3D projector using Infitec method? - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 252 Old 02-25-2012, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by digitalsleep View Post

I have been reading up on all things 3D and I have to say this thread is the most exciting thing I've read. I want to build a passive 3D home theater and I want a clear upgrade path from a single HD projector and screen to a dual projector setup, for cost and features this seems like a clear winner. I have some time to wait for the perfect solution as I am starting from scratch and want to first build out a great 2D experience. What options are there for mid-range projectors to use with a setup like this?

Pterodactyl, we should wait for your product to hit market and not bother investing in Dolby 3D calibration lenses/glasses, is that correct? Infitec is going to provide better gear for this type of application?

I want this kind of setup for movies, for the family and a 3D surround system for gaming on the PC (which I'm sure there are better threads to talk about that). For now I'm just enjoying 3D Vision Discover and my avisynth script to convert stuff to anaglyph.

I hope to see this materialize soon!

Hi, take a look at this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ziuTZQx7dg
passive glasses, no silver screen no color issues like Dolby, I used a PC and can game from it or play movies and internet content, even google earth projected in stereoscopic 3D.

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post #212 of 252 Old 02-29-2012, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post

I get what you mean (and privately I agree). We have a big meeting scheduled for next week, I'll see if we can address this.

@yunti: currently the box supports only frame packed 720p to dual outputs; 720p frame sequential would be simple to add (unless there are some yet unknown AMD or Nvidia specifics).

I think that NVidia currently supports 1080p 3D at 120hz (60p per eye), but I think it's only thorugh their standard - forget if that is DL DVI or whether it will also be supported through displayport.

Either way, a device that could demux the 1080p60 for each eye from an NVidia setup is definitely the "missing link" in my dream system right now, and I would pay extra for that NVidia functionality, even if it meant you had to pay a license fee to them.

I'd love to think that NVidia would start supporting 120hz 1080p 3D over displayport, but I just don't get the feeling that they are feeling the competitive pressure from AMD yet - even though AMD is now putting displayport on their newer cards.

Who knows - but I definitely want the 120hz support as well, so add my name to the others who have chimed in here.

Just ordered a new Sandy Bridge-E system in preparation for the new NVidia 670/680 cards - so I'm really counting on something to "come through" in terms of a new development that will allow me to get the most from it.
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post #213 of 252 Old 02-29-2012, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post


I think that NVidia currently supports 1080p 3D at 120hz (60p per eye), but I think it's only thorugh their standard - forget if that is DL DVI or whether it will also be supported through displayport.

Either way, a device that could demux the 1080p60 for each eye from an NVidia setup is definitely the "missing link" in my dream system right now, and I would pay extra for that NVidia functionality, even if it meant you had to pay a license fee to them.

I'd love to think that NVidia would start supporting 120hz 1080p 3D over displayport, but I just don't get the feeling that they are feeling the competitive pressure from AMD yet - even though AMD is now putting displayport on their newer cards.

Who knows - but I definitely want the 120hz support as well, so add my name to the others who have chimed in here.

Just ordered a new Sandy Bridge-E system in preparation for the new NVidia 670/680 cards - so I'm really counting on something to "come through" in terms of a new development that will allow me to get the most from it.

Nvidia do now support 3d over Displayport inc 3d at 1080p @120hz over this connection

Have a look here: http://3dvision-blog.com/7107-3d-vis...t-or-xl2420tx/

However only DL DVI supports multi screen 3d vision. It isn't supported over HDMi or displayport (although it's more likely they will add this to displayport in the future - they view HDMI as used on tv's not monitors and they don't see a market for multi tv setups just monitors)

I can't remember the displayport 1.1a spec off hand but I think it's just frame sequential not frame packed. So Nvidia probably added their own custom extra info to the signal as Pterodactyl mentioned they do for DL Dvi. - suggesting that a license will be needed. (or EDID spoofing of that Benq monitor) But Pterodactyl you'll know more on this than I do.
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post #214 of 252 Old 02-29-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by yunti View Post

Nvidia do now support 3d over Displayport inc 3d at 1080p @120hz over this connection

Have a look here: http://3dvision-blog.com/7107-3d-vis...t-or-xl2420tx/

However only DL DVI supports multi screen 3d vision. It isn't supported over HDMi or displayport (although it's more likely they will add this to displayport in the future - they view HDMI as used on tv's not monitors and they don't see a market for multi tv setups just monitors)

I can't remember the displayport 1.1a spec off hand but I think it's just frame sequential not frame packed. So Nvidia probably added their own custom extra info to the signal as Pterodactyl mentioned they do for DL Dvi. - suggesting that a license will be needed. (or EDID spoofing of that Benq monitor) But Pterodactyl you'll know more on this than I do.

