Any 3D projectors coming? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 378 Old 03-16-2010, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Forget all this 55" and even 65" pdp or LCD flat panels, where are the 3D front projectors? I like the theater feel and bigger is better expecially for that all imersive 3D experience. So any projector news?
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post #2 of 378 Old 03-16-2010, 01:04 PM
 
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Outside of the LG CF3D . . . . nope
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post #3 of 378 Old 03-16-2010, 02:21 PM
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Optoma HD66 and Acer H5360 for 3D 720p PJs. Others like the Viewsonic 6210 for XGA (1024x768) and many more with similar specs. These are available now.
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post #4 of 378 Old 03-17-2010, 08:36 AM
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Actually, quite a few, but they are all either XGA or 720p DLP.. Fortunately most are around $700-$1000.. so not to expensive to get in the door. unfortunately, no 1080p under $6K for a while.
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post #5 of 378 Old 03-17-2010, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainier2 View Post

Optoma HD66 and Acer H5360 for 3D 720p PJs. Others like the Viewsonic 6210 for XGA (1024x768) and many more with similar specs. These are available now.


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Originally Posted by TheBluePill View Post

Actually, quite a few, but they are all either XGA or 720p DLP.. Fortunately most are around $700-$1000.. so not to expensive to get in the door. unfortunately, no 1080p under $6K for a while.

And also unfortunately only compatible for playing 3D games and computer graphics - not with the new 3D standards for videos from Blu-ray 3D, or 3D broadcasts via satellite or cable.

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post #6 of 378 Old 03-17-2010, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

And also unfortunately only compatible for playing 3D games and computer graphics - not with the new 3D standards for videos from Blu-ray 3D, or 3D broadcasts via satellite or cable.

So there is no option on Bluray 3D players to send 720p 3D? Bummer if so for sure. The optoma seems to have the correct scheme, just 720p only.
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post #7 of 378 Old 03-17-2010, 11:56 AM
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And also unfortunately only compatible for playing 3D games and computer graphics - not with the new 3D standards for videos from Blu-ray 3D, or 3D broadcasts via satellite or cable.

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Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

So there is no option on Bluray 3D players to send 720p 3D? Bummer if so for sure. The optoma seems to have the correct scheme, just 720p only.

Some DLP projectors can currently be made to work with SD 3D video content (e.g. field sequential and SENSIO DVDs), but you need to use a HTPC (rather than a standalone DVD player), a 3D-capable graphics card (e.g. nVidia) and appropriate software (e.g. Stereoscopic Player).

Here is a list of 3D compatible projectors.

There should be no reason why 3D Blu-rays could not be made to work using the same overall configuration. That is, a HTPC with a Blu-ray drive, an appropriate graphics card, and software. There may not be an out-of-the-box solution out there right now, but I'm confident that it's doable.
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post #8 of 378 Old 03-17-2010, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Outside of the LG CF3D . . . . nope

To be exact, LG is the only projector that's currently been *announced*.

It is expected that CEDIA this year will showcase more 3D projectors from many of our familiar companies. Projection companies are always slow to brag about the improvements of their planned products because they don't want to undercut interest in sales of their current gear. What will likely happen is that right before new gear is about to be released, we'll suddently hear about 3D compatibility.

3D does pose the challenge to projectors given its brightness needs... so unlike many direct-views that really just needed to be tweaked to provide clean left/right frame transitions at 120 or 240Hz, projectors may need a little more design change to get out the greater brightness in 3D mode.

Rest assured they're coming.

It's one of the reasons I went with a used 2D PJ now since I know I'll be wanting to buy a 3D projector as soon as they are cost effective.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #9 of 378 Old 03-17-2010, 02:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

To be exact, LG is the only projector that's currently been *announced*.

It is expected that CEDIA this year will showcase more 3D projectors from many of our familiar companies. Projection companies are always slow to brag about the improvements of their planned products because they don't want to undercut interest in sales of their current gear. What will likely happen is that right before new gear is about to be released, we'll suddently hear about 3D compatibility.

3D does pose the challenge to projectors given its brightness needs... so unlike many direct-views that really just needed to be tweaked to provide clean left/right frame transitions at 120 or 240Hz, projectors may need a little more design change to get out the greater brightness in 3D mode.

Rest assured they're coming.

It's one of the reasons I went with a used 2D PJ now since I know I'll be wanting to buy a 3D projector as soon as they are cost effective.

Just answering the mans question:

Quote:


So any projector news?

Nope.
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post #10 of 378 Old 03-17-2010, 02:32 PM
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Lee,

I wasn't suggesting you were wrong in what you said. I was simply trying to add more detail to the answer.


1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #11 of 378 Old 03-17-2010, 02:32 PM
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I think a 3D projector will be the way to go, that way you can have a 100" picture. That being said I dont find projectors to be great primary watching tv's, unless you have a dedicated HT...

