The "Official" Optoma 3DXL Owner's thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1727 Old 02-09-2011, 04:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Wilson-Flyer View Post

What is his product??? For God's sake! LOL

There is no product.
I was going to design a dongle that correct the eye order issue but some AVS GOLD member had removed my post and suspended posting for 24 hours.

I do not post anything negative about 3D-XL only how to use it without random pseudo-stereo by the use of VESA port and third party IR or blue-tooth transmitter.


Mathew Orman
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post #272 of 1727 Old 02-09-2011, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by icester View Post

There is no product.
I was going to design a dongle that correct the eye order issue but some AVS GOLD member had removed my post and suspended posting for 24 hours.

I do not post anything negative about 3D-XL only how to use it without random pseudo-stereo by the use of VESA port and third party IR or blue-tooth transmitter.


Mathew Orman

Fair enough. I, and I certainly cannot speak for others, have no reason to take what you say as anything but for face value. In other words, OK, I believe you.

I have been on this site since basically its inception and I can say that I have never seen anyone reprimanded to the tune of suspension for simply proposing a new product or that they may be interested in building the same for a profit. Something don't pass the sniff test but again, I'll take your word for it that it is what you say it is.

Having said all that, and back to the topic at hand. It sounds like it's time to put this puppy to rest. As I said above; you can be technically correct and implementationally wrong. Let it go.

HDTV in my home since 1999.
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post #273 of 1727 Old 02-09-2011, 07:42 PM
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I hope y'all know (and especially Icester) that I did not intend to issue any sort of challenge to Icester or "call him out". I have not found his comments to be out of line or offensive. Rather, I was asking honest questions. I was hoping for a sincere reply from him and others. I asked in the way that I did because I have read him debate this issue over and over again, and it seemed like this issue had already been narrowed down to what Defiant told me it was--a simple sync/invert reset at the beginning of each session where the problem occurs--but Icester repeated the problem here as if there was more to it, so I wanted clarification in case there was something I was missing. I read the comments about him maybe selling some device, so I asked about that, but not because I was convinced that it was the case. Rather, I was giving him the opportunity to tell us the deal on that, too, once and for all. I have honestly been trying to look at his comments as what he says they are--sincere comments regarding the sync issue--and I wanted to know what the bottom line on the "issue" was because he was making it sound pretty significant after it seemed to already have settled before as having a simple button-push solution. Since he did not reply to my questions, it makes me wonder if he was for real about just wanting to help people, because I asked for his help and did not get it. Then again, maybe he just didn't see my questions, or maybe I came off sounding like I was challenging him or being pushy. If so, I apologize. Defiant was friendly enough to reply with sincere answers, though. Thanks, Defiant. Icester, no offense to you. I was really hoping you'd answer my questions, though.
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post #274 of 1727 Old 02-09-2011, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Wish I could help you with those, but as outlined, I am only using the 3DXLs in a dual projector setup. There is another poster on this forum who has tested with a single projector DLP-Link setup, and there is at least one other review of that config on the web.

I've seen no link to any review to date where the reviewer said that the 3DXL creates any additional issue for the "pseudo stereo" (reversed views) "feature" of DLP-Link than already exists. Not to say such a review doesn't exist, but, if it does, I sure wouldn't mind seeing a link to it.

What I can say, quite simply, is that the 3DXL has worked as advertised for the configuration that I am using it for, which, I might add, was not even it's primary function. I've also found Optoma to be VERY responsive in tackling enhancements to the firmware for adding compatibility and functionality.

I'm very impressed with it, as it is letting me do something that just quite simply wouldn't have been feasible for me until now. Having been very hands on with the unit for a while now, I think it only fair that posts about its performance should be based on more actual experience, less on conjecture.

The good news is that we should see some more hands-on feedback here in a few days, including other configurations that I personally haven't tested.

But yes, I've been doing a lot of Bluray 3D
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotchacovered View Post

I've been reading various threads here for a long time without ever posting, and lately, I've been following the various 3D-XL threads on this forum (since about October). Over the last few months, and I have seen Icester repeat this warming about the DLP Link synchro problem many times in various threads. So, if it's not too presumptuous for a new member to ask, I was wondering if we can settle this once and for all.

RDJAM, in that interest, if you don't mind, can you all please answer the following questions per your hands-on experience with the 3D-XL?

ICESTER, if you don't mind, please do the same from whatever you've been told or read from reliable sources.

