The "Official" Optoma 3DXL Owner's thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:32 AM
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I feel your pain stuart628.

Normally we have to wait for our gadgets, and patience is not one of my strengths! At least you know that they are officially out there now, it's just a case of the distributors getting there hands on the next batch. Although Optoma had a list of 5-6 sites to order from in the UK, there was only one that actually seemed to have any of this first batch, and it could be the US will be similar. I had originally pre-ordered from Amazon (free shipping), but they never got any from this first batch.
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:34 AM
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Killzone 3 comes out in less than a week. They are killing me with this delay.
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post
threed123... I can say that from my HTPC? The 720p @ 120hz looks amazing and very sharp. I still think the guy was doing something odd causing the softness. Hard to say.
Yes, my 3D bluray is very sharp and clear through my htpc and Acer. I was just commenting that the bluray signal coming from a 3D 1080p source into the 3DXL has to be descaled as the reviewer was saying, and depending on the scaling engine can end up to be soft because of the on-the-fly conversion going on. Though the bluray disc has 1080p 3D image data, a 3D bluray player has to read and decompress the images thinking they are going to a 3DTV (side-by-side, over-under, checkerboard) and the 3DXL then reconverts to 120hz frame sequential and compresses to 720p. In a HTPC, a non-3D bluray reads the raw data and feeds it to the player program (PDVD10, TMT5) which does the conversion directly to 120hz using GPU power and therefore you don't get the double-dip scaler conversions--anyway, that's my thinking--I could be all wet though...

I hope everyone thinking about getting an 3DXL on this board realizes that while your PC can use a 3D disc in a non-3D blu-ray player as input, the 3DXL requires input from a 3D player source such as a 3D blu-ray player, PS3 or 3D satellite/cable box. You can't just feed output from any bluray player that contains a 3D disc into it--won't work. You just don't have to use your PC anymore, but you need other potentially expensive hardware.
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:40 AM
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I agree. You should send the 3DXL a 720P signal without doubt.
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:42 AM
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just another option for everyone, tru3d has them for pre order, now they dont come with the glasses (I spoke to them, glasses are a different package, but I already have 3 pair so I am set)
http://www.tru3d.com/3D_Home_Theater/3D_Adapters.php
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post
I agree. You should send the 3DXL a 720P signal without doubt.
Yes, for all PS3->3DXL->720p projector this would be the best. But there is another scaling issue, when using PS3->DUAL3DXL->DUAL1080p projectors for passive 3D what happens with 720p games? Will they be badly UPscaled by the 3DXL instead or will the 720p be passed through? Or what if someone whats to use dual 720p projectors for passive 3D? Will they experience upscaling by the 3DXL and downscaling by the projector afterwards? The L/R switch and the manual suggests this will be the case. Can someone try this?
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Old 02-16-2011, 12:28 PM
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Yep, Tru3D has them on pre-order for $319.99 (+20 shipping).

http://www.tru3d.com/products/view_p...P%20Projectors

Edit -

They do have packages available:

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Old 02-16-2011, 12:57 PM
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They pulled the 3dxl listing from ebay, hope its not bad news.
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

Yes, my 3D bluray is very sharp and clear through my htpc and Acer. I was just commenting that the bluray signal coming from a 3D 1080p source into the 3DXL has to be descaled as the reviewer was saying, and depending on the scaling engine can end up to be soft because of the on-the-fly conversion going on. Though the bluray disc has 1080p 3D image data, a 3D bluray player has to read and decompress the images thinking they are going to a 3DTV (side-by-side, over-under, checkerboard) and the 3DXL then reconverts to 120hz frame sequential and compresses to 720p. In a HTPC, a non-3D bluray reads the raw data and feeds it to the player program (PDVD10, TMT5) which does the conversion directly to 120hz using GPU power and therefore you don't get the double-dip scaler conversions--anyway, that's my thinking--I could be all wet though...

I hope everyone thinking about getting an 3DXL on this board realizes that while your PC can use a 3D disc in a non-3D blu-ray player as input, the 3DXL requires input from a 3D player source such as a 3D blu-ray player, PS3 or 3D satellite/cable box. You can't just feed output from any bluray player that contains a 3D disc into it--won't work. You just don't have to use your PC anymore, but you need other potentially expensive hardware.

I think what your saying is that a mega Nvidia 470 card is a hotter scaler than what is in the 3D-XL? Probably true.
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:14 PM
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I think all of this "soft" 720p image is predicated on this one review in the UK (and yes I agree with the other poster he sounds like a moron) . He seems to have picked up his knowledge of 3D from a quick write-up yesterday.

Anyway, while we all are "patiently" waiting on our 3DXL's this test needs to be run with known equipment and settings possibly by rdjam or someone who has a great knowledge of 3D imaging.

