall and panels at a very reasonable price, which they managed to get to Canada in less than 72 hours. I ordered it weeks and weeks in advance because I'm used to these things taking forever.

And to A/V Outlet in VA (hey that's funny), who managed to get Da-Lite to drop-ship 40 square feet of High Contrast Cinema Vision to me, again at a very reasonable price, and with free shipping to boot. First time I've ever had a U.S. retailer offer me free shipping to Canada.

Boo hiss to UPS, though, and their outrageous handling fees. A/V Outlet and Da-Lite delivered my screen for free. But UPS Brokerage extorted their usual $70 from me for five seconds to clear it through customs. Sigh.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #37 of 219 Old 12-17-2007, 12:54 PM
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How much was the bundle of insulation? And how do you know it's the same as 703??

PS. what city are you in up here?

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post #38 of 219 Old 12-17-2007, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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OFI-48 is generally considered by the DIY recording studio folks to be sonically very similar to OC703 and thus it's "Canuck equivalent", although their absorption coefficients at the low end are a tiny bit different on the charts.

I'm in Toronto, but OFI is -Ottawa Fibre- lol. I believe Glasscell has a location there. It's less than 50 bucks for a bundle (12x 4 by 2 panels).

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #39 of 219 Old 12-24-2007, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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It took a bit longer than I expected, but all the walls are finally up and taped! What ended up taking the longest was hanging the area around the stairs, which is full of weird angles, small pieces and old construction to bridge. The base coat is setting-type Durabond on fiberglass mesh, so I'm looking forward to switching to regular compound now which goes on a lot easier.






There are a few locations where the original structural beam (four 2x10s bolted together) pokes through the new walls, so I decided to make it a bit of a feature rather than waste precious inches trying to hide it - a good coat of semitransparent stain to complement the wall colors should add some nice architectural interest.

Now that the walls are up and I'm taking a few days off, I also had the opportunity to fire up Photoshop and play around with colors and finishes for a bit.

In doing so, I started debating whether it would be a good idea to ditch the exposed speakers and sacrifice a foot of throw distance to build out a true proscenium wall with the Paradigms behind the GOM, since I already have 5 yards of the stuff sitting around. This would also necessitate building a curve into the stage to allow clearance at the right side for the door.

I'm not thrilled about going back to the drawing board for the screenwall and stage designs, but I am warming to the idea of a truly clean front end.





That's the original photo and my Photoshop matte overlay. I tried and tried to get a clean look with wall-mounted exposed speakers, but of course there's no comparison to a completely hidden setup with a false wall. As a side note, the movie posters probably aren't actually going in that location - they're just to test out a color scheme.

Anyway, time to really take some time off - although I am spending the few days between Christmas and New Year's to really take a chunk out of this project...

Happy holidays!

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!


Last edited by snowkarver; 10-18-2014 at 07:04 PM.
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post #40 of 219 Old 12-24-2007, 04:10 PM
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Looking great so far... it is a world of difference from where you started!
Can't wait to see it develop.

-Cam
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post #41 of 219 Old 12-30-2007, 11:03 PM - Thread Starter
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2 1/2 solid days of progress! I got the second fill coat of mud up before finally losing my mind and taking a break to work on something fun for a change:








Only in the middle of the drywall finishing doldrums would hauling 500 pounds of sand by yourself be considered "fun" - but hey, the stage sounds great! Lots more to say about this little part of the project, but I need to get some sleep now (been framing since 7AM this morning). Just wanted to share these pics - I'm so excited that my HT is finally starting to actually look like one!

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!


Last edited by snowkarver; 10-18-2014 at 07:06 PM.
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post #42 of 219 Old 01-02-2008, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Finishing walls is a horrible mind-numbing business - the end result is definitely worth it, but of all the trades I've tackled so far, this brought me closest to tears and throwing in the towel (a wet, slimy, dusty one at that)

Anyway, they're finally done... one more light sanding and it's time for primer. I have a few messy jobs left like cutting for the built-ins and screenwall panels before the final paint job, but now that the walls and lighting are done, my wife and I took our well-worn Farrow & Ball swatches down to the basement to pick colors.