Also, others, I would like to have your answer also; however, please, I don't want to read anyone's opinions of what SHOULD work what way or what should not work another. I'd appreciate if only people who have a reliable and qualified source for their assertions would respond. No offense to anyone intended in that, and I'm obviously no one to make demands. LOL. Rather, this is just a humble request. Please be thorough in your answers. I think this might be helpful to a lot of readers.

First, this may seem unnecessary to say, but please keep in mind that I'm asking these questions from the perspective of using one 3D-XL with one projector, a pair of shutter glasses, and NO PC, watching content directly from Blu-Ray players, PS3's, and 3d sat boxes (without an HTPC).

1. Does the problem with the DLP Link's syncro and/or left-right inversion (i.e., "pseudo-stereo" picture) only occur upon the beginning of a new viewing session and/or source material, or does it just randomly happen off and on during a given session (e.g., movie) after you've already corrected the inversion at the beginning of the session?

2. As a practical example for question 1, assuming that you are using the HD66 projector, which is apparently a popular choice, is the problem resolved by simply pressing the invert button on the remote at the beginning of a given session when you detect a pseudo-stereo picture? I ask this quesion at the risk of being redundant because Icester used the term "random" in describing the occurrence of the pseudo-stereo problem.

3. What other problems exist for watching Blu-ray movies with the 3D-XL?

4. Icester, are you in any way affiliated with any competitor of Optoma or any entity who makes or sells a competing product?

5. Do you sell, plan to sell, or are you affiliated with any entity who sells or plans to sell IR emitters, IR glasses, Nvidia products, or any other device or system that allegedly resolves the problems you (Icester) have mentioned in reference to the 3D-XL?

6. One more question that does not relate to Icester's comments: if I bought an HD66 in late December, will I need any firmware updates to watch 3D Blu-rays via the 3D-XL from a 3D Blu-ray player and/or DirecTV and/or play 3D games on a PS3.

7. A question specifically for Rdjam: In your experience with the 3D-XL, have you noticed any of the problems Icester has mentioned, and if so, what is the resolution?

THANK YOU in advance for any answered rendered.

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post #275 of 1727 Old 02-09-2011, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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lol - we were typing at the same time
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post #276 of 1727 Old 02-09-2011, 07:49 PM
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Thanks, Rdjam. I have toyed with the idea of doing dual projectors with passive glasses, too, but my viewing room is pretty wide, and some viewing positions are probably 45-55 degrees from center screen (half angle?), and I've read that the necessary silver screens have a bright/hot spot and a narrow viewing angle. Is this an issue for you? Have you noticed a bright/hot spot, and is the image unacceptably dim from say 50%? Thanks for any advice you have.
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post #277 of 1727 Old 02-09-2011, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotchacovered View Post

Thanks, Rdjam. I have toyed with the idea of doing dual projectors with passive glasses, too, but my viewing room is pretty wide, and some viewing positions are probably 45-55 degrees from center screen (half angle?), and I've read that the necessary silver screens have a bright/hot spot and a narrow viewing angle. Is this an issue for you? Have you noticed a bright/hot spot, and is the image unacceptably dim from say 50%? Thanks for any advice you have.

Yes, there's no question that silver based screens for passive 3D have a narrower viewing cone, but in truth, it's not like the image goes black on the opposite side.

I'll use my BD II as an example - If I sit at the right wall in my room, I'll notice it gets darker at the opposite side, but only really if I freeze the picture and focus on seeing it. In the course of a normal movie, the reality is that you are not paying any attention to that.

As a result, on nights when I'm "packing it in", nobody notices anything like that - and this is only really at angles that you wouldn't really want to watch a movie from anyway.

Now the cone on silver screens might be narrower than that, I don't really know yet - but I'm going for it anyway

Hot spots are certainly a distinct possibility for many of these screens, perhaps even the reality. But I have circumvented that in advance by how I planned my projector placement, when I bought my BD II (before I got into the 3D thing). I planned the projector placement for the BD II because there was some conjecture at the time I was considering it, that there might be hotspotting.

