Official 3D Projector Thread. - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 346 Old 01-16-2010, 12:48 PM
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You need to paste in the thread. Much of my info on the Infitec system has come from Kamus. Very helpful man. I have also talked to the importer. Using two prokectors is a hobbyist solution. Color correction will be a big cost issue for the hobbyist using this solution. I think the future will be a single high lumens good contrast projector that will be able to split a 3d 1080p signal coming in at 120hz and flashing in splits at 60, one for each eye onto to a normal screen and viewed through shutter glasses. except at the plus $75K levelsuch machines do not yet exist yet.

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post #62 of 346 Old 01-17-2010, 01:58 PM
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Mark,

Regarding the silver screen: Is this necessary also with circular polarized light or only linearly polarized?

I saw Avatar with circular polarized glasses and the screen looked like a normal matte white screen.
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post #63 of 346 Old 01-17-2010, 05:31 PM
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Either type of polarizer needs a screen that maintains the polariztion as flashed on the screen. A circular polarizer allows your head to tilt without artifacts. There are other differences as well.i believe a single light engine lens projector can also work with an electrically operated circular polarizer that in essence rotates quickly to change the polariztion fromleft toright and back.

the realissue here is the screen. HTs generally use low gain diffusive screensthat do not hot spot or color shift significantly. Any type of 3D projection system that utilizes polarization makes these type screens unsuitable.Such systems willnot work unless the screen maintains the polarization. with infitec filters (Dolby3D) or shutter glass systems,polarization is not used and a screen that maintains polarization is neither required or desirable.

Assume some inthe front projectionHT community wish to display 3D somewhat decently.It is unlikely that such community would switch to silver screens or employ 2 screens. remember for quite some time the majority of source material will be 2D with the community unwilling to sacrifice 2D quality in order todisplay 3D. Thus I concludean adoption of FP shutter glass systems.The Infitec filters are licensed froma german company and a significant ptemium in royalties arises.While the home brewer could employ infitec filters fromrelativelt cheapglasses, two projectors would be required for a home brew and color correction boxes would also be required.Expensive but at least a normal screen could be used. Commercialtheaters using the Dolby 3D (Infitec) systememploy a rotating paddle wheel after the light source, syncing the right Infitec filter to the left or right eye flash. Most commercial projectors have space for addiding the paddle system and the system is sold with the color correction box.Syncing is tued in to the digital source server.all of this is impracticalfrom a cost point of view for the HT at this point.

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post #64 of 346 Old 01-17-2010, 06:03 PM
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It should be noted that if low gain home theater type screens are used, light cannons will be needed to supply adequate brightness. There simply isn`t an all pro no con solution. At this point, the best economical solution might might a very large say 73 inch D LCD screen utilizing shutter glasses. LG is coming out with such a solution for $3500 MSRP plus shutter glasses. 480 LED back lit zones. So I will sit close for my 3D sports.

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post #65 of 346 Old 01-17-2010, 09:16 PM
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To use shutter glasses doesn't the projector just need to accept a true 120hz signal? My 3D LCD monitor is exactly the same as it's non 3D version accept that mine has a faster 120hz panel. I lose about 40% brightness on my LCD ONLY when i put on the shutter glasses. When I have the monitor in 3D mode the brightness is exactly the same as non 3D mode. It's only with the shutter where I get a loss of about 40% total brightness.

Now if Epson releases a true 120hz projector that accepts a 120hz signal (60hz each eye) and uses active shutter glasses sync with the projector then the Epson will be way more then bright enough for 3D. My Epson is brighter in Dynamic mode then my 22" Samsung LCD!!

