Any 3D projectors coming? - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 378 Old 07-21-2010, 06:37 PM
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thank-you so much for this.

For those who have been (unnecessarily) fearful that 3D capability would spell the end of quality 2D performance in projection:

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"Just came back from an awesome afternoon with Sonys new 3D-projector!

The Japansese have so far built two pre-samples that they tour around the world and we in Sweden are clearly prioritized. The official presentation is not planned until IFA this fall, which gives an indication on how unique this opportunity is.

The pre-sample is built upon the VW85, but in order to handle the new demand on faster refresh rates for displaying 3D pictures it sports brand new SXRD panels fresh from Sonys lab. Together with the bravia engine the signal is driven in 240 Hz for an as flicker free picture as possible. This machine is built on active shutter glasses (just like the TV's) where you sync on a frequency between the image signal and the spectacles. The highest recording frequency we use is 60 Hz which makes 120 Hz (2x60Hz) a minimum to be able to show 3D with this kind of material. The drawback with 120 Hz is that it is difficult for the glasses to shift without revealing trailing artifacts from the previous image. This is eliminated with 240 Hz technology and the idea is that you should get less flickering and judder during fast motion. The drawback is that you loose more light. The Sony technician I spoke to was talking about the option available to the consumer to go into the menu and choose 120 Hz (more light for material with little motion) or 240 Hz (less judder for fast moving material like sports). This is completely unique for Sony as of today and therefore worth a few extra lines to point out. If they only will get is as good in reality as in theory it will be awesome!

Besides the new panels they have also (as expected) boosted the brightness, which is necessary to compensate for the light loss you get with the glasses. In 2D, the power of this machine is insane! Without any measurements I would estimate we had about 30-40 fL on a Studiotek 130 G3. Respect! We also tested a few different screens; but ST 130 was completely superior in all aspects. But then we ran in a completely dark room with black walls, ceiling and floor. Well, there was power at least, and my impression was that it was much brighter than the VW85. How much the black level was suffering was hard to say without a point of reference, but to me it was nothing I noticed. On the contrary, my impression was that it had a higher contrast than its predecessor.

Enough about the projector. There will for sure be an opportunity to go through in more detail in it's own thread when we get a green light to make that info official. In this thread we continue with the 3D.

The 3D picture with active glasses is (as I have said before) different compared to what you get at the cinema with passive glasses. The effects are much greater and the depth more pronounced with active. It looked just like the Panasonic screen but insanely more impressive. The difference in impact watching 3D this way was is as big compared to regular projection as is between watching a movie on a 100' screen compared to a 42' TV. This is the way to experience it! The demo itself was very convincing and I have never seen 3D any better!

Now to perhaps the most interesting of all
The material we watched was really good with very little animated clips and gimmicky effects. Instead, we watched ordinary soccer (Barca of course ) and a little American football mixed with nature films. In other words, exactly the type of content you will have access to and watch when the content will increase with rising demand. Of course they had a few gaming demo's that were animated, but instead of frowning I sat there with a silly expression when MotorStorm rocked the screen and when the car hovered in mid air during the big jumps, you could hear the oohs and aahs from us in the audience. There's no doubt that the gaming industry will drive this 3D boom, but if we can get normal material in the form of sport, nature films and documentaries in 3D, as the demo material indicated, together with all the films that are shown in 3D today, I have no doubt that it will be a roaring success.

The Sony simply rocked. But the coolest thing was that it looked really, really good on ordinary 2D Transformers 2. Compared to that the 3D of course looked a bit dark and dull. But the 3D picture doesn't get any worse just because the 2D was amongst the best I have ever seen.

But we will take the projector in the coming projector thread as said previously"


1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #362 of 378 Old 07-24-2010, 12:43 AM
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I have to admit. At this point I am feeling very beat up. I'm out quite a bit of cash with nothing to show for it.

Power DVD 10 Mark II a joke for me so far with G45 graphics.

Total Media seems like it should be working. But I am getting what seems like no DLP-LINK sync. Looks more or less the same with or without the glasses on. (like crap) It does seem like the white flash goes away, but hard to really tell.

I guess I can try a different graphics card. I should not have to buy 3D Vision to get this to work as I want to use DLP-Link glasses.

Right now, I am edging closer to giving up.....

Have I posted lately how much I truly hate computers.
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post #363 of 378 Old 07-24-2010, 07:06 AM
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I am not surprised that G45 graphics are not providing acceptable support for outputting checkerboard format using PDVD10 II.
I suggest an Nvidia 240 or 3xx or 4xx card since they have hardware accelration spport for the decoding of MVR encoded 3D BR disks for use by your 3D player software.
You do not need 3D vision because they do not support DLP-Link.
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post #364 of 378 Old 07-24-2010, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

I am not surprised that G45 graphics are not providing acceptable support for outputting checkerboard format using PDVD10 II.
I suggest an Nvidia 240 or 3xx or 4xx card since they have hardware accelration spport for the decoding of MVR encoded 3D BR disks for use by your 3D player software.
You do not need 3D vision because they do not support DLP-Link.

It's 120hz sequential, not checkerboard in my case. 3D Vision should work still It's the projector that provides the DLP link anytime it's in 3D.

The more I think about the image, the more it looks like the TMT software is putting out analgyph. It does have the option for 120hz sequential which of course I have checked. These player software's should contain a 3D test to help diagnose things or something maybe.

