16' wide screen theater w/ 20+ seats and starfield ceiling and stadium configuration - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 398 Old 06-26-2009, 02:20 PM
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Hey Calbear, the Meet at Ob's house just got a free seat. i opted out of his.

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post #332 of 398 Old 06-27-2009, 07:18 AM
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I will be in Myrtle Beach with the family. Please take lots of pictures for us. You have one of the coolest theaters on the forum IMO.

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post #333 of 398 Old 06-28-2009, 10:25 PM
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Thanks for the wonderful time at your house, CalBear!

Nice meeting everyone tooo.

Btw, that screen and picture out of it is incredible, wouldn't have thought, pics would come off from just the JVC projector.

Well done!
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post #334 of 398 Old 06-28-2009, 10:52 PM
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Agreed. With a 16ft wide 2.35 image the brightness and contrast was at times a tad too strong. The color and brightness uniformity and black levels that some speculated would not be doable in this configuration was not to be the case at all!

Overall a great experience for me as now I really want ot upgrade my lowly XGA to at least a 720p (budget constraints, you know). Lots of cool equipment and a 16ft wide windows menu screen was too awesome!

Thanks again for the demo calbear and hope to see your next theater demo soon.

Victor

PS Upgrade the a/c LOL

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post #335 of 398 Old 06-29-2009, 09:26 AM
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All in all an excellent room in a gorgeous house.

THe DIY screen has a gain (as near as i can estimate) in the 3-4 range. so he gets plenty of pop. having said that, the proj does need a bit of a calibration, so that may drop things a bit yet.

In my opinion, it appeared that the proj/screen combo was definitely working a little harder than a proj of more appropriate brightness and a much lower gain screen. however, all in all, it was a very acceptable image. lots of pop. plenty of white.

demo content was dark knight (scene where motorcycle takes off and 18 wheeler is flipped) I am legend, (closing scenes) and opening of troy. i would be VERY happy having this image in my house.

And when you balance that image with a theatre that was fantastic... just awesome.

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post #336 of 398 Old 06-29-2009, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzman View Post

THe DIY screen has a gain (as near as i can estimate) in the 3-4 range.

Wow... that's really awesome. Any hotspotting? Was the viewing cone small? In other words, what were the typical high-gain screen disadvantages like? The particulars of how this screen was done would be of interest to DIY screen builders!
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post #337 of 398 Old 06-29-2009, 11:41 AM
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there wa s alittle hotspotting, but overall it was quite even. there was the typical fall off, however with a screen that large (for all intents and purposes, it is as wide as the room), the only way to get in an area with significant fall off was to sit on top of the sub boxes on the immediate stage left or right area.

IE, not likely.

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post #338 of 398 Old 06-29-2009, 02:59 PM
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Wow, I missed this! Btw, this MaximusNSX from Prime!
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post #339 of 398 Old 07-01-2009, 04:09 AM
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First off, a resounding "Thank You" to Calbear and his Wife for offering up their Home to a rather large crowd of avid HT Enthusiasts. We all trooped into and through their lovely Home, and were met with a most courteous welcome.

After meeting up at the appointed location, the veritable "Road Train" of vehicles gave the Gateman at the Sub Division a start, or at least I did...bringing up the rear.

But the biggest surprise lay in store for all of us as we first entered into the magnificent Theater.............

After almost 2 years absence after having painted the 16' x9' er S-I-L-V-E-R HG Screen, I was not prepared to see this......;



The Room was illuminated at the maximum level (...not too subtle but pleasingly comfortable...). Two downward firing "Spots" at each front corner of the Side Trays did splash directed light onto the bottom half corners of the screen, but all in all, I think I speak for most everyone in attendance when I say none of us...myself included...expected to see the Screen performing as well as it did above in such lighting.

I made a concerted effort to take Photos that accurately represent the room's lighting conditions, and the Screen's appearance as well all saw with our own Orbs. Only 2 Auto ISO Modes were used...200 & 800, dependent on the lighting levels and/or on-screen content. Black scenes were still a bit washed at the edges when the Spots that were positioned directly over the corners of the Screen were on...which was almost 90% of the time I was taking photos. But even so, when vivid content was up, the Screen presented an image not just watchable in ambient light, but actually stunningly so. It's been said before, but bears repeating;

A 16' x 9' Screen splashed w/a 700 Lumen* PJ shooting from a 27' throw onto a painted Drywall surface..................wow.
*Can't say fur shur but I'm betting Calbear has put at least some wear on the Bulb too. I KNOW I would have!
It was ventured by one of the attendees that the Screen must have a gain of 3.0-4.0 to perform as it was....and by yet another licensed "A/V Pro" in attendance that it (the Screen) should have been decidedly limited in viewing cone...which it wasn't, and not nearly as uniform in reflecting light across the vast screen acreage...which it was anyway. He came expecting the worst...and left...well, not really knowing what to think! But he's coming back...with a Photometer, to take accurate Gain measurements, if for no other reason to be able to stop scratching his head in wonder and amazement.



