Discussion - Screens for 3D Projection - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 328 Old 07-17-2014, 03:17 PM
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I assume some places have return policies on screens. Shipping is the issue. That will cost if it isn't local.
I agree with Vaan, I don't think the screen can have a lot of effect on ghosting for Active 3D. The projector/glasses is the source. With the Sony projectors (at least on my 55) there is a brightness setting on the glasses that affects ghosting. I don't let ghosting bother me as much as some people so I don't mind it on the Sony, but it is clearly worse than my old Epson 5010 for ghosting. Technology is part of it. DLP's tend to have less ghosting yet.
The other factor is the glasses. I tried a few different brands and the Sony glasses, in addition to being the most expensive, were the worst at ghosting. Give the Samsung 5150 glasses a try. They are crazy light, lighter than passive glasses from the theater, and have less ghosting than the Sony glasses, and they are super cheap. I don't know how Samsung does it. They are a big reason I am holding off on going passive.
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post #302 of 328 Old 07-17-2014, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post
I assume some places have return policies on screens. Shipping is the issue. That will cost if it isn't local.
I agree with Vaan, I don't think the screen can have a lot of effect on ghosting for Active 3D. The projector/glasses is the source. With the Sony projectors (at least on my 55) there is a brightness setting on the glasses that affects ghosting. I don't let ghosting bother me as much as some people so I don't mind it on the Sony, but it is clearly worse than my old Epson 5010 for ghosting. Technology is part of it. DLP's tend to have less ghosting yet.
The other factor is the glasses. I tried a few different brands and the Sony glasses, in addition to being the most expensive, were the worst at ghosting. Give the Samsung 5150 glasses a try. They are crazy light, lighter than passive glasses from the theater, and have less ghosting than the Sony glasses, and they are super cheap. I don't know how Samsung does it. They are a big reason I am holding off on going passive.

Thanks for the tip on the 5150 glasses, will look that up. Not sure if they work with my VPL600, sounds like a winner for sure. I have 3 pairs of the sony glasses and 3 aftermakrket that are not much better the Xpand Lite RF model X105-RF-X1.
The Xpand do a much better job of blocking the stray light though and that is huge for active 3D viewing.
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post #303 of 328 Old 07-17-2014, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaan Janne View Post
how can you return an screen if you don´t like it ?
isn´t it like a car. your bad if you don´t like it and the fact it does not handle well allthough accelerates superb fast.
shuerly one can always sell it half price if one don´t like it

Are you saying roxiedog13 screen affects ghosting in active 3D ?

shurely it does on passive but in active.

As I remember if a screen retains a certain degree of polarization then it can cause ghosting . My screen is curved as well and I seem to remember a possible component there too.


