Mitsubishi 3D Checkerboard Converter + Gefen HDMI Detective = 3D on Samsung HL61A750 - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 01:50 PM
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Ok,
Confirmed. No problem using HDMI (with sound) through all to tv without stripping digital sound out to AVR.
Noticed something different which would indicate a change from DTV with the guide that is letting everything work;
Prior to Saturday evening, watching the greyed out 3d channels, they always stayed that way. Now at the first step of plugging the 3da-1 (without Gefen) into HDMI 3, the channels were not greyed out. No sound or picture and got error message as expected, but the channels were active. Selected N3d preview channel, got error message......
Then, final step of uplugging the 3da-1 from the tv, plugging it into the rear of Gefen then plugging the Gefen into tv....... 3d working great.

Wolford,
Good info re: the lamp life issue. So far the Dynamic setting helps for me. When I tune to a normal channel I will have to remember to return to Normal mode. After a couple days I'll probably be watching 2d most of the time. I do have a spare bulb.
For others out there, many have a 750 series with the LED DLP. I am not an expert, but it may not shorten the life of the LED running in Dynamic mode as much.

I am going to talk with Gefen and see how their production/availability is. My wholesale sources inventory is not as high as normal. I may either obtain a large supply, clone them and be able to ship them at a very low price, or get the programming to Gefen so they can be ordered direct from Gefen individually or with a group buy.
(Any group buy will be cleared with AvsForum)
PM me if there is interest in either method.
JIM
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post #152 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 01:52 PM
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Jfwill,
Good point. This thread has been, as far as I remember, getting DTV to work. My only source is DTV. If anywone out there has any experience with other sources, please list for the guide we are attempting to put together. Was everything else working and DTV the last problem connection?
Gefen Inc. would like to post info on their Help Faq's regarding compatibility and steps to clone and connect.

Jfwill, PM me whith what you need and where do you life.
JIM
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post #153 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwitt View Post

Jfwill,
Good point. This thread has been, as far as I remember, getting DTV to work. My only source is DTV. If anywone out there has any experience with other sources, please list for the guide we are attempting to put together. Was everything else working and DTV the last problem connection?
Gefen Inc. would like to post info on their Help Faq's regarding compatibility and steps to clone and connect.
JIM

I was also able to get the ps3 to work, but it took a lot of the same trial and error. I posted something about it somewhere in this thread I believe. The good thing about the ps3 is that once its set for 3d you can disconnect/power off as much as you like and it will still work without any problems.

ps3 and D* are my only sources.

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post #154 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 03:10 PM
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Kevin,
Great. Do you know if Comcast is broadcasting 3d yet, if so, heard anything about it working with the Gefen?
Were you able or still intending to re- clone the Gefen?
If not, I am going to try to hit Costco again tonite for a re-clone, its just a long ways away from me and they may not allow me to do it. It just may, possibly, make the Gefen a bit more friendly.
JIM
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post #155 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 03:33 PM
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Just wondering if anyone has tried going through the different preset codes on the Gefen to try to get it to work with a Samsung, ie: HL67/61A750. I do not have access to a Mits to clone, so wondering if its "needed". Thanks for any info.
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post #156 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin6541 View Post

I was also able to get the ps3 to work, but it took a lot of the same trial and error. I posted something about it somewhere in this thread I believe. The good thing about the ps3 is that once its set for 3d you can disconnect/power off as much as you like and it will still work without any problems.

ps3 and D* are my only sources.

Does the PS3 transmit full audio over HDMI with this solution? As I'm understanding the thread, it seems that D* is the only fly in the ointment with regard to 5.1 over HDMI. Thanks..
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post #157 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 04:17 PM
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IronTorch,
Thank you very much for that question.
Yes, we tried it every which way and then some. Gefen advised that the actual EDID was not part of the pre-programmed resolution dip switch settings. However, it may be all that is needed.
The reason I thank you, is that I was planning on going to a store a long way from me to re-clone with a different method, hoping for a one step setup. As we speculate that part of the reason the Gefen is now working, is that DTV made a helpful change with their guide. Therefore, before re-cloning, I will try the dip-swithch settings first.
For anyone trying the dip switches, the following info is from Gefen:
Probably #5 setup is most likely to work.
After setting the dip switches, it is necessary to hook the power supply up and do the memory program process. Make sure it is write enable mode while programing and then write protect after.
If you try a different dip switch setting, reprogram that in.
JIM
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post #158 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwitt View Post

Kevin,
Great. Do you know if Comcast is broadcasting 3d yet, if so, heard anything about it working with the Gefen?
Were you able or still intending to re- clone the Gefen?
If not, I am going to try to hit Costco again tonite for a re-clone, its just a long ways away from me and they may not allow me to do it. It just may, possibly, make the Gefen a bit more friendly.
JIM

I'm not certain about comcast, I think I read a post about it being available in different areas, but I don't recall anything about using a gefen with it. I think they said they had no trouble with their AVR's though.