Aggg, I want to jump on the 3D train badly, but going to force myself to wait for atleast a year when most of the bugs should be worked out....i hope.
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post #12 of 378 Old 03-17-2010, 02:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

Lee,

I wasn't suggesting you were wrong in what you said. I was simply trying to add more detail to the answer.


The problem is - there just isn't any 3D projector news (S3D 1080P).

We have INFOCOMM in early June (may or may not see any 3D PJ news) and CEDIA in late September - over 6 months away.
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post #13 of 378 Old 03-17-2010, 03:32 PM
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Come on CEDIA and bring on the 3D projectors. Plus I can just drive to it
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post #14 of 378 Old 03-17-2010, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

The problem is - there just isn't any 3D projector news (S3D 1080P).

We have INFOCOMM in early June (may or may not see any 3D PJ news) and CEDIA in late September - over 6 months away.

I think that there's no projector news right now because the launch of 3D happened so suddenly. I saw a Panasonic 3D demo at the NAB convention last April, and even after talking to the reps there, I thought it was going to be two or three years before we would see the technology in the home. Right before CES we learned that the major CEMs were coming out with 3D TVs and 3D Blu-ray players this year. I too looked at the projectors at CES, and none of the manufacturers were touting 3D at home. It's like they got caught off guard. So I saw the JVC projector demo and they were showing an expensive 4K projector that could show 2K 3D. For consumer use they were showing the DLA-HD990, that looked great---but no mention of 3D--which seemed lame at the time because 3D was everywhere at CES. I'm pretty sure we'll be seeing a flood of new 3D projectors later this year.
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post #15 of 378 Old 03-17-2010, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fire407 View Post

I think that there's no projector news right now because the launch of 3D happened so suddenly. I saw a Panasonic 3D demo at the NAB convention last April, and even after talking to the reps there, I thought it was going to be two or three years before we would see the technology in the home. Right before CES we learned that the major CEMs were coming out with 3D TVs and 3D Blu-ray players this year. I too looked at the projectors at CES, and none of the manufacturers were touting 3D at home. It's like they got caught off guard. So I saw the JVC projector demo and they were showing an expensive 4K projector that could show 2K 3D. For consumer use they were showing the DLA-HD990, that looked great---but no mention of 3D--which seemed lame at the time because 3D was everywhere at CES. I'm pretty sure we'll be seeing a flood of new 3D projectors later this year.

Yes.

And everyone bear in mind that when it comes to front projectors, the manufacturers typically keep their cards close until the last minute, because they don't want sales to slump of the current gear they have out in the field... lots of inventory to move and they don't want to lose money. The same thing happened with 1080p projectors... most of the 720P projector companies acted like we'd have 720p forever, with really murky, sometimes almost deceivingly negative comments about needing to move to 1080p. Then almost overnight the same manufacturers had 1080p machines for sale.

Expect a lot of 3D projector buz at cedia this year.

Good news is that some of the developing technologies like laser and LED will be well suited to 3D once the brightness issue is worked out.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #16 of 378 Old 03-17-2010, 05:49 PM
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Optoma is making some noise about having a number of 3D projectors available before the end of the first half of this year - some that should be compatible with 3D Blu-ray. Much as I dislike Optoma (bad, bad experience with an H79), I'll be watching their press releases to find out what they're offering.

I see the posts here in this new 3D section. It's pretty easy to spot the early-adopter-cannon-fodder candidates. Believe me, I'm one of them. I'd like to say I'm going to wait for all this to shake out more before I dive in, but I seriously doubt I'll have the resolve to hold out for too long. I'll probably have some sort of 3D solution within the next few months. I'll be shocked if I can hold out for a year.

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post #17 of 378 Old 03-17-2010, 08:14 PM
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Alan also said in the laser-thread that the major manufacturers will pretty much all be touting 3D machines at Cedia. I hope that at least one implimentation really knocks the socks off of the competition... no ghosting, plenty of brightness, etc. can't wait to see what comes...

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #18 of 378 Old 03-17-2010, 08:29 PM
 
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Well, actually it's a *rear* projector, which in theory, means it could be configured for front projection without too much redesign (if the laser light is safe)... I can't wait to see this in action... rear or front projection!

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #20 of 378 Old 03-17-2010, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

Well, actually it's a *rear* projector, which in theory, means it could be configured for front projection without too much redesign (if the laser light is safe)... I can't wait to see this in action... rear or front projection!

I'd wager seeing one is going to be hard to arrange. If this company has any chance, it's going to be in licensing the technology to a bigger company. From what I've read, economy of scale would make it possible for them to create a large display that would be cost competitive with much smaller LCDs and plasmas. What's most troubling is the 1,500:1 contrast. If that's native, it sounds far too low to satisfy serious videophiles.