Everything meets the specs reqired here. I may give 3D vision a try. It almost seems like I need a specific monitor driver perhaps? It's running on the generic microsoft PnP. The disk that came with the Optoma did not seem to contain any drives.

Right now, either the DLP Link glasses are not working, or the softwares are not outputting correctly. Why is the question.

Power DVD clearly error stating I do not have a 3D display. It's almost like I don't have something loaded I need. But then again TMT acts like everythings working. If I set the windows resolution to 720p at 120hz, I can tell the white flash is being provided, it actually looks like the glasses are blanking that out. Hard to say, when I don't have any experience with this stuff. I see two images, the glasses darken everything like they are supposed to, but really aside from brightness I do not see a difference with or without them on.
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post #365 of 378 Old 07-24-2010, 08:44 AM
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Well what do you know...

I did not test this last night. But TMT is actually outputting Analglyph. I ust put on some red and green glasses and viola. Good for analglyph quality 3D on Cloudy with a chance of Meatballs. My saga gets weirder and weirder. here.
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post #366 of 378 Old 07-24-2010, 09:07 AM
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AFAIK 3D vision outputs 720p/60 frame squential content not 720p/120 frame sequential and this is also what your Projector can accept sp try using it instead.
I don't know how PDVD10 II converts 1080p 3D Blu-ray content to 720p content.
DLP-link is apparntly not working since it is not able to receive what you are sending.
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post #367 of 378 Old 07-24-2010, 10:48 AM
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Yep. I know why it (TMT) is not working. It's because all I am getting is analglyph at 720p 120hz.

3D vision can't do 120hz at all? I'm not sure that's true. People are using it with similar 120hz frame seqential projectors.

By all accounts, this should be working. I really feel I have not loaded some needed component or something. I don't game. Maybe it's something that gets loaded by gamers regularly.
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post #368 of 378 Old 07-24-2010, 12:17 PM
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Analglyph is a way to display faux 3D on a 2D display.
It is true that both NIVIa and ATI graphics cards can output 720p/120Hz content.
However, AFAIK your PJ can not accept it basd on the specs I saw on the PJ.
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post #369 of 378 Old 07-24-2010, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Analglyph is a way to display faux 3D on a 2D display.
It is true that both NIVIa and ATI graphics cards can output 720p/120Hz content.
However, AFAIK your PJ can not accept it basd on the specs I saw on the PJ.

I don't know what specs your reading.

The GT700 is a fully capable 3D ready 720p projector, it abosultely takes 720p at 120hz. It takes it both over the VGA input and HDMI.

I have my windows screen rez set this way and the modes come up, I didn't have to custom them in there or anything.

I think what I am reading here is... 120hz frame sequential is only supported on 3D Vision.... UUUHHHGGG

I guess I will order it.

Note: iZ3D just makes the two 3D Blu-ray software players I have not run at all. iZ3D has a stereo driver for 120hz 3D ready DLP projos.
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post #370 of 378 Old 07-24-2010, 07:42 PM
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where do you guys get the synch out for the polarized glasses with an htpc when using non nvidia glasses?
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post #371 of 378 Old 07-24-2010, 09:39 PM
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post #372 of 378 Old 07-26-2010, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

where do you guys get the synch out for the polarized glasses with an htpc when using non nvidia glasses?


The only way I know of is to use a DLP display. They give the sync for DLP-LINK when ever 3D mode on the display is engaged.
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post #373 of 378 Old 07-26-2010, 08:12 AM
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Pretty sure, the final disposition is this on my HTPC woes.

If you want to do 120hz sequential 3D, they only way is to use Nvidia 3D vision.

The requirements are uncleare as there are other types of 3D that are supported without it, but not 120hz field sequential.
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post #374 of 378 Old 07-26-2010, 10:48 AM
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That would have been my guess anyway. At least it will work on 200 series cards. nVidia says a GeForce GTX 260 is the min for 3D Bluray playback. I see one for a hundred bucks on ebay. A nice investment in any case I think. You can try out World of Warcraft in 3D then.
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post #375 of 378 Old 07-26-2010, 12:15 PM
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The 260 does not have hardware acceleration support for the decoding of 3D MVC formatted 3D BR disks only the 240 chip and 3xx and 4xx chips have this support.
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post #376 of 378 Old 07-26-2010, 12:20 PM
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It's confusing because they can claim 3D support without it because they can do the Checkerboard DLP without 3D Vision.

Scored a prety darn good deal on 470 through Dell of all places. I ordered 3D Vision from Tiger Direct.

I see 3D Vision lists the GT720, hopefully I can get it to work with the GT700 OK enough. All the EDID really reads back is Optoma, no model listed.

So I plod on with the project here.
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post #377 of 378 Old 07-27-2010, 09:51 AM
 
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Runco's New Projectors Are 3D-Ready

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Runco's SC-50d and SC-60d are 3D-ready and will support multiple formats, including Active3D using active-shutter glasses or passive-glassed-based solutions, the company said.

Quote:


Runco's Signature Cinema SC-50d and SC-60d will be available in fall of 2010 with a suggested retail of $88,995 and $98,995, respectively. Optional lens, CineWide, CineWide with AutoScope, and 3D accessories are additional costs.

http://www.twice.com/article/455264-...e_3D_Ready.php
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post #378 of 378 Old 07-27-2010, 10:29 AM
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Man, I wish I lived in that world.
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