Mitsubishi 3D Checkerboard Converter + Gefen HDMI Detective = 3D on Samsung HL61A750 - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 03:01 PM
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ok, I finally got a 3d picture back from the actual channels. and the audio is playing straight through the 3da-1 and then the gefen to my 61a750's speakers.

the last thing i did:

all the equipment powered on.

unplugged the hdmi out from the gefen.

unplugged the 3da-1 power from the back of the box for about 30 seconds.

plugged it back in.

plugged in the gefen hdmi out.

voila.

even the menu screen is now in the checkerboard format. this is definitely new.

not sure if this will work every time, but I'm sure i'll have more chances to find out. For now, I'm not touching anything.

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post #62 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 03:58 PM
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There must be another step or something different in there, Kevin. I just tried those same steps a few times and I'm still not getting anything.

Can you answer a couple of questions about your setup that may help with these steps?
1.) Are you using the HDCP switch on the Gefen (switches 1,2 and 3 are off, switch 4 is on)?
2.) When this started working, was your D* receiver already on? Had it been power cycled/reset within the last 10 minutes? Was this in the middle of a D* reset?
3.) Were there any other HDMI cables that became unplugged just before this process?

What I'm starting to think is that HDMI cables can carry power even when the device their plugged in to is off. This leads me to think that they can store an EDID even if only one end is plugged in. So the only way for it to really lose an EDID is for it to be unplugged at both ends at once.
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post #63 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 04:35 PM
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Switch 4 has to be on sinc blu-ray disks requirs HDCP as do some some broadcast programs. I can not think of any reason for having it off.
The EDID data in the Gefen is stored in non-volatile memory
The HDMI cables do not carry any separate power to the Gefen it just works with the power contained with the electrical content in the video signal and in th send and receive requests that it receives.
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post #64 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I am embarrassed to say that I changed firmware on my HR24-500 last night and I lost my 3D signal. I have so far been unsuccessful in restoring it. I have tried the technique that Kevin recommended but so far I have been unsuccessful. I even ordered two more pairs of Samsung SSG1000 Glasses to go with my existing two pair before this happened. If I never hear the term EDID or HDMI handshake ever again in my life I may be a happy man. Is it just me or does anyone else miss analog? I am so happy all of these engineers have made our lives so easy by making all of our equipment so smart that it can talk to each other.

Kevin,

What model DirecTv receiver are you using and what is the version of the FW? If you need to PM regarding this issue then I will understand. Thanks.
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post #65 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 05:18 PM
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My software is 0x3e0, Tue 7/13, 8:22p
HR24/500

Firmware 2.0.24

I had done a reset within the prior 20 minutes.

I still don't know exactly why it's working, but those were the things I did just before.

A strange thing happened while watching n3D, the channel changed automatically to the channel guide. channel 200. After that, the menu became checkerboard, and the 3 3d channels turned white one at a time.

Not sure what is going to happen once I turn everything off, but I'll find out tomorrow morning as I don't plan on turning anything off until I go to bed tonight.

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post #66 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White_Worm View Post

There must be another step or something different in there, Kevin. I just tried those same steps a few times and I'm still not getting anything.

Can you answer a couple of questions about your setup that may help with these steps?
1.) Are you using the HDCP switch on the Gefen (switches 1,2 and 3 are off, switch 4 is on)?
2.) When this started working, was your D* receiver already on? Had it been power cycled/reset within the last 10 minutes? Was this in the middle of a D* reset?
3.) Were there any other HDMI cables that became unplugged just before this process?

What I'm starting to think is that HDMI cables can carry power even when the device their plugged in to is off. This leads me to think that they can store an EDID even if only one end is plugged in. So the only way for it to really lose an EDID is for it to be unplugged at both ends at once.

switch 4 is on. the rest are off.

the D* receiver was on during. but had been reset within the last 20 minutes. not during this procedure.

only the gefen output was unplugged. and then the power to the 3da-1

this is the third time I have had 3d from the D* channels, the other two ended very abruptly and I didn't have nearly the results that I do now, so I know it will work for you, it's just a matter of being very persistent.