Im guessing the 80% drop in brightness must be because of the way DLP creates the 3D image with it's colour wheel nonsense. There is no reason a 3 chip LCD projector like the Epson would not be bright enough for 3D.
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post #66 of 346 Old 01-17-2010, 10:46 PM
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Right. To use shutter glasses the monitor needs to accept 120hz, decode it into its left and right eye parts, and display it assuming it can display it. In your case,using its 120 hz speed. Generally a LCD monitor is way way way brighter than the ft lamberts available on a FP screen. Are you measuring the loss of brightness when you use your glasses on your panelor are you estimating? Guessing brightness decreases or increases takes a lot of experience and correlation. My guess is that you are losing 80% of your brightness when viewing in 3D with your shutter glasses.Toyour eye,you are guessing a 40% diminuation. But we know that to be wrong.

Now we are going to need a lot of light on our low gain screens. How much larger are our screens than your monitor? The chip,let`s call your monitor a really big big chip with lots of back light has a lot more lumens than our feeble chip projectors and 300 or so watt bulbs. Then we have to shoot it through a light robbing lens.

BTW. Most if not all 3D projectors are 3 chippers, SXRD or DLP, not one chip DLPs using color wheels. The light loss has todo with the amount of time the right eye or left eye image is fully on the screen and the loss of light through the shutter glasses. Each eye lens in the glasses is open way less tha 50% of the time and the glasses are not even close to be transmissive when open. This seems tobe a difficult concept tograsp.Do some reading.Gothe the pro commercialsites. Go tothe commercial screen sites.They discuss light loss and screen gain and types needed.

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post #67 of 346 Old 01-18-2010, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

It should be noted that if low gain home theater type screens are used, light cannons will be needed to supply adequate brightness. There simply isn`t an all pro no con solution. At this point, the best economical solution might might a very large say 73 inch D LCD screen utilizing shutter glasses. LG is coming out with such a solution for $3500 MSRP plus shutter glasses. 480 LED back lit zones. So I will sit close for my 3D sports.

I think Vizio has one about this size coming out as well if I remember correctly for the same MSRP.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #68 of 346 Old 01-18-2010, 11:48 AM
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I meant to say Vizio not LG.

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post #69 of 346 Old 01-20-2010, 03:00 PM
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Gentlemen,

Although not price listed, thought it appropriate this goes here:

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messag...81/614964.html

Since it is single lens, I'm assuming this would need shutter glasses? Not Passive?

Also interesting is that the input is of course, HDMi 1.3

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post #70 of 346 Old 01-20-2010, 04:19 PM
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The LG is the PJ we've been discussing in this thread... it uses two internal light-paths for each eye that pass through polarized filters, and are then recombined in a single output for easy focus and auto-alignment.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #71 of 346 Old 01-21-2010, 11:25 AM
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While I enjoyed the 3D technology used in Avatar, like millions of other consumers in America and around the world who have spent BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS of dollars recently upgrading our entire HD A/V theater systems so that they now meet the 1080p/1.3HDMI HD standard, I refuse to trash-can my new ONKYO PR-SC5507p pre-pro or our SONY BDP S550 Blu-ray player or SONY VPL-VW60 projector so that "the powers that be" can sell me UNPROVEN, NO SINGLE STANDARD, 3D technology that will need an entirely new UNPROVEN 1.4 HDMI format in order to view 3D content rendering nearly everything we own that is 1.3 HDMI useless.

I will let the early adopter "suckers" spend THEIR money beta testing this 3D technology. I will let THEM throw THEIR money down the toilet on a supposedly "new and improved," NO SINGLE STANDARD 3D (shutter glasses, non shutter glasses, polarized glasses, non polarized glasses, red and green glasses, non red and green glasses) and UNPROOVEN 1.4 HDMI format.

The upcoming 3D format wars (with millions of "early adopter" casualties left in it's wake with billions of dollars worth of now worthless technology they can't even sell on Craigslist when everything finally shakes out a decade from now) are going to make HD/Bluray fiasco look like a walk in the park.

Remember: SONY, ONKYO, Denon, Yamaha, etc... haven't even worked out all of the 1.3 HDMI "bugs" yet on gear they have already sold and they expect us to throw it ALL AWAY for an entirely new and unproven 1.4 HDMI format that they themselves will no longer support as soon as the "new and improved", equally untested 1.5 HDMI format comes along.

