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post #271 of 346 Old 02-08-2010, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

Well, I was not blown away by Avatar.
It was stadium seating, I was center of the 1st to last row in the lower tier.
The glasses were Real D glasses. The screen was very large. I never really got emersed. Brightness seemed good. I do actually think in the comming months that a deciated home theater owner could provide a better 3D experience at home than that theater, that presentation.

I am going to give it one more chance as my wife is an Alice in Wonderland freak, so we will go to that one as well.

I may not be in on this one for a few years to come at least, lets see how Alice In Wonderland goes.

When Monsters vs Aliens hit my area, I had the opportunity to see it in 2 different theaters. I was curious to see how they compared. The IMAX presentation was much better than the regular digital 3D. It was also a much more immersive experience - better contrast, more vivid color, larger screen. Naturally, the 3D effect was better, too.

When Avatar opened, it was in the regular digital 3D theater. There was no IMAX version (too costly, they told me - bet they're kicking themselves now ). Extrapolating back, I knew that the IMAX version of Avatar almost certainly would have been much more enjoyable. When I later saw some 2D clips of Avatar at home, it looked better on my 110" home theater screen than it did at the commercial 3D theater - better color and contrast, and a better screen. (Even the IMAX Monsters vs Aliens had a lot of debris floating through the picture, which is very distracting for me these days.)

I'm hoping that on a large home screen, and without the other compromises of a commercial cinema, home 3D has the potential to be better than a commercial 3D theater, just as is the case with just about every 2D cinema (digital or film) in my area. The sooner we find out, the better I'll like it.

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post #272 of 346 Old 02-08-2010, 09:56 AM
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Maybe have been a pre-viewing hype issue. Others in my group I seen it with seemed more impressed than I was.

I am not sure it really comes down to Imax or RealD.... Hard to say.
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post #273 of 346 Old 02-08-2010, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

Maybe have been a pre-viewing hype issue. Others in my group I seen it with seemed more impressed than I was.

I am not sure it really comes down to Imax or RealD.... Hard to say.

It's just so ironic that you're impressed enough with anaglyph 3D DVD that you start thinking about a new 3D PJ system, and then when you see polarized full-resolution/color 3D you're not impressed.



Definitely don't give up on high-quality 3D. Wait and see more well-reviewed material as it is released (too bad Coraline and UP are out of the theater). Besides, the longer you wait the better and cheaper your 3D options will become.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #274 of 346 Old 02-09-2010, 07:07 AM
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David. I was on a 3D glasses and filter site and they said that Imax 3D was not circular polarizers but linear and that real3D was circular. They warned against buying circular polarizer glasses to watch Imax3D.

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post #275 of 346 Old 02-09-2010, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

It's just so ironic that you're impressed enough with anaglyph 3D DVD that you start thinking about a new 3D PJ system, and then when you see polarized full-resolution/color 3D you're not impressed.



Definitely don't give up on high-quality 3D. Wait and see more well-reviewed material as it is released (too bad Coraline and UP are out of the theater). Besides, the longer you wait the better and cheaper your 3D options will become.


I think I expected to much out of it. I'd love to check some live sports too on it since they say some channels are comming out this year. The exit sign really was bugging me causing a glare / reflection in my right eye. I probably will need lighter weighted glasses too.
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post #276 of 346 Old 02-09-2010, 09:04 AM
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Home Theater 3D is available now - sort of. There is as yet no way to go to a big box retailer and write a check for a complete turn key 3D HT system, but you can start putting together some of the pieces now.

The good news is that many of the expensive parts of a 3D system you already have. The single most expensive part of a Home Theater is usually the room and the furnishings. These will stay the same. So will your sound system and lighting control. So a 3D system is for most of us just an enhancement.

3D is coming to your Home Theater through gaming not through movie watching although you may only use 3D in your home for watching movies and never play a game. The gamers today have home systems capable of displaying 3D games with the nVididia active shutter glasses. These 3D gamer systems are run from goosed up PCs that have lots of CPU power, memory, and GPU muscle. Most HT movie watchers use a multimedia receiver not a PC. So if you want to prepare for 3D you might consider reconfiguring your system to run from a PC.

