Discussion - Screens for 3D Projection - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 307 Old 01-06-2011, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

................Ron. I note in your first post you refer to the JVC projectors having vertical polarization and the JVC glasses having vertical polarization. I thought that the reverse was true, the the JVC glasses and projectors had horizontal polarizers and ditto that the Xpands had vertical rather than the horizontal you stated..........

Good catch (faulty memory on my part) - I should have gone back and checked my own post on the big JVC thread from a few weeks ago. I've corrected it in Post #1. The JVC projectors and JVC shutter eyeglasses use horizontal polarization while most LCD flat panel 3DTVs and the Xpand X103 shutter eyeglasses use vertical polarization. So if a JVC 3D projector owner is using it with a screen that maintains any significant amount of polarization, they really should be using the JVC eyeglasses and not the Xpand X103s,

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post #32 of 307 Old 01-06-2011, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I have reorganized the material in Post #1 and added links to screen manufacturers. If any of you know of any web sites with really good tutorials on selecting a projection screen please provide me with the URL so that I can perhaps include the link in Post #1 of this thread.

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post #33 of 307 Old 01-06-2011, 02:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

I have reorganized the material in Post #1 and added links to screen manufacturers. If any of you know of any web sites with really good tutorials on selecting a projection screen please provide me with the URL so that I can perhaps include the link in Post #1 of this thread.

POLARIZED LIGHT AND 3-D MOVIES

http://lennylipton.wordpress.com/201...movies-part-1/
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post #34 of 307 Old 01-06-2011, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I've updated the simple Excel spreadsheet based projection calculator that is attached at he end of Post #1 of this thread to now include a calculation of the expected 3D image brightness given the projector lumens output and the screen size and characteristics.

Also - thanks Lee for the link, I've added it to Post #1.

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post #35 of 307 Old 01-07-2011, 08:38 AM
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Thanks for this informative post. Looks Like I will be OK with my JVC RS40 and Carada BW screen using the xpand glasses since the BW screen only has .5 rating on polarization.

May want to check the Notes in the Bullet Section: Bullet item Section: Ability of the Screen to Retain Polarization of light -,

Still has JVC as vertical polarization and the xpand's as horizontal. I take it that should be reversed.

Rick
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post #36 of 307 Old 01-07-2011, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rewing57 View Post

Thanks for this informative post. Looks Like I will be OK with my JVC RS40 and Carada BW screen using the xpand glasses since the BW screen only has .5 rating on polarization.

May want to check the Notes in the Bullet Section: Bullet item Section: Ability of the Screen to Retain Polarization of light -,

Still has JVC as vertical polarization and the xpand's as horizontal. I take it that should be reversed.

No, that's right. It's why the Xpands are not a good choice for those whose screens preserve a lot of the polarization.

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post #37 of 307 Old 01-07-2011, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

No, that's right. It's why the Xpands are not a good choice for those whose screens preserve a lot of the polarization.

Sorry, guess I wasn't clear. I was talking about the Notes area stating that the JVC's have Vertical polarization yet a little earlier, The JVC's are stated to have Horizontal polarization.

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post #38 of 307 Old 01-07-2011, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rewing57 View Post

Thanks for this informative post. Looks Like I will be OK with my JVC RS40 and Carada BW screen using the xpand glasses since the BW screen only has .5 rating on polarization.

May want to check the Notes in the Bullet Section: Bullet item Section: Ability of the Screen to Retain Polarization of light -,

Still has JVC as vertical polarization and the xpand's as horizontal. I take it that should be reversed.

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Sorry, guess I wasn't clear. I was talking about the Notes area stating that the JVC's have Vertical polarization yet a little earlier, The JVC's are stated to have Horizontal polarization.

Thanks - I had corrected the info for the JVC glasses in the text but had failed to correct it in the note and also the information for the X103s. It's now been fixed. I've also made one correction of the attached zip file with the 3D projection calculator.

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post #39 of 307 Old 01-07-2011, 01:26 PM
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No, Thank you Ron for creating this thread.