RDJAM or anyone with the proper equipment and a 3DXL. In your spare time (LOL) would it be possible for you to obtain a 720p projector and try a quick connect as a single projector and determine if there any issues with the 3DXL scaler from BD at 1080p down to the 720p projector. If anyone could do this it would relieve everyone's mind who are waiting and dying for 3DXL tests and information. THANKS.
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTFAN007 View Post

I think all of this "soft" 720p image is predicated on this one review in the UK (and yes I agree with the other poster he sounds like a moron) . He seems to have picked up his knowledge of 3D from a quick write-up yesterday.

Anyway, while we all are "patiently" waiting on our 3DXL's this test needs to be run with known equipment and settings possibly by rdjam or someone who has a great knowledge of 3D imaging.

RDJAM or anyone with the proper equipment and a 3DXL. In your spare time (LOL) would it be possible for you to obtain a 720p projector and try a quick connect as a single projector and determine if there any issues with the 3DXL scaler from BD at 1080p down to the 720p projector. If anyone could do this it would relieve everyone's mind who are waiting and dying for 3DXL tests and information. THANKS.

I've seen the opposite of this issue before, under different circumstances. I have a Mits 60" DLP TV which does 3D via checkerboard, but at 1080p/ wobulation (what a term!) In that case, being a 1080p (2D) native display I believe hurt the GAMING aspect off a PS3 much more than the 3D bluray.

For gaming w/ Gran Turismo, the PS3 outputs 720p 60hz per eye in 3D, but the display must then upscale it to 1080. For instance, using 3D Vision on the PC, one MUST output 1080p full screen for the set to function in 3D. This choice isn't available for games on the PS3. The 1.4 standard as I'm sure you know only supports 1080p/24 or 720p/60in 3D. So movies @ 1080/24 look pretty good on the Mits. But for PS3 games, there is a very noticeable jaggieness, loss of resolution and noise added to the image (text especially, like menus) in 3D. I'll bet it has more to do with trying to show 720p on a 1080p native display than anything. It's so bad I prefer not to use 3D on GT5 now with this Mits.

I'd like to try a consumer HDMI 1.4 3D display like the plasmas or LCDs with Gran Turismo to see if the detail loss going to 720p/60 3D is as noticeable, but those are also 1080p displays. Perhaps it's just a bad combo with the checkerboard for DLP and true 1.4 display might help? I love 3D gaming but prefer the 1080p 2D on the PS3 thus far. I suspect with the 720p projector however, once this adapter is available, it may improve things for console-based 3D gaming since 720p per eye is the standard (and hopefully for you all more interested in movies, it won't dagger you as a result with 1080/24 content!)

In fact, has anyone seen a brick and mortar store with a PS3 set up in 3D on a plasma or LCD? I'd like to try it out, but my local Best Buy was just showing movies, not games, for example...
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:11 PM
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quickly skimming the last coupla pages. i take it 3D-XL isn't to market here in US yet? they've been promising this product for a LONG time now! it's now end of Feb!!!

this'll work w/HD66 w/o firmware?

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Old 02-16-2011, 03:27 PM
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Pretty sure the hd66 is good to go. Almost positive, I hope as I own one.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post

quickly skimming the last coupla pages. i take it 3D-XL isn't to market here in US yet? they've been promising this product for a LONG time now! it's now end of Feb!!!

this'll work w/HD66 w/o firmware?

Yes, to my knowledge the unit has not been delivered in the US yet except for a very few pilot units for testing. I have been told by Optoma Tech Support that the HD66 does not need a firmware update if connected to the 3DXL (only needed for Nvidia interface.)
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTFAN007 View Post


RDJAM or anyone with the proper equipment and a 3DXL. In your spare time (LOL) would it be possible for you to obtain a 720p projector and try a quick connect as a single projector and determine if there any issues with the 3DXL scaler from BD at 1080p down to the 720p projector. If anyone could do this it would relieve everyone's mind who are waiting and dying for 3DXL tests and information. THANKS.

For BD 3D, the 3DXL will output 1080p24 for each projector in a dual configuration, regardless of what type of pj is connected. So as long as your pj will accept that, the scaling would be done by your pj.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:15 AM
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so realistically when are we (in the US) able to grab this? May now?

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Old 02-17-2011, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

For BD 3D, the 3DXL will output 1080p24 for each projector in a dual configuration, regardless of what type of pj is connected. So as long as your pj will accept that, the scaling would be done by your pj.

And what will happen with 3D 720p60 material in dual configuration?
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Old 02-17-2011, 05:46 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BishopLord View Post

Yep, Tru3D has them on pre-order for $319.99 (+20 shipping).

http://www.tru3d.com/products/view_p...P%20Projectors

Has anyone tried to contact these people? They don't seem to reply to any queries.
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Old 02-17-2011, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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And what will happen with 3D 720p60 material in dual configuration?