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post #21 of 378 Old 03-17-2010, 09:33 PM
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One question I have about the HDI display is the chip they're using. It's my understanding it's basically SXRD technology. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) They also claim they can create a frame rate of 1080 fps. I wasn't aware that SXRD could switch that fast.

Despite my reservations and questions, this is a company I've been keeping an eye on for several months. I'd love to see a scrappy upstart company run by a few nerdy guys succeed in today's TV market. And the more I see of shutter glasses, the more I like passive glasses. I'm going to keep an open mind here.

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post #22 of 378 Old 03-18-2010, 07:58 AM
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The only specs I have seen state that it uses LCOS technology, Like the SXRDs did, with a native resolution of 1080p which means 1920x1080 native reslution displayed at 60fps.
If you saw a claim that it is a native resolution display of 1920x1080 at a 1080fps frame rate I certainly would consider it as a typo.
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post #23 of 378 Old 03-18-2010, 09:40 AM
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The resolution is 1920x1080. Both left and right eye images, full resolution, are on the screen at the same time. It uses polarized glasses. One of the inventors says in a video that the display is capable of switching at over 1,000 frames per second. I'll find the link.

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post #24 of 378 Old 03-18-2010, 09:45 AM
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Here it is. It's definitely LCOS.

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post #25 of 378 Old 03-18-2010, 12:02 PM
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Very interesting trechnology and it is possible that the fame rate could be 1080Hz since 1080 is an exact multple of 24, however, only one of the links indicatded that 1080Hz was the frame rate they are currently using.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/12/h...e-new-face-of/

What the propriatary technology is that enables the ability for each eye to have full 1080p resolution from 1080P resoution source without using active glaess is not disclosed but the implemention apparently is not using polarized displays and glases unless it is different implementation of polarization than is in use today.
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post #26 of 378 Old 03-18-2010, 12:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Very interesting trechnology and it is possible that the fame rate could be 1080Hz since 1080 is an exact multple of 24, however, only one of the links indicatded that 1080Hz was the frame rate they are currently using.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/12/h...e-new-face-of/

What the propriatary technology is that enables the ability for each eye to have full 1080p resolution from 1080P resoution source without using active glaess is not disclosed but the implemention apparently is not using polarized displays and glases unless it is different implementation of polarization than is in use today.

They are doing the same thing that IMAX digital does - putting both images on the screen at the same time - no alternating images, which is what shutter glasses use. The polarized glasses block out the respective image giving you 3D
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post #27 of 378 Old 03-18-2010, 12:26 PM
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Then it is not using a new propriatary technology that can send separate 1080p polarized images to both eyes at the same time unless the screen has a resoluton of 3960x1080. or 1920x2260.
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post #28 of 378 Old 03-18-2010, 01:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Then it is not usinga new ropiatary technology and can not be separate 1080ppolarized images to both eyesdisplayed at the same time unless the screen has a resoluton of 3960x1080. or 1920x2260.

Here is how it works - a picture:

http://www.engadget.com/photos/hdis-...-year/#2408096
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post #29 of 378 Old 03-18-2010, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Then it is not usinga new ropiatary technology and can not be separate 1080ppolarized images to both eyesdisplayed at the same time unless the screen has a resoluton of 3960x1080. or 1920x2260.

No, they have two internal engines, think: separate projectors sending light through the same lens. Each engine's light is polarized differently, allowing the polarized glasses to filter out the image of the respective other eye.

Each engine is running at 1920x1080 at 60Hz, and unlike the shutter or single engine systems, each image stays for 1/60th of a second, not 1/120th. This gives you full brightness for each eye.

The two images from the two projectors are projected on top of each other, through the one lens. (EDIT: That is, projected into the same spot, not next to each other, of course)

The single engine polarized projection system run at a double frame rate, and use a "Z-Screen" to alternate the polarity of the light. This means, that each eye only sees a picture for half the time.

E.g. the RealD digital projections in theaters work that way. The projector runs at 144 Hz. The Z-Screen alternates at 72 Hz. Each eye is seeing 72 frames per second, but each frame is only 1/144th second long.
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post #30 of 378 Old 03-18-2010, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Here is how it works - a picture:

http://www.engadget.com/photos/hdis-...-year/#2408096

According to this picture, they use two LCOS imaging chips, each of which displays each of the three RGB images 360 times per second (for a true 360 full fps rate (and 360 refreshes per second for each of the RGB elements, for both left and right eye views). So, it's like DLP, except that the RGB refresh time is so fast that the eye has no chance of seeing color separation artifacts (rainbows). It's not 60fps; it's 360 full color frames per second. That's a multiple of 24 fps film - 15:15 pulldown, unless my math is wrong.

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