Now if only my HT room was finished

Got everything sitting in boxes ready to install. But the contractor (good friend, so he's getting my business) is on another job. Can't wait to get this setup.

Posts like yours are very helpful in making purchase decisions. Esp when buying expensive equipment sight unseen.

Rick
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post #40 of 307 Old 01-07-2011, 04:25 PM
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Ron, do you have any idea what the stats are for the Elite Maxwhite screens? O knmow they are 1.1 gain but not sure about polarozation....Those are their cheapest screens, but happen to be the one I own (the 150").
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post #41 of 307 Old 01-07-2011, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mntwister View Post
Ron, do you have any idea what the stats are for the Elite Maxwhite screens? O knmow they are 1.1 gain but not sure about polarozation....Those are their cheapest screens, but happen to be the one I own (the 150").
I've never seen a sample of that screen material, so while it most likely would retain only a little of the polarization, testing would be required to be certain. What type of projector do you currently own? If it is LCD or LCoS you can use a camera polarizing filter, or a pair of RealD glasses from the theater to test it yourself.

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post #42 of 307 Old 01-07-2011, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

I've never seen a sample of that screen material, so while it most likely would retain only a little of the polarization, testing would be required to be certain. What type of projector do you currently own? If it is LCD or LCoS you can use a camera polarizing filter, or a pair of RealD glasses from the theater to test it yourself.

I have the new JVC RS-50.
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post #43 of 307 Old 01-08-2011, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

I've never seen a sample of that screen material, so while it most likely would retain only a little of the polarization, testing would be required to be certain. What type of projector do you currently own? If it is LCD or LCoS you can use a camera polarizing filter, or a pair of RealD glasses from the theater to test it yourself.

Ron,

How do you go about testing? What equipment is required to measure how well a screen retains polarized light?
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post #44 of 307 Old 01-08-2011, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

Ron, do you have any idea what the stats are for the Elite Maxwhite screens? O knmow they are 1.1 gain but not sure about polarozation....Those are their cheapest screens, but happen to be the one I own (the 150").

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Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

I have the new JVC RS-50.

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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Ron,

How do you go about testing? What equipment is required to measure how well a screen retains polarized light?

If you already have a JVC projector (or any other LCD or LCoS based projector), then you will also need either a pair of 3D glasses (eg.., JVC or Xpand) -or- a polarizing filter like you would use with a camera. Using the projector display a bright static image (using pause on a disc player or DVR) then view the image by looking thru the polarizing filter or 3D glasses (see note below). Then rotate the glasses/filter 90 degree and see if the projected image gets darker or lighter. If you don't see any change in the brightness of the projected image as you rotate the glasses or filter that means the screen is not retaining polarization, but if you see any signficant dimming then the screen is retaining some of the polarization. The greater the different between the brightest and the darkest the image gets, the more of the polarization that is being retained by the screen. If the screen were to fully retain all of the polarization then with some orientation of the polarizing filter the image would appear totally black.
Note: There are two types of polarizing filters, linear and circular. You need a linear viewing filter for the above test. The 3D shutter glasses use a linear polarizing element and can be used for the above test. The passive RealD glasses you get at a movie theater use circular polarized lens and you can use these for viewing test, but you need to look at the screen thru the glasses in reverse which makes these work as a linear polarizing filter. Finally if using a camera filter, if it is a typical one from a film camera then it's probably a linear filter and can be used for the above test. If it's used with a digital camera it's probably a circular polarizing filter and in order to use it you need to view the screen while looking in the reverse direction thru the filter. If in doubt just try viewing thru one side of the filter as you rotate it, then view thru the other side of the filter as you rotate it. If you see a difference in the projected image brightness as you rotate the filter (while viewing in either direction thru the filter) then the screen is retaining polarization. If you do test your screens, please post your results on this thread.