It didn't turn out the be an issue for me, but the placement works nicely for silver screens also. I have the screen tilted down a few degrees to the audience, and the projector is mounted almost at head height, behind the rear seats.
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post #278 of 1727 Old 02-10-2011, 05:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by gotchacovered View Post

I hope y'all know (and especially Icester) that I did not intend to issue any sort of challenge to Icester or "call him out". I have not found his comments to be out of line or offensive. Rather, I was asking honest questions. I was hoping for a sincere reply from him and others. I asked in the way that I did because I have read him debate this issue over and over again, and it seemed like this issue had already been narrowed down to what Defiant told me it was--a simple sync/invert reset at the beginning of each session where the problem occurs--but Icester repeated the problem here as if there was more to it, so I wanted clarification in case there was something I was missing. I read the comments about him maybe selling some device, so I asked about that, but not because I was convinced that it was the case. Rather, I was giving him the opportunity to tell us the deal on that, too, once and for all. I have honestly been trying to look at his comments as what he says they are--sincere comments regarding the sync issue--and I wanted to know what the bottom line on the "issue" was because he was making it sound pretty significant after it seemed to already have settled before as having a simple button-push solution. Since he did not reply to my questions, it makes me wonder if he was for real about just wanting to help people, because I asked for his help and did not get it. Then again, maybe he just didn't see my questions, or maybe I came off sounding like I was challenging him or being pushy. If so, I apologize. Defiant was friendly enough to reply with sincere answers, though. Thanks, Defiant. Icester, no offense to you. I was really hoping you'd answer my questions, though.

I've missed your question.
My post are simply for newbies who do not know about pseudo-stereo and none of the DLP projector manuals talks about pseudo-stereo and method of correction linked with the remote button of indirectly related name.
It is not intended for professionals who have the experience of controlling stereoscopic display systems.

My apologies for those who got offended by my posts.

Mathew Orman
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post #279 of 1727 Old 02-10-2011, 06:23 AM
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rdjam - could you please address my question posed in post #252?

Hank Brown

"Being at the right place at the right time is purely a function of being at the right place a lot."

JPEG's of my Home Theater.
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post #280 of 1727 Old 02-10-2011, 06:42 AM
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http://www.projectors.co.uk/pp/Acces...D_Adaptor.html
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post #281 of 1727 Old 02-10-2011, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hconwell View Post
I just read this entire thread. Man, if you're into 3D, this sounds pretty cool. And a lot of what's here is way over my head.

But I do have a simple(?) question. If I have a 3D Blu-ray Disc player and two Infocus IN76 projectors (they're 60 hz 720p DLP) and two of these 3DXL units, can I create an active shutter 3D presentation on a standard white screen? I like the way my projector(s) scale 1080i and 1080p down to 720p ... so I would want to feed them both at least 1080i.
Sorry Hank - missed this question back then!

I've done a quick check of the specs on that projector at http://www.projectorcentral.com/InFo...y_Big_IN76.htm

It accepts 1080p24, so Bluray 3D would not be an issue, if true. I stress that mine was just a quick check there, and that you should do due diligence to make sure this is accurate.

The 3D player will output 1080p24/3D which you feed to a splitter, then to both 3DXL boxes. They each ouotput 1080p24, right or left, respectively, to each projector. The projectors then downconvert to 720p.

So technically it would work - although the pj will likely do 3:2 pull-up to display at 60p. It should be fine, but there is always a chance of judder. If you're used to this, then you'll probably be OK.

Just my thoughts - not a legal opinion!
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post #282 of 1727 Old 02-10-2011, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by archer16 View Post
It's all about to start happening!
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post #283 of 1727 Old 02-10-2011, 08:00 AM
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I don't have this product. But DLP is ultra solid 3D. Cheapest glasses at $60 each though. I have 10 now. But I also have two 3D display areas and I have this hope for a seious 3D Super Bowl 2012 party so I need more.
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post #284 of 1727 Old 02-10-2011, 08:57 AM
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Hconwell, I did anwser your post.

Originally Posted by hconwell
I just read this entire thread. Man, if you're into 3D, this sounds pretty cool. And a lot of what's here is way over my head.

"But I do have a simple(?) question. If I have a 3D Blu-ray Disc player and two Infocus IN76 projectors (they're 60 hz 720p DLP) and two of these 3DXL units, can I create an active shutter 3D presentation on a standard white screen? I like the way my projector(s) scale 1080i and 1080p down to 720p ... so I would want to feed them both at least 1080i."

He asked if he could create an active 3d system on a standard white screen with dual projectors and 3dXL's. You cannot do that. Active 3D requires a 3D ready projector and a single 3DXL. With dual projecotors/3DXL's you would be going for passive like rdJam.

