3D mode on my Mitsubishi DLP's - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 662 Old 08-17-2010, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Troggie View Post

Eh... worth a shot, right?

Some may laugh, but I actually posted the opposite offer a week or two ago and no one responded. optomas were returned, or I would trade you. The rainbows were that bad for me.
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post #92 of 662 Old 08-17-2010, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondpilot View Post

It is clearly a design screwup- Mitsubishi themselves have stated that the problem is caused by DLP-LINK being on all the time in the pre-2010 sets.

Mitsubishi is obviously aware that this is a problem, as they are sending out verbatim canned replys to those who email about it(see the posts earlier in this thread), and they have fixed it in the 2010 models.


The problem only exists because Mitsubishi senselessly and foolishly designed and sold a 3D system based on IR-shutter glasses that has DLP-LINK permanently on all the time on all pre-2010 sets.

I agree and I'll take it a step further. There is justification here for pursuing a class action lawsuit IMO. I've mentioned in another thread that I would like to begin collecting PMs at a dedicated user name for people who wish to complain about the tint issue, and for people who wish to complain about the rainbow issue.

Mitsubishi acknowledges the tint condition, apparently. They aren't willing to acknowledge that it is a defect. It would be cheaper for them just to fix it, than to fight class action litigation, lose, and then fix it. But they won't assume legal action will take place. We have to force their hand. The downside is that it will take time to achieve a settlement if they choose to let it play out a while.

As for the polarization rainbow, they brushed me off by saying it was the DLP rainbow effect. They are either incredibly ignorant of their own product, or disingenuous.
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post #93 of 662 Old 08-17-2010, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjknatl View Post

Some may laugh, but I actually posted the opposite offer a week or two ago and no one responded. optomas were returned, or I would trade you. The rainbows were that bad for me.

Hmm... Now I'm not so sure about either option.

Guess I'll just have to buy a pair of Optomas to compare before selling the Mits's. Wish me luck on explaining that to the wife.
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post #94 of 662 Old 08-17-2010, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Troggie View Post

Hmm... Now I'm not so sure about either option.

Guess I'll just have to buy a pair of Optomas to compare before selling the Mits's. Wish me luck on explaining that to the wife.

definitely worth a try. not everyone has the rainbow problem, and apparently some have a worse problem than others. If you don't have the rainbow with the x102s (if you have tried them), I don't think you will have it with the optomas either.
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post #95 of 662 Old 08-17-2010, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jjknatl View Post

definitely worth a try. not everyone has the rainbow problem, and apparently some have a worse problem than others. If you don't have the rainbow with the x102s (if you have tried them), I don't think you will have it with the optomas either.

What about If you don't see rainbows with the Mit's/Samsung glasses. Will I see rainbows with the Optoma/102's?

Also, what's the vote on DLP-Link glasses. Xpand 102's or Otpoma's?

I heard the Optoma's can break easily If you slightly bend out the red part of the glasses...

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post #96 of 662 Old 08-17-2010, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyabusha View Post

What about If you don't see rainbows with the Mit's/Samsung glasses. Will I see rainbows with the Optoma/102's?

Also, what's the vote on DLP-Link glasses. Xpand 102's or Otpoma's?

I heard the Optoma's can break easily If you slightly bend out the red part of the glasses...

I see no rainbows with the Mits glasses but do with the X102's. I will be getting a pair of Optoma's in a couple of days. I'll let you know the pros and cons of each pair when I get them.
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post #97 of 662 Old 08-17-2010, 02:24 PM
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Robness Monster:

Here's a recap:

Pre-2010 Mitsubishi 3D DLP TV's do not work well with one category of active 3D glasses-including the glasses that come with the Mitsubishi 3D kit.

There are two technologies for synching active glasses to the display.

One uses an infrared transmitter, or emitter, to communicate with the glasses. The other is called DLP-Link. DLP-Link requires no transmitter. Instead, the tv screen flashes white between each left and right eye signal, which tells DLP-Link glasses to switch eyes.