Can I return the screen? If I pay that kind of cash out and the screen is not near perfect, I would expect the manufacturer to remedy the problem especially when their on-line brochure
states excellent for active 3D. I hope to never even have to consider the same actually . Should know within a week or so..........
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post #304 of 328 Old 07-17-2014, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Thanks for the tip on the 5150 glasses, will look that up. Not sure if they work with my VPL600, sounds like a winner for sure. I have 3 pairs of the sony glasses and 3 aftermakrket that are not much better the Xpand Lite RF model X105-RF-X1.
The Xpand do a much better job of blocking the stray light though and that is huge for active 3D viewing.
They will work. I have the Sony and XPAND 105 bluetooth glasses too. The XPAND's are certainly better than the Sony but the Samsungs a so much lighter. However they have don't have the structure on the side so they don't block light. I wouldn't wear anything else, but I do have a bat cave so stray light isn't an issue. Try changing the 3D brightness setting on your projector, that makes a huge difference.
"As I remember if a screen retains a certain degree of polarization then it can cause ghosting." I really don't think so. I don't have a big problem with the ghosting on my Sony 55, but it is there on occasion. You have put a lot of money into your system, I bet it is amazing in 2D. If the ghosting still bugs you after changing the 3D brightness setting, I would recommend picking up a cheap DLP just to see how ghosting is with that, like the Optoma HD-25LV or Benq 1070. That way you can eliminate your screen as an issue.
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post #305 of 328 Old 07-18-2014, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post
They will work. I have the Sony and XPAND 105 bluetooth glasses too. The XPAND's are certainly better than the Sony but the Samsungs a so much lighter. However they have don't have the structure on the side so they don't block light. I wouldn't wear anything else, but I do have a bat cave so stray light isn't an issue. Try changing the 3D brightness setting on your projector, that makes a huge difference.
"As I remember if a screen retains a certain degree of polarization then it can cause ghosting." I really don't think so. I don't have a big problem with the ghosting on my Sony 55, but it is there on occasion. You have put a lot of money into your system, I bet it is amazing in 2D. If the ghosting still bugs you after changing the 3D brightness setting, I would recommend picking up a cheap DLP just to see how ghosting is with that, like the Optoma HD-25LV or Benq 1070. That way you can eliminate your screen as an issue.
Well, I guess I'll be ordering up a couple of pairs of the Samsung to try. I had the Sony HW50ES before the VPL600, it was an awesome projector but the 600 is certainly a huge leap over that
PJ which is a good thing at that price point.
I too have a bat cave but you would be really surprised how much reflected stray light enters from the side. This reflected light entering inside the eye socket area will cause glare from the inside of the glasses and this is compounded if you are wearing prescription eye wear.
I've tried the different settings on the glasses, reducing the brightness reduces the ghosting but the image brightness to not always a good compromise. Still hard to complain, the 600 is amazing and with my new curved Draper TecVision XT1800 1.8 gain I hope to improve the overall experience again.......................I hope.
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post #306 of 328 Old 07-18-2014, 02:53 PM
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I bet it is beautiful. I think the general agreement is to get the best 2D and best 3D you need two projectors. I would give the benq 1070, or optoma hd25e a shot. They won't have anywhere near the 2D quality, but they should be ghost free in 3D.
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post #307 of 328 Old 07-22-2014, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post
I bet it is beautiful. I think the general agreement is to get the best 2D and best 3D you need two projectors. I would give the benq 1070, or optoma hd25e a shot. They won't have anywhere near the 2D quality, but they should be ghost free in 3D.
I considered this for a while but opted for the simplicity of one projector. Now, I may actually consider a second VPL600 down the road when the price drops then you have an even better setup.
Not sure how alignment of a 4K projector would go but it is a though still at this point. To be honest, I think my current setup with the higher gain screen, the fact that it is curved and I have a bat cave will probably be enough. We shall see, soon I hope
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post #308 of 328 Old 09-01-2014, 10:53 PM
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Anyone recommend for screen size 110' with Sony VPLHW40ES? I plan to use this for 3D movies and also 2D. I am more focus in 3d movie and what glasses go with it?



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post #309 of 328 Old 09-03-2014, 09:42 PM
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You want a higher gain screen then. If the Da-lite highpower screens are back in stock I would go with that. Did your projector come with the emitter cable? If so I highly recommend the Xpand AD025-RF-X1 emitter and Samsung 5150 bluetooth glasses. XPAND was going to going to come out with a kit sometime soon with the sony cable.
http://www.xpand.me/products/radio-frequency-emitter/
Sony's IR glasses are horrible and expensive. The PS3 glasses are better and much cheaper, but Bluetooth is the way to go. That is what they use on their high end 4k projectors.
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post #310 of 328 Old 11-01-2014, 08:15 AM
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Searched the thread and couldn't find anything. Does anyone know if there are polarization issues with the SMX Cineweave HD screen? Maybe I'll give it a go...
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post #311 of 328 Old 12-02-2014, 07:17 PM
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Hello, Can anyone recommend a good fixed frame screen(100" to 110") for my Epson 5030 UB. I have a window in the theater room, which I plan to blackout.

My primary use is for watching movies, sports and occasional 3D movies. Appreciate your help.