If you want 720p active just get one 3DXL and a 3D ready projector like the Optoma HD66 or Acer H5360. Just use your current projector for 2D.
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post #285 of 1727 Old 02-10-2011, 09:02 AM
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Thanks very much to you both for that info.

Hank Brown

"Being at the right place at the right time is purely a function of being at the right place a lot."

JPEG's of my Home Theater.
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post #286 of 1727 Old 02-10-2011, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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whoops - I missed the part about the white screen - yes, you definitely can't use a white screen - you would need something that retains the polarisation.

Ideally, you want a screen that's good for both 2D and 3D - saves the trouble of switching.
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post #287 of 1727 Old 02-10-2011, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

whoops - I missed the part about the white screen - yes, you definitely can't use a white screen - you would need something that retains the polarisation.

Ideally, you want a screen that's good for both 2D and 3D - saves the trouble of switching.

Screen materials are interesting and even personal. I was afraid to change mine as I like it well enough as is. Thus, I went 720p single projo and active glasses. Of course that's an easy call when you already own a nice 1080 2D projo for 2D screenings.
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post #288 of 1727 Old 02-10-2011, 11:27 AM
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My question is: I have a Mits TV with the IR emitter and 6 pairs of Active Shutter glasses. If I buy the 3D-XL and an accompanying 3D projector, could I use the emitter and glasses that I use for the TV with the projector?
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post #289 of 1727 Old 02-10-2011, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotchacovered View Post

Thanks. I appreciate the response.

...

If it only happens at the beginning of each session, then I don't see any problem. A simple button push, and you're done (once you have your macro setup, which is no biggie at all).

...


Yes, I also agree it is no big deal, but I will also admit that it is sometimes not exactly obvious which way the glasses should be set. I mean, at the very beginning of a movie, sometimes it is hard to tell which way the glasses should be set, so you can find yourself watching pseudo stereo for a while before realizing something is wrong. Even that is no big deal, but I think that is much more the problem, to the extent there is any problem.

Oh, and the other "problem" is that the DLP projector documentation generally always omits any mention of this. So, to someone new to 3D it can be confusing at first. More user friendly solutions will eventually take over, I am sure.

At the risk of too much repetition, DLP Link glasses are out of sync 50% of the time you start a new video with a DLP Link projector. You put the glasses into correct sync by reversing the eye order at the projector - with most projectors you can do this with a single button press. Once you have your glasses synced, every other pair of DLP Link glasses in the room will also have correct sync (unless you have a pair that can reverse their sync with a button on the glasses, as those could be set wrong independently of the rest). The correct sync lasts until your projector comes out of 3D mode, which is until the movie or the game is ended. (Some games might drop out of 3D mode for cut scenes, and if so, your sync might change then, but here we are mainly talking about 3D video or Blu-Ray.) This also means that if you walk out of the room and then return with your glasses on, or if a guest arrives and you pull a new pair of glasses out of the cupboard and turn them on, they also will have correct sync. All until you start a new movie, when you may have to set the sync correctly again. While hardly nobody has been able to confirm this with the 3DXL specifically, this is the way DLP Link works when a projector is connected to a PC, and that is just the way DLP Link works with 720p projectors at this time. I'm writing this from my experience using and testing my HD66 DLP Link projector.
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post #290 of 1727 Old 02-10-2011, 11:38 AM
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TVViewer2000, the 3DXL has an ir port, so your emitter should just plug into it. Neither of the two people who actually have a 3DXL have the mitsu emitter, so nobody can anwser for sure though.
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post #291 of 1727 Old 02-10-2011, 01:35 PM
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Thanks, guys.

RdJam: Roger that on the screen. I'm going to look into the properties of the BD II, and see if I can get something less expensive with similar dispersion angles and polarization friendliness. I don't want to spend $3500 on a screen, and I also need a motorized model, which is apparently not available in the BD, and if it were, it would be too expensive for my taste anyway.

Icester: No poblem. I can appreciate warning people about something that's not in the manual. I'm not a pro. I'm a used-to-wasser (I used to be a pro in the electronics field, but now, I'm just a hobbyist who enjoyes tinkering with gadgets and making cool stuff happen for OOOO-AHHHH's). I was really just trying to find out if the problem only occurred at the beginning of a viewing and had a simply button-push solution, or if it truly was "random", which implies that it happens without notice at any time. I also wanted to know if you really were selling something, since comments were made about that. Please see my questions on the former page. Do you concur with Defiance and others on the answers given, or are you saying something different? That's all I really want you to tell me. You need not answer the ones about your affiliations. Thanks.