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post #45 of 307 Old 01-08-2011, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

If you already have a JVC projector (or any other LCD or LCoS based projector), then you will also need either a pair of 3D glasses (eg.., JVC or Xpand) -or- a polarizing filter like you would use with a camera. Using the projector display a bright static image (using pause on a disc player or DVR) then view the image by looking thru the polarizing filter or 3D glasses (see note below). Then rotate the glasses/filter 90 degree and see if the projected image gets darker or lighter. If you don't see any change in the brightness of the projected image as you rotate the glasses or filter that means the screen is not retaining polarization, but if you see any signficant dimming then the screen is retaining some of the polarization. The greater the different between the brightest and the darkest the image gets, the more of the polarization that is being retained by the screen. If the screen were to fully retain all of the polarization then with some orientation of the polarizing filter the image would appear totally black.
Note: There are two types of polarizing filters, linear and circular. You need a linear viewing filter for the above test. The 3D shutter glasses use a linear polarizing element and can be used for the above test. The passive RealD glasses you get at a movie theater use circular polarized lens and you can use these for viewing test, but you need to look at the screen thru the glasses in reverse which makes these work as a linear polarizing filter. Finally if using a camera filter, if it is a typical one from a film camera then it's probably a linear filter and can be used for the above test. If it's used with a digital camera it's probably a circular polarizing filter and in order to use it you need to view the screen while looking in the reverse direction thru the filter. If in doubt just try viewing thru one side of the filter as you rotate it, then view thru the other side of the filter as you rotate it. If you see a difference in the projected image brightness as you rotate the filter (while viewing in either direction thru the filter) then the screen is retaining polarization. If you do test your screens, please post your results on this thread.

Thank you Ron, I will test this out today with my JVC glasses and report back on the Elite Maxwhite.

So what are people saying as far as the new JVC's and the 3D , is having a higher polarization better or not? I did read a few posts where the higher it is the more it looks like DLP, is that true? Because for me a movie is a movie and should look like a movie. On the other hand, animated looks great on DLP';s.
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post #46 of 307 Old 01-08-2011, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

Thank you Ron, I will test this out today with my JVC glasses and report back on the Elite Maxwhite.

So what are people saying as far as the new JVC's and the 3D , is having a higher polarization better or not? I did read a few posts where the higher it is the more it looks like DLP, is that true? Because for me a movie is a movie and should look like a movie. On the other hand, animated looks great on DLP';s.

Given everything else equal, having a screen that retains a significant amount of polarizaton will give you a brighter 3D image (i.e., a good thing) if you are using the JVC 3D glassses. However, this also means that you will not want to use the less expensive 3D universal glasses from Xpand (i.e., model X103) because with the opposite polarization they will produce a very dim image. Also this whole polarization discussion only relates to 3D projection/viewing and makes no difference for viewing normal 2D programming (i.e., without use of the shutter glasses). I believe that the JVC projectors will produce a more film-like image both in 2D and 3D than will a DLP projector.

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post #47 of 307 Old 01-08-2011, 10:11 AM
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You can add Harkness-screens to the list of screen manufacturers that maintain polarisation
http://www.harkness-screens.com/

I use their Spectral 240 screen material for my polarised system.

I'll be very interested by the results of the BlackDiamond screen as I am looking for a better screen. I'm sitting close to the screen and the shimmering of the aluminium flakes on bright parts of the pictures is starting to annoy me, but I wouldn't want to trade the shimmering for crosstalk.
If the BD screen could perform well, I may want to change my screen.

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My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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post #48 of 307 Old 01-08-2011, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BlackShark View Post

You can add Harkness-screens to the list of screen manufacturers that maintain polarisation
http://www.harkness-screens.com/

I use their Spectral 240 screen material for my polarised system.

I'll be very interested by the results of the BlackDiamond screen as I am looking for a better screen. I'm sitting close to the screen and the shimmering of the aluminium flakes on bright parts of the pictures is starting to annoy me, but I wouldn't want to trade the shimmering for crosstalk.
If the BD screen could perform well, I may want to change my screen.

Thanks - I've added Harkness to post #1.

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post #49 of 307 Old 01-09-2011, 05:45 AM
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Any word if a Stewart Ultramatte 150 would hold any polarization? I haven't received my projector yet. I'll post my finding if there isn't any by then.

Joe.T
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post #50 of 307 Old 01-09-2011, 05:51 AM
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Any word if a Stewart Ultramatte 150 would hold any polarization? I haven't received my projector yet. I'll post my finding if there isn't any by then.