When using no glasses, or when using IR-sync glasses, the dlp-link flash is noticeable as a washed out picture- blacks and dark areas are whitish-blue or whitish-green.

DLP-Link glasses turn both eyes off during the flash, so you can't see the flash when the glasses are on.

IR glasses don't know a thing about the DLP-Link flash, and therefore do not mute it.

If you use IR glasses with DLP-link enabled, the picture quality will be degraded in terms of black level, color saturation, color accuracy, and dark detail.

The problem is, on the pre-2010 mitsubishi sets, there is no way to turn off DLP-Link.

The solution is, use DLP-Link glasses instead of IR glasses on pre-2010 models.

The 2010 models have a menu option to toggle the TV between IR-Shutter mode and DLP-Link mode. So with a 2010 set, you can use either as long as you set the tv menu correctly.

Mitsubishi's 3DC-1000 kit comes with IR shutter glasses.

So, if you have a 2009 or earlier DLP 3D set, you are much better off buying the adapter only (to convert blu-ray 3D to the checkerboard 3D system used in DLP sets) for $100 instead of the full kit, and separately ordering DLP-Link glasses.

You will spend less money total and have a much better picture.

From what I gather from posts on these forums, the Optomas are a bit better than the Xpand DLP-Link glasses. I can only vouch personally for the Optomas, which I find excellent in terms of image quality.

$81 from projectorzone.com for the Optomas, and the 3D adapter is $100.
So, for a pair of glasses and the adapter, you are at $262 and you have a much better picture on pre-2010 models than the $399 mitsubishi starter kit.
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post #98 of 662 Old 08-17-2010, 03:16 PM
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So do you think I would be better off getting the Optima BG-ZD101 glasses and Mitsubishi - 3D Adapter for my WD-65835 or should I get the starter kit?
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post #99 of 662 Old 08-17-2010, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Murray View Post

So do you think I would be better off getting the Optima BG-ZD101 glasses and Mitsubishi - 3D Adapter for my WD-65835 or should I get the starter kit?

Optima BG-ZD101 glasses and Mitsubishi - 3D Adapter.

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post #100 of 662 Old 08-17-2010, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondpilot View Post

If you use IR glasses with DLP-link enabled, the picture quality will be degraded in terms of black level, color saturation, color accuracy, and dark detail.

The solution is, use DLP-Link glasses instead of IR glasses on pre-2010 models.

So, if you have a 2009 or earlier DLP 3D set, you are much better off buying the adapter only (to convert blu-ray 3D to the checkerboard 3D system used in DLP sets) for $100 instead of the full kit, and separately ordering DLP-Link glasses.

You will spend less money total and have a much better picture.

From what I gather from posts on these forums, the Optomas are a bit better than the Xpand DLP-Link glasses. I can only vouch personally for the Optomas, which I find excellent in terms of image quality.

I've been using XpanD X102 DLP link glasses only so far. I did not know it made that big a difference over the IR emitter ones. I did have a pair of Veiwsonics on order but after months I gave up and got the X102s. Been very happy with them, but might order an Optima to compare. I just wish the XpanDs had a rubber nose piece.
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post #101 of 662 Old 08-17-2010, 08:03 PM
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To add some more fuel to the adapter fire i did some testing and when the adapter is passing through non 3d material it is doing something funky to black level. I used a pluge pattern from the avs disc here in the calibration forums via ps3 running through the adapter with 3d turned off. None of the bars flash on the pluge pattern regardless of where i set the brightness level on my 73835. Remove the adapter from the equation and viola flashing bars appear again on the pluge pattern. Between this and the issue being discussed already here im starting to really feel raked over the coals by mits.
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post #102 of 662 Old 08-18-2010, 04:36 AM
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Hey Guys, I have a ? Whats the difference (if any) between the View Sonic PGD-150 3D glasses and the Optoma BG DZ101 3D Glasses? They seem to be very similiar to me but thought I'd ask.
Thanks
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post #103 of 662 Old 08-18-2010, 05:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by djr357 View Post

Hey Guys, I have a ? Whats the difference (if any) between the View Sonic PGD-150 3D glasses and the Optoma BG DZ101 3D Glasses? They seem to be very similiar to me but thought I'd ask.
Thanks

Nothing, It's just like Samsung/Mit's glasses. But the Viewsonic's seem to be discontinued everywhere.