All,

SOOOOOOOOOO, I'm guessing at this point that if I don't have the f/w update on my HD66, I won't be able to use any IR-Link glasses (not just 3D Vision), because the default "3D' setting only contemplates DLP Link. Is that correct?
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post #292 of 1727 Old 02-10-2011, 02:15 PM
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The IR emitter plugs in the the 3DXL. The 3DXL then passes along 720p120 to your projector that it should handle just fine. You just don't turn on 3D in the projector then. I use my nVidia 3D with the 3d turned off in the projector and it works just fine. I guess the 3dvision setting compensates for some color shift or something, but it looked fine to me.
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post #293 of 1727 Old 02-10-2011, 02:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TViewer2000 View Post

My question is: I have a Mits TV with the IR emitter and 6 pairs of Active Shutter glasses. If I buy the 3D-XL and an accompanying 3D projector, could I use the emitter and glasses that I use for the TV with the projector?

Yes,
the TV and the projector are the same DLP technology and the same 120 Hz stereoscopic frame rate.

Mathew Orman
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post #294 of 1727 Old 02-10-2011, 04:36 PM
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I will be trying the 3dxl along with some others on here but have a Integra receiver that is 1.3 so I guess I will need a splitter.......anyone know a good reasonable priced one they can recomend? Also the hookup on this......will the splitter have to go before the 3dxl or after? Does the out on the 3DXL go to the PJ? I will will hooking my PS3 and hopefully Direct TV receiver up also to take advantage of their 3D......I would appreciate your comments on how this will all hookup............thanks
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post #295 of 1727 Old 02-11-2011, 06:55 AM
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You know you have a problem when you are waking up in the middle of a dream about receiving your pre-order 3dxl... come on already!!!!
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post #296 of 1727 Old 02-11-2011, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougES View Post

I will be trying the 3dxl along with some others on here but have a Integra receiver that is 1.3 so I guess I will need a splitter.......anyone know a good reasonable priced one they can recomend? Also the hookup on this......will the splitter have to go before the 3dxl or after? Does the out on the 3DXL go to the PJ? I will will hooking my PS3 and hopefully Direct TV receiver up also to take advantage of their 3D......I would appreciate your comments on how this will all hookup............thanks

I bought a Gefen 4 from 1 HDMI splitter on Amazon. It's technically 1.3 I think, but carries the 3D signal just fine. Only used it once so far, but will be testing it more this weekend, as I will also connect my 3D plasma over the weekend, so need the splitter for the pjs.

There is a Sewell 1.4 splitter coming out shortly, but it's only 2 outputs.

If you are going single projector DLP-Link, then you will only need 2 outputs - one for the AVR and one for the projector. If you are doing dual-projector, I think you will need 3 outputs for your setup, as you will have to feed the AVR from the splitter, as well as the two pjs.

Hope this helps!
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post #297 of 1727 Old 02-11-2011, 10:20 AM
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Most splitters are only one in and two or more out, so if you have 2 sources you would need two splitters. At this point it is cheaper to replace your receiver.
You could just run optical from your other sources to your receiver. In some theory this results in worse sound, but in real life no. We all are quite used to much lower quality mp3's. The numbers are different but people don't listen to numbers. Many tests have shown people can't tell the difference between 256kbs mp3's and the cd.

Warren.
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post #298 of 1727 Old 02-11-2011, 10:22 AM
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I should note that personally I find it a very good excuse to buy a new amp
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post #299 of 1727 Old 02-11-2011, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfyncsu7 View Post

I'm confused with all of the back and forth around DLP link "issues". Does using the IR emitter instead of DLP link result in a better 3D experience?

the 3d effect will be the same, you don't get "more 3d" with either one.

However, as Mathew says, DLP Link you will need to tell it which is left/right eye each time you start a 3d app. BUT wether this 'makes you insane' is a different matter. On the Optoma projectors you press one button, hardly enough to drive you insane!
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post #300 of 1727 Old 02-11-2011, 12:14 PM
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J&R Music World has them listed for pre-order:

http://www.jr.com/optoma/pe/OTM_3DXL/

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