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post #91 of 244 Old 03-30-2008, 02:07 PM
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here it is folks, I did it I guess a month ago

http://restricted.dyndns.org/showme/rack/

...have fun
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post #92 of 244 Old 03-30-2008, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifeliciano View Post

Yikes $39 for the brackets. Hell the darn slides were expensive enough. The should come with both brackets free.

Also, many of the mounting options they show want two pairs of brackets. One attaching the slide to the floor or wall, one attaching the slide to the drawer or shelf. $70 for two pairs of brackets, $130 for slides.

I'm likely going to bolt the slides to 2x4s: one fixed 2x4 on the floor, one attached to the bottom of the rack. The slides have enough clearance for a pretty good bolt. The 2x4's should be just fine under compression. My only concern would be upward pressure on the back bolt on the fixed 2x4 when the fully loaded rack is pulled forward. I'll probably just use a bit of steel on top of the 2x4 back there with lag bolts through the steel plate into the floor.

Paul Meyer
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post #93 of 244 Old 04-04-2008, 06:51 PM
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Anybody have a recommended 'best spacing' from the front rack rails to the back? I'm thinking of matching the spacing on a 26" slim5 rack. I've looked at the middle atlantic engineering drawings, but they don't seem to show the spacing I need. It'll clearly be ~26", but is that from the front of the front rail to the back of the back rail? Or from the inside's of the front to the inside of the back?

I see lots of specs for standard width on racks, but little on standard depth for full shelves with back support.

I'm being paranoid because I don't want to buy a 26" rack shelf and find it's 1/8" too large to fit my rack, or the screw holes are off by a quarter inch.

Paul

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post #94 of 244 Old 04-06-2008, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmeyer View Post

I'm being paranoid because I don't want to buy a 26" rack shelf and find it's 1/8" too large to fit my rack, or the screw holes are off by a quarter inch.

The easy solution is to get adjustable-depth cabinet shelves with telescoping rear brackets:



Also keep in mind that unless you're dealing with equipment over 60 pounds or need the extra depth, most of your shelves will probably only have front mounting brackets. The rear rails can still be handy in those cases for mounting cable management accessories, patch panels, lights, and other shallow equipment that doesn't need to be accessible from the theater itself.
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post #95 of 244 Old 04-06-2008, 09:26 AM
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this is a quasi rack question, so I'm going to add it to this thread.

I'm in the midst of my DIY and have a problem I'd like some opinions on. I have a power wire running through the wall in the area I'm installing the rack. Unfortunate, but I think I can work around here.

Well, I'm working on the spacing of my shelves so I can get all the RSH faceplates to line up correctly and the wire is throwing a kink into that. I have everything fit in above the wire except my pre-amp (an Emo MMC-1) and don't have enough space to entirely fit the MMC-1 and shelf in above the wire. Here are some pic's of the situation:





The spacing works out so that I think I would be able to fit everything and have the faceplates match up if I put the shelf in such a position that the power wire sits on top of the shelf and runs just underneath the front of the MMC-1. This gives me some heebie-jeebies, though, and wanted to see what you folks thought before I even attempted it. Otherwise, I'm going to have to use a lot of blanks to cover all that space up.
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post #96 of 244 Old 04-06-2008, 10:07 AM
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Either you or an electrician can re-route the cable to clear the area.
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post #97 of 244 Old 04-06-2008, 10:11 AM
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well, yeah, but I'm trying to avoid that. Don't want to pay the electrician and I've never done anything like that. The wire runs to an outlet about 3 feet to the right of the rack and runs out of sight in the other direction. There isn't any slack.

Could I do something as simple as taking the existing wire and splicing it to some excess wire in order to get it out of the way? What would I use to splice the two wires together?
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post #98 of 244 Old 04-06-2008, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clevername View Post

well, yeah, but I'm trying to avoid that. Don't want to pay the electrician and I've never done anything like that. The wire runs to an outlet about 3 feet to the right of the rack and runs out of sight in the other direction. There isn't any slack.