There were plenty of critical eyes there to attest to what was being viewed, and to all of them I bow to their opinions as to if the images I'm posting reflect a true and accurate approximation of what we all experienced.

Before anything else goes up, here are two Auto 800 & 200 ISO shots of the Theater in "Hand Stitched" Panoramic mode.





Everyone's memory should validate the wall / room's color, and how the "Panel Spots" between the Columns looked on the Red Velvet Cloth inserts, and such.

This shot shows how much the downward firing Spots affected the bottom corners of the Screen when they were "full on" and a dark image was on screen. (...coyly edited for prudish eyes )



When the Spots were turned down to create a barely noticeable perception of illumination, the end result on the Screen were some excellent Black levels. The Silver Metallic can lay claim to that end result. Silver metallic works both ways...to enhance reflectivity and depth of Color, and deepen Black Levels without crushing Whites

Almost completely Dark...........



Estimated 20% illumination...Calbear obliged me on this one by reducing those obnoxious over-ther Corner Spots.



Excellent "Darkroom" results!














At a very low but present Can Light luminance, no perceptible ambient light issues here!



OK...so much for the Screen, eh?

The Sound was very intense, but the Acoustical Trappings did their job quite well. The GUI / PC Screen for the HTPC Unit was absolutely brilliant! So very Cool!



Here is a Group Shot, with faces "high lighted" as best as I could with the meager tools and skill at hand.



A worthy effort? Hmmmmmmm..........

It was worth waiting for Calbear to "get'er dun". (...and Him not even "Loganed' either!) Worth the jaunt up from LA. Worth the drive back to SFO Airport at 1 AM and waiting for a 6 AM Flight back to LAX to catch my 11:30 am flight to Memphis. Definitely worth the opportunity to commune with some of my fellow AVS'ers.

.......just plain worth it......

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"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #340 of 398 Old 07-01-2009, 05:12 AM
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That is absolutely INSANE! Great job Cal and Mississippi on that screen! WOW!!!

Ryan
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post #341 of 398 Old 07-02-2009, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calbear View Post

4. The ceiling is actually drywall with smoothed out plaster, and painted with the flattest darkest black paint I could find.

Got a make on that paint? Its interesting, many of the star ceilings are done with fabric or velvet.

Dave

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post #342 of 398 Old 07-02-2009, 04:52 PM
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i would argue that the light fall off was there, but due to the width of the room, it was very difficult to get that far off axis, so in this case, it is a non issue.

you cant have the gain without the falloff.

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post #343 of 398 Old 07-02-2009, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzman View Post

There was the typical fall off, however with a screen that large (for all intents and purposes, it is as wide as the room), the only way to get in an area with significant fall off was to sit on top of the sub boxes on the immediate stage left or right area.

IE, not likely.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzman View Post

i would argue that the light fall off was there, but due to the width of the room, it was very difficult to get that far off axis, so in this case, it is a non issue.

you cant have the gain without the falloff.

Taking both of the above into account, and the somewhat apparent angle as relates to the location of the Sub Boxes to the Screen Wall, could one surmise that such "significant fall off" at each of the ascribed areas would have been first noticeable at 75 degrees axis? Not 35 or 45 or 60?

That itself would be unusual for a Screen of 2.5 to 2.8 gain, let alone anything that might be higher.

Certainly there will be some degree of loss if there is a preponderance of reflected light directed straight back.

But as "seen" it was apparent that there was a lot less "Fall Off" at a pretty high angle of viewing incident than would otherwise be observed under similar circumstances with a similar Gain Screen.

Pretty crazy stuff, but explainable because of the composition of the S-I-L-V-E-R HG Mix. Proportionately speaking, there is a LOT more Glaze in the Screen surface make-up than Silver Metallic. It is the successive build up of multiple thin "Duster Coats" that gradually build up the amount of Silver Metallic Flake that are arranged at a parallel angle to the Projected Beam. It is not a situation where the entire leading surface area is completely opaque with such parallel reflective surfaces. That would result in a "Mirror-like" tendency to reflect too much light directly backwards.

