Update: Mits 3DC-1000 3D Converter Box Will NOT Work on Samsung DLPs! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 338 Old 03-28-2010, 06:57 AM
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I am still confused about DLP Link and front projectors. Will any projector that is supposed to work with Nvidia 3D Vision, for example, by default also send the white frame necessary for DLP Link?

I'm looking at 3D support from 4 different areas:

1) PC Gaming
2) BD
3) DirecTV
4) PS3 Gaming

With a HTPC and Nvidia 3D vision (and the necessary emitter), I'm covered for at least the first 2. I may be covered for #3 if the 3DC-1000 add-on box that Mits is selling will also work with front projectors (After numerous searches, I can't find anything about the 3DC-1000 supporting front projectors). I guess #4 is the big one, since we don't know if PS3 will support "checkerboard" or not.

I'm going to be buying all new equipment so I'm trying to figure out if the projector that will do all of this even exists?

Matt
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post #92 of 338 Old 03-28-2010, 07:39 AM
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[quote=crashprime;18388791]
What I was asking was, is this technology inherent to all front and rear projection units powered by Texas Instrument's DLP technology when marketed as "3D Ready"? If it isn't, it would be nice to find out what RPTV's support DLP Link. I understand front projection can also support it, but my question was specifically about RPTV's.
QUOTE]

AFAIK the brief white flash between frames is inherrent in the DLP technology and I beleive it is there in orderto insure that no blurry content is displayed durng the time that it takes for the DLP chip to shift it's mirrors and therefore all DLP projectors emit the flash. I don't think Mits or other vendors offering DLP systems ever considerd the white flash as a feature and if TI figured out a way to eliminate it they might it may go away in future DLP systems
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post #93 of 338 Old 03-29-2010, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Email reply from Mits:

Lee:

When the Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 is converting a 3D source signal to the Checkerboard 3D signal as required by a Mitsubishi 3D DLP Home Cinema TV, the output signal is always 1920 x 1080 @ 60p Checkerboard 3D format. When the 3DC-1000 is receiving a 2D signal, it passes the signal through unaltered as long as that signal is compatible with our TV.

Regards,
Nick
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post #94 of 338 Old 03-29-2010, 06:53 PM
 
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can My Samung series 6 plasma do 3D with a converter box here the model number
Series 6 50inch (PS50B650) thanks
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post #95 of 338 Old 03-29-2010, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdblu View Post

can My Samung series 6 plasma do 3D with a converter box here the model number
Series 6 50inch (PS50B650) thanks

Unfortunately not. It's not a 3DTV converter. It's a 3D adapter for DLP 3D ready RPTVs from Mits and Samsung made 2007 and later.
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post #96 of 338 Old 03-29-2010, 09:11 PM
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Checkerboard 1920x1080 60p.

I tried finding the answer myself but its confusing; What are the Plasma / LCD's claiming "full hd" using in comparison to this?

Is FullHD considered "Frame Sequential 1920x1080 120p"? 60fps per eye for a total of 120fps?

Is this mitsu method 30fps per eye for a total of 60fps?

Basically just wondering if this is half resolution and half refresh rate or just half res.
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post #97 of 338 Old 03-29-2010, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crashprime View Post

Checkerboard 1920x1080 60p.

I tried finding the answer myself but its confusing; What are the Plasma / LCD's claiming "full hd" using in comparison to this?

Is FullHD considered "Frame Sequential 1920x1080 120p"? 60fps per eye for a total of 120fps?

The new LCD and PDP 3DTVs when fed a 3D BD will give Full HD (1920x1080) per eye using the Frame Sequential 3D format. They are running at 60 FPS per second per eye, 120 total (120hz).

Quote:


Is this mitsu method 30fps per eye for a total of 60fps?

No - DLP 3D ready RPTVs also run at 60 FPS per eye 120 total (120Hz). But they use the 3D format called Checkerboard (only 3D format they can use) which gives Half HD per eye:

http://dlp.com/downloads/DLP%203D%20...Technology.pdf

Quote:


Basically just wondering if this is half resolution and half refresh rate or just half res.

Just half res.
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post #98 of 338 Old 03-29-2010, 09:53 PM
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perfect explanation as usual lee! thanks.
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post #99 of 338 Old 03-29-2010, 10:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Unfortunately not. It's not a 3DTV converter. It's a 3D adapter for DLP 3D ready RPTVs from Mits and Samsung made 2007 and later.

Thanks you, I didn't think it would do it. But I am looking for a New projector so so I will wait for 3d there.
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post #100 of 338 Old 03-29-2010, 11:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crashprime View Post

perfect explanation as usual lee! thanks.

My pleasure.
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post #101 of 338 Old 03-30-2010, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Email reply from Mits:

Lee:

When the Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 is converting a 3D source signal to the Checkerboard 3D signal as required by a Mitsubishi 3D DLP Home Cinema TV, the output signal is always 1920 x 1080 @ 60p Checkerboard 3D format. When the 3DC-1000 is receiving a 2D signal, it passes the signal through unaltered as long as that signal is compatible with our TV.