As for "3DTV"; just look at the existing poor "quality" of HD programming we are being fed by the likes of Comcast, DISH and Direct TV, etc. Many of the HD NFL play off games just broadcast were not sharp or crisp/very poor and appeared to be 720p at best. People are not going to spend billions of dollars on new 3DTV's while HD broadcasters continually feed them lousy HD signals.

Is 3D cool? Yes, from a technological standpoint, Avatar in 3D is a game changer. However, ONCE A STANDARD IS FINALLY AGREED UPON (after this next bloody 3D "format war" is finally over which could take another decade), it will cost tens of thousands of dollars (if not more) to replace nearly all of a families existing AV equipment in order to even remotely begin to bring the quality of that 3D theater experience to the average persons home theater and unless people have their heads in the sand, we are in the midst of one of the severest economic downturns since the Great Depression.

As for me; someone feel free to contact me in about ten - fifteen years when the PROVEN, ONE-STANDARD, GLASS-LESS 3D is finally available at a reasonable price. Until then I will sit the 3D, 1.4abcd (1. whatever) HDMI format war out and be content and enjoy the incredible HD system I already have which is bought and paid for
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post #72 of 346 Old 01-21-2010, 12:55 PM
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However, ONCE A STANDARD IS FINALLY AGREED UPON (after this next bloody 3D "format war" is finally over which could take another decade)

Dude, you need therapy, not 3D.

While you can certainly (understandably) feel frustrated by the new Blu-ray 3D spec requiring HDMI 1.4, this false mantra that there's some sort of "format war" or undefined 3D standard needs to stop. It's not true.

There is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE a rule about what type of display is used or what type of 3D display technolgy consumers can buy. Our HD standard doesn't require that all TVs be Plasma or that all projectors be DLP... that's a manufacturing design question. In the same way the industry doesn't require that displays choose active or passive or mandate a refresh rate... that's up to you as a consumer to choose what you'd prefer. That's not the 3D standard... that's the TV set.

The "standard" is how it's shipped back/forth between devices so that the signals work over HDMI 1.4 on all 1.4 gear. There are also some "old fashioned" ways of packing 3D onto HDMI 1.3 that were written into the new 3D spec to allow Satellite and cable companies to send (1/2 resolution) 3D over existing equipment and hardware.

Those standards are already written. Now it's just a matter of getting the 3D displays to make the most of them.

At some point the bulb in your (fantastic) Sony projector will need replacing... and certainly by your 2nd, 3rd, or 4th bulb you'll be getting the upgrade bug as some new LED lit true-black projector will be for sale for probably less than what you paid for your Sony. That might be the right time to think about getting into 3D. For now, enjoy your Sony. It's no less a great projector just because there's now the ADDITIONAL option for consumers to enjoy 3D blu-ray and TV, for those who want it.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #73 of 346 Old 01-21-2010, 05:44 PM
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At some point the bulb in your (fantastic) Sony projector will need replacing... and certainly by your 2nd, 3rd, or 4th bulb you'll be getting the upgrade bug as some new LED lit true-black projector will be for sale for probably less than what you paid for your Sony. That might be the right time to think about getting into 3D.

That sounds good. So far I've got two years on my current Black Pearl bulb at 1000 hours, and two or three more on the one sitting on the shelf. Maybe by then there'll be something to hang my hat on regarding 3D at home, but not anytime soon. Maybe I'll be at a natural upgrade point by then.

Unless I get lucky and someone or something makes me rich. Then I'll just throw the money around on 3D and all new gear just for the fun of it.

I think the poll Art took here on AVS showed like 75% of us would rather see better 2D gear than 3D. I consider us to be a discerning crowd, so maybe the general public must feel otherwise and will make 3D at home a success right out of the gate.

See ya. Dave

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post #74 of 346 Old 01-21-2010, 06:57 PM
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I think the poll Art took here on AVS showed like 75% of us would rather see better 2D gear than 3D.