But there are also a myriad of other Silver Metallic Flakes, arranged at many varied angles, dispersed reflected light within what is a decidedly translucent medium, made thicker than normal by virtue of the multiple layering. (Think a Deep Metallic Car Finish) This reflection / refraction combination generates more light in every direction than would otherwise happen with a flat, static mix that has it's reflectivity determined by the virtue of the positioning of the Metallic flacks in a flat, overlapping densly packed surface.

More plainly put, a degree more...appreciably so....of reflected light is being dispersed in directions other than straight back, and all aspects of light dispersion are assisted by the enhanced absorption / re-direction that the Translucent Faux Glaze medium affords the known performance values of reflective metallics.

That this S-I-L-V-E-R indeed has more of a "viewing cone loss" (albeit a small loss) due to it's have a extra percentage of Silver Metallic Flacks per mix volume is no stretch to accept. It's more the "Why does it look better than it should?" coupled with "It shouldn't be doing that" thatare the remaining questions. I just delivered my "take" and have provided visual a approximation to judge by.

Further Commentary?

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post #344 of 398 Old 07-06-2009, 11:15 AM
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you cannot have gain without the falloff.

falloff will either be more even, but consistent, or dramatically fall off as you get farther to the edges.

i feel pretty sure that in this case the falloff is the former. however as i said, it is a moot point due to the fact that the screen is as wide as the room, so getting to a place where there is a noticeable drop in brightness requires moving to an unnatural location.

trying to postulate on why/what/how etc, is impossible without some instrumentation to tell us what the falloff is. and in this case really not required. it is a great screen in a great room.

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post #345 of 398 Old 07-06-2009, 11:32 AM
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I don't like it, you guys need to scrap it all and do it again..

Amazing looking results, looks like a blast!

I am such a NOOB at A/V..

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post #346 of 398 Old 10-27-2009, 12:56 AM
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Hello, You sir got an amazing theater. wow I see very few pictures of the theater but the ones that we get to see are jaw dropping. Can we please see a video of your room in action on youtube please please. I just came upon this thread today If only I knew back then I would have asked for an invite. AVS Forum members should start making videos of their rooms on youtube these theaters are spectacular. WOW
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post #347 of 398 Old 04-01-2010, 09:58 AM
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Enjoyed reading this thread very much- looks good OP

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #348 of 398 Old 04-01-2010, 03:11 PM
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Remarkable result... One of the best on AVS... Beautiful room and home for that matter... Thanks for sharing your experience and thanks for inspiring many here... There are many key elements I will be mimicking in my next theater. Couple of questions:

1. How did the speaker and receiver set up work out? It was discussed a lot that you would need seperate amps, but I didn't see that followed up...

2. Where are your front speakers? Above the screen or below?

3. Are you still using the JVC projector?

4. What, if anything, would you do differently if you had to do it again?
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post #349 of 398 Old 04-01-2010, 03:27 PM
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I am blown away- this is one of the best I have seen.

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #350 of 398 Old 04-02-2010, 02:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi All,
I just saw that a few of you commented yesterday after months of this thread being dormant. I will be happy to come back this weekend to fully respond to some of the comments from now and as far back as summer of 2009, as it is way too late in the night right now to write up coherent and thoughtful responses.
I apologize for not getting back to some of you sooner. I have some updated pictures which I should post.

It's been a wicked busy year, as I have been preparing to release our wine label to the public, which we will do in about a month or so. If anyone is a wine enthusiast, or interested in wine, please let me know and we can chat about all things vino.

Thanks.

My theater construction thread labeled "16' wide screen theater w/ 20+ seats and starfield ceiling and stadium configuration":
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post #351 of 398 Old 04-02-2010, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calbear View Post

It's been a wicked busy year, as I have been preparing to release our wine label to the public, which we will do in about a month or so. If anyone is a wine enthusiast, or interested in wine, please let me know and we can chat about all things vino.

You called? Don't have a lot of budget, but I love a good Zin, Cab, Syrah, or desert wine. What are you releasing?
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post #352 of 398 Old 04-02-2010, 05:22 PM
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Awesome theater! All you need now is to add a curved acoustically transparent scope screen and a brighter projector and you'd have virtual perfection. Having three identical front speakers locked to the action on the screen is what it's all about.