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post #67 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 05:45 PM
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Geaux,
Unrelated to your problem but, porting the Gefen output through my Onkyo (HDMI 1.2a) to the HDMI 3 of my HL72a650 seemed to take care of the consistent audio loss issue. All the previous greyed out problems remain.
Kevin's instructions didn't help on my HR21-200.
I believe I have a HR-24 in my RV which I am going to swap out now. From your post, am I correct that the HR24 does firmware upgrades in addition to the software updates, while the HR21 just does software updates???
Thanks, JIM
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post #68 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White_Worm View Post

There must be another step or something different in there, Kevin. I just tried those same steps a few times and I'm still not getting anything.

The only other thing that happened in the prior 20 minutes was a call to D* tech support. I told them that my tv was the mits that I got the edid from. During the call he resent something, but nothing happened. I don't think it is related though. He could not help me at all, and suggested a call to mits. I did not call mits. That was at least 15 minutes before I tried this.

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post #69 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 05:58 PM
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Currently, I can't even try that. My adapter won't do anything but pass-through. It won't turn on the "3d mode" light at all, and pressing the 3d mode button does nothing.

Kevin, when you got D* working, was the HR24 on a 3D channel? Or a non-3D channel?
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post #70 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 06:15 PM
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I was not on a 3D channel at the time. What clued me in was that the audio had suddenly started working just after i plugged the gefen output back in. Then I turned to the 3d channels and found what I had hoped to be true.

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post #71 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 06:38 PM
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Kevin and Geaux,
Curious as to the modes you were successful with. I believe when I had mine working, I had the Mit's adapter at the first mode light (Meaning with only the power light on, one push of the mode button to bring on the mode light. I believe the 3d picture was best with the Samsung TV 3d set to mode 2. Does this sound correct?
Also, Geaux, when you had yours working for some time, were you able to go back and forth from regular programming and shut off and on and still maintain 3d connection?
I believe our problem may be with the DirecTv solely. If it works with prerecorded 3d programming and we can't get past the greyed out guide channels, D* may have the gate to restrictive. If they could open the channels in the guide and just warn of compatability problems, it may work with our current setups.
JIM
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post #72 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwitt View Post

Kevin and Geaux,
Curious as to the modes you were successful with. I believe when I had mine working, I had the Mit's adapter at the first mode light (Meaning with only the power light on, one push of the mode button to bring on the mode light. I believe the 3d picture was best with the Samsung TV 3d set to mode 2. Does this sound correct?
Also, Geaux, when you had yours working for some time, were you able to go back and forth from regular programming and shut off and on and still maintain 3d connection?
I believe our problem may be with the DirecTv solely. If it works with prerecorded 3d programming and we can't get past the greyed out guide channels, D* may have the gate to restrictive. If they could open the channels in the guide and just warn of compatability problems, it may work with our current setups.
JIM

Jim,

When mine worked I could go back and forth between 2D and 3D channels and the LED on the front of the 3DA-1 would automatically light up when I was on a 3D channel or played back a recorded 3D show from my list. The 3DA-1 would then go back to 2D automatically when I switched to a 2D broadcast.

Also when it was working, I agree with Kevin that when the audio through the HDMI started working that was right before I was able to watch a 3D broadcast. My problem now is that I can get the audio through the HDMI but I can't watch anything in 3D. Kevin's solution works most of the time for getting the audio to work through the HDMI. When it works it is only 2.0 though. However, now I can't the DirecTv receiver to recognize my set up as being 3D capable. I believe this is software related on DirecTv's end as I am using different software on my receiver than I was before. I am hopeful that DirecTv will resolve this issue in further software updates. Also, my Mitsubishi was not one of the HDTVs that DirecTv used to test the 3DA-1 from what I have read unless that has changed.
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post #73 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin6541 View Post

My software is 0x3e0, Tue 7/13, 8:22p
HR24/500

Firmware 2.0.24

I had done a reset within the prior 20 minutes.