Regards,
Nick


Well, at least that saves me the $100 I was going to spend on the converter.

Seriously though, with the quality of the 3D I've been seeing so far on my old-school Sammy plamsa, it wouldn't have been worth it anyway. That's okay; it's still a darn find 2D tv. And now I have an excuse to save for a current generation display!

Thanks for the efforts, Lee.
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post #102 of 338 Old 03-30-2010, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Email reply from Mits:

Lee:

When the Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 is converting a 3D source signal to the Checkerboard 3D signal as required by a Mitsubishi 3D DLP Home Cinema TV, the output signal is always 1920 x 1080 @ 60p Checkerboard 3D format. When the 3DC-1000 is receiving a 2D signal, it passes the signal through unaltered as long as that signal is compatible with our TV.

Regards,
Nick

Makes perfect sense, as with my 3D Vision setup and Samsung HL61A750 LED DLP, I have to use 1:1 pixel mapping (basically 1920x1080) res, I can't use 24p, and additionally if I try to use a larger color gamut than RGB it won't even give me the choice for 3D.

Matt
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post #103 of 338 Old 03-30-2010, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

Makes perfect sense, as with my 3D Vision setup and Samsung HL61A750 LED DLP, I have to use 1:1 pixel mapping (basically 1920x1080) res, I can't use 24p, and additionally if I try to use a larger color gamut than RGB it won't even give me the choice for 3D.

I've noticed this also. You must set the pixel format to RGB Full, or else the 3D option isn't available. It took me a while to figure that part out a few months ago. Drove me nuts.

Also, try making a custom resolution to reduce overscan, 1872x1056 works great for me.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #104 of 338 Old 03-30-2010, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post

I've noticed this also. You must set the pixel format to RGB Full, or else the 3D option isn't available. It took me a while to figure that part out a few months ago. Drove me nuts.

Also, try making a custom resolution to reduce overscan, 1872x1056 works great for me.

Nvidia supports a custom resolution now that negates the overscan in-game, but leaves black bars on all sides for me. I don't remember off the top of my head what it is, but it preserves 1:1. I didn't think just any custom res would do that, so I'll have to try. I was impressed that they added that support for Samsung DLP even though they don't officially support it. They also fixed the red tint issue months ago. However, they also let driver support of 2008 LED models lapse for about 6-8 months when they broke something and it took them that long to acknowledge and fix.

Matt
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post #105 of 338 Old 03-30-2010, 09:45 AM
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If you are underscanning the output to your TV as indicated by the black bars all the around and the TV has overscanned disabled then you certainly don't even have the appearance of 1:1 pixel mapping much less true 1:1 pixel mapping.
Since it appears that you have oversscanning turned off on the TV if you stop undercanning the output by not sending it 1920x1080 content from a 1920x1080 desktop then you can obtain true 1:1 pixel mapping/
Read through the PC chapter again in your Samsung user's manual for the details on how to do this.
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post #106 of 338 Old 03-30-2010, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

Nvidia supports a custom resolution now that negates the overscan in-game, but leaves black bars on all sides for me. I don't remember off the top of my head what it is, but it preserves 1:1. I didn't think just any custom res would do that, so I'll have to try. I was impressed that they added that support for Samsung DLP even though they don't officially support it. They also fixed the red tint issue months ago. However, they also let driver support of 2008 LED models lapse for about 6-8 months when they broke something and it took them that long to acknowledge and fix.

What red tint issue did they fix?

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #107 of 338 Old 03-30-2010, 01:47 PM
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Does anyone know if the Samsung SG-P2100PT glasses will work with the Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 converter? This will be through a Samsung DLP RPTV.
Thanks.
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post #108 of 338 Old 03-30-2010, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcdon7230 View Post

Does anyone know if the Samsung SG-P2100PT glasses will work with the Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 converter? This will be through a Samsung DLP RPTV.
Thanks.

Are you talking about the brand new Samsung SSG-2100AB glasses? I can't find anything on that number - you sure you have the right number?

What is the model number of your Samsung RPTV?
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post #109 of 338 Old 03-30-2010, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

If you are underscanning the output to your TV as indicated by the black bars all the around and the TV has overscanned disabled then you certainly don't even have the appearance of 1:1 pixel mapping much less true 1:1 pixel mapping.
Since it appears that you have oversscanning turned off on the TV if you stop undercanning the output by not sending it 1920x1080 content from a 1920x1080 desktop then you can obtain true 1:1 pixel mapping/
Read through the PC chapter again in your Samsung user's manual for the details on how to do this.

All I can tell you is that this is a specific fix that Nvidia did for Samsung DLP owners a few months back--I'm not sure what trick they are using but if it wasn't 1:1, the 3D effect wouldn't work. There is more discussion about this in the Nvidia 3D Vision forum.

Matt
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post #110 of 338 Old 03-30-2010, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post

What red tint issue did they fix?

You'd know it if you saw it--until they fixed this issue at the driver level, all Samsung DLPs had a red tint on images with 3D Vision. Maybe they had it fixed before you got your setup. This was fixed probably close to a year ago?