Could I do something as simple as taking the existing wire and splicing it to some excess wire in order to get it out of the way? What would I use to splice the two wires together?

I am not an electrician but I think just splicing the wires together is a BAD IDEA without using some type of junction box. I would think leaving spliced wires in the wall would not be the best idea.

I have no idea if it meets code requirements but I have seen those metal junction boxes used in this way where wires need to be rerouted and the connections are terminated in these boxes.

Maybe someone here with electrical experience could chime in and provide additional guidance but just on the record splicing the wires in the wall is a bad idea.

Regards,

RTROSE


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post #99 of 244 Old 04-06-2008, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clevername View Post

well, yeah, but I'm trying to avoid that. Don't want to pay the electrician and I've never done anything like that. The wire runs to an outlet about 3 feet to the right of the rack and runs out of sight in the other direction. There isn't any slack.

Could I do something as simple as taking the existing wire and splicing it to some excess wire in order to get it out of the way? What would I use to splice the two wires together?

Yes, you can. That's what an electrician would do. The only trick: each of the 'splices' needs to be inside a junction box, and that junction box needs to be accessible. Since it looks like the attic back there is accessible, that isn't a problem. You can just attach junction boxes to the studs out in the attic. If you follow a few rules, you'll meet code. The rules make sense as well, they aren't arbitrary. You want to do it right.

This really is NOT hard to do. You can do this if you are doing any other DIY like building that rack. (Disclaimer: I only play an electrician on TV)

what you need:

- two plastic junction boxes (you can get metal, but then get 4 romex clamps that fit the knockouts in the boxes)
- a few (6) wire nuts. Check the sizes to make sure they will handle two 12 gauge or 14 gauge wires.
- Romex wire of the same gauge as what is there now (read it off the casing). You need a ground and 2 conductors. It'll likely be 12/2 or 14/2. If you aren't sure, look at the breaker size. If it's 20 amp, use 12/2. If it's 15 amp, use 14/2.
- insulated romex staples (they'll be in electrical supplies)
- electrical tape (optional)

Quick summary:

- find the circuit breaker for that wire. Turn it off. Double/triple check that there is no power in that line (you can check it at the outlet if you are 100% sure it goes to that outlet). Even when you are sure, make your first cut of the cable with wire cutters with insulated handles. If there is power, you'll blow the circuit rather than zapping yourself.

- screw/nail a junction box to a stud on each side of your opening, or maybe one stud over.

- cut the wire on one side, making sure the wire still reaches the box on that side with 3-6" to spare. Put the wire into the box (through clamps if metal box). Do the same on the other side of the opening.

- cut new romex and run it up/over the opening and into each box.

- strip back the outer sheathes, strip back the insulation on each wire (read the wire-nut packaging for how far). Pair up the wires (black/black, white/white, ground/ground). Get the ends to line up on a pair. Use pliers to pre-twist them a bit if it helps. Apply wire nut, screw it on. Screw it until the wire pair twists around itself a few times. Make sure the connection is firm and you can't pull out either wire. I then wrap with a bit of electrical tape, but you don't really need to. Repeat for all three wires in each box (including the bare copper).

- hammer the wire staples to secure the romex to studs. You need a wire staple on each cable within a foot of each junction box. Add one every couple of feet on the cable over the opening.

- Fold the wires carefully into the j-boxes. Attach the cover plate. Test the circuit.

Paul Meyer
Bee Cave (Austin), TX


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post #100 of 244 Old 04-06-2008, 10:48 AM
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well, that definitely seems doable. I hadn't even thought of adding a junction box on the other side (it's actually the space underneath my stairs) and I'd actually feel relatively comfortable handling that. I've done some wire work (hooking and unhooking up outlets/changing outlets out, and speaker wire of course) so it's not completely foreign to me. I just want to do it right/safely and the junction box method makes me feel much more comfortable than just splicing a wire into the path as is.
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post #101 of 244 Old 04-06-2008, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

I am not an electrician but I think just splicing the wires together is a BAD IDEA without using some type of junction box. I would think leaving spliced wires in the wall would not be the best idea.