I still don't know exactly why it's working, but those were the things I did just before.

A strange thing happened while watching n3D, the channel changed automatically to the channel guide. channel 200. After that, the menu became checkerboard, and the 3 3d channels turned white one at a time.

Not sure what is going to happen once I turn everything off, but I'll find out tomorrow morning as I don't plan on turning anything off until I go to bed tonight.


Kevin,

My software is also currently 0x3e0. I was using something else when my 3D was working. I can get 2.0 audio through my HDMI connection but I can not get the 3D channels to work. I am running my audio through my A/V Receiver but that is how I was doing it before when it was working.

What are your audio settings on your HL61A750 set at? Any information you can provide is appreciated.
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post #74 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwitt View Post

Kevin and Geaux,
Curious as to the modes you were successful with. I believe when I had mine working, I had the Mit's adapter at the first mode light (Meaning with only the power light on, one push of the mode button to bring on the mode light. I believe the 3d picture was best with the Samsung TV 3d set to mode 2. Does this sound correct?
Also, Geaux, when you had yours working for some time, were you able to go back and forth from regular programming and shut off and on and still maintain 3d connection?
I believe our problem may be with the DirecTv solely. If it works with prerecorded 3d programming and we can't get past the greyed out guide channels, D* may have the gate to restrictive. If they could open the channels in the guide and just warn of compatability problems, it may work with our current setups.
JIM

I haven't changed the 3da-1 mode since it started working. It is in normal/auto mode. It only had the power light on when I plugged the gefen output back in. After that, the 3d mode light comes on when I tune to a 3d channel and then it goes out when I go to a 2d channel. So far tuning back and forth between 2d and 3d seems to work, but with a noticeable delay in communication.

I'm not sure about mode 1 vs. mode 2, as far as I can tell, they might just be reversing the left and right shutters.

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post #75 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geaux Tigers View Post

Kevin,

My software is also currently 0x3e0. I was using something else when my 3D was working. I can get 2.0 audio through my HDMI connection but I can not get the 3D channels to work. I am running my audio through my A/V Receiver but that is how I was doing it before when it was working.

What are your audio settings on your HL61A750 set at? Any information you can provide is appreciated.

My audio is set to:

mode - standard
TruSurround XT off
auto volume off
tv speaker on

none of the other options are available except equalizer which I have done nothing with.

I didn't use my avr until after it started working. But my avr is old and the best I can do with it is optical. The optical was connected to the hr24 and my avr when 3D started working, but my avr was off.

now I have the audio running through my avr via optical, the audio is also coming through the 61a750 because I'm afraid to turn the speakers off for fear of ruining the setup, but I have turned it down to 0 because the mute symbol shows permanently.

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post #76 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 07:58 PM
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Do you have to have the converter for the hlt5075s samsung to work, or as long as you have a checkerboard output 3-d bluray player is that enough?
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post #77 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 08:34 PM
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Spider,
If you have the Panasonic 3d bluray, set it to checkerboard and connect direct, no other converters. It's the only brand that included checkerboard.
Samsung left us stranded when they would not even include checkerboard support for us.
Also, the DLP Link type glasses work without any rf emitter.
JIM
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post #78 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 08:42 PM
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What are the dlp link type glasses? Where can I get those?
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post #79 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiderguy84 View Post

Do you have to have the converter for the hlt5075s samsung to work, or as long as you have a checkerboard output 3-d bluray player is that enough?

If you have a Panasonic Blu-ray player that offers 3D Checkerboard then you will not need the converter watch 3D but you will need it for any other video sources that do not offer Checkerboard.

If you made a mistake and bought a Samsung Blu-ray player or any other product made by the worthless Samsung company then you will need the converter.