These two goals are not mutually exclusive. In fact, 3D projector design will advance the quality of projection, because you need brighter images to compensate for light-loss with 3D display, and higher refresh rates with active 3D designs. LED illuminated DLP could produce a stunning 3D image with its instant on/off capability if they can get the brightness up. And all of those benefits of design will produce even better looking 2D images as a result.

win-win.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #75 of 346 Old 01-21-2010, 08:28 PM
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Jmouse. Rrelax. There is no and there will be no display device standard. There are a variety of ways of displaying 3D. but there is an agreed source and transmission standard that will work with all the different display technologies. An the Bluray 1080p 48 standard will work over existing 1.3 HDMI.

The cable and satellite industry rebroadcast the native resolutions of the HD networks. These are either 720p or 1080i. most sports channels are in fact 720p but some are 1080i.ESPN etc things 720p is a better format for sports action than 1080i and I agree with them. Whatever, if my cable box or whatever doesn`t allow native rate pass thru but changes everything to how it is set, 720p or1080i, I change the setting to whatever format the network is using so the cheap scalers and deinterlacers in the cable box etc don`t screw it up and I allow better scalers and deinterlacers further down the chain in my system change it to 1080p, the native of my projector.

Now more or less ideally, the Bluray source standard will be 1080p at 48, allowing each eye to get 1080p at 24. For live sports, broadcast video, the ideal might be 1080p at 120, allowing each eye to get 1080p 60. But none of the networks broadcast 1080p. They broadcast 720p or 1080i, both at 60. So I doubt we will see 1080p at 120 any timesoon. I don`t know enough about the broadcast standard but i suspect it will use the present bandwidth, down rezing the signal to each eye. But for 3D, 720p will be just fine with 30 for each eye in the source and refreshed faster by the display. We will know more shortly but it will at least as good broadcast as we have now.Some are better than others now and that will remain true to 3D channels as well. the quality of the cameras, yada, yada. Bluray will be the best at the highest resolution 1080p and 24 for each eye is perhaps the ideal for film. just as we don`t have 1080p 60 now for video (sports), we won`t have it for 3D TV either.

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post #76 of 346 Old 01-21-2010, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

At some point the bulb in your (fantastic) Sony projector will need replacing... and certainly by your 2nd, 3rd, or 4th bulb you'll be getting the upgrade bug as some new LED lit true-black projector will be for sale for probably less than what you paid for your Sony. That might be the right time to think about getting into 3D. For now, enjoy your Sony. It's no less a great projector just because there's now the ADDITIONAL option for consumers to enjoy 3D blu-ray and TV, for those who want it.

I already have 2,400 hours on one lamp which I am about to replace with a brand new lamp and 650 hours on my reserve lamp and have no interest or overriding urge to go out and drop another $8k plus on another projector anytime soon so your point is moot.

Like I said, I can wait 10 - 15 years for this whole 3D mess to finally shake out because I and multitudes of AVS members are tired of being used as beta testers for an industry that continues to treat us like we are nothing but walking dollar signs that can be manipulated into throwing away our gear every 2-3 years for their latest fad. And yes, at this point 3D is just a fad.
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post #77 of 346 Old 01-21-2010, 09:05 PM
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Okay, just a quick question, if the "Bluray source standard will be 1080p at 48", would it then possible to view 3D on current displays, such as the Panasonic AE30000? I'm still not really getting the whole refresh rate issue, thanks.
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post #78 of 346 Old 01-21-2010, 09:19 PM
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Okay, just a quick question, if the "Bluray source standard will be 1080p at 48", would it then possible to view 3D on current displays, such as the Panasonic AE30000? I'm still not really getting the whole refresh rate issue, thanks.

That's the way the left/right 24p signal is "packed" over HDMI... left/right/left/right at 48 since 48 = 2 x 24 fps.