Yes. Bad idea and violates code. Romex itself is pretty safe, but anywhere that there is a wire splice is a potential danger point for sparking, overheating, and starting a fire.

To protect splices, code does a few things (my take, grain of salt time)
- splices must be in junction boxes (essentially, protected boxes where a bit of heat or sparks won't start a fire)
- The splices must be well done (hence code requirements on the wire nuts and connections, essentially looking for secure/protected connections)
- the wire must be secured so that if somebody trips over it it doesn't pull the junction out of the junction box and defeat all of the above. Hence the staples and/or wire clamps for metal boxes.
- junction boxes MUST be accessible. This way if there is a problem later, somebody can come fix it, or check the junctions. You can't drywall over a junction box.

Paul Meyer
Bee Cave (Austin), TX


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post #102 of 244 Old 04-06-2008, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clevername View Post

well, that definitely seems doable. I hadn't even thought of adding a junction box on the other side (it's actually the space underneath my stairs) and I'd actually feel relatively comfortable handling that. I've done some wire work (hooking and unhooking up outlets/changing outlets out, and speaker wire of course) so it's not completely foreign to me. I just want to do it right/safely and the junction box method makes me feel much more comfortable than just splicing a wire into the path as is.

If you have done all of that, you are set. It'll take you more time to get the supplies than it will to reroute the wire.

Good luck!

Paul Meyer
Bee Cave (Austin), TX


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post #103 of 244 Old 04-06-2008, 11:08 AM
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(Whoops, posted before I was done typing. Post coming)

Back to my DIY rack progress. Here is a sketchup of my current plan. This shows the rack 26" deep with solid sides. I'm leaning towards a bit shallower (~20) and I'm still debating on solid plywood sides or just angle bracing.



I've been mostly concentrating on the bottom sled detail. I'm going to use a pair of 2x4's lag bolted into the floor as my base. The accuride 9301 slides (1" thick, 3" tall when side mounted) will ride between that base 2x4 and the 2x4 mounted to the bottom of the sled. The sled will be 20"x20" 3/4" plywood with a 2x4 along each edge and a couple of cross 2x4's.

On top of that sled will be the 12" lazy susan (only ~1/4" thick). The rack will mount on that.

The hardest part (and most unexpected to me) is trying to figure out how to get it all put together. For the slides and the lazy susan, all the bolts are hidden when it's assembled.

Look at the picture above. The lazy susan is in the 3/8" slot between the sled and the rack. The heads of the bolts live in the lazy susan and the bolts go up and down into the sled and rack. To get it to work, I have to pre-drill the holes in the bottom of the rack to match the lazy susan, then attach the lazy susan to the sled. I've then got to drill a 1/2" hole in the bottom of the sled that lines up with a hole in the lazy susan. I can then slide a bolt up through that hole through the sled and lazy susan and into the rack base. Rotate and repeat.

It sounds easy now that I describe it, but trying to picture it all in my head and make sure it will all work has taken some work.

Paul Meyer
Bee Cave (Austin), TX


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post #104 of 244 Old 04-06-2008, 11:11 AM
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Im glad ya'll chimed in. Junction boxes, wire nuts, romex in required gauge, etc...
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post #105 of 244 Old 04-06-2008, 07:31 PM
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Look at the picture above. The lazy susan is in the 3/8" slot between the sled and the rack. The heads of the bolts live in the lazy susan and the bolts go up and down into the sled and rack. To get it to work, I have to pre-drill the holes in the bottom of the rack to match the lazy susan, then attach the lazy susan to the sled. I've then got to drill a 1/2" hole in the bottom of the sled that lines up with a hole in the lazy susan. I can then slide a bolt up through that hole through the sled and lazy susan and into the rack base. Rotate and repeat.

