New 1080p 3D projector at CES - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 48 Old 01-05-2010, 11:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I heard a new 1080p 3d capable will be revealed at CES. Stay tuned here for details.

Full press release on my website-
http://stereowiseplus.com/2010/01/lg...3-d-1080p.html

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post #2 of 48 Old 01-06-2010, 07:41 AM
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Oh I'm tuned... and staying that way...


1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #3 of 48 Old 01-11-2010, 12:28 PM
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6 panels? so it is safe to assume that this SXRD LG projector will be using the shutter technology? rather than the REAL-D polarized solution which requires a special silver screen?

CEDAR PEAKS CINEMA (Now w/ 3D)

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post #4 of 48 Old 01-11-2010, 12:39 PM
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I love clicking on peoples Theater Build Links. Nice Cinema "damnsam77" well done. What a room.
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post #5 of 48 Old 01-11-2010, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

6 panels? so it is safe to assume that this SXRD LG projector will be using the shutter technology? rather than the REAL-D polarized solution which requires a special silver screen?

man I hope so. anything to keep me from replacing my screen would be good. and I'm DYING to get 3d in my home theater.


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post #6 of 48 Old 01-11-2010, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

I love clicking on peoples Theater Build Links. Nice Cinema "damnsam77" well done. What a room.

Alan,
coming from you, I take this as a huge compliment. I hope you didn't mind my cheap tacky marvel/dcc action hero cut-outs, hehe! BTW, a new custom L-shaped retro bar will be outfitted in the designated space undeneath the red pendant lights, it should be in by the superbowl and will seat 7-8 people.

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man I hope so. anything to keep me from replacing my screen would be good. and I'm DYING to get 3d in my home theater.

Exactly how I feel!!! I read so many indifferent views towards 3D and I think I may be the only potential 3D customer, good to know others appreciate it and are salivating just as much at the possibilities.

CEDAR PEAKS CINEMA (Now w/ 3D)

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post #7 of 48 Old 01-11-2010, 12:55 PM
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oh believe me, I blind bought both journey to the center of the earth and coraline just so I could have SOMETHING in 3D, even if it's just anaglyph.

and my entire theater is built around my acoustically transparent screen so not only would I have to replace it, but also either have to wait for someone to sell a consumer-affordable acoustically transparent material for the home, or what? pay for a custom RealD screen?

no thanks!


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post #8 of 48 Old 01-14-2010, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is more details found out about the projector at CES:

http://stereowiseplus.com/2010/01/lg...-from-ces.html

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post #9 of 48 Old 01-14-2010, 05:10 PM
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If it used shutter glasses only 3 SXRD chips would be needed. Since it uses 6 chips (2 light engines) it would act like a two projector 3D system except housed in one body and using only one lens. Likely with such a 2 engine set up, the filter would be polarizers internal to the projector and a silver screen and polarizing glasses would be required. A silver screen is a joke for normal 2d presentations. Hot spotting and color shifting. Polarizors are not a viable FP system INMSHO. Infitec filters and glasses are viable because no silver screen is required. The machine then would have to have color correction for both engines. MSRP $10K for the LG. In the bridge or NFL world, it is a PASS,

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post #10 of 48 Old 02-03-2010, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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according to LG, it used a silver screen. More details at:
http://stereowiseplus.com/2010/01/lg...-from-ces.html

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post #11 of 48 Old 02-03-2010, 07:46 AM
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I hope it at least uses circular polarizers. Given the light lumens level of only 2500, using polarizers and a silver screen, which of course has usuable gain, makes sense. But I`ll pass.

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post #12 of 48 Old 02-03-2010, 09:01 AM
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single lens = active shutter glasses.

The polarizers have to go over the lens.

Pretty darn sure that any passive system is going to require two projectors.
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post #13 of 48 Old 02-03-2010, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

single lens = active shutter glasses.

The polarizers have to go over the lens.

Pretty darn sure that any passive system is going to require two projectors.

John,

we love'ya, but please just take a moment or two to read up before posting stuff.

The LG projector has the polarizing filters internally at the end of each light engine before the light (polarized at that point) is combined into a single lens output. So it's a passive single-box/single-lens PJ. If a projector is 3D by design, there's no reason why the polarizing filter would need to be out the outside of the lens.

BTW, the Real3D projectors in movie theaters are also single lens. In fact, they only have one light engine! They work by *alternating* a polarizing filter for each left/right/left/right transition. In other words, Real3D uses a modified 2D projector chassis that works with sequential left/right images just like LCD shutter glasses... the only difference is that rather than having LCD glasses to sync up, which would be expensive for a movie theater, they put the active filter in the PJ head so you can wear the passive glasses. In other words, rather than two constant-on left/right images that pass through two stationary polarized filters, the Real3D projector is actually a single projected image that's alternating left/right/left/right on the screen by means of actually alternating the polarizing filter each fraction of a second in the projector head.

Bottom line... just because a projector has one lens doesn't tell you whether the 3D methodology uses polarized eyewear or active LCD shutter glasses.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #14 of 48 Old 02-03-2010, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

John,

we love'ya, but please just take a moment or two to read up before posting stuff.