I don't plan on recloning the gefen at this point, it was hard enough to do it the first time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronTorch View Post

Just wondering if anyone has tried going through the different preset codes on the Gefen to try to get it to work with a Samsung, ie: HL67/61A750. I do not have access to a Mits to clone, so wondering if its "needed". Thanks for any info.

I tried this, I also tried programming from the 3da-1 itself but had no luck. However, I only tried each setting once and gave up. I spent many hours trying with the mits dlp programming. So it may still work without, worth spending some time on if you have no other option currently. And if you found it to work, many would benefit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spartanshu View Post

Does the PS3 transmit full audio over HDMI with this solution? As I'm understanding the thread, it seems that D* is the only fly in the ointment with regard to 5.1 over HDMI. Thanks..

When I run the ps3 auto audio setup, it only allows for 2 channel via hdmi, but this might just be because of my tv. I don't have an hdmi avr so I can't say for sure. I get 5.1 from both, but its optical.

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post #159 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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A moderator at DBStalk.com contacted me and advised that DirecTv has taken notice of our thread over at DBStalk.com. He alluded to the fact that DirecTv had changed the way the 3D channels were being broadcast. He asked me if I was able to view 3D on any other HR2* but I only have HR24-500s. If you are now able to watch 3D using another HR2* besides the HR24 then let me know and I will pass along the information.
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post #160 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 06:11 PM
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More good news. Great idea starting these threads by the way.

I disconnected everything to test it out. The only thing I had to do to make it work again was connect straight through the 3da-1 to the tv and then reconnect back to the gefen without the tv for a short pause. Everything powered on the whole time.
Too easy now. Thank you D* and DBStalk for listening and a thanks to Geaux for taking the initiative.

I only have the hr24-500 and a ps3, so I can not be of any help otherwise.

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post #161 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 06:26 PM
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As far as content goes for comcast there is a 3d channel as well as a espn 3d channel. As of yet there isn't much on them. I did watch part of the masters on it. Side by side that is.

Is there some reason no one with a hdmi avr wants to try 3da-1 and gefen after the avr? Has it been confirmed that the avr wont pass checkerboard unless it's 1.4? Just curious as that would surely cure the audio issues.
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post #162 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfwil View Post

As far as content goes for comcast there is a 3d channel as well as a espn 3d channel. As of yet there isn't much on them. I did watch part of the masters on it. Side by side that is.

Is there some reason no one with a hdmi avr wants to try 3da-1 and gefen after the avr? Has it been confirmed that the avr wont pass checkerboard unless it's 1.4? Just curious as that would surely cure the audio issues.

An HDMI 1.3 A/V Receiver will pass a 3D Checkerboard Signal but most HDMI 1.3 A/V Receivers will not pass other 3D Signals.
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post #163 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin6541 View Post

More good news. Great idea starting these threads by the way.

I disconnected everything to test it out. The only thing I had to do to make it work again was connect straight through the 3da-1 to the tv and then reconnect back to the gefen without the tv for a short pause. Everything powered on the whole time.
Too easy now. Thank you D* and DBStalk for listening and a thanks to Geaux for taking the initiative.

I only have the hr24-500 and a ps3, so I can not be of any help otherwise.


I have a PS3 as well. Our next task will be finding a switch or other device that allows us to switch between our DirecTv Receiver and the PS3 since the 3DA-1 only has one input. Hopefully, the DirecTv Receiver will not lose the 3D signal when we switch back and forth. Hopefully, Monoprice or another company will produce an economical solution. If I knew how to make a switch that was EDID compliant and had dual HDMI outputs for video and audio that would work with HDMI A/V Receivers then I would be a rich man. The audio would go to your HDMI 1.3 A/V Receiver and the other output would go to your video source (HDTV, 3DA-1, etc.). Panasonic has dual HDMI outputs on its Blu-ray players that offer such a solution.

I am also hoping that DirecTv will stop crippling the 3DA-1 by limiting it to 2.0 audio over HDMI.
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post #164 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geaux Tigers View Post

An HDMI 1.3 A/V Receiver will pass a 3D Checkerboard Signal but most HDMI 1.3 A/V Receivers will not pass other 3D Signals.