Thanks,
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post #312 of 328 Old 12-05-2014, 09:00 PM
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Da-Lite Da-Snap with Pearlescent material is really a nice screen. Higher gain so sports and 3D will be awesome, with no bad artifacts so movies will still be great. Plus it is really reasonable.
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post #313 of 328 Old 12-05-2014, 10:32 PM
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I did a lot of research and went with the Draper 3D PREMIER TECVISION 161" DIAGONAL HDTV (16:9) XT1800X WHITE. Pretty awesome screen. Of course the majority of the movies we watch are 3D. Massive gain over my old Da-Lite screen. Definitely not cheep, but none of this home theater stuff is LOL....
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post #314 of 328 Old 01-15-2015, 01:48 PM
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Hi

Could somebody help me?
I bought a optoma gt1080 projector and 3 glasses to playing game on Pc in 3D
First somehow I could use by 3DTV PLAY nividia but alredy 14 days are gone and I really don't know how can I use it by simple 3D vision or by any other software. I just want play on my PC in 3D with all of my games.
I have GTX 770 if this is matter something.

I bought this type of glasses: ZF2100 and I bought that emitter small black box I don't have any idea how does it working... but one thing is sure it isn't working I just plug it to the projector and it gave me blue light before but I read it has more functions but anyway didn;t matter how I pushed that button I have changed nothing I got same light. all led was blue.
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post #315 of 328 Old 02-15-2015, 09:51 PM
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3D Linear screen tests

I have a passive 3D dual projector setup and have been through a long selection process for a screen over the last year. This is a linear polarizing system with filters placed manually in front of the projectors which you need a silver screen for. If you dont' have such a system these screens are likely not for you!

It turns out there is a lot of science involved in working out which screen to use. Will it hotspot? Does it sparkle like crazy? How much light to do I really get once my filters are in place? What's the picture quality look like? Is there a color shift? Is there a texture to the screen and does it look like I'm getting full resolution on the screen from my source? And finally... how much polarized light retention is there which directly affects crosstalk.

$5 DIY method
Go to your grocery store and buy a 50ft roll of aluminum kitchen foil for $2. Get the heavy duty roll (+50c) if they have it as it's a thicker material to work with. Buy some painters tape for another $2 or so and gently tear off tall enough strips that you can hang on your wall. Attach the painters tape to the top and bottom of the foil and hang it in an up\down fashion with the dull\matte side facing out. Make yourself a nice big 100+" screen if you like as its pretty easy. Keep the foil as flat as possible with no creases.

What you'll see: Screen gain of 10+ and better polarization retention than any other screen you'll look at due to the high metal composition. On the downside you'll see every crease or imperfection in the foil (there will be many), a big hotspot in the middle of the screen and lots of light fall off as the light moves away from the hotspot.

For anyone considering a passive 3D system, I highly recommend you try the DIY screen above first as it will give you a preview of what's possible with your system.

Carls SilverScreen
I have a sample of this material. It's very cheap material to buy and retains polarization fairly well but not as well as other options like the 5D and BD 2.7. It also displays more sparkle in my opinion than these other screens despite having a lower gain.

Da-Lite Silver Lite 2.5
There are two different versions of this material. The actual polarization retention is very good and on a level of the better screens. Unfortunately each screen material has a texture to it and the coarser material structure actually makes 1080P look like a much lower resolution from my testing. There is also more light fall off from center to edge with this screen formulation. I don't recommend this screen.

Stewart Silver 3D
I have both a current sample and some very large full screen sized pieces I acquired locally from a huge screen. It's a flat surface material that has very good color, polarization retention and some sparkle and shimmer to its appearance. This has a higher rated gain and has more sparkle than the 5D material .

Stewart Silver 5D
I have both a sample and the screen I purchased of this material. This has the same polarization performance of the 3D material but with almost no sparkle to its appearance. It does have what I call shimmer though which appears throughout the entire image from light to dark as a type of screen noise. This is more apparent in 2D than in 3D, but it's the tradeoff you'll make with this current generation of silver screens.

Screen Innovations Black Diamond 2.7
I had a largish sample of this material. IMO this is very similar or equal to the Stewart 5D in performance with some caveats. There is some sparkle\shimmer that's quite visible in brighter areas of the image, but this seemed to lessen or disappear in mid level to non bright areas of the image.

Screen Summary: I'm happy with the Stewart 5D as it's a great linear 3D screen and also does OK for 2D which matches up with it's performance description. The Black Diamond 2.7 would be an alternative and offer similar if slightly different performance.