The LG projector has the polarizing filters internally at the end of each light engine before the light (polarized at that point) is combined into a single lens output. So it's a passive single-box/single-lens PJ. If a projector is 3D by design, there's no reason why the polarizing filter would need to be out the outside of the lens.

BTW, the Real3D projectors in movie theaters are also single lens. In fact, they only have one light engine! They work by *alternating* a polarizing filter for each left/right/left/right transition. In other words, Real3D uses a modified 2D projector chassis that works with sequential left/right images just like LCD shutter glasses... the only difference is that rather than having LCD glasses to sync up, which would be expensive for a movie theater, they put the active filter in the PJ head so you can wear the passive glasses. In other words, rather than two constant-on left/right images that pass through two stationary polarized filters, the Real3D projector is actually a single projected image that's alternating left/right/left/right on the screen by means of actually alternating the polarizing filter each fraction of a second in the projector head.

Bottom line... just because a projector has one lens doesn't tell you whether the 3D methodology uses polarized eyewear or active LCD shutter glasses.

Thanks, So single display / single display engine systems have this limitation but dual engine single lens systems will not?

I am still learning.
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post #15 of 48 Old 02-03-2010, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

John,

we love'ya, but please just take a moment or two to read up before posting stuff.

The LG projector has the polarizing filters internally at the end of each light engine before the light (polarized at that point) is combined into a single lens output. So it's a passive single-box/single-lens PJ. If a projector is 3D by design, there's no reason why the polarizing filter would need to be out the outside of the lens.

BTW, the Real3D projectors in movie theaters are also single lens. In fact, they only have one light engine! They work by *alternating* a polarizing filter for each left/right/left/right transition. In other words, Real3D uses a modified 2D projector chassis that works with sequential left/right images just like LCD shutter glasses... the only difference is that rather than having LCD glasses to sync up, which would be expensive for a movie theater, they put the active filter in the PJ head so you can wear the passive glasses. In other words, rather than two constant-on left/right images that pass through two stationary polarized filters, the Real3D projector is actually a single projected image that's alternating left/right/left/right on the screen by means of actually alternating the polarizing filter each fraction of a second in the projector head.

Bottom line... just because a projector has one lens doesn't tell you whether the 3D methodology uses polarized eyewear or active LCD shutter glasses.

PS: I have been reading. I read a lot on the LG system and really did not find anything that stated what system it is or what type of glasses it will use. Please hit me with a link so I can read it for myself.
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post #16 of 48 Old 02-03-2010, 10:59 AM
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Hey John,

regarding the LG... I was reading lots of reports direct from CES from folks who were attending the demonstration. It was posted then (I think some threads at AVS) that it was a silver screen, circular-polarized, and single-chassis with dual-light-engine SXRD with single lens output. The only way to get polarization that way would be to have the filters in the light path inside the box before the light from the 2 engines is combined for single output via single lens, so that last part is my own extrapolation (but 99% sure to be correct given everything else).

I provided two examples of 3D projectors that use passive-polarized goggles: one has two internal light engines (LG) and one does not (Real3D theatrical projectors), so there's no "limitation" fundamentally when we talk about a single-box projector and wanting active or passive eyewear... there are many ways to integrate 3D functionality based on the pros and cons offered by LCOS/DLP etc. that have not been fully explored.

Now, if you *do* stack two conventional 2D projectors on your own, than naturally that would limit you to passive goggles of some kind as your only real option since it would be almost impossible to try to sync the refresh of two independent machines to do sequential left/right.

But when we talk about single-box 3D projectors that are designed from the ground-up as 3D devices, the fact that they are single-box doesn't indicate anything about the technology or 3D methodology used.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #17 of 48 Old 02-03-2010, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

... BTW, the Real3D projectors in movie theaters are also single lens. In fact, they only have one light engine! They work by *alternating* a polarizing filter for each left/right/left/right transition....

As far as I know, this applies to the DLP based projectors. However many 4K Sony SXRD projector installations use a dual lens adapter using always-on 2K over/under regions of the 4K chip. That's how I saw Avatar.
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post #18 of 48 Old 02-03-2010, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I spoke with the rep at CES and it is a silver screen. The projector is also a dual engine single lens, as you will see from the link above. i did not get into the glasses and I guess I should have. The 3D glasses did not appear special. But I guess they could have been active with a small watch battery. I do not recall them being extra bulky..but I will admit my mind was more on getting them on to see the picture, which was pretty good.
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post #19 of 48 Old 07-19-2010, 04:28 PM
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10,000 dollars?

They do know that we can get a 720p 3D Projector for 600 dollars, right?

They are insane.

Pass.
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post #20 of 48 Old 07-19-2010, 07:14 PM
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10,000 dollars?

They do know that we can get a 720p 3D Projector for 600 dollars, right?

They are insane.

Pass.

yeah, and 720p projectors with crappy contrast and screen-door and horrible rainbows can be had in 2D for even cheaper.

What's your point? That PJ you mention is the opposite of a videophile machine... and just happens to put checkerboard 3D on board for the ride.