Excellent - so 120hz 1080p 3D Vision is now available over both DVI and Displayport.

Pterodactyl - it would be GREAT if you supported at least one of those interfaces for demuxing 120hz 3D!
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post #215 of 252 Old 03-02-2012, 04:56 AM
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We've concluded we can add 120Hz, this way and that way and even some third way; it is now up to financing and estimated interest of the market, to determine when we'll do it.
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post #216 of 252 Old 03-03-2012, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post

We've concluded we can add 120Hz, this way and that way and even some third way; it is now up to financing and estimated interest of the market, to determine when we'll do it.

That's great news news. Thanks for the update
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post #217 of 252 Old 03-05-2012, 07:20 PM
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Get this box out for beta testing This with the Panavision 3d kit should be great. Also could you make it switch to dual mode as fast as possible, I have two 3DXL and it gets annoying how long they take to recognize the signal and switch over.
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post #218 of 252 Old 03-07-2012, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jmcguire525 View Post

Get this box out for beta testing This with the Panavision 3d kit should be great. Also could you make it switch to dual mode as fast as possible, I have two 3DXL and it gets annoying how long they take to recognize the signal and switch over.

I am pushing the project as much as possible without annoying everyone around...

Regarding long switch times, it may help if you try shorter or just another cable. At video frequencies, HDMI cable is not a simple conductor but a transmission line, meaning impedance and behavior of the cable changes when video mode changes. Some receiver chips then try various resistors (to match cable impedance) until they manage to successively receive several frames.
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post #219 of 252 Old 03-07-2012, 03:26 PM
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If 1080p 120hz is included would the output be thru HDMI, that way a dual setup bought now would be ready for it in the future? DisplayPort/DVI---> 3D Box---> 2x HDMI---> Projectors
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post #220 of 252 Old 03-07-2012, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post

We've concluded we can add 120Hz, this way and that way and even some third way; it is now up to financing and estimated interest of the market, to determine when we'll do it.

I'm in! I'll pay double to help you get it out to everyone else sooner and cheaper too.

I'd consider this a sort of 3DXL Pro, and the ability to use it with 1080p120hz 3D would be awesome - a huge missing link in the market right now.

And on top of that, I'd buy it from you in order to help you beta test it.

In other words, I want this bad...
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post #221 of 252 Old 03-08-2012, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by jmcguire525 View Post

If 1080p 120hz is included would the output be thru HDMI, that way a dual setup bought now would be ready for it in the future? DisplayPort/DVI---> 3D Box---> 2x HDMI---> Projectors

Outputs will be HDMI or DVI, still deciding about that (both have some advantages, technical or economical).

So far we are going with 120Hz support. I'm told we are going to start the production as soon as objectively possible. I may get some concrete dates during this month.
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post #222 of 252 Old 03-08-2012, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post

Outputs will be HDMI or DVI, still deciding about that (both have some advantages, technical or economical).

So far we are going with 120Hz support. I'm told we are going to start the production as soon as objectively possible. I may get some concrete dates during this month.

Sounds awesome - I'm stoked.
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post #223 of 252 Old 03-09-2012, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post

Outputs will be HDMI or DVI, still deciding about that (both have some advantages, technical or economical).

So far we are going with 120Hz support. I'm told we are going to start the production as soon as objectively possible. I may get some concrete dates during this month.

Please get me up to speed. Are you looking at offering an alternative to the optoma xl 3D? How much is it going to cost? Any timeline of when it will be available or at least an idea?
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post #224 of 252 Old 03-13-2012, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by curtishd View Post

Please get me up to speed. Are you looking at offering an alternative to the optoma xl 3D? How much is it going to cost? Any timeline of when it will be available or at least an idea?

(Already replied to a private message.) Not much to add, except that we'll try to make adjustments of two projectors easy: equal brightness and (optionally) color correction would require mostly just pushing a button.
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post #225 of 252 Old 03-13-2012, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Sounds awesome - I'm stoked.