Ah crap. Did you happen to try yours? If it comes down to a choice between True Hd audio or 3D the audio will win for me.


Edit: After giving it some thought I think it can be made to work. You would need a hdmi splitter for each 3d source. For video it would run to your hdmi switcher then out to 3da-1 - gefen - tv. Then for audio straight to the avr. Just like before hdmi. I never used to run video through my avr.
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post #165 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 07:25 PM
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I programmed my gefen to a newer model MIT tv and when I connect everything I can only switch to top/bottom and side/side in the MIT converter modes. No sound or picture, is this happening because I programmed my geffen to a newer model MIT tv and is there suppose to show on the menu checkerboard as an option?
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post #166 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 07:28 PM
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Back to the dip switch question,
I disconnected my functioning system to try the dip switch setting and reprogram that into the Gefen which would erase the cloned memory (After some vodka on the rocks!)
Used the most likely setting #5... Plugged in the Gefen power supply and the light lit up solid green as it should. After one last sip, I pressed the program button and waited for the green light to rapidly flash. It didn't.... just stayed solid green. Tried to reprogram 3 more times... It stayed green.
Plugged it back into my system and the 3d worked as before with the two step connection.
The fact that it wouldn't rapidly flash COULD mean that the dip switches were the same program as what was stored by the clone.
So, anyone out there with the Gefen, try the #5 dip switch configuration remembering to hook up the power supply and program it before trying a Mit's clone. Please report back to this thread whether it works or not.
Thanks, JIM
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post #167 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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If anyone has a suggestion for any easy way to program a Harmony remote with a 3D button or macro command button for the Samsung 3D ready DLP HDTVs then please let us know.
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post #168 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 08:05 PM
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Thanks for the info Jim, and giving it a try.
If anyone does get a chance to try the #5 progam option before doing a clone that would really help nail down if it works or not. And if it does work that'll really help out all us Sammy owners get one step closer to a definite solution.
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post #169 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is link to the post at DBStalk.com concerning our issue. I have been told by those in the know that DirecTv is watching this thread:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.ph...=1#post2552068

Please let DirecTv know what you think.
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post #170 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geaux Tigers View Post

Our next task will be finding a switch or other device that allows us to switch between our DirecTv Receiver and the PS3 since the 3DA-1 only has one input.

I am also hoping that DirecTv will stop crippling the 3DA-1 by limiting it to 2.0 audio over HDMI.

I was hoping for an AVR dual output solution, but I found out how expensive that can be. There is a refurbished option, but its 1.3, and still pretty costly. I thought I read a post where someone had D* 3d running through a 1.3 AVR with success. Perhaps it was in the 1.3 won't work with D* thread, I'll have to look into that later. But it seems that you could pretty much run any number of combinations this way. One output to the 3D setup and the other to a regular hdmi input on the tv.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratty67 View Post

I programmed my gefen to a newer model MIT tv and when I connect everything I can only switch to top/bottom and side/side in the MIT converter modes. No sound or picture, is this happening because I programmed my geffen to a newer model MIT tv and is there suppose to show on the menu checkerboard as an option?

If its switching modes, then the gefen must be programmed correctly. Otherwise it wouldn't do anything except pass 2d, without 1080p apparently. There is no checkerboard option, it's just automatic. What you have described is exactly how it should work. Not sure why you don't have any picture at all. Keep trying different combos of plugging in power and cables. Did you try out steps from above?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geaux Tigers View Post

If anyone has a suggestion for any easy way to program a Harmony remote with a 3D button or macro command button for the Samsung 3D ready DLP HDTVs then please let us know.

I have the harmony 890, I was planning on messing around with that at some point. Would be nice to get it down to a button or two.

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post #171 of 678 Old 08-05-2010, 11:44 PM
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Kevin,