There has been talk of the Screen Excellence EN4K weaved screen material designed for 4k resolution projection. I think SMX is working on a 4k ready material as well.

FYI.

And hopefully you're not selling f--king Merlot!!

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #353 of 398 Old 04-02-2010, 08:48 PM
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Nice theater..BUT I have one question. WHy is the front stage so tall?
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post #354 of 398 Old 04-02-2010, 09:24 PM
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I thought you were getting bigger digs?

Victor

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post #355 of 398 Old 04-02-2010, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Awesome theater! All you need now is to add a curved acoustically transparent scope screen and a brighter projector and you'd have virtual perfection. Having three identical front speakers locked to the action on the screen is what it's all about.

Since I was intimately involved with the Screen build itself, I'll pipe in on this. At 16' x 9', both issues with the needed Gain as well as simply the availability of seamless AT material at that size caused calbear to look beyond the AT venue. AT material has a very hard time being "high Gain" beyond the normally excellent specifications that SMX's product achieves. The amount of gain it would have provided would have fallen far short of the needed goal.

Add to all that a decided lusting by the OP after the JVC's image quality and Black levels, and his decision to go "DIY" in this instance was based on some pretty careful consideration. I'm pretty sure most will agree the end result achieved measured up to the job at hand.

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post #356 of 398 Old 04-04-2010, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm sorry this comes so late, but thank you Bay Area members for attending the meet at my home. It was a pleasure to have met you all.
I'm thinking about holding another meet with a theme about movies and wine in the very near future. This will be a pseudo-launch party to celebrate our wine business. When I can finalize the details, I'll create a new thread in the regional section.

I'd like to get this event scheduled sooner rather than later, as we decided a while ago to sell our home, and who knows if we will still own the home and theater. If you are interested, or know of anyone interested, please PM me, and I'll be happy to provide a generous finder's fee should we sell to you or your referral.

My theater construction thread labeled "16' wide screen theater w/ 20+ seats and starfield ceiling and stadium configuration":
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post #357 of 398 Old 04-04-2010, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks MMan for the pics! It's great of you to share memories of the event.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus330I View Post

Wow, I missed this! Btw, this MaximusNSX from Prime!

Hi Maximus330I!
Sorry that you missed the event. Keep in touch and hopefully you can visit soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_pilgrim View Post

Got a make on that paint? Its interesting, many of the star ceilings are done with fabric or velvet.

Hi dc_pilgrim,
I believe I purchased it from Home Depot. It was from Behr, of the Disney Color line. Mouse Ears DC4B-10-5 (what a coincidence that it would have the letters "dc" like your handle). I chose FLAT to minimize reflections.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Staffy View Post

I don't like it, you guys need to scrap it all and do it again..

Amazing looking results, looks like a blast!

Thanks Staffy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovemyht View Post

Hello, You sir got an amazing theater. wow I see very few pictures of the theater but the ones that we get to see are jaw dropping. Can we please see a video of your room in action on youtube please please. I just came upon this thread today If only I knew back then I would have asked for an invite. AVS Forum members should start making videos of their rooms on youtube these theaters are spectacular. WOW

Hi Ilovemyht,
I would like to put up a video, but have been having trouble transferring HD video from my Canon HV20 miniDV to my Sony Vegas program. I should just purchase one of those cheap handheld videocams that record directly to mpg or avi and call it a day. Let me see what I can do and I'll provide the link if I upload it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Enjoyed reading this thread very much- looks good OP.

I am blown away- this is one of the best I have seen.

Thanks Mfusick for reading about the build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd_zilla View Post

Remarkable result... One of the best on AVS... Beautiful room and home for that matter... Thanks for sharing your experience and thanks for inspiring many here... There are many key elements I will be mimicking in my next theater. Couple of questions:

1. How did the speaker and receiver set up work out? It was discussed a lot that you would need seperate amps, but I didn't see that followed up...

2. Where are your front speakers? Above the screen or below?

3. Are you still using the JVC projector?

4. What, if anything, would you do differently if you had to do it again?

Hi Todd_zilla,
I'm glad that you are able to take some elements and incorporate it into your build. Good luck with it and let me know if you have any questions along the way regarding the things I did.

1. The Klipsch are incredible. They are so efficient, and fill the room the incredible sound. Having done the acoustics, it really makes a difference, as I have attended some open houses in my community, and these homes which have home theaters, but just drywall without any acoustic treatments have sound which distract from the movie experience. I feel the Onkyo TX-NR906 has been sufficient to power the THX Ultra2's, for when I put it to "0" reference volume, at times I feel it is too loud.