+1. I tried gaming at 1080p24 3D and it was horrible. Gotta be 1080p60.
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post #226 of 252 Old 03-14-2012, 05:23 AM
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I've upgraded my graphics card to an AMD HD7990 which claims to support 3GHz Hdmi. So I'll be able to test AMD's both DVI-DL and hdmi for 120Hz output. I just hope AMD HD3D drivers are up to date this time.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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post #227 of 252 Old 03-22-2012, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post

Outputs will be HDMI or DVI, still deciding about that (both have some advantages, technical or economical).

So far we are going with 120Hz support. I'm told we are going to start the production as soon as objectively possible. I may get some concrete dates during this month.

I for one recommend hdmi. If you go DVI, I think you'd be limiting yourself to PC users. I haven't read the whole thread so if that is your intended market, then so be it.
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post #228 of 252 Old 03-22-2012, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jmcguire525 View Post

If 1080p 120hz is included would the output be thru HDMI, that way a dual setup bought now would be ready for it in the future? DisplayPort/DVI---> 3D Box---> 2x HDMI---> Projectors

I think the Hdmi output would be the best way to go here. The output is just a 2d signal so going DVI DL isn't needed and HDMI will work with virtually every projector where as DVI won't

Input is more difficult the latest generation of both amd and nvidia support fast HDMI so that could be a good future proof option. However not sure if the chips needed to process this are available yet?
But DVI DL would probably be the most currently compatible but potentially the least future proof. (although still works fine on latest gen graphics cards)
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post #229 of 252 Old 04-01-2012, 09:19 PM
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Pterodactyl, any more updates for us..? Patiently waiting for great news from you.
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post #230 of 252 Old 04-04-2012, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by hungary View Post

Pterodactyl, any more updates for us..? Patiently waiting for great news from you.

Still awaiting to secure financing for production...
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post #231 of 252 Old 08-31-2012, 07:31 AM
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Any update to this project yet?
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post #232 of 252 Old 09-04-2012, 02:13 AM
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Any update to this project yet?

No frown.gif, but it was neither cancelled nor green-lighted, so all options are still open...
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post #233 of 252 Old 06-24-2013, 06:23 AM
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Project dead?
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post #234 of 252 Old 06-26-2013, 08:53 AM
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In hibernation smile.gif We can resurrect it if there is interest...
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post #235 of 252 Old 06-26-2013, 09:02 PM
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In hibernation smile.gif We can resurrect it if there is interest...

I think there might be.
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post #236 of 252 Old 06-27-2013, 04:30 AM
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http://www.infitec.net/index.php/home/projector-kits

Just called with Infitec in Germany. The guy I spoke with told me that their passive 3D solution can be used with all type of projectors (DLP, LCD, LCOS) and will work perfectly. So what s the catch here and why does not everyone who is looking for a passive dual-stack 3D setup has bought the Infitec kit? Also no silverscreen is required!

EDIT:
I justed talked to Infitec again. They told me that their currect passive 3D solution uses 3x4 band colors and that this results in perfect colors. No color decoder or anything needed.
They also told me that they are testing a JVC dual-stack solution at this moment and that this will become available soon.
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post #237 of 252 Old 06-27-2013, 09:53 AM
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That sounds like marketing, to be honest. Working "perfectly" for all projectors seems unlikely. I would rather have an honest assessment.
"So what s the catch here and why does not everyone who is looking for a passive dual-stack 3D setup has bought the Infitec kit? Also no silverscreen is required!"
We still need a signal splitter. Us gamers were really hoping Pterodactyl would come out with one that would let us game in 1080p120. Also the infitec kit really cuts brightness so some of us wait for a magic cure. Currently having a silverscreen seems more acceptable than having dim 3D. Maybe not. A good review somewhere would go a long way to removing our hesitation. Then there is talk of the RED projector. Laser 4k passive 3D projector, all for < 10k. That would clearly be worth having a silverscreen for.
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post #238 of 252 Old 06-27-2013, 11:00 AM
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Hi,

I have seen a demo of the mentioned Infitec 3x4 band filters and the Infitec splitter at the HighEnd trade show in Munich this May. I was so impressed that I acquired a second JVC DLA-RS50U to accompany my first one. Since the chosen distributor for Germany, who also supported the trade fair demo, didn't respond to my inquiry, I went down the original Dolby 3D path, acquired a few glasses with the 3M lenses and a pair of Dolby 50x50mm calibration filters.