I'm working with d' + 3dc adaptor + geffen to samsung hlt 56 . I tune to 103 but I always get the error message, when I change the 3d mode setting too/bottom or use side/Side the error displays in side/side , this also shows on reg channels , when I put side /side the picture becomes side by side but it is misaligned.... Tried changing the dip switches and realize I lost the ability to change 3d modes, this probably means I have to re-program the geffen right?
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post #172 of 678 Old 08-06-2010, 02:29 AM
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Ratty67,
The newer Mit's DLP's should be fine. If you have to reclone, refer to Post #95 above.
In the meantime, when you set the dip switches, did you have it disconnected from your Samsung at the time, attach the powercord and do the memory thing with the memory write enabled? This step is necessary for the dip switch settings to over rite the clone.
The only dip switch setting that I believe may work is #5 in the Gefen instructions.
If you did actually change to dip switches, if it wasn't #5, do it over.
If you didn't program the dip switch settings you tried, revert back to the clone by putting all switches off except 4.
Start over with nothing hooked up to the 3da-1. Plug in the power and the synq connector from the tv to the 3a-1.
Now, a couple posts past 95, is Kevin's instructions and order of connections. Rename your HDMI-3 to "STB Satellite" We have had success with these steps. I only reset the DVR once. Having the dvr on channel 103 as you do the last two steps/connections is important.
The last steps= plug out of 3da-1 into HDMI-3. Wait a few seconds. Unplug from HDMI-3 and plug into in of Gefen, wait a few seconds and then plug the out of Gefen into HDMI-3. After a few seconds you should have 3d.
It's way late, so I hope the above is understandable.
JIM
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post #173 of 678 Old 08-06-2010, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwitt View Post

Ratty67,
The newer Mit's DLP's should be fine. If you have to reclone, refer to Post #95 above.
In the meantime, when you set the dip switches, did you have it disconnected from your Samsung at the time, attach the powercord and do the memory thing with the memory write enabled? This step is necessary for the dip switch settings to over rite the clone.
The only dip switch setting that I believe may work is #5 in the Gefen instructions.
If you did actually change to dip switches, if it wasn't #5, do it over.
If you didn't program the dip switch settings you tried, revert back to the clone by putting all switches off except 4.
Start over with nothing hooked up to the 3da-1. Plug in the power and the synq connector from the tv to the 3a-1.
Now, a couple posts past 95, is Kevin's instructions and order of connections. Rename your HDMI-3 to "STB Satellite" We have had success with these steps. I only reset the DVR once. Having the dvr on channel 103 as you do the last two steps/connections is important.
The last steps= plug out of 3da-1 into HDMI-3. Wait a few seconds. Unplug from HDMI-3 and plug into in of Gefen, wait a few seconds and then plug the out of Gefen into HDMI-3. After a few seconds you should have 3d.
It's way late, so I hope the above is understandable.
JIM

Yea I'm still having problems not getting the 3D picture and sound, I realized this morning that my gefen still must be programmed with the mits edid because on regular channels I can switch from 3d regular mode , top/bottom , and side/side but in 3d mode I just get regular image. It must be something with the connections then. Here is my connections right now, I think I may be doing something wrong.. D' Hdmi out to 3da-1 in .... 3da-1 hdmi out to geffen hdmi in.... Geffen hdmi out to hdmi/dvi 3 on tv.. I believe the emitter cables are right and that my problem is in the main connection.
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post #174 of 678 Old 08-06-2010, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratty67 View Post

Yea I'm still having problems not getting the 3D picture and sound, I realized this morning that my gefen still must be programmed with the mits edid because on regular channels I can switch from 3d regular mode , top/bottom , and side/side but in 3d mode I just get regular image. It must be something with the connections then. Here is my connections right now, I think I may be doing something wrong.. D' Hdmi out to 3da-1 in .... 3da-1 hdmi out to geffen hdmi in.... Geffen hdmi out to hdmi/dvi 3 on tv.. I believe the emitter cables are right and that my problem is in the main connection.

Now run it directly through the 3da-1 to the tv without the gefen, turn the D* channel to 103. Then disconnect the hdmi out from the 3da-1, connect the gefen to the 3da-1. wait for a few seconds, watch for the 3d mode light to light up. If you have a stereo with optical, have that running, when you get sound this way, you know the channel is working. Then plug the gefen hdmi out back in.

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post #175 of 678 Old 08-06-2010, 09:14 AM
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This morning I turned things on in this order and it worked without any disconnects.

3da-1 - D* receiver - tv

then I tested it by turning off the 3da-1 and then back on. went back to not working. tried a few different power combos. got some different errors at times while tuned to n3D. Error number was either 797 or 979 I don't remember right now, but the message was, your tv does not support 1080p/24hz, and then another time the message was does not support 480i. I think this was related to the channel from which had been previously tuned. Other times the screen would just go white, as if it were working because the 3d mode would come on.

But all in all, it still works of course. As far as I can figure, the power combo might be this

To turn every thing off:

TV off - 3da-1 off - D* off

To power on:

3da-1 on - D* on - TV on

I also had success just changing the input back and forth when the screen went a little haywire with greens and fuzz.