However, the display device needs to *recognize* the signal and deal with it appropriately... it's not the same as a 2D 48Hz signal since the PJ would need to either sync with shutter glasses as it alternates left/right or split the signal into two separate 1080p 24 streams for polarized or whatever. Also, if you were doing active shutter glasses, there's no way you'd tolerate on/off left/right at the raw 48 Hz... that's literally 24 Hz per eye with a black flash that would last as long as each "on" frame moment... talk about serious flicker. So a "real" 3D display would take that 1080p48 signal, split it into the two actual 1080p24 signals, and then upconvert to 60 Hz per eye minimum (120 or more per eye ideally) and then recombine into a 120 (or higher) Hz signal for left/right with a more graceful effect and less visible flicker.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #79 of 346 Old 01-22-2010, 02:03 AM
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Thanks for the reply, David. So basically current 1080p displays like my AE3000 wouldn't be able to "recognize" the 3D signal, even though it can do a refresh rate of 120Hz?

Sorry for the continued ignorance, but what would happen if I connected a 3D-enabled BD player playing a 3D disc to my current display, say connected via HDMI 1.3 (i.e. the PS3)? Would it not show the content at all or would it show it with the flicker issues that you mentioned?

What I'm trying to understand is whether a current 1080p display like my AE3000 could still support 3D, but at a lower quality level, or would it not be able to produce any 3D imaging at all?
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post #80 of 346 Old 01-22-2010, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by KyaDawn View Post

Thanks for the reply, David. So basically current 1080p displays like my AE3000 wouldn't be able to "recognize" the 3D signal, even though it can do a refresh rate of 120Hz?

Sorry for the continued ignorance, but what would happen if I connected a 3D-enabled BD player playing a 3D disc to my current display, say connected via HDMI 1.3 (i.e. the PS3)? Would it not show the content at all or would it show it with the flicker issues that you mentioned?

What I'm trying to understand is whether a current 1080p display like my AE3000 could still support 3D, but at a lower quality level, or would it not be able to produce any 3D imaging at all?

It all depends.

Some "3D ready" sets out now using HDMI 1.3 won't recognize the 1080p48 stream as 3D, but will recognize other "frame packing" techniques currently used to squeeze 2 video channels into the space of one (however, you typically lose resolution going that route).

With a set like yours, here's the pivotal question: can the set *accept* a 1080p120 input?

If so, then it's *possible* that you could use it for a basic 3D operation if the latency issue doesn't cause smearing when each new frame is painted each 120th of a second... you could then get a 1080p48 -> 1080p120 converter (or maybe your 3D blu-ray player would have a 120Hz output option) and you could feed the projector the left/right/left/right 120Hz signal. You'd have 60Hz per eye this way which is the basic minimum acceptable for watching. The catch: how do you sync the shutter glasses? This would normally be handled by the display, but if you could "dial in" the synchronization to correct for any small lag times between components, you could make it work.

Most 120Hz sets don't actually accept 120Hz input however.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #81 of 346 Old 01-22-2010, 06:27 AM
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I already have 2,400 hours on one lamp which I am about to replace with a brand new lamp and 650 hours on my reserve lamp and have no interest or overriding urge to go out and drop another $8k plus on another projector anytime soon so your point is moot.

Like I said, I can wait 10 - 15 years for this whole 3D mess to finally shake out because I and multitudes of AVS members are tired of being used as beta testers for an industry that continues to treat us like we are nothing but walking dollar signs that can be manipulated into throwing away our gear every 2-3 years for their latest fad. And yes, at this point 3D is just a fad.

So, you have no interest in updating your projector over the next 10 to 15 years? If so, the you are a rarity on this forum. 3D, whether we like it or not, is rapidly becoming part of the video landscape. What are you and I going to do a couple of years from now when people here oohing and awing over the latest 3D projector and the latest 3D movie? Most people on these forms like to be at the forefront of the video movement. How many here aren't watching Blu Ray? HD was around for years before BD was released just like 3D has been around for years (3D gaming has been around for several years and 3D ready T.Vs as well, albeit with no source material). The industry is ready for the big push. If you're not watching 3D a couple of years from now I suspect it would be similar to only watching DVD at this time. You don't have to play the game, but you'll simply be left out of this community - whatever that means to you. When others here are raving about how much better 3D is and how much more immersive it is then anyone who doesn't have 3D, perhaps including myself, is going to feel left out. Yes, our relatively new, now obsolete video (and audio) equipment, won't be worth much, but it wasn't worth much anyway (depreciation is brutal) and with 3D moving in it is just worth that much less! Resistance is futile!
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post #82 of 346 Old 01-22-2010, 07:05 AM
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I tend to agree.