I am still so impressed by the 3D effect, that I didn't care much about calibration so far. Since I already owned a Lumagen Radiance XE-3D, I added a Lumagen Radiance Mini-3D to complete the splitting (each 3D capable Radiance can be set up to only pass on the picture for either the left or the right eye). So the XE-3D drives the left eye the Mini-3D the right one. My pre/pro has two mirrored HDMI outs, so both Radiances automatically receive the same (3D) signal. With the light power of the two projectors, the picture appears to be much brighter than with the JVC shutter glasses.

But above all, I feel, as if I had never seen the real 3D (no pun intended) before. The first generation shutter 3D from JVC (i.e. my DLA-RS50U) produced some depth for me, but the picture never sprang out of the screen. The overall perception was rather flat. The picture was darker, despite the projector running in high lamp mode, and I only could bear wearing the shutter glasses when using some additional nose padding. Even in the movie theater with polarized glasses, I never felt that immersed. I have seen a circular polarization demo with a Runco projector on the HighEnd trade show two years ago and that was impressive as well, but the immersion factor wasn't as high as with the Dolby/Infitec solution.

I am wondering, if it is an individual thing, i.e, if it is due to my very personal way of perceiving things that the color band technology is working so much better for me than the 1. gen JVC shutters or Real3D in the movie theater...?

As far as the need for color calibration with the new 3x4 band Infitec filters goes, I can't really comment on that, based on the demo on the HighEnd trade show.

Once I have found the time, I will try to boost red in the projectors service menu and do the two calibrations for the left and right projector. I have Calman Enthusiast and their C6 colorimeter, but I am not sure, what the best process would be to do the calibration. I could do an Autocalibration with the 125 point CMS, having the calibration filters in front of the projectors. If the color is fine then, i.e. after being projected through the filter, it should be fine as well when watched through the (filter) glasses... what do you think? Is my thinking valid here? Has anybody actually done such a calibration, using Lumagens Radiances?

Thanks!

Markus
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post #239 of 252 Old 06-27-2013, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

That sounds like marketing, to be honest. Working "perfectly" for all projectors seems unlikely. I would rather have an honest assessment.
"So what s the catch here and why does not everyone who is looking for a passive dual-stack 3D setup has bought the Infitec kit? Also no silverscreen is required!"
We still need a signal splitter. Us gamers were really hoping Pterodactyl would come out with one that would let us game in 1080p120. Also the infitec kit really cuts brightness so some of us wait for a magic cure. Currently having a silverscreen seems more acceptable than having dim 3D. Maybe not. A good review somewhere would go a long way to removing our hesitation. Then there is talk of the RED projector. Laser 4k passive 3D projector, all for < 10k. That would clearly be worth having a silverscreen for.

I think it is possible to do what Infitec claims for their new 3x4 band filters. 99.5% of our home theater projectors, no matter whether LCD, DLP or LCOS/D-ILA, use UHP lamps. They all have more or less the same color (im)balance. So adjusting a filter to let more light pass in areas where a lamp is weak, seams reasonable to me. And doing this, taking color balance into account, might reduce, if not eliminate the need for color correction. I still think that each individual projector (model) would benefit from a color calibration, but that rather like any projector does without a 3D filter in front of its lens... additionally, technology might have improved, so maybe filter slopes can be steeper and therefore the pair of filters might let more light pass.

Markus
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post #240 of 252 Old 06-27-2013, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mv038856 View Post

I have Calman Enthusiast and their C6 colorimeter, but I am not sure, what the best process would be to do the calibration. I could do an Autocalibration with the 125 point CMS, having the calibration filters in front of the projectors. If the color is fine then, i.e. after being projected through the filter, it should be fine as well when watched through the (filter) glasses... what do you think? Is my thinking valid here? Has anybody actually done such a calibration, using Lumagens Radiances?

I am planning to buy a Lumagen Radiance Mini-3D at some point. I think I remember reading somewhere in the SpectraCal documentation that the colorimeter should measure through the glasses, but you can double check this by reading the documentation or the Display Calibration section of the forum.
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