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post #176 of 678 Old 08-06-2010, 09:17 AM
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Kevin re: Ratty 67,
I suspect his Gefen is messed up re: if and how he changed the dip switch setting. I think he needs to know where he is at with the Gefen.and then start from scratch, following your instructions. Fron his answer, it didn't sound like he did anything to straighten out the Gefen.
Ratty67,
Your connection is correct for the final step. However, It does not sound from your post that you read and followed each step. Maybe I am wrong. If you did the clone correctly, and you juct hooked it up in the order you have it, it will not work.
Follow the steps above to figure out if you are able to still use the clone. Or have correctly changed the memory to the dip switch setting. We have to know where you are at there.
If you are having trouble with the instructions in my above post and decide to re-clone, follow post 95 and your Gefen instructions to the letter including enable write protection.
Again, after the above, then you have to start over with Kevin's connection instructions following post 95.
Sorry if I misunderstanded your answer above, but it didn't mention following any of the steps to correct, just your current connection.
Good luck, JIM
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post #177 of 678 Old 08-06-2010, 09:20 AM
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When I do reconnect everything back the 3d status light doesn't light up , not even when I press the button manually.
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post #178 of 678 Old 08-06-2010, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ratty67 View Post

When I do reconnect everything back the 3d status light doesn't light up , not even when I press the button manually.


Try starting over. If you didn't over write the gefen, then it should still allow for changing modes manually, However, this is not always the case, I found that the 3da-1 wasn't recognizing the gefen at times, but after starting over with the 3da-1 connections following the manual directions exactly (trading the steps involving the tv with the gefen), then it would recognize again. Once you have done this and confirmed that it works, try the steps again.

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post #179 of 678 Old 08-06-2010, 09:31 AM
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This morning I turned things on in this order and it worked without any disconnects.

3da-1 - D* receiver - tv

then I tested it by turning off the 3da-1 and then back on. went back to not working. tried a few different power combos. got some different errors at times while tuned to n3D. Error number was either 797 or 979 I don't remember right now, but the message was, your tv does not support 1080p/24hz, and then another time the message was does not support 480i. I think this was related to the channel from which had been previously tuned. Other times the screen would just go white, as if it were working because the 3d mode would come on.

But all in all, it still works of course. As far as I can figure, the power combo might be this

To turn every thing off:

TV off - 3da-1 off - D* off

To power on:

3da-1 on - D* on - TV on

I also had success just changing the input back and forth when the screen went a little haywire with greens and fuzz.

Greetings:
Yesterday evening, I had a very lengthy discussion with Directv. A CSR , whose name I do not want to reveal, wrote to the Engineers my concerns about Directv updates not including the 16 models of Samsung and all other models of Mitsu. She asked me the date of the last firmware update, and I noted it was the ones that were done a few days before the beginning of FIFA, which was around 06/08. I suggested the EDID be updated to include all known 3D compatible tvs.
According to her, the notes to the Engineers did include my account number, just in case the Engineers will have a need to call me for more clarification.

I own a Directv HR22, a Mitsu 83837, and a Pioneer Elite SC-09. I would think, if the 06/08/2010 firmware were written adequately, at least the various stbs should detect all compatible 3D Tvs no matter who makes them.
I suggested that the Engineers should take a look at this mess created by them and give us a fix ASAP.

George
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post #180 of 678 Old 08-06-2010, 09:39 AM
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Greetings:
Yesterday evening, I had a very lengthy discussion with Directv. A CSR , whose name I do not want to reveal, wrote to the Engineers my concerns about Directv updates not including the 16 models of Samsung and all other models of Mitsu. She asked me the date of the last firmware update, and I noted it was the ones that were done a few days before the beginning of FIFA, which was around 06/08. I suggested the EDID be updated to include all known 3D compatible tvs.
According to her, the notes to the Engineers did include my account number, just in case the Engineers will have a need to call me for more clarification.

I own a Directv HR22, a Mitsu 83837, and a Pioneer Elite SC-09. I would think, if the 06/08/2010 firmware were written adequately, at least the various stbs should detect all compatible 3D Tvs no matter who makes them.
I suggested that the Engineers should take a look at this mess created by them and give us a fix ASAP.

George

Thank you for your support. Although I think the biggest problem for Samsung owners is the 3Da-1, Samsung didn't make us one. Our spoofing mechanism acts as a mits which is the only way to make the 3da-1 work, so I'm not sure if adding the Sammy EDID's would help as we need the 3da-1 to convert the signal to checkerboard.

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