There are some advantages to using a PC instead of a receiver especially when there is rapid technological change. Receivers like my Onkyo or my previous Denon are monolithic whereas a PC is modular. So when I wanted to move from component connections to HDMI connections I had to swap out the whole receiver. If I had been using a PC I could have just swapped out a card or cards. A good PC base unit should last through several rounds of technical change. For example, many posters here are concerned that they will have to throw away their nearly new HDMI 1.3 equipment to replace it with HDMI 1.4 equipment. If this is indeed necessary it will be less painful if it is just a card rather than a whole receiver.

I am putting together my 3D system now. The first thing I'm buying will be a new PC. I'm going to buy a machine with an i5 or i7 processor, eight gigs of RAM, and an SSD storage system (Intel x25-M G2). You can buy a 3D ready projector now but I think it's better to wait. My Blu-ray player may also need to be replaced but again it's too soon. When the players and projectors mature my basic PC will be powerful enough. In the mean time I will have a really fast PC for web surfing.
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post #277 of 346 Old 02-09-2010, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

David. I was on a 3D glasses and filter site and they said that Imax 3D was not circular polarizers but linear and that real3D was circular. They warned against buying circular polarizer glasses to watch Imax3D.

That is correct. And circular and linear polarization can also have their own variations. For example, over the last fifty plus years, 35mm polarized 3-D typically has used 45/45 linear polarization, while IMAX uses 0/90 linear polarization.
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post #278 of 346 Old 02-10-2010, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLB View Post

....For example, many posters here are concerned that they will have to throw away their nearly new HDMI 1.3 equipment to replace it with HDMI 1.4 equipment. If this is indeed necessary it will be less painful if it is just a card rather than a whole receiver.

I am putting together my 3D system now. The first thing I'm buying will be a new PC. I'm going to buy a machine with an i5 or i7 processor, eight gigs of RAM, and an SSD storage system (Intel x25-M G2). You can buy a 3D ready projector now but I think it's better to wait. My Blu-ray player may also need to be replaced but again it's too soon. When the players and projectors mature my basic PC will be powerful enough. In the mean time I will have a really fast PC for web surfing.

How are you planning on inputing the hdmi 1.4 into the pc? I'm not aware of any hdmi-in inputs even in drm supporting OS's like Win 7. So far the PS3 is only support hdmi 1.4 out for it's 3d so that is probably not compatable with the system you indicate. Now it could be possible to get the 3d Cable tv with cablecard tuners but no guarantee of that either. All you can guarantee this would probably work with is bluray 3d and gaming on pc in 3d. 3d gaming on ps3 would most likely not be possible (due to no hdmi 1.4 inputs and the inherent lag processing this on a pc would probably add to the display) and neither would cable in 3d (espn 3d, discovery 3d) unless cablecard access to 3d can be done
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post #279 of 346 Old 02-10-2010, 09:18 AM
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How are you planning on inputing the hdmi 1.4 into the pc? I'm not aware of any hdmi-in inputs even in drm supporting OS's like Win 7. So far the PS3 is only support hdmi 1.4 out for it's 3d so that is probably not compatable with the system you indicate. Now it could be possible to get the 3d Cable tv with cablecard tuners but no guarantee of that either. All you can guarantee this would probably work with is bluray 3d and gaming on pc in 3d. 3d gaming on ps3 would most likely not be possible (due to no hdmi 1.4 inputs and the inherent lag processing this on a pc would probably add to the display) and neither would cable in 3d (espn 3d, discovery 3d) unless cablecard access to 3d can be done

Ah, you hesitate. If you want to be a man of action you have to act. I have no idea how any of this will work out. All this Home Theater stuff is a hobby after all. I'm not looking for guarantees, I'm having fun.

I may not understand HDMI 1.4 but I'm pretty sure I'll have 3D at home before you do.
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post #280 of 346 Old 02-10-2010, 09:31 AM
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PLB, blaze that trail!!!!!

I want to do it in my theater, there is no fun implementing anything in there.


I am going with a two projector solution when I do it. So I have to have conviction on it, to boldly go where no one has gone before.
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post #281 of 346 Old 02-10-2010, 10:42 AM
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BTW. There is a new HDMI standard coming in a few day or weekks, Called HDMI 1.4a.