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post #104 of 662 Old 08-18-2010, 08:16 AM
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Hey Hyabusha, first off very nice setup! I saw ur pic. I was hoping you could help with my setup. I just ordered the Mits 3DA-1 adapter and the Optoma glasses. Here is my potential 3D setup. I also have a Onkyo TX-SR805 receiver, Klipsch mains and surrounds, HSU research sub, PS3 60 GB, a 360 and the Mits 73C9. I currently have everything passing thru my Onkyo via HDMI.
My question is how should I run the 3D when I get it? I can't pass the HDMI thru the Onkyo for 3D right? So what about the audio? Should I run the HDMI from the PS3 thru the adapter then straight to the TV and then Optical out from my PS3 to my Onkyo for audio. Hoping you can help since you have a similar setup. Thanks in advance!





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Originally Posted by Hyabusha View Post

Nothing, It's just like Samsung/Mit's glasses. But the Viewsonic's seem to be discontinued everywhere.

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post #105 of 662 Old 08-18-2010, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by djr357 View Post

Hey Hyabusha, first off very nice setup! I saw ur pic. I was hoping you could help with my setup. I just ordered the Mits 3DA-1 adapter and the Optoma glasses. Here is my potential 3D setup. I also have a Onkyo TX-SR805 receiver, Klipsch mains and surrounds, HSU research sub, PS3 60 GB, a 360 and the Mits 73C9. I currently have everything passing thru my Onkyo via HDMI.
My question is how should I run the 3D when I get it? I can’t pass the HDMI thru the Onkyo for 3D right? So what about the audio? Should I run the HDMI from the PS3 thru the adapter then straight to the TV and then Optical out from my PS3 to my Onkyo for audio. Hoping you can help since you have a similar setup. Thanks in advance!

Thanks! Yes I run all my hdmi thru a 5-1 hdmi switch to the adapter, then to my tv. Then I have a optical switcher to run ps3 and everything else to the into for the 805 to have digital sound.

Updated Theater Pics...

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post #106 of 662 Old 08-18-2010, 11:43 AM
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Hey Hyabusha

Did the service tech ever replace that board in your tv? I have someone coming out tomorrow, I'm interested to see what he says. I'm also going to contact Xpand and Optoma about rotating the polarization of their glasses. If they could eliminate those vertical rainbows then I'd be content with 3D on my 2009 set.
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post #107 of 662 Old 08-18-2010, 11:50 AM
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But you don't run the 3D HDMI thru the HDMI switcher can you? or you go direct to the TV for 3D?
I was looking on Monoprice at the switchers...Is there one you recommend? And is the optical switcher a totally different box? Because I so some switchers with the optical tos link port built in.
Sorry for all the ?'s I just want to get it right! Thanks for your help



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyabusha View Post

Thanks! Yes I run all my hdmi thru a 5-1 hdmi switch to the adapter, then to my tv. Then I have a optical switcher to run ps3 and everything else to the into for the 805 to have digital sound.

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post #108 of 662 Old 08-18-2010, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bcterp View Post

Hey Hyabusha

Did the service tech ever replace that board in your tv? I have someone coming out tomorrow, I'm interested to see what he says. I'm also going to contact Xpand and Optoma about rotating the polarization of their glasses. If they could eliminate those vertical rainbows then I'd be content with 3D on my 2009 set.