Other information:
- Projector placement will affect how these screens with gain perform. If you have your projector closer than 1.5x screen width you may have some hotspotting . In my setup I'm at greater than 2x screen width so don't have a real hotspot issue.
- Projector placement may also affect sparkle in the screen. Having my projectors mounted near or at the top level of the screen made less apparent sparkle or shimmer versus having them mounted nearer to the middle of the screen like you would with an HP screen.
- Get samples and test! Put the sample in the middle of the screen, put it at the edges and note the level of light fall off. Compare it to the DIY method to get a comparison of polarization retention or non retention.

I purchased my Stewart 5D through Mike at AVS. Feel free to ping or call him for a quote on whatever you might be considering.

If anyone is interested in reading about how 3D screens were being tested 13 years ago I recommend reading the tests performed by DrT here: http://www.drt3d.com/info/ScreenTesting.htm . This testing methodology still stacks up very well today and is how I performed some of my testing.

Last edited by wanderer; 02-15-2015 at 10:48 PM.
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post #316 of 328 Old 05-15-2015, 06:42 AM
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Just a heads-up, an AVS member in the general "Screens" thread, apparently considers selling his Da-Lite High Power Cosmopolitan Electrol (16:9, 110")...

"It is only about things that do not interest one that one can give a really unbiased opinion, which is no doubt the reason why an unbiased opinion is always absolutely valueless." Oscar Wilde
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post #317 of 328 Old 09-08-2015, 11:07 PM
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Hi Wanderer. I'm moving part of my conversation over here from the "Ultimate 3D projection system" thread. I appreciate your input on my screen. I'm planning to purchase two LG PF1500 LED projectors, hooked up to a Geobox 501 for a dual-projector 3D. Pretty sure I'm going with circular filters. The pj's max lumens is 1400 but reviews say expect more like 700 to 1100. Multiply the lumens by two, but subtract 50% to 75% for the filters and glasses! It will be in a light-controlled, dark room in the basement. The calculator at Projector Central says to mount them 10 to 11 feet from the screen for a 100" to 110" picture. I'm probably going with a 110" screen to guarantee a 100" picture whether a movie is 16:9 or 2.35:1.

Reading the threads here, I feel I should go with a 1.1 gain screen (I fear 1.5 would wash out colors). However, the Best Buy/Magnolia consultant who came over thinks I should go the other way, a 0.8 or 0.9 gain, since it's a dark room. My screen budget is $700 at most, but for me, the less the better. I know I'm not getting an IMAX here.
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post #318 of 328 Old 09-09-2015, 07:59 PM
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Hi Ted. I'll leave the circular vs linear topic alone here as that's better handled in the other thread.

For a polarization preserving screen, it's going to be a silver screen. The nature of these screens is that they are prone to hotspotting if you mount the projector too close. Stewart Filmscreen recommends 1.6x screen width (left to right - not diagonal) as a minimum mounting distance for your projectors. Based on the projector central calculator it looks as though you can go out to a max throw distance of 1.53x screen width with the LG projector. For a 110" diagonal which is 96" wide, this means the projectors lens will be about 147" back.

If you had a 110" 1.0 gain screen and 1400 lumens, the calculator says you'll get 18fl. If you calibrate the projector to give better color, this puts you in the 750 lumen range or 9.6fl. When you add a polarizer and glasses you keep about 38% of the original light output per channel. That 18fl is now 6.8fl, and the 9.6fl calibrated output is now 3.64 fl. This presumes that your DLP projector had unpolarized light to begin with, which is probably the case.

This is where screen gain helps. If your screen has a gain factor or 2, that 3.64fl is now 7.28fl of light per channel. How much light do you need? For 2D I watch my image at 13-14fl in a fully darkened room with no windows. For 3D I get around 6.5-7fl per channel and my eyes tell me it seems around the same level of brightness as my 2D image.