The rest of the house is painted in F&B which has absolutely amazing depth and texture, but since the basement is a basement and not subject to critical lighting, I think I'll just go with something slightly cheaper color-matched to the F&B palette for consistency. At the moment, we've settled on a warm grey tone called Elephant's Breath for the walls, with a slightly darker shade of Light Grey for the ceiling. This particular color seems to have a similar effect to the infamous Milano Blue in that it appears quite airy when lit, but fades to dark nicely when the lights go down. It will actually be the first time I've ever painted a ceiling anything other than flat white.

Besides that, I had a few hours waiting for the mud in the angles to dry, so I hauled out my one bundle of 1" OFI-48 (the OC703 equivalent) and got the acoustic treatments up in the interior space behind the screenwall:



The OFI-48 is glued to the drywall with spray 3M Super-77, and then tacked on for good measure with 2" drywall screws and finishing washers. All surfaces except the floor are covered, including the interior of the sub recess. Poking out from the panels are the wall parts for three Omnimount speaker mounts (10.0 for the sides, 20.0 for the center). I had to unbox the Paradigms to confirm measurements for this which was a bittersweet moment - I really miss my equipment

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!


Last edited by snowkarver; 10-18-2014 at 07:06 PM.
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post #43 of 219 Old 01-02-2008, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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One unintended consequence of changing the screenwall design (to full proscenium) in mid-construction:

The GOM Anchorage fabric which I previously purchased to cover the OFI-48, with speakers wall-mounted and visible to the room, is no longer suitable now that they are positioned behind the fabric.

Although Anchorage is listed as AT, the weave is much, much tighter than FR701 and to me it pretty much fails the breath test - I can blow through my sweaters and shirts easier than I can through Anchorage. I also did another informal test where I wrapped the little radio I currently use for entertainment in an Anchorage swatch - which just about killed everything above 10khz to my ears. Even with a portable radio, there was a clear muffling of the highs and what little "air" there was in the recording disappeared.

So back to Fabricmate today for three yards of the old standby black FR701.

I guess I'll use the Anchorage for any wall treatment panels I need to add after the main build is finished.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #44 of 219 Old 01-02-2008, 05:02 PM
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!Very nice design!
=( i wish i had read more from this forum before i start building mine, mine doesn't even have a stage built. Mine built like a lounge area =\\ which isn't bad but now i'm like an audiophile, i really wish i had make mine into a dedicated HT room.
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post #45 of 219 Old 01-02-2008, 05:51 PM
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Great work Karver. You are dead on about the anchorage. It is fine for covering treatments, but not acceptable for placing in front of a speaker (per Bpape). Congrats on wrapping up the drywall. It is by far the hardest part on any build.

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post #46 of 219 Old 01-03-2008, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again for the encouragement guys. Drywall was not fun, especially after the satisfaction of getting the tape coat up and seeing the seams disappear into continuous walls. I'm so thankful that part is behind me!

Yellowblanket, my concept actually started as a semi-dedicated HT - a cross between a media room and theater - but the results and ideas on AVS are just so amazing that I kept changing my mind during the process (added the recessed rack, then a damped stage, then a false-wall proscenium with full treatments, then plans for side treatments, etc etc) to the point where I believe my room will now qualify as a dedicated HT when it's done

Gonzo, I was very, very disappointed with the sound through GOM Anchorage. Having been a bit of an audiophile for many years, I'm relatively sensitive to changes in tonality and signature, and one of my hangups about doing the whole false-wall thing was putting my speakers behind a layer of fabric. I hope the FR701 is much better. It should be arriving tomorrow and I can't wait to test it.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #47 of 219 Old 01-03-2008, 05:59 PM
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I am in the planning process of moving my projector into a dedicated theatre, very similar to yours. Mine is about 8.5' x 18' x 8'. I am also in Canada and have a question about your screen wall.

Are you doing an AT screen with the speakers behind it? Or are you using the Da Lite as you mentioned? My screen from the other room will only give me about 8" clearance on either side in the new room, not enough room for the L and R speakers. So I have been looking into hiding them behind the screen.

