3D projector using Infitec method? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 252 Old 12-05-2011, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

I will pay more to not have it made in China. Plus, plan on it's design being stolen and cheaper copies sold on ebay before yours even gets to market. It happens.

There exist both good and crappy factories - so far we seem to have chosen well, as all boards were perfect (except for our own errors made during design phase).
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post #182 of 252 Old 12-05-2011, 12:10 PM
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Any news on the 1080P 120Hz input?
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post #183 of 252 Old 12-06-2011, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

Any news on the 1080P 120Hz input?

I've waited several weeks to get any reply from AMD and Nvidia and there was none. It's unlikely we would have supported any proprietary solution at this time, but at least I wanted to know what would be their requirements.
Anyway, almost certainly first version will not support 120Hz, while later may, using a DisplayPort or frame sequential DVI (without Nvidia's proprietary additions) or something else...
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post #184 of 252 Old 12-07-2011, 06:06 AM
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That's a real shame not to have 1080p 120hz support. This would have limited use for me without it. So I will wait to see if included in a later date.

(I presume your supported formats will be based on 1.4a HDMI spec? And the box will split frame packed 1080/48hz and 720/120hz to frame sequential left and right for the dual projectors? )
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post #185 of 252 Old 12-07-2011, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yunti View Post

That's a real shame not to have 1080p 120hz support. This would have limited use for me without it. So I will wait to see if included in a later date.

(I presume your supported formats will be based on 1.4a HDMI spec? And the box will split frame packed 1080/48hz and 720/120hz to frame sequential left and right for the dual projectors? )

Frame sequential??? oh no.....
Frame parallel in sync would be more what is expected !
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post #186 of 252 Old 12-07-2011, 10:41 AM
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frame sequential DVI would work with either nvidia or ATI. We could then just spoof the driver as a 1080p lcd 3d monitor and it would work just fine.
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post #187 of 252 Old 12-07-2011, 10:43 AM
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And yes, that is very sad news. Polarized with 3rd party drivers is still the only way to game at 1080p. Or stick to a crappy 24 inch monitor.
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post #188 of 252 Old 12-09-2011, 05:31 AM
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Sad to hear there will be no 120Hz solution (at all ?) on the first model.
I'll probably be waiting for the next version, Display Port 1.2 would be ideal for me.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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post #189 of 252 Old 12-11-2011, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jack-bauer View Post


Frame sequential??? oh no.....
Frame parallel in sync would be more what is expected !

Sorry slight slip yes, in parallel in sync -otherwise it wouldn't be much use.

On second thought though if it did split 720p @ 120hz into left and right projectors. That isn't a bad start as this would make (on eg an nvidia card) every game they support work without hacks/workarounds or resorting to 3rd party drivers via nvidia play. (the main downside to that though is that nvidia play doesn't support Multi screen)

Would be nice of course to have 1080p at 120hz but I can see that makes sense not to support it for now as it's not clear the best way for this to be done as it falls outside the HDMI spec.

Will it also convert 720p frame sequential to 720p frame parallel left and right split? Or just frame packed to frame parallel. (this would get round the need for nvidia play and so multiscreens would work) that would be a great addition.
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post #190 of 252 Old 12-12-2011, 04:56 PM
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There is a completely unsatified market for 1080p60 per eye 3D gaming. Do you game on your computer? Would you really be satified with 720p gaming? Most of us wouldn't.
Acer really blew it by putting a dvi port on their 1080P 3D projector, but not enabling 120Hz input on it. I would own one right now if they had. A lot of people would despite less than great reviews.
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post #191 of 252 Old 12-13-2011, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

There is a completely unsatified market for 1080p60 per eye 3D gaming. Do you game on your computer? Would you really be satified with 720p gaming? Most of us wouldn't.

I get what you mean (and privately I agree). We have a big meeting scheduled for next week, I'll see if we can address this.

@yunti: currently the box supports only frame packed 720p to dual outputs; 720p frame sequential would be simple to add (unless there are some yet unknown AMD or Nvidia specifics).
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post #192 of 252 Old 12-14-2011, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

There is a completely unsatified market for 1080p60 per eye 3D gaming. Do you game on your computer? Would you really be satified with 720p gaming? Most of us wouldn't.
Acer really blew it by putting a dvi port on their 1080P 3D projector, but not enabling 120Hz input on it. I would own one right now if they had. A lot of people would despite less than great reviews.

I use currently use 3x acer h5360 projectors for 3d surround gaming which although amazing is active and limited to 720p per screen. This is the most immersive setup available in the consumer space at the moment that just works with most games. (surround on monitors just isn't interesting for me) I would dearly love 1080p at 120hz too and have requested to have it included in Pterodactyl's box in earlier posts. However if it's a definite no go (which would be a real shame) then having a 720p option that converts from frame sequential would still be useful as then we would have a solution that make dual projection work at 720p with any source.

Having that at 1080p and I will put my money down for 3 straight away.