It sounds easy now that I describe it, but trying to picture it all in my head and make sure it will all work has taken some work.[/quote]


it sounds like you know what you're doing, the lazy susan should come with good directions (as should the drawer slided) to aid you if you are still uncertain.
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post #106 of 244 Old 04-06-2008, 07:49 PM
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Do you guys see any issue with mounting a 19" knockdown rack in a 22 1/2" finished opening? I was thinking I could just screw some wood supports into the drywall (and into the studs behind) to close the gap, followed by some trim around the front edge to hide the exposed wood.

Thoughts?

Jason


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post #107 of 244 Old 04-07-2008, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mn_hokie View Post

Do you guys see any issue with mounting a 19" knockdown rack in a 22 1/2" finished opening? I was thinking I could just screw some wood supports into the drywall (and into the studs behind) to close the gap, followed by some trim around the front edge to hide the exposed wood.

Thoughts?

I wouldn't think there would be a problem. What kind of rack? The middle atlantic slim5 is 19 1/8" wide, leaving 1 11/16" gap on each side. Unless the rack needs the strength, I wouldn't even put wood supports in. Just cover the 1" gap with trim and you are good to go.

Paul Meyer
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post #108 of 244 Old 04-07-2008, 06:31 AM
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Paul,

I was looking at one of the Middle Atlantic knockdown racks. I'm having my EQ closet finished off with drywall, so I guess I was more concerned about the finished look. Even having to screw a few pieces of wood into the studs on both sides to provide a snug fit shouldn't be a problem. I had the area framed out much higher than a rack just to be safe, as I wasn't sure what I'd be doing. I'm thinking once the rack is installed, I can add some type of cabinet (or just drywall) over the open area above the rack.

Jason


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post #109 of 244 Old 04-07-2008, 08:10 AM
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I had the guys add a double layer of drywall on one side of the rack. I could afford it there but with all of my boxes places on the opposite side, i I had to stick with a single layer there. That should buy me an additional 1/2", so I'm thinking the finished area will be around 22" now. Considering that the rack is 19 1/8", that gives me 1 7/16" of play on each side. Hey, every little bit counts

Jason


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post #110 of 244 Old 04-07-2008, 10:05 AM
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You should have no problems. I think the only question is: do you need any wood pieces in there. If the rack is going to be permanently mounted, a few pieces of trim nailed to the wall around the rack will do the job. You can line them up flush with the edge of your rack. Behind the first 1.5" of trim will be air space, but no big deal.

If the front of your rack will be open and you are concerned about how the inside sides of the rack will look, attach some thin plywood to the side of the racks before you slide it in. Might be easier than attaching it to the walls.

One thing that will help: explain why you wanted the few pieces of wood. Are you concerned about the rack shifting, or looking at aesthetics? If you are looking at structural support, just cut eight narrow strips of 3/4" plywood about 20" long. Double them up for 1.5" thickness. Place one each at top/bottom left/right. Let the bottom ones just lie there. Screw through the top ones into the studs.

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post #111 of 244 Old 04-07-2008, 10:08 AM
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I ordered to 2u blank front plates (thick ones, 1/8" steel, black brushed anodized). I'll use them to determine spacing of my rails.

While waiting for those to come, I've been working on my sled:



Works great. With a 3/4" shelf on top of the lazy susan, there is about 1/8" clearance to the sides when it spins. I can shim it up with paper if it turns out I need more once the rack is loaded.

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post #112 of 244 Old 04-07-2008, 10:36 AM
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the commercial products that use this pull out and swivel design use one top shelf mounted drawer slide to ensure there is no major "racking" (pun intended). it does not need to be heavy duty like the bottom ones
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post #113 of 244 Old 04-07-2008, 10:41 AM
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I'm having a heck of a time finding sheets of aluminum to make face plates for my equipment. Will keep calling places but this is getting frustrating!

The
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driving_Hamster View Post

I'm having a heck of a time finding sheets of aluminum to make face plates for my equipment. Will keep calling places but this is getting frustrating!