By the way, it looks great so far!
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post #48 of 219 Old 01-03-2008, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowkarver View Post


I hope the FR701 is much better.

No worries. It will work MUCH better. Night and day difference.

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post #49 of 219 Old 01-03-2008, 08:21 PM
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I love to see what can be accomplished in a small space. A few years ago when AV Interiors Magazine was still around, they featured small theaters. They were quite impressive. I used to have a couple of links to some very small rooms in the UK, but I don't have them anymore.

Keep up the good work and put that projector back in the box. If you don't, you'll stop before you finish

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post #50 of 219 Old 01-03-2008, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:Originally Posted by willise

Are you doing an AT screen with the speakers behind it? Or are you using the Da Lite as you mentioned? My screen from the other room will only give me about 8" clearance on either side in the new room, not enough room for the L and R speakers. So I have been looking into hiding them behind the screen.

By the way, it looks great so far!



Thanks for the props! As the interesting, dedicated HT parts start to kick in, I'm glad to get a good discussion going on the specific challenges of small-space, low headroom theaters in this thread.

I ran into the same issue with screenwall width - because my room is also long relative to wide, I wanted to use at least 7' for the screen, leaving me with only 6" of side clearance, clearly not enough for L/R. I'm also a firm believer in keeping LCR as close together as possible in the vertical plane. Paradigms especially sound best lined up properly as they can be a bit tempermentally directional sometimes.

Which led me to think about an AT screen, but other problems prevented me from going this route.

If you add the depth of the speakers, plus sufficient clearance for rear porting, plus treatments, plus the recommended air space behind the AT screen - you end up wasting well over 2 feet, which was unacceptable to me, as it severely impacts the spaciousness of the room, and brings the screen too close to both the projector location and seating area. Some folks don't mind, but I don't particularly enjoy sitting 8' away from an 84" screen - I much prefer about 35 degrees of viewing angle. My other consideration was that I had already purchased Da-Lite HCCV fabric which is of course non-AT.

The solution I ended up with can clearly be seen in this photo - the speakers will be wall-mounted in the false area immediately underneath the screen (they're not mounted yet obviously):



The front edge of the framing is about 12" out from drywall and will be GOM-on-frame to minimize depth, with the (non AT) screen itself recessed behind the face slightly so that the actual projection surface is only 10" out from the real wall. This maximizes the perceived visual size of the room as well as the available distance for projector throw.

For the lower third, I'm going to build a deeper GOM panel (box) enclosing an additional 4" bumpout beyond the face of the screenwall framing. This 16" is just enough depth for OFI-48 (1"), the Omnimounts (4"), the depth of the Paradigm Atoms (9"), and then an inch or two of air before you hit the fabric. Although they look low, this positioning tight to the bottom of the screen actually puts the tweeters fairly close to ear level (just slightly under) when seated. The Omnimounts can be tilted slightly upward to compensate.

An additional benefit of doing a big, deep detachable panel is that the whole thing can be removed for easy access to the speakers, subwoofer, and pretty much the whole false area without disturbing the screen.

Looking at the finished screenwall, the overall effect should be a very shallow shadowbox with a slightly deeper bottom panel, similar to those used by the big IB subwoofer guys. I believe there are several examples of this in the screenwall thread, and I think it looks quite classy.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!


Last edited by snowkarver; 10-18-2014 at 07:07 PM.
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post #51 of 219 Old 01-04-2008, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hovis View Post

I love to see what can be accomplished in a small space...

Keep up the good work and put that projector back in the box. If you don't, you'll stop before you finish

I've already been warned - the pj is currently out of sight, out of mind!

As an aside, in case you guys were thinking "this doesn't look so cramped", the 17mm lens on my camera makes the space look bigger than it actually is.

For reference, the left speaker in the last picture is a Paradigm Atom - a minimonitor that is 6 1/2" wide. On the right of the stage are several standard-sized cans of spray paint. The recessed lighting looks like 6" cans, but they're actually 4 inchers without trim yet. And the lumber along the wall is standard 4x8 MDF - on its side. Yep, that "taller" sheet is only 4 feet high. That's how tight this space is - hence "The Shire"!