Let me know what you hear about rotating the polarization. Also, could you ask if they have any plans for opposite sync (or a sync setting on the glasses) while you're at it. Thanks.
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post #109 of 662 Old 08-18-2010, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcterp View Post

Hey Hyabusha

Did the service tech ever replace that board in your tv? I have someone coming out tomorrow, I'm interested to see what he says. I'm also going to contact Xpand and Optoma about rotating the polarization of their glasses. If they could eliminate those vertical rainbows then I'd be content with 3D on my 2009 set.

The tech came out and replaced the Main Board. And of course It did not turn off the DLP-Link flash, nor add any option to disable It.

Called Mits support back, and now they seem to have a little knowledge on the DLP-Link flashes now. I'm waiting for another return call tomorrow for the final resolution regarding It.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djr357 View Post

But you don't run the 3D HDMI thru the HDMI switcher can you? or you go direct to the TV for 3D?
I was looking on Monoprice at the switchers...Is there one you recommend? And is the optical switcher a totally different box? Because I so some switchers with the optical tos link port built in.
Sorry for all the ?'s I just want to get it right! Thanks for your help

This Is the HDMI switcher I bought...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product

And the Remote Optical switcher...

http://www.amazon.com/SW200-Composit...1&sr=1-3-fkmr2

I put In an order for two Optoma 3D glasses while I deal with Mitsubishi...

Video Games, 3D, and Home Theater Forever! ^_^

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post #110 of 662 Old 08-18-2010, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyabusha View Post

The tech came out and replaced the Main Board. And of course It did not turn off the DLP-Link flash, nor add any option to disable It.

Called Mits support back, and now they seem to have a little knowledge on the DLP-Link flashes now. I'm waiting for another return call tomorrow for the final resolution regarding It.

Thanks for the update. I called MDEA on Saturday morning about the 3D mode. At first he was unaware of the issue but put me on hold to look it up. Of course he came back with the same crap that they have been sending out by email (it's DLP-Link and it's normal, aka "you're out of luck"). I logged my complaint and asked him to forward it on, not much else I could do.
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post #111 of 662 Old 08-18-2010, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jjknatl View Post

I agree and I'll take it a step further. There is justification here for pursuing a class action lawsuit IMO. I've mentioned in another thread that I would like to begin collecting PMs at a dedicated user name for people who wish to complain about the tint issue, and for people who wish to complain about the rainbow issue.

Mitsubishi acknowledges the tint condition, apparently. They aren't willing to acknowledge that it is a defect. It would be cheaper for them just to fix it, than to fight class action litigation, lose, and then fix it. But they won't assume legal action will take place. We have to force their hand. The downside is that it will take time to achieve a settlement if they choose to let it play out a while.

As for the polarization rainbow, they brushed me off by saying it was the DLP rainbow effect. They are either incredibly ignorant of their own product, or disingenuous.

Probably the first level tech support is ignorant while the higher ups are giving us the brush off. I have no idea if it's feasible but if this isn't a firmware fix and requires hardware then I'm sure they will never help us out without some convincing.
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post #112 of 662 Old 08-18-2010, 04:23 PM
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Thanks alot man! I cant wait to get my glasses and check it out. I am very happy with my 73C9 thus far!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyabusha View Post

The tech came out and replaced the Main Board. And of course It did not turn off the DLP-Link flash, nor add any option to disable It.

Called Mits support back, and now they seem to have a little knowledge on the DLP-Link flashes now. I'm waiting for another return call tomorrow for the final resolution regarding It.



This Is the HDMI switcher I bought...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product

And the Remote Optical switcher...

http://www.amazon.com/SW200-Composit...1&sr=1-3-fkmr2

I put In an order for two Optoma 3D glasses while I deal with Mitsubishi...