For $700 your screen choice here is going to be very limited. You could get some actual cinema screen material for this price with a 2+ gain, but you'll likely hate it as it will have lots of sparkle and shimmer to it. You could get some test samples of something like the Elite cinegray 5D or 3D materials, but those are 1.5 or 1.2 gain and won't get you to 6fl+ of brightness per channel. That is unless you shrink the screen size or bump your lumen count on the projectors. The Stewart and Screen Innovation screens that I recommended above are in the $2500+ range.
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post #319 of 328 Old 10-02-2015, 07:49 PM
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Change of plans

During all the process with the bank, Epson came out with the 2040, very well-received in many reviews. So instead of a polarized filter I can look at the Omega 3D, which doesn't feel like wearing sunglasses in a dark room. Now with two brighter projectors (2200 lumens) and a white-light 3D filter, I feel like I should actually try to cut down the light and look for 0.8 or 0.9 gain. For a 100 to 110" screen, Projector Central estimates putting the pj 9'9" to 11'9" from the screen. That's even closer than the LG PF1500 LED, which was 11-12'. How should I adjust the calculations for having TWO projectors, so I double the lumens?
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post #320 of 328 Old 10-03-2015, 09:36 AM
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Hi Ted, if you are going to try the Omega system I recommend for now that you don't immediately buy any type of screen. Just initially project on the wall, setup the projector, geobox, filters and bluray player and see how you like it. For 2D you'll only be using one projector powered up.

There are two reasons I suggest this approach:
1) You might not like the color balance from the Omega system where some colors appear a bit 'wrong' between left and right eyes. Based on my experience, if you don't like the color balance your only choices to attempt to correct this will be to switch to another color mode in your projector like cinema mode, etc, to try and find a better color match.
2) Screen size. You won't really know how big a screen you want to get until you've seen the system in action. You may find that a really large image causes 'light bounce' from your side walls or ceiling which is distracting. You may find a smaller brighter image is what you really end up wanting. You may find that running those projectors in full lamp mode is way too noisy but eco mode is OK.

So I'd test your system out first before committing to any screen purchase. This way if you later decide to evaluate linear or cicular for some reason you won't be stuck with a screen that won't work for you.
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post #321 of 328 Old 10-03-2015, 07:41 PM
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That's a good suggestion. We're going to paint that wall a very dark blue, but I could hang a sheet or something to test it.
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post #322 of 328 Old 11-15-2015, 10:05 AM
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Fascinating that Seymour's EN4K screen material isn't mentioned in this thread.

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post #323 of 328 Old 01-10-2016, 09:30 AM
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But after doing some research and tests, it DEFINITELY retains a lot of polarization.

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post #324 of 328 Old 01-11-2016, 04:29 AM
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In the ambient light resistant screens category, there is the French manufacturer XtremScreen with their Daylight screens.

They are are low gain, high uniformity, ultra low shimmer (almost invisible), and they keep a lot of polarisation.
They're great for active 3D if you use projectors with a polarized panel (LCD or LCoS), if you make sure the polarization angles between the projecor's LCD and the glasses match (for example if you use the manufacturer's recommended glasses) you'll get a significant light boost (the glasses will cut less light out of the original picture).
If you use the wrong glasses, then you'll get the opposite effect and the picture will become very dark, almost black.
They can also be used for passive polarized 3D.

They sell their screens with fixed frames (fat frame and super slim "zero-edge style"), as well as ceiling mounted electric rollable screens.
I own one of them, these screens provide a better contrast than my previous silverscreen in my living room (white walls, white ceiling), and they got me rid of my silverscreen's heavy shimmer effect, but they're obviously darker (the gain went down from 2.4 to 1.1).

I visited their headquarters in Strasbourg this summer, I brought my dual-projector system to do some polarization testing.
They have mainly 2 products
--> XtremScreen Daylight 1.1 Reference : in their opinion the best compromise between gain, brightness uniformity, ambient light resistance and the lowest shimmer of their products. Polarization retention is good enough but not great. There is a lot more crosstalk than on a proper silverscreen but it's acceptable enough to use it for passive polarized 3D (I own one of these screens)
--> XtremScreen Daylight 0.9 : slightly lower gain for better uniformity, polarisation retention is slightly less good than the 1.1, so It's great for 2D, active 3D and Omega/Dolby passive 3D but I'd advise against this screen for passive polarized 3D

The one thing that they have which really interests me is a prototype :
A modified version of their reference screen I decided to call Daylight 1.1 special for passive polarized 3D which combines a great picture very close to their Reference 1.1 implementation with extremely high polarization retention (the best polarization retention I have ever seen). It's my dream screen !
Unfortunately it's not ready for production yet, and it's a low volume low priority project so it's advancing slowly, but they are working on it.