I don't know where you live, but we buy all our aluminum for work at a place that is mostly advertised as a copper and brass supplier. They deal with non-ferrous metals, which includes aluminum, and they have a cut-off bin that would meet the needs of most of us, they sell the scrap by the pound.

Look for metal suppliers or more specifically try looking for copper and brass. Good luck.

Oh, and the Seattle answer to the question would be Alaska Copper and Brass.

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post #115 of 244 Old 04-07-2008, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driving_Hamster View Post

I'm having a heck of a time finding sheets of aluminum to make face plates for my equipment. Will keep calling places but this is getting frustrating!

I just used 16 gauge sheet metal for mine. Little harder to cut, but I got it for free. Hopefully, I'll be done by Wednesday so I can post pics.
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post #116 of 244 Old 04-07-2008, 03:09 PM
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have you checked HD? its with the threaded rods and nuts and bolts and what not. out of the 3 or 4 around here, all of them have it??


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post #117 of 244 Old 04-07-2008, 03:17 PM
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Thanks for the options guys. I'd didn't even think to check the big box stores. Will also look into the copper places.

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post #118 of 244 Old 04-07-2008, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by armstrr View Post

the commercial products that use this pull out and swivel design use one top shelf mounted drawer slide to ensure there is no major "racking" (pun intended). it does not need to be heavy duty like the bottom ones

Looking at the MA AX-SXR, it looks like it has two flat mounted slides.

The MA SRSR appears to have 4 normal drawer slides mounted vertically.

Even my heavy duty slides are only rated 150 lb (for the pair) if they are flat mounted. I've tried them on their sides. They are made of heavy gauge steel, but they still flex a bit when extended 28" flat.

Mounted like they are, they are rated 500 lb and are very stiff. I'm willing to sacrifice 3", especially since that 3" will be flush to the ground and be covered by baseboard. Besides, they are easier to mount this way. I can build the whole thing outside the hole and then just lag bolt them in place.

I don't think racking will be an issue (if you mean the base twisting between the door slides and jamming). The bases are secure and will be (very) parallel. I've never had racking issues with any drawers I've made with accuride slides.

We'll see, though.

Paul Meyer
Bee Cave (Austin), TX


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post #119 of 244 Old 04-08-2008, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Driving_Hamster View Post

Thanks for the options guys. I'd didn't even think to check the big box stores. Will also look into the copper places.

You can also mail-order sheet metal from places like www.mcmaster.com and www.mscdirect.com. I think they both ship from the MD/PA/NJ area so delivery is pretty fast. McMaster's website is easier to browse; a quick check finds 12"x24" sheets of 0.05" (about 16g) aluminum for $12-$40 depending on alloy (and yes they do describe the differences in the alloys).
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post #120 of 244 Old 04-08-2008, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by pmeyer View Post


I don't think racking will be an issue (if you mean the base twisting between the door slides and jamming). The bases are secure and will be (very) parallel. I've never had racking issues with any drawers I've made with accuride slides.

We'll see, though.


but have you ever built a 48" tall drawer that extends 28" with 300lbs of rack/equip?

by the look of your work, i'm sure it will work out fine. when you're done you may find that the top of the rack has a little latteral movement, most of which will depend on how your rack system (not the sliding mechanism) is built. ie if you use a welded square tube rack frame, you're gold. if you use 2x2s and finish nails.... either way, in the end if there is any side to side movrment that you don't like, you can add a single flat mounted drawer slide at the top and it will fix all. i'm interested to see how your project works out. as you can tell, i have put some thought into this myself. i had an avrak (sp?) and bought the same drawer slides as you with the intention of building a better mousetrap but ended up selling the house. the theater i'm building now i have made sure i have access to both sides of the equipment to avoid the hole issue. the biggest pain was leaving enough extra cabling at the back without it becoming an unsightly mess. i always had one speaker cable work loose...p****sed me off when i'ld go half way through a movie till i figured out why the sound track sucked...

keep us updated on your progress!
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