Again, no one is forced to upgrade anything if they don't want 3D. But let's be realistic... any videophile on this forum is hardly going to wait 10-15 years before replacing his/her current projector... And when that inevitable upgrade comes (probably within 5 years for most folks here) that latest and greatest true-black, high-contrast, laser/LED lamp-free PJ will more than likely be 3D capable...

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #83 of 346 Old 01-22-2010, 07:26 AM
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Nio chance that the Panasonic will accept a 120 hz input. However,the panasonic would workusing a two projector solution with the appropriate signal splitting done say out of a computer with each projector taking the the image for one eye.This would normally be a filter solution and if polarizer filters are used,a silver screen would be required. Most won`t want to mess with two projectors or go to silver screens. So basically a new projector will be required, one accepting a 120 hz signal, one having lots of light, and the view by norma lscreen would be through shutter glasses.

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post #84 of 346 Old 01-22-2010, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Nio chance that the Panasonic will accept a 120 hz input. However,the panasonic would workusing a two projector solution with the appropriate signal splitting done say out of a computer with each projector taking the the image for one eye.This would normally be a filter solution and if polarizer filters are used,a silver screen would be required. Most won`t want to mess with two projectors or go to silver screens. So basically a new projector will be required, one accepting a 120 hz signal, one having lots of light, and the view by norma lscreen would be through shutter glasses.

Actually, why wouldn't shutter glasses work with two projectors?
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post #85 of 346 Old 01-22-2010, 08:02 AM
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Actually, why wouldn't shutter glasses work with two projectors?

think about it... you'd have to sync the two projectors so that when one PJ was on, the other would be off. There is no way to sync two machines so that one would black-out while the other was lit. Now... one option would be 3rd-party "active shutter kits" that would place an LCD filter over the lens of each PJ... and that could act as a black-out shutter to sync with the glasses. If someone comes out with such a device, it could be used with stacked PJs for 3D projection without requiring polarized filters/silver screen.

Hopefully we'll see something like that, as stacking 2 PJs could be a really cool way to go for high-performance 3D front projection.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #86 of 346 Old 01-22-2010, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Nio chance that the Panasonic will accept a 120 hz input. However,the panasonic would workusing a two projector solution with the appropriate signal splitting done say out of a computer with each projector taking the the image for one eye.This would normally be a filter solution and if polarizer filters are used,a silver screen would be required. Most won`t want to mess with two projectors or go to silver screens. So basically a new projector will be required, one accepting a 120 hz signal, one having lots of light, and the view by norma lscreen would be through shutter glasses.

Okay, I've basically accepted that I'll need a new 3D projector, which I'm ready to splash out on if there is a comparable model to my AE3000 that'll cost around $3K. That's my entry level point and hopefully there will be suitable model released soon.

There's no way I can do a 2 projector system anyway since I have one set of HDMI cables inside my wall. No way I'm going to rip open my walls again to just add another set of cables for a 2 PJ solution! Sounds a bit to me like a "blast from the past" from the days of stacked CRT PJs which I'm glad we have moved far and away from.

I'm just hoping there will be a solution that will drift away from having a silver screen, nor will I need "special" HMDI 1.4 cables as again, that relates to some major renovation work. I also don't want to have to replace my receiver either as it's fairly new and I put together my system less than a year ago.