On the acer , definitely dissapointing that it doesn't have DVI-DL looks like projectiondesign's f35 as3d is still the cheapest active option.
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post #193 of 252 Old 12-14-2011, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post


I get what you mean (and privately I agree). We have a big meeting scheduled for next week, I'll see if we can address this.

@yunti: currently the box supports only frame packed 720p to dual outputs; 720p frame sequential would be simple to add (unless there are some yet unknown AMD or Nvidia specifics).

That would be great on both counts. Let's hope your meetings go well.
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post #194 of 252 Old 12-20-2011, 08:02 AM
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Completed the meetings... Shortly, dual-link DVI for gaming, as well as movies, is agreed to be desirable feature. Infitec will supply filters and glasses, the newest generation. From the numbers I've seen, the new optics typically surpasses shutters and polarised in brightness and gamut. They are very optimistic about home cinema and want all aspects to be the best possible (and in addition to brightness may contribute to several additional "best" and "first" features). Forgot to discuss audio.
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post #195 of 252 Old 12-20-2011, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post

Completed the meetings... Shortly, dual-link DVI for gaming, as well as movies, is agreed to be desirable feature. Infitec will supply filters and glasses, the newest generation. From the numbers I've seen, the new optics typically surpasses shutters and polarised in brightness and gamut. They are very optimistic about home cinema and want all aspects to be the best possible (and in addition to brightness may contribute to several additional "best" and "first" features). Forgot to discuss audio.

Woo-hoo!
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post #196 of 252 Old 12-20-2011, 10:29 AM
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Great, now yunti has me dreaming about 3 of these boxes and 6 projectors. 1100 buck projetors are really good quality these days. < 10k for triple 1080p 3D passive.
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post #197 of 252 Old 12-21-2011, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

Great, now yunti has me dreaming about 3 of these boxes and 6 projectors. 1100 buck projetors are really good quality these days. < 10k for triple 1080p 3D passive.

Exactly, and 10-15k for something like that is a mindblowing thought. Its something I have been pushing for, for the last year after getting my triple 3d projector setup. And after realising nvidia (or AMD) doesn't look likely to add support for dual projectors in their drivers then pterodactyl's box could be the best (only) option.

Pterodactyl - very very glad to hear that dvi-dl is agreed as a desirable feature. Hopefully that will progress though to being implemented and we can all form a very eager queque to purchase.
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post #198 of 252 Old 12-22-2011, 12:31 AM
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Now this is interesting: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...cn,3104-4.html

Apparently the new AMD card and drivers will support a 1080p60 frame-packed signal using displayport 1.2 OR 3-Ghz HDMI! Outstanding news!

Any chance the box will be able to supprt either of these Pterodactyl?
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post #199 of 252 Old 12-22-2011, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Chrodarcniss View Post

Now this is interesting: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...cn,3104-4.html

Apparently the new AMD card and drivers will support a 1080p60 frame-packed signal using displayport 1.2 OR 3-Ghz HDMI! Outstanding news!

Any chance the box will be able to supprt either of these Pterodactyl?

Likely - it looks like re-branded dual-link DVI with some new standardized video modes introduced. We might be able to support them with a simple software upgrade at later time, if not already supported from the start.
DisplayPort version = unlikely in near term. Also, so far no customers from other projects have asked for it.
(Usual disclaimers, just my subjective opinion, etc...)
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post #200 of 252 Old 12-23-2011, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post

Likely - it looks like re-branded dual-link DVI with some new standardized video modes introduced. We might be able to support them with a simple software upgrade at later time, if not already supported from the start.
DisplayPort version = unlikely in near term. Also, so far no customers from other projects have asked for it.
(Usual disclaimers, just my subjective opinion, etc...)

Sounds great. Apparently what they call 3-GHz HDMI, means HDMI with 3 GBPS throughput, also known as HDMI running at 300 MHz, which needs a chip that supports that speed. Guess I learned something today

That would be great! One more way to do 1080p60 in 3D without problems with cards manufacturers, but actually supported. Not to mention that 1080p60 frame-packed is theoretically slightly better than 1080p120 frame sequential for use with dual projectors, as there is no time delay between the frames in frame-packed. It is also the default method for 3d blu-rays if memory serves.
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post #201 of 252 Old 12-23-2011, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Chrodarcniss View Post

Not to mention that 1080p60 frame-packed is theoretically slightly better than 1080p120 frame sequential for use with dual projectors, as there is no time delay between the frames in frame-packed. It is also the default method for 3d blu-rays if memory serves.

Good thinking, but current technical implementation/standard is that the delay and structure of data are nearly identical in both cases.
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post #202 of 252 Old 12-23-2011, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Chrodarcniss View Post

Now this is interesting: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...cn,3104-4.html

Apparently the new AMD card and drivers will support a 1080p60 frame-packed signal using displayport 1.2 OR 3-Ghz HDMI! Outstanding news!

Any chance the box will be able to supprt either of these Pterodactyl?

This would be a superb feature to support! Fast Hdmi is the solution many of us have been looking for.
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post #203 of 252 Old 12-23-2011, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by yunti View Post

This would be a superb feature to support! Fast Hdmi is the solution many of us have been looking for.