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post #282 of 346 Old 02-10-2010, 12:27 PM
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Why is this thread not about 3D Projectors?
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post #283 of 346 Old 02-10-2010, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by PLB View Post

Ah, you hesitate. If you want to be a man of action you have to act. I have no idea how any of this will work out. All this Home Theater stuff is a hobby after all. I'm not looking for guarantees, I'm having fun.

I may not understand HDMI 1.4 but I'm pretty sure I'll have 3D at home before you do.

That's the strangest comment yet.

Rather than "act" without being informed and spending more $$ on equipment that's not 3D compatible (even if that's a video card), you may want to spend some time seeing how the 3D architecture shakes out and *then* buy your PC to make sure it's fully compatible.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #284 of 346 Old 02-10-2010, 12:50 PM
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Yeah, it's been possible to have 3D at home for decades, but that's irrelevant. There are simply too many unanswered questions about 3D to be certain of much. Right now, I'm thinking that my first foray into 3D home theater probably will be one of the 73" Mitsubishi DLP rear projectors, their 3D adapter and a 3D Blu-ray player. That's my thinking right now, but there's no way I'm going to buy until I know a lot more. In the next few months, all that may change. If Panasonic announces that it's next projector (5000? 5500?) is 3D capable, I'll probably skip right over the interim solution and get a 3D projector. That's what I really want. As of right now, it's a guessing game. I don't mind being an early adopter, but I don't waste money in games of chance.

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post #285 of 346 Old 02-10-2010, 12:57 PM
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I was a little shocked the 4000 was announced and didn't support 120hz. Here's hoping the 5000 does. Based on past announcement schedule, when can we expect this announcement, do you think?
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post #286 of 346 Old 02-10-2010, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Yeah, it's been possible to have 3D at home for decades, but that's irrelevant. There are simply too many unanswered questions about 3D to be certain of much. Right now, I'm thinking that my first foray into 3D home theater probably will be one of the 73" Mitsubishi DLP rear projectors, their 3D adapter and a 3D Blu-ray player. That's my thinking right now, but there's no way I'm going to buy until I know a lot more. In the next few months, all that may change. If Panasonic announces that it's next projector (5000? 5500?) is 3D capable, I'll probably skip right over the interim solution and get a 3D projector. That's what I really want. As of right now, it's a guessing game. I don't mind being an early adopter, but I don't waste money in games of chance.

Don't get the Mits "3D" sets... they only offer 1/2 res when in 3D mode. That was fine last year when no real 3D standard existed, but at this point it's like getting a ProLogic receiver with 5.1 Dolby Digital/DTS on the horizon... just because both are "surround sound" doesn't make them the same.

Real "3D HD" sets will offer full 1920 x 1080p when in 3D mode.

Both of those are knowns, so even with confusion about which receiver or shutter system etc, at this point it would be counter productive to buy a Mits "3D" system if 3D is a factor for you since it won't provide full HD in 3D mode.

Maybe the VIZIO 72" LCD set that's 480 Hz?

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #287 of 346 Old 02-10-2010, 01:20 PM
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http://www.lge.com/us/ces/press/arti...-projector.jsp

Stole this from the 3D thread that's not about projectors.
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post #288 of 346 Old 02-10-2010, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

Don't get the Mits "3D" sets... they only offer 1/2 res when in 3D mode. That was fine last year when no real 3D standard existed, but at this point it's like getting a ProLogic receiver with 5.1 Dolby Digital/DTS on the horizon... just because both are "surround sound" doesn't make them the same.

Real "3D HD" sets will offer full 1920 x 1080p when in 3D mode.

Both of those are knowns, so even with confusion about which receiver or shutter system etc, at this point it would be counter productive to buy a Mits "3D" system if 3D is a factor for you since it won't provide full HD in 3D mode.

Maybe the VIZIO 72" LCD set that's 480 Hz?

I'm aware of those issues, Dave, but I've read a couple of fairly good reports about the Mits adapter and the quality of the 3D on those older rear pros. There's no way I'm spending the money to get a 72" 3D LCD panel, but if I can get into a 73" Mits 3D rear projection system (with adapter and Blu-ray player) for under $2,000 or so, I might be willing to live with that until an affordable 3D front projection system is available. (Selling some older gear I have lying around probably would make that a $0 exchange. ) Again, I'm not doing anything until I know a lot more than I do now.