A high contrast, high brightness LCOS machine using passive 3D uses 3 LCOS chips since it has dual light-engines and is delivering as much of a no-compromise 3D solution as is possible at this time. Leaving the issue of 3D asside, the price difference is justified based on image quality differences alone.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #21 of 48 Old 07-20-2010, 01:21 PM
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I am agreeing with David again. In a dual projector system the filter doesn`t necessarily have to be put in front of the lens. It, for example, could be right after the bulb.

There will be lots of 1080p 3D projectors at Cedia with MSRPs between $6K and $12K plus several big boy versions from about $65K to $175K and one big boy 2 projector Infitec system at a little under $80K. I can`t say more about several of these because I am under a NDA or two or three.

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post #22 of 48 Old 07-20-2010, 01:33 PM
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I can`t say more about several of these because I am under a NDA or two or three.



I can't wait to hear about what you can't talk about!

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #23 of 48 Old 07-20-2010, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I am agreeing with David again. In a dual projector system the filter doesn`t necessarily have to be put in front of the lens. It, for example, could be right after the bulb.
there will be lots of 1080p 3D projectors at Cedia with MSRPs between $6K and $12K plus several big boy versions from about $65K to $175K and one big boy 2 projector Infitec system at a little under $80K. I can`t say more about several of these because I am under a NDA or two or three.

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I can't wait to hear about what you can't talk about!

I can't wait to SEE what he can't talk about.


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post #24 of 48 Old 07-20-2010, 06:44 PM
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It will all be on the Cedia floor or shown near Cedia in one of the connected hotels. If you are going to cedia, drop by the Cedia thread on the 420K forum and sign up from our annual NON OFFICIAL AVS forum member dinners.

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post #25 of 48 Old 07-20-2010, 07:42 PM
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bummer about the polarized glasses- i would prefer shutter. any news if these projectors can hook up to a PC and output 1080p60 per eye- none of this half rez stuff? or are these just more of the HDMI 1.4a tech that cant output a true 1080p for gaming?

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post #26 of 48 Old 07-21-2010, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
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bummer about the polarized glasses- i would prefer shutter. any news if these projectors can hook up to a PC and output 1080p60 per eye- none of this half rez stuff? or are these just more of the HDMI 1.4a tech that cant output a true 1080p for gaming?

Have you ready any of this thread?

The LG is a full 1920 x 1080p per eye passive.

There's also a prototype Sony 3D PJ that's been floating around Europe that's also 1080p per eye but apparently using active eyewear.

We're not talking about wobble/checkerboard 3D PJs in this thread really... discussion is mostly about the (yet to be released) full 1080p HT-oriented high-end 3D projection hardware.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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The sony is shutter glass. Almost everything is. The Sim2 dual stack and the Barco is Infitec. The LG is the only one I have heard about that is polarization.

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post #28 of 48 Old 07-22-2010, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

Have you ready any of this thread?

The LG is a full 1920 x 1080p per eye passive.

There's also a prototype Sony 3D PJ that's been floating around Europe that's also 1080p per eye but apparently using active eyewear.

We're not talking about wobble/checkerboard 3D PJs in this thread really... discussion is mostly about the (yet to be released) full 1080p HT-oriented high-end 3D projection hardware.

wow you are nice.

i just wanted to know if it can do 1080p hooked up to a computer. all the new 3d displays are advertised as true HD but thats only true for 3d blue ray. hook them up to a HTPC and you get half rez.

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post #29 of 48 Old 07-23-2010, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
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i just wanted to know if it can do 1080p hooked up to a computer. all the new 3d displays are advertised as true HD but thats only true for 3d blue ray. hook them up to a HTPC and you get half rez.

You only get out what you put in. If an HTPC/computer is only outputting half-res 3D, that's all you'll get on the display side. That's not a fault of the 3D display...it's the source signal.

Various displays might deal slightly differently with 3D that's not full HD (like converting to sequential and/or upscaling each eye) but the result won't ever be as transparent as native dual 1080p sequential from the source. Just like upconverting SD to HD isn't the same as native HD.

The solution is to put pressure on gaming hardware/software to provide full 1920 x 1080p sequential 3D output via PC cards rather than half-res.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #30 of 48 Old 07-23-2010, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

You only get out what you put in. If an HTPC/computer is only outputting half-res 3D, that's all you'll get on the display side. That's not a fault of the 3D display...it's the source signal.

Various displays might deal slightly differently with 3D that's not full HD (like converting to sequential and/or upscaling each eye) but the result won't ever be as transparent as native dual 1080p sequential from the source. Just like upconverting SD to HD isn't the same as native HD.

The solution is to put pressure on gaming hardware/software to provide full 1920 x 1080p sequential 3D output via PC cards rather than half-res.

i dont want to get into an argument with you- but your opinion does not match my experience. pc can output 1080p60 no problem. there are many smaller LCD 3d monitors that have dual DVI and are run at 1080p120 in 3d. surprisingly they get the same frame rates as i do with 1080p checkerboard! i have done allot of benchmark testing and comparison with other 3d vision users as a hobby.

I think the conversion to checkerboard happens after the scene is already rendered in the engine- at the driver level. but i am not sure how the engineers do it.

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