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #52 of 219 Old 01-04-2008, 10:45 AM
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Thanks for the reply on the speaker placement. My speaker are towers, 10'wide by about 3' high. The only way to place them beneath my screen would be to lay them on their side (which I have thought about!! LOL). IT may not be as silly as it sounds to me, I don't know. But there is plenty of room to do it that way!

Looks like I may have to go the AT route.
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post #53 of 219 Old 01-04-2008, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Willise, with 18'x8' you probably have enough depth to go AT, which would also (probably) allow you to get the sub under there as well. This is definitely the preferred route if you haven't purchased a screen already. I can see no other way of accomodating minitowers in this kind of space.

I also really really hope your towers aren't really 10 feet wide.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #54 of 219 Old 01-04-2008, 10:55 AM
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My new goal is to post up pics of my theater by the time you post of yours completed or at least up and running.

We both have similarly small room. I did three rows in mine. A comfy couch with three smallish ottomans in front. The 2nd row is three recliners on the riser, the third is 4 padded, backed, swivel bar stools also on the riser.

My equipment is just under my screen so no stage, my projector is sitting on a shelf I dropped from the cieling, I run it closest it can be with max zoom.

I also built a custom media rack which holds close to 2000 titles and it's in the room as well.
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post #55 of 219 Old 01-04-2008, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowkarver View Post

I also really really hope your towers aren't really 10 feet wide.

That would be just like Marty McFly in Back to the Future!!
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post #56 of 219 Old 01-09-2008, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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More progress over the last weekend.

With the walls just about done, I finally got around to ripping down the MDF sheets for the media shelves and AV rack. Although I have a table saw, it ended up being easier to make a quick ghetto jig on the floor and just go nuts with the circular saw (wearing a respirator, of course). MDF dust is nasty stuff.






The equipment rack was up for construction first. It's approximately 19" wide to fit standard components tightly, 22" deep (20" shelves with a 2" wiring space), and about 30" high with a hinged rear door, adjustable steel pilaster shelf supports, and vent louvers cut into the top and bottom for convection airflow. If I run into heat issues, it would be a relatively simple matter to augment the upper vent with an exhaust fan to draw air through the cabinet.

Routing for the pilasters:




Cutting the vent openings:




The rough opening in the right theater wall before and after the test-fitting:






I took it down after the test and am currently spraying it black - hopefully within the next couple days it will be going back in with its final trim.

Speaking of which, I made a big HD run last night to pick up most of the mouldings for the basement - 4" LDF colonial baseboards and a variety of finger-jointed casings which came in a nice variety of smaller sizes. With the tiny dimensions of the space, it's pretty neat how the most delicate 2"x3/8moulding can look beefy and grand.


Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #57 of 219 Old 01-09-2008, 10:00 AM
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Keep em rolling.... Your getting close to the home stretch here.....

I am axious to see the pics you get. I am having a heck of a time getting pics of my similarly sized room. It ends up looking like one chair, or just the screen, or just the equipment, ect..ect...ect...
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post #58 of 219 Old 01-09-2008, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks John!

I have a Nikon D50 with a wide-angle zoom that goes out to 17mm. Before I got my SLR, I used a point-and-shoot (Canon S50) and had the exact same issue as you. The reality is that you're going to need a focal length of <20mm to get anything approaching a decent view of these small rooms. Most compact cameras bottom out at around 35mm (film equivalent)

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #59 of 219 Old 01-09-2008, 10:14 AM
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I think that is the issue. My wife is the photo bug, but I don't think I can gain anymore field of fiew with it. The reducer she has will not focus at close distance, only vista's and such.
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post #60 of 219 Old 01-09-2008, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

I submit as evidence the fact that I'm on my 4th projector bulb and my Room isn't complete.

Thats not so bad. I had to get a new PROJECTOR by the time I finished (of course, I'm still not finished)
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