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post #289 of 346 Old 02-10-2010, 02:03 PM
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The good news is that many of the expensive parts of a 3D system you already have. The single most expensive part of a Home Theater is usually the room and the furnishings.

For the most part, I have to humbly disagree. I cannot account for the room itself, as pretty much all buildings cost more than 3d gear. And, I realize that in some high end home theaters there are multiple rows of $3000 seats and such, but having spent thousands of dollars on 3D systems (and often getting the parts much cheaper than retail) I can honestly say that any of the 3D systems I have built/owned have cost much more than most people spend on furniture.

A low level 120hz 3d projector of any capacity is going cost at least $500, but most proper ones will be in the thousands. Th new LG at CES, for example, is slated for 10K. While it is considered to be the (consumer level) creme de la creme, it's not outrageously expensive for that type of equipment. In a double stacked passive PJ setup, you can get cheaper PJs, but now you need 2 of them. By itself, I can say the PJs cost more than most people spend on the furniture.

And even then, that it is only one of the 3d puzzle pieces.
For polarized:
Quality circular polarizing filters for dual PJ will cost a couple hundo.
An active polarizing ZScreen is a couple thousand.
A decent HT size good quality silver screen will run the better part of a thousand at least.
The glasses are the only thing that's cheap.

For active:
The projector: I'll mention it again, because you generally need even higher end for 'true' active (non-checkerboard) 3D pj. The sky is the limit, but the bottom line is still a few $K.
A theater-quality emitter retails over $500.
Theater FOV glasses (Nuvision, Crystaleyes, etc.) retail over $500/pair

...admittedly, I need a cheaper hobby, but I couldn't imagine spending as much on the furniture.

Luckily, The consumer level equipment that will be forthcoming will be many degrees less expensive than the currently available pro offerings. I do, however, wonder how the quality of it will be. I am spoiled to the stupidly expensive stuff....
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post #290 of 346 Old 02-10-2010, 02:11 PM
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I doubt the LG will be anything great. It will undoubtedly be a ploarized implementation and will require a screen that reserves polarity. The creme would be two projectors using shutter glasses. Almost any 1080p projector could be used. So just double up what you have. Other than the second projector expense, the other stuff comparatively will be small. Soomer or later we will have single projector shutter glass projectors. They will not be cheap considering the candle power that will be needed. There are home machines now that will work and that have plenty of brightness but they are all plus $50K.

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post #291 of 346 Old 02-10-2010, 03:38 PM
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I doubt the LG will be anything great. It will undoubtedly be a ploarized implementation and will require a screen that reserves polarity. The creme would be two projectors using shutter glasses. Almost any 1080p projector could be used. So just double up what you have. Other than the second projector expense, the other stuff comparatively will be small. Soomer or later we will have single projector shutter glass projectors. They will not be cheap considering the candle power that will be needed. There are home machines now that will work and that have plenty of brightness but they are all plus $50K.

To all of you saying you can simply use 2 front projectors to get 3D, it's really not going to be that easy. There are two issue to consider. First someone will need to build and offer for sale an external processor that will accept the 3D HDMI input from the source (e.g., BD player) then seperate out the right an left video streams and then output via HDMI ports to each of the two projectors. I haven't heard such a product annouced yet (although some manufacture might be planning such a product), but it will also carry a price tag, as yet unknown. The second potential issue if using LCD or LCoS based projectors is these projector's light engines already have an internal polarizing element and you cannot simply add external polarizing filters to get the right hand and left hand circular polarization (or the horizonal and vertical linear poloarization) required to seperate the right and left images.

I do expect to see some 1080p 3D DLP front projectors using shutter glasses introduced this year and I suspect these will offer the lowest cost solution. For those viewers that suffer from rainbow effect (RBE) with single chip DLPs this may not be a solution they can accept, for the majority that don't have real issues with RBE this will probably be the least expensive, and least complex solution for producing a high light output 3D projector.