I am so mad at Samsung that I might support an invasion by North Korea as long as they promised to replace the entire leadership of Samsung.
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post #80 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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What are the dlp link type glasses? Where can I get those?

Do a search on the Internet for Xpand X102 and you will find the glasses. They are for sale on ebay as well as other places. I talked to Xpand and they will do a power buy for 100 glasses for $89 a piece.
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post #81 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 09:00 PM
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So I only need a panasonic checkerboard output bluray and the xpand x102 glasses for my samsung dlp to work on 3-d
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post #82 of 678 Old 07-31-2010, 09:05 PM
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The samsung hlt5075s wasn't on xpand's list of 3d ready dlp tvs. Also where do u buy them
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post #83 of 678 Old 08-01-2010, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geaux Tigers View Post

--SNIP--

On the PS3 the picture looked enlarged and I could not get any sound over HDMI but it was producing a 3D picture on the game demo I downloaded. I never play games on my PS3 and use it solely for a blu-ray player and media center. I wonder if the picture was stretched because the PS3 thought that it was connected to a larger Mitsubishi 72 inch DLP HDTV rather than my Samsung 61 DLP HDTV.

--SNIP--

I own none of the devices in this thread. I do, however, have the Sony 3D Blu ray player. One of the 3D options is you must specify the size of your 3D display, from 000 inches to 999. I would bet that the forthcoming PS3 3D-enabling firmware will have the same or similar setting. Thus, Geaux, I think your are entirely correct in your presumption that your PS3 "thinks' it is connected to a larger display than it really is.

carry on with your HD-Lite Directv loving banter! <--Comedy Gold
Don't fall for the HDMI 1.3 Hype!
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post #84 of 678 Old 08-01-2010, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiderguy84 View Post

The samsung hlt5075s wasn't on xpand's list of 3d ready dlp tvs. Also where do u buy them

The HLT 720p models are not 3D ready, they only support 2D HD.
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post #85 of 678 Old 08-01-2010, 09:44 AM
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The HLT 720p models are not 3D ready, they only support 2D HD.

Actually the HLT5075S does support 3-D. It's in the manual for the tv has the 3-D sync for the glasses and Samsung confirmed they are 3-D ready. What I was mentioning is that the dlp link type glasses site for xpand doesn't show that particular model being compatible with the hlt5075s.
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post #86 of 678 Old 08-01-2010, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiderguy84 View Post

Actually the HLT5075S does support 3-D. It's in the manual for the tv has the 3-D sync for the glasses and Samsung confirmed they are 3-D ready. What I was mentioning is that the dlp link type glasses site for xpand doesn't show that particular model being compatible with the hlt5075s.

The HLT 720p models are the sole reason why Mitsubishi locked out the EDID's for the other Samsung DLP TV's. The converter boxes will NOT work with the 720P models and unfortunately, 720p owners are likely not going to be able to utilize any of the current 3D tech including the Xpand X102's. The 102's send a 1080p signal at 60hz to each eye.
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post #87 of 678 Old 08-01-2010, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by spartanshu View Post

The HLT 720p models are the sole reason why Mitsubishi locked out the EDID's for the other Samsung DLP TV's. The converter boxes will NOT work with the 720P models and unfortunately, 720p owners are likely not going to be able to utilize any of the current 3D tech including the Xpand X102's. The 102's send a 1080p signal at 60hz to each eye.

Ok so xpand is out but using the glasses tridef used to sell and a panasonic dmp-bdt300 or 350 would work fine for 3-d bluray movies on the hlt5075s?
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post #88 of 678 Old 08-01-2010, 10:44 AM
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The only 3D the 720p models support is PC games using the Nvidia 3D player which outputs 3D in 720p frame sequential format.
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post #89 of 678 Old 08-01-2010, 10:48 AM
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But I've read on other forums that this panasonic bluray would work with it
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post #90 of 678 Old 08-01-2010, 02:30 PM
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Kevin, Geaux,
Have D* working? Or taking Sunday off?
JIM
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