While we're talking about Stewart, I can confirm that Stewart's 5D hold's just about all of the polarized light.
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post #51 of 307 Old 01-09-2011, 11:13 AM
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While we're talking about Stewart, I can confirm that Stewart's 5D hold's just about all of the polarized light.

Thanks for the info. I know this is hard to answer, but in your opinion, how big of a difference is there between your ST130 and the 5D material as far as brightness goes? Any other observations compared to the 130 you noticed and can share (colors, whites, etc.......)? I assume whites, colors have noticeably more punch vs the 130? I am going to get a sample of this and compare to my HP 2.8 and 130 at some point, but not sure when.

Thanks

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post #52 of 307 Old 01-09-2011, 01:55 PM
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Thanks for the info. I know this is hard to answer, but in your opinion, how big of a difference is there between your ST130 and the 5D material as far as brightness goes? Any other observations compared to the 130 you noticed and can share (colors, whites, etc.......)? I assume whites, colors have noticeably more punch vs the 130? I am going to get a sample of this and compare to my HP 2.8 and 130 at some point, but not sure when.

Thanks

It's a few shades brighter, blacks appear to be deeper as well but it's really hard to tell with such a small sample.
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post #53 of 307 Old 01-10-2011, 06:51 AM
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Did you forget to include Screen Innovations (Black Diamond II 3D screen) on your mfgr list?
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post #54 of 307 Old 01-10-2011, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Did you forget to include Screen Innovations (Black Diamond II 3D screen) on your mfgr list?
Added to Post #1 list of screen manufacturers.

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post #55 of 307 Old 01-10-2011, 08:45 AM
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Maybe a subtlety about... StudioTek 130 G3, comments from members indicate that polarization is reduced somewhat from the previous screen material which rated a 4.

Also, I have a Draper sample pack but no polarized PJ (waitlist) to test from Would like to see some data for this brand.

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post #56 of 307 Old 01-10-2011, 11:14 AM
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Has anyone or is anyone going to test any of the DIY formulas? This would be a good idea if anyone is able to so BishopLord's request can be heard and those who are "ballin on a budget" will be all good as well.

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post #57 of 307 Old 01-10-2011, 03:16 PM
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got the call from my dealer today and i should be getting my rs40 tomorrow.
i have a 119" screen innovations solar hd 1.3 the material closely resembles the stewart studiotek 130.
so i think the expand 103's are out. does anyone know if i can use the nxg-3dg glasses? i need 5 pairs of glasses for the family.
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post #58 of 307 Old 01-10-2011, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
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got the call from my dealer today and i should be getting my rs40 tomorrow.
i have a 119" screen innovations solar hd 1.3 the material closely resembles the stewart studiotek 130.
so i think the expand 103's are out. does anyone know if i can use the nxg-3dg glasses? i need 5 pairs of glasses for the family.

There was one posting (from Petri on the big JVC projector thread) that the pre-production X7 he was testing would not work with the nxg glasses. I believe the only known 3D glasses confirmed to work with the JVC projectors are the ones from JVC and the Xpand 103s (but only if your projection screen doesn't retain much of the polarization). So it appears your only current option is the JVC glasses if your screen really does retain polarization (but you cannot just assume it does because it appears similar to another screen).

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post #59 of 307 Old 01-10-2011, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Has anyone or is anyone going to test any of the DIY formulas? This would be a good idea if anyone is able to so BishopLord's request can be heard and those who are "ballin on a budget" will be all good as well.

Best bet is for someone that has a DIY screen to test what they have and report the results here. But perhaps you would like to offer to purchase the different materials and do the testing for us.

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post #60 of 307 Old 01-10-2011, 05:03 PM
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Spoke with Mark with AVS Store today and did a test on my dragonfly screen and there was no polarization retention. I am good to go with the less expensive 3d glasses.

Ian B

i talked to mark today (AVS) and he said he never heard of Dragonfly and they don't sell them.

i am interested in hearing about polarization retention in the Dragonfly Matte White...
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