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post #292 of 346 Old 02-10-2010, 04:02 PM
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Yeah, it seems to me that DLP offers the best chance for cheap 3D projectors in the short term. Of course, Optoma has been offering a 3D projector for a while now, but who knows if it will be compatible with (or adaptable to) the Blu-ray standard?

BTW, does anyone know if the Optoma is a checkerboard 3D projector, or something else?

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post #293 of 346 Old 02-10-2010, 06:46 PM
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If one uses two projectors with a box to sepate the 120hz feed into a left eye right eye 60 hz feed and provide a shutter glass sync, why would any polarizing filters be required?

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post #294 of 346 Old 02-10-2010, 07:36 PM
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Mark,

I think someone already answered this earlier. Sync'ing two projectors to blank out perfectly for each eye will be next to impossible -- one projector has to be 'off' while other is 'on' and vice versa. Any time both the projectors are 'on' at the same time, you will see solid two images (ghosting is too timid a term for this).

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post #295 of 346 Old 02-11-2010, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
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First someone will need to build and offer for sale an external processor that will accept the 3D HDMI input from the source (e.g., BD player) then seperate out the right an left video streams and then output via HDMI ports to each of the two projectors.

Yep this is the main thing I'm waiting on. Once that happens I would then do the circularly polarized 1080p dlp projectors. I would wager it would be in the $500 range standalone or maybe included as a feature in a video scaler
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post #296 of 346 Old 02-11-2010, 06:53 AM
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Yep this is the main thing I'm waiting on. Once that happens I would then do the circularly polarized 1080p dlp projectors. I would wager it would be in the $500 range standalone or maybe included as a feature in a video scaler

There may even be Blu-ray players that do this directly... dual HDMI 1.3 output for left/right separate feeds. I could see that on an OPPO 3D BD player.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #297 of 346 Old 02-11-2010, 07:20 AM
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My guess is this will completely revive the struggling adult industry.

I don't think I would want to watch a 3D hardcore porno (gross IMHO), but it would be awesome to see like a Perfect 10 or Playboy virtual girl floating in my 160" theater standing in my living room.

Women can be so annoying, I am all for the perfect virtual girlfriend - bring on the neurocannula brain shunt as far as I am concerned.

You all know that is where everything is converging.

3D technology

Virtual Worlds like World of Warcraft

Pretty soon we truly will all live in the Matrix - I hope I live long enough to plug in!!!

I know many will say perfect virtual reality will ruin our world but I say bring it on lol.
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post #298 of 346 Old 02-12-2010, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by krinkle View Post

My guess is this will completely revive the struggling adult industry.

I don't think I would want to watch a 3D hardcore porno (gross IMHO), but it would be awesome to see like a Perfect 10 or Playboy virtual girl floating in my 160" theater standing in my living room.

Women can be so annoying, I am all for the perfect virtual girlfriend - bring on the neurocannula brain shunt as far as I am concerned.

You all know that is where everything is converging.

3D technology

Virtual Worlds like World of Warcraft

Pretty soon we truly will all live in the Matrix - I hope I live long enough to plug in!!!

I know many will say perfect virtual reality will ruin our world but I say bring it on lol.

There's a whole raft of people over on one of the Avatar forums that would absolutely love lifesize 3D image of Neytiri floating in their living room. And since, like your other examples, she only exists in the virtual world, that the closest they will ever get to the real thing.
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post #299 of 346 Old 02-12-2010, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

To all of you saying you can simply use 2 front projectors to get 3D, it's really not going to be that easy. There are two issue to consider. First someone will need to build and offer for sale an external processor that will accept the 3D HDMI input from the source (e.g., BD player) then seperate out the right an left video streams and then output via HDMI ports to each of the two projectors.


This option should be offered directly from the start with a two HDMI output Bluray player. Seems easy enough for them to do.
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post #300 of 346 Old 02-12-2010, 08:07 AM
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Mark,

I think someone already answered this earlier. Sync'ing two projectors to blank out perfectly for each eye will be next to impossible -- one projector has to be 'off' while other is 'on' and vice versa. Any time both the projectors are 'on' at the same time, you will see solid two images (ghosting is too timid a term for this).

With two projetcors and polarizing filters there really is no blanking out. The separation is done by the polarization.
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