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post #113 of 662 Old 08-19-2010, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleverland View Post

Hey has anyone had any luck fixing the issue of no video when using DirectTV to Adapter to WD 73833 Mits TV? In the past I have had to switch the DVR off and on several times or switch TV inputs back and forth a couple of times for the the TV to sense a video signal but it seems to be getting way worse. Especially a pain when trying to view a recorded 3D source as turning the DVR off and back on stops the recording...Is there any way to boost the video signal or something?????

This question would be better asked in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1261771

I would also check dbstalk.com, they have a detailed thread on the problems with directv's 3D implementation
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post #114 of 662 Old 08-19-2010, 05:06 AM - Thread Starter
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diamondpilot, how are those Optoma's holding up?

Any new observations, or comment's on how they are the best glasses for Pre-2010 sets?

Just curious, as mine are going to arrive Tues...

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post #115 of 662 Old 08-19-2010, 06:06 AM
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Well the service tech has come and gone. I demonstrated the 3D haze which he agreed looked unusual. He then called MDEA about this and they told him it was normal. So that was the end of that.

My Optoma glasses arrive today. I'll let you know what I find with the Optoma's.
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post #116 of 662 Old 08-19-2010, 07:43 AM
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You guys who are having 3D teal/black/etc. problems: try taking a live action 3D BD like GC, and watch it on other 3D brands. I did, and found that none of the others had better(or even as good, IMO) color than my Mits. Moreover, the total 3D color rendition on the Mits looks flawless(the blacks are not great, but I didn't even notice it until I looked for it).
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post #117 of 662 Old 08-19-2010, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmalter0 View Post

You guys who are having 3D teal/black/etc. problems: try taking a live action 3D BD like GC, and watch it on other 3D brands. I did, and found that none of the others had better(or even as good, IMO) color than my Mits. Moreover, the total 3D color rendition on the Mits looks flawless(the blacks are not great, but I didn't even notice it until I looked for it).

The thing is, it could look better. I finally bought the kit and it's not as bad as I expected (feared) and can definately live with it and still enjoy it, but the fact is the black level is not as rich as when watching 2D.
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post #118 of 662 Old 08-19-2010, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Milmanias View Post

The thing is, it could look better.

But that's the issue--if no other brand is better--maybe it can't look better with today's technology.
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post #119 of 662 Old 08-19-2010, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmalter0 View Post

You guys who are having 3D teal/black/etc. problems: try taking a live action 3D BD like GC, and watch it on other 3D brands. I did, and found that none of the others had better(or even as good, IMO) color than my Mits. Moreover, the total 3D color rendition on the Mits looks flawless(the blacks are not great, but I didn't even notice it until I looked for it).

Now try your set with a pair of dlp-link glasses. They sync with and block out the light flashes unlike the Mits glasses. The result is a brighter image, better colors, darker blacks, no tint to the blacks (I have both types of glasses). The problem is they sync opposite to the Mits glasses and cause polarization rainbows on many TVs. The Mits glasses are an inferior product compared to dlp-link glasses and this is due solely to a design flaw that they corrected for in 2010 models but are telling pre-2010 owners that there is no problem.

Edit: I will try and photograph and post the difference between dlp link glasses and Mits glasses.
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post #120 of 662 Old 08-19-2010, 10:19 AM
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I made the mistake of buying the 3D starter kit with the emitter glasses because the first few people that purchased the starter kit claimed that the emitter glasses were better. They probably had a 2010 model. I think the best move is to wait for a pair of DLP-Link glasses that have an option to reverse the polarity so that I can use them with the emitter glasses. I like the fact that I can buy Samsung kids glasses that can sync with the emitter.

I already got ripped of by paying the full price of 399 for the starter pack, I don’t want to jump the gun again and buy another pair of glasses that I can’t use with the emitter glasses. I guess this is the price we all pay for being early adopters.

I will be monitoring this thread closely to see if anyone runs across a DLP link solution that is compatible with the emitter glasses. I already read a post in another thread that claims they have created an emitter that has an option for reversing.
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