2. The left and right front speakers are hidden in the columns immediately flanking the screen. They are placed at angles about four feet from the top of the stage and angled down so that they target the money seats. The center speaker is hidden in the top soffit just above the center of the screen. It too is angled downwards to aim at the money seats. I have acoustically transparent fabric in all of the places where the speakers are, so there should theoretically be no distortion.

3. I am still using the JVC projector, as I have not seen a need to change it for now. I am still very pleased with it, and haven't put enough hours to warrant a bulb replacement for now. When playing Blu-ray and HD DVD, it's just incredible how the images look, and I still haven't found it to be dim.
Even with the use of the HTPC and playing DVDs with them being upconverted using the Onkyo's built in Reon video processor, I have found the movies to not be horrible-looking. They are probably 70-80% of what the Blu-ray movies are, depending on the transfer.

4. This question would require a thread in itself to answer it fully! Let me see if I can respond to this in a separate comment shortly.


I also have new professional photographs to upload, so I'll post them shortly. They were taken of the theater and the rest of the house by Domus Magazine and another separate photographer, so fair warning for those who may find photos outside of the theater offensive (no car pictures, I promise).

My theater construction thread labeled "16' wide screen theater w/ 20+ seats and starfield ceiling and stadium configuration":
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post #358 of 398 Old 04-04-2010, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scientest View Post

You called? Don't have a lot of budget, but I love a good Zin, Cab, Syrah, or desert wine. What are you releasing?

Hi scientest,
Haha. I am glad you saw the announcement. We will be initially releasing our 2007 wines with two varietals and possibly some blends. We have Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot. We will be releasing our 2008 wines later this year, and we will have the 2009 wines ready about a year from now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Awesome theater! All you need now is to add a curved acoustically transparent scope screen and a brighter projector and you'd have virtual perfection. Having three identical front speakers locked to the action on the screen is what it's all about.

There has been talk of the Screen Excellence EN4K weaved screen material designed for 4k resolution projection. I think SMX is working on a 4k ready material as well.

FYI.

And hopefully you're not selling f--king Merlot!!

Thanks for the info Dan. I can see that MMan responded, and his response is along my train of thought, but I appreciate your thoughtful comment.

As for Merlot, I did enjoy the movie Sideways, although after that release, the price of Merlot on the open market did plummet somewhat. Damn screenwriter for affecting my business that way! From what I was told, he needed to pick on a varietal, and I think he just randomly chose Merlot (it is known for it's softness, and therefore makes it ideal for introducing reds to new red-wine drinkers, so perhaps that's why he targeted it). Why couldn't he have chosen something more obscure, such as Tempranillo or Mourvedre? The masses hear that line, and automatically think that Merlot is awful. Good grief.
However, I know that you are just joking since we are talking about movies and wine in a HT forum, so those words above were not directed at you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mikieson View Post

Nice theater..BUT I have one question. WHy is the front stage so tall?

We had so much room up front, and we wanted to have a stage in which our daughter and others could perform (it's used for karoake and Rock Band/Guitar Hero events), so we needed it elevated to ensure everyone sitting down can see the performers. Is there something wrong with it being tall? I thought most people would desire a tall stage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by victor-eyd View Post

I thought you were getting bigger digs?

Victor

Hi Victor,
I think you are referring to the vineyard estate plans I showed you and the others at the meet. We do have our home on the market, so that is something we are considering for the future. That's why I would like to hold another meet to enjoy the theater with enthusiasts before I no longer own it.

My theater construction thread labeled "16' wide screen theater w/ 20+ seats and starfield ceiling and stadium configuration":
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post #359 of 398 Old 04-04-2010, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calbear View Post

Hi scientest,
Haha. I am glad you saw the announcement. We will be initially releasing our 2007 wines with two varietals and possibly some blends. We have Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot. We will be releasing our 2008 wines later this year, and we will have the 2009 wines ready about a year from now.


Well, if you had the same luck with 07 Cabs that many people did in CA that would be verrrry interesting.... Any idea what kind of distribution you get?

Edit: and if you happen to source some Syrah you could always do a Cab Syrah Merlot blend?
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post #360 of 398 Old 04-05-2010, 02:26 AM
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jaws drop, walks away gob smacked, thinking this is the way a cinema should be done in the home..

congrats on the build I'd say it is 1 of the best ht's i've seen in a while...
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