Definitely! A solution that's actually supported
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post #204 of 252 Old 01-07-2012, 08:01 AM
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Pterodactyl, what do you think of this ?

Do you have any numbers?
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post #205 of 252 Old 01-09-2012, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jack-bauer View Post

Pterodactyl, what do you think of this ?

Do you have any numbers?

I am not completely familiar with all of the systems, but the numbers look realistic.

The efficiency of a system with new spectrum division filters is claimed to be about 25%, for a system with single projector. I don't recall if that was calculated, or measured value. Home systems are planned to contain two projectors; I'm not sure exactly how the efficiency scales up - should be more than twice better, but a factor of 2.53 appears a bit overoptimistic...
Also, requirements upon color correction are supposedly significantly decreased. It is still needed, but should affect overall brightness less.

(BTW I prefer cinemas with Dolby's system, IMHO it looks somehow most natural/pleasing, whatever the numbers say...)
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post #206 of 252 Old 01-10-2012, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post

I am not completely familiar with all of the systems, but the numbers look realistic.

The efficiency of a system with new spectrum division filters is claimed to be about 25%, for a system with single projector. I don't recall if that was calculated, or measured value. Home systems are planned to contain two projectors; I'm not sure exactly how the efficiency scales up - should be more than twice better, but a factor of 2.53 appears a bit overoptimistic...
Also, requirements upon color correction are supposedly significantly decreased. It is still needed, but should affect overall brightness less.

(BTW I prefer cinemas with Dolby's system, IMHO it looks somehow most natural/pleasing, whatever the numbers say...)

In this case, 2.53 is unlikely as the result would be over 50%, which is impossible (half of the visible spectrum goes to one eye while the other half goes to the other).

Because you want some margin to avoid crosstalk (gaps beetween notches), 40-45% light transmission is what you should expect, even with the most sophisticated filters.

I had 40% with my Dolby setup. What you would get with the new filters is only better color accuracy, not increased light throughput.

Pterodactyl, do you know if the new filters are aimed at UHP lamps? (taking special care of reds)

Jack
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post #207 of 252 Old 01-11-2012, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jack-bauer View Post

Pterodactyl, do you know if the new filters are aimed at UHP lamps? (taking special care of reds)

That haven't been explicitly stated so... I'll ask when I have a chance. Otherwise, UHP lamps were mentioned, and ensuring various stuff is accounted for... E.g. one of the related issues was for color correction to allow choice of any output color temperature.

Edit: minor addition... while it is true that new filters improve color accuracy, the bands were chosen in such a way to simultaneously improve brightness. It's not just width of the filters, but entire handling of available spectrum is better balanced (xy coordinates are arranged to require less color correction).
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post #208 of 252 Old 02-23-2012, 10:58 PM
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I have been reading up on all things 3D and I have to say this thread is the most exciting thing I've read. I want to build a passive 3D home theater and I want a clear upgrade path from a single HD projector and screen to a dual projector setup, for cost and features this seems like a clear winner. I have some time to wait for the perfect solution as I am starting from scratch and want to first build out a great 2D experience. What options are there for mid-range projectors to use with a setup like this?

Pterodactyl, we should wait for your product to hit market and not bother investing in Dolby 3D calibration lenses/glasses, is that correct? Infitec is going to provide better gear for this type of application?

I want this kind of setup for movies, for the family and a 3D surround system for gaming on the PC (which I'm sure there are better threads to talk about that). For now I'm just enjoying 3D Vision Discover and my avisynth script to convert stuff to anaglyph.

I hope to see this materialize soon!
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post #209 of 252 Old 02-24-2012, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalsleep View Post

I want this kind of setup for movies, for the family and a 3D surround system for gaming on the PC (which I'm sure there are better threads to talk about that). For now I'm just enjoying 3D Vision Discover and my avisynth script to convert stuff to anaglyph.

Well... there is nothing wrong with any current product, assuming one understands their capabilities. Buy what you like If you can wait - possibly several or many months, we are unfortunately moving somewhat slowly towards production - we do plan to provide a superior and AFAIK only complete solution (that includes calibration, signal splitting and color correction electronics) especially tailored for home cinema.

I am not authorized to speak on behalf of Infitec. (IMHO so far they were most helpful and positive...)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...280393&page=37 thread may also be interesting.
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post #210 of 252 Old 02-25-2012, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RasterEyes View Post

For anyone interested, I'd been curious what the different primary colors for the Infitec system are:

Left Eye: Red 629nm, Green 532nm, Blue 446nm
Right Eye: Red 615nm, Green 518nm, Blue 432nm

More info here: http://www.stereoscopy.com/faq/inter...e-filters.html

I don't have a sense for how these values translate into a real-life visual experience, but I wonder if they're close enough that you could get away without using a CMS and still get pretty good results.

note that these are bands that each cover a range of wavelegnths each and not lines or single wavelegnths. they are trying to split rgb into two bands each and then send one of each band to each eye. it makes for poor color and the need for their color process server to make colors look right at all.

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