I have to say I've been bullish about 3D in the home, but I'm more for it if it's just about replacing a display than if I have to replace everything else, from cables, receivers and even adding screens. If that was the case, it would have to revert to a more organic upgrade schedule which would be around 3-4 years for me in light of how new my current 1080p set-up is.
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post #87 of 346 Old 01-22-2010, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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And what about those (read me) that have 2.35 setups with anamorphic lenses and use a keyhole in the wall?? You can bet I am not going to rip any of that out or my 130" curved studiotek screen. I will wait for a bright enough, single projector solution that will work with my 1.3 gain screen before I even think about upgrading.

That said, I did see Avatar in 3D and it looked amazing on the IMAX screen using polarized glasses and would not mind the light loss with that type of setup.

Not sure about the shutter glasses as a lot of people will have issues (headaches) with those types. I would have to watch a movie or two in a row to make sure I did not have a problem with them.

Cost wise I would thing the polarized route would be the way to go for front projection home theaters.
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post #88 of 346 Old 01-22-2010, 09:29 AM
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And what about those (read me) that have 2.35 setups with anamorphic lenses and use a keyhole in the wall?? You can bet I am not going to rip any of that out or my 130" curved studiotek screen. I will wait for a bright enough, single projector solution that will work with my 1.3 gain screen before I even think about upgrading.

I'm sure that some company (like Panamorph) will come out with a mirror/prism device to "merge" the two outputs for a single key-hole application like you have. It would actually be pretty cheap/easy because unlike anamorphic applications you're not dealing with changing geometry... just combining two sets of images into a single overlay.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #89 of 346 Old 01-22-2010, 09:39 AM
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There's no way I can do a 2 projector system anyway since I have one set of HDMI cables inside my wall. No way I'm going to rip open my walls again to just add another set of cables for a 2 PJ solution! Sounds a bit to me like a "blast from the past" from the days of stacked CRT PJs which I'm glad we have moved far and away from.

There's good chance that the raw 1080p48 stream will pass through your HDMI 1.3 gear... so let's wait and see on that issue (you may not need a new reciever).

If that works, then what you could do is (from your PS3) send 1080p48 3D over the one HDMI wire (what you already have in your wall) to where the PJ is located, and *there* you could buy a 3rd party "3d converter" that could take the 1080p48 HDMI input and then output it as two independent HDMI streams via two HDMI outputs... one for the "left" projector and one for the "right"... then let's see what cool options are available at the time to get 3D light to the screen. Right now you've got a choice of filter options as Mark has explained. But there's a good possibility that some manufacturer will provide an active-shutter LCD kit with an electronically timed black-out LCD filter that would fit over the lens of each PJ and send out sync timing for your active shutter glasses.

That would be an ideal solution for anyone willing to stack two identical PJs to get the supreme front-projection experience. The only catch might be with DLP devices where the "off" state of the LCD shutter might have some sort of strobbing effects with the color-wheel cycle... but I think those issues could be resolved by higher refresh rates (like 240Hz or 480 Hz) for the glasses.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #90 of 346 Old 01-22-2010, 10:07 AM
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You know, the fact that it seems to me that we are really going back to the days of stacked PJs for "higher lumens" and "increased quality" shows me that 3D technology for the home PJ market is really in its "early early adopter" stage, and it may be best to sit this stage out until the manufacturers start releasing high lumens single lens 3D projectors that are as easy to use and set up as current 1080p models are.

I can't imaging going back to the days and headaches of extensive calibration for PJs, which I think will be the reality when we're talking about stacking projectors, even if they are digital. And to add to that equation 3rd party "3D converters" and filter systems and sync timing sounds like a real nightmare, something that I thought was history when we had the digital PJ "revolution".

No offense and not to pour cold water on what some people might consider a "hobby", but for me, 3D is about experiencing the actual movies or content and not about dealing continually with the equipment. I'd love to get a proper and high quality 3D PJ system in my home, but at the moment it just seems too complicated and under-developed where even if I did take the plunge, I'm sure my set-up would be obsolete and slightly ridiculous in a very short amount of time.
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