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post #111 of 338 Old 03-30-2010, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Are you talking about the brand new Samsung SSG-2100AB glasses? I can't find anything on that number - you sure you have the right number?

What is the model number of your Samsung RPTV?

Yes, the new glasses that come with the "3D starter kit". My DLP is the HL61A750.
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post #112 of 338 Old 03-30-2010, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcdon7230 View Post

Yes, the new glasses that come with the "3D starter kit". My DLP is the HL61A750.

No - they won't work. You need DLP-Link glasses like the X102's from XpanD

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1238993
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post #113 of 338 Old 03-30-2010, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

You'd know it if you saw it--until they fixed this issue at the driver level, all Samsung DLPs had a red tint on images with 3D Vision. Maybe they had it fixed before you got your setup. This was fixed probably close to a year ago?

I have an ATI and use the iz3D drivers. I mentioned this in another thread, but when I turn on 3D mode on the Samsung, even just having the desktop on (3D drivers not turned on), the whole screen gets a red tint.

Does your Sammy do that with an nvidia card?

Basically, set your resolution to 1080p60, and turn 3D mode on (Mode 1 or Mode 2, doesn't make a difference). Does your desktop get a red tint?

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #114 of 338 Old 03-30-2010, 06:00 PM
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Did anyone find out how many imputs the 3DC-1000 has?
Thank you
Mark
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post #115 of 338 Old 03-30-2010, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

No - they won't work. You need DLP-Link glasses like the X102's from XpanD

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1238993

Will the X102's still need the 3Dc-1000 emitter or will they work off the DLP "flash" through a 3d BluRay player?
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post #116 of 338 Old 03-30-2010, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcdon7230 View Post

Will the X102's still need the 3Dc-1000 emitter or will they work off the DLP "flash" through a 3d BluRay player?

The 3DC-1000 is a 3D format converter. Converts all 3D formats (3D BD, 3D CBL & 3D SAT) to checkerboard which is the only 3d format a DLP 3D ready RPTV can accept as an input signal. Nothing to do with the glasses.

The XpanD X102 DLP-Link glasses are designed to work with FPTV and RPTV's that have this feature. Most do.

DLP-Link glasses work off the "flash" provided by the TV. There is also a VESA port on the back of the TV for the attachment of an emitter. See my BUYERS GUIDE for 3DTVs and 3D glasses in this forum - sticky - to get an idea what is coming.
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post #117 of 338 Old 03-31-2010, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post

I have an ATI and use the iz3D drivers. I mentioned this in another thread, but when I turn on 3D mode on the Samsung, even just having the desktop on (3D drivers not turned on), the whole screen gets a red tint.

Does your Sammy do that with an nvidia card?

Basically, set your resolution to 1080p60, and turn 3D mode on (Mode 1 or Mode 2, doesn't make a difference). Does your desktop get a red tint?

I'm guessing the ATI/iz3D combo never corrected this:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s...22&hl=red+tint
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=88884
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s...18&hl=red+tint

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post #118 of 338 Old 03-31-2010, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

The 3DC-1000 is a 3D format converter. Converts all 3D formats (3D BD, 3D CBL & 3D SAT) to checkerboard which is the only 3d format a DLP 3D ready RPTV can accept as an input signal. Nothing to do with the glasses.

The XpanD X102 DLP-Link glasses are designed to work with FPTV and RPTV's that have this feature. Most do.

DLP-Link glasses work off the "flash" provided by the TV. There is also a VESA port on the back of the TV for the attachment of an emitter. See my BUYERS GUIDE for 3DTVs and 3D glasses in this forum - sticky - to get an idea what is coming.

Thank you for your prompt reply.

So what's the best approach for an owner of a Samsung DLP with a VESA port? Buy a 3D BluRay player and wait for the 3DC-1000 emitter....or buy the X-panD DLP-link glasses now (when they are back in stock).
And finally, if the choice is the emitter....what glasses work best with it? Or is that still up to speculation, as so many things are with 3D.
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post #119 of 338 Old 03-31-2010, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcdon7230 View Post

Thank you for your prompt reply.

So what's the best approach for an owner of a Samsung DLP with a VESA port? Buy a 3D BluRay player and wait for the 3DC-1000 emitter....or buy the X-panD DLP-link glasses now (when they are back in stock).
And finally, if the choice is the emitter....what glasses work best with it? Or is that still up to speculation, as so many things are with 3D.

As Lee already stated, the 3DC-1000 is not an emitter. It is a format converter. It is designed to take output from a 3D Blu-ray player and convert it into 1080p checkerboard @ 60 Hz required by old-school "3D-ready DLP RPTVs". That's it, nothing more.

You will still need either an external emitter and glasses package, like this, or alternately just DLP-link glasses like this (which don't require an emitter). Your DLP RPTV should support either approach.
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post #120 of 338 Old 03-31-2010, 07:30 AM
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Hmm, I think this is a problem for both ATI and iz3D to work on, since I see the red tint even when the iz3D drivers are uninstalled. Going to forward those links to ATI and iz3d.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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