They also have an ambient light resistant screen specifically for ultra-short throw projectors : it only bounces to the viewer the light coming from a very steep angle in only one direction (down) since that's where the ultra short projector would be located, and rejects the light from the ceiling and walls) . I did not test it's polarization retention, but it looks really good and I'd see it working great for 2D or Active 3D.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)


Last edited by BlackShark; 01-11-2016 at 04:50 AM.
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post #325 of 328 Old 02-24-2016, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Vaan Janne View Post
Putup your comments on how good the screen was in terms of ghosting.

i have HQ Linear filtters, i spray painted myself a silverscreen with proper paint and i was not happy with the amount of ghosting that is on screen with my
polarizers. I got samples from da-lite and harknes but i gotta say any of those samples did not show any better result in terms of lesser ghosting, and i have always
made fixed painted screen and had great picture, and after my silverscreen samples i was so dissappointed and that´s why i have oppinnion about *k screens being over the top and just waste of money.
but i would love to get me proven wrong

Just realized that I never responded to this . So the Draper TecVision XT1800X White is what I ordered and have been using for well over a year now. It is around 163" diagonal, 2.35:1 and on a curved frame with a 35' radius.
Fantastic material, gives a boost in gain I require for 3D, no hot spotting or color shift. Blacks are great and is the contrast . I do not notice ghosting while watching 3D but there are times I can see the issue if I really look for it. Depends on the movie, depth of the scene and my projector settings, but for the most part it is better than any other system I have owned thus far. My only complaint and is that I can see a hint of sheen or sparkle on a super bright image but that is no often and usually very brief . Besides, bright scenes are normally void of detail anyway so it really doesn't matter, it's just that it is different that I remember my reference screen to be.
projector screen I have viewed for 3D.
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post #326 of 328 Old 03-09-2016, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Just realized that I never responded to this . So the Draper TecVision XT1800X White is what I ordered and have been using for well over a year now. It is around 163&quot; diagonal, 2.35:1 and on a curved frame with a 35' radius. <br />
Fantastic material, gives a boost in gain I require for 3D, no hot spotting or color shift. Blacks are great and is the contrast . I do not notice ghosting while watching 3D but there are times I can see the issue if I really look for it. Depends on the movie, depth of the scene and my projector settings, but for the most part it is better than any other system I have owned thus far. My only complaint and is that I can see a hint of sheen or sparkle on a super bright image but that is no often and usually very brief . Besides, bright scenes are normally void of detail anyway so it really doesn't matter, it's just that it is different that I remember my reference screen to be. <br />
projector screen I have viewed for 3D.
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I think your screen belongs to a very different category than his. He is doing passive polarised 3D and requires a screen able to maintain the light polarisation as it bounces off the screen. You are doing active shutter and your screen has absolutely no effect on ghosting.
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post #327 of 328 Old 03-09-2016, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BlackShark View Post
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I think your screen belongs to a very different category than his. He is doing passive polarised 3D and requires a screen able to maintain the light polarisation as it bounces off the screen. You are doing active shutter and your screen has absolutely no effect on ghosting.

I just responded to a request to advise my feelings regarding my purchase of the Draper TecVision Screen 1.6 white . I definitely do use a Active 3D system, the Sony 600ES has the triple LCOS panels for active glasses, it is not a polarized setup. Thanks for the heads up.
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post #328 of 328 Old 03-20-2016, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bassco View Post
Rdjam, I was wondering if you can test out some rustoleum metallic paint for linear polarization?

I built a system similar to Blacksharks except with Epson 1080ub's and linear filters from polarization.com. I just watched Avatar last night on a drywall>flat black paint> rustoleum metallic painted screen and it was perfectly watchable and the screen cost less than $20.

Was also wondering.... do the big screen companies give out free samples of their products and if so, how big are they?
How did you build and mount your linear filters? What filters did you buy from that site? I am assuming you bought the film and then built something to hold it taught.
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