Good question!

I haven't tried that configuration to date as I've been "livin' the dream" at 1080p BD 3D.

Tonight I will return to my HTPC and see if I can get 3D working with 720p. That'll give me something to report. I'll also ask Optoma what the units are designed to output from each source.
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

Has anyone tried to contact these people? They don't seem to reply to any queries.

I called them yesterday on the phone and spoke to them. Maybe I can help with what I know (its very limited) or call them directly.
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:19 AM
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Good question!

I haven't tried that configuration to date as I've been "livin' the dream" at 1080p BD 3D.

Tonight I will return to my HTPC and see if I can get 3D working with 720p. That'll give me something to report. I'll also ask Optoma what the units are designed to output from each source.

Do you have a PS3? Several games support 3D in 720p 50/60 now on that platform, and given the unacceptable video I got trying 3D from PS3 (GAMES) on the Mits 1080p DLP I described earlier, I'd love to hear how this adapter mates with a true 720p 3D capable cheap DLP projector, like the Optoma HD66. Maybe if you get a chance pick one (or both ) of those items up at a local Best Buy and try it out? (Check first to see if they've eliminated their restocking fee policy; I believe I read that was their plan somewhere..)
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:34 AM
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PS3 games ONLY support 720p60. What would the 3DXL scale 720p60 to? It would have to pass it straight on through. My friend has his ps3 hooked up to his samsung plasma, and 720p60 looks awesome on it. I also played that on a samsung LED LCD at Best Buy. Looked very good to me.

Also HDMI does not ONLY support 720P60 and 1080P24. It only requires hdmi 1.4 devices support those. The standard supports many more formats.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:41 AM
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Has anyone tried to contact these people? They don't seem to reply to any queries.

I have tried three times. Never responded.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mikemav View Post

I've seen the opposite of this issue before, under different circumstances. I have a Mits 60" DLP TV which does 3D via checkerboard, but at 1080p/ wobulation (what a term!) In that case, being a 1080p (2D) native display I believe hurt the GAMING aspect off a PS3 much more than the 3D bluray.

For gaming w/ Gran Turismo, the PS3 outputs 720p 60hz per eye in 3D, but the display must then upscale it to 1080. For instance, using 3D Vision on the PC, one MUST output 1080p full screen for the set to function in 3D. This choice isn't available for games on the PS3. The 1.4 standard as I'm sure you know only supports 1080p/24 or 720p/60in 3D. So movies @ 1080/24 look pretty good on the Mits. But for PS3 games, there is a very noticeable jaggieness, loss of resolution and noise added to the image (text especially, like menus) in 3D. I'll bet it has more to do with trying to show 720p on a 1080p native display than anything. It's so bad I prefer not to use 3D on GT5 now with this Mits.

I'd like to try a consumer HDMI 1.4 3D display like the plasmas or LCDs with Gran Turismo to see if the detail loss going to 720p/60 3D is as noticeable, but those are also 1080p displays. Perhaps it's just a bad combo with the checkerboard for DLP and true 1.4 display might help? I love 3D gaming but prefer the 1080p 2D on the PS3 thus far. I suspect with the 720p projector however, once this adapter is available, it may improve things for console-based 3D gaming since 720p per eye is the standard (and hopefully for you all more interested in movies, it won't dagger you as a result with 1080/24 content!)

In fact, has anyone seen a brick and mortar store with a PS3 set up in 3D on a plasma or LCD? I'd like to try it out, but my local Best Buy was just showing movies, not games, for example...

All games look bad? I seem to recall many of the game 3D PQ issues were title related? At least I should say, I know some people gaming with the PS3in 3D using their Mitsu's. The only thing they had to say was that some game titles, the PQ sucked in 3D. I myself should have it going very soon on my 65", so maybe I can borrow some games from them? I am not a gamer at all though.

It does seem every modern display would have to scale it, no matter what.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

PS3 games ONLY support 720p60. What would the 3DXL scale 720p60 to? It would have to pass it straight on through. My friend has his ps3 hooked up to his samsung plasma, and 720p60 looks awesome on it. I also played that on a samsung LED LCD at Best Buy. Looked very good to me.

Also HDMI does not ONLY support 720P60 and 1080P24. It only requires hdmi 1.4 devices support those. The standard supports many more formats.

Yes, that was my point, unscaled it should look its best. Scaling 720p 3d games up to 1080p after converting to checkerboard w/ the mits adapter looks bad on my DLP tv, but that may be improved with a 720p native display. I'd try my Optoma 3d projector, but the 3d-xl is required despite the lack of scaling since they don't accept the 3d formats output by either the ps3 or 360.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post


All games look bad? I seem to recall many of the game 3D PQ issues were title related? At least I should say, I know some people gaming with the PS3in 3D using their Mitsu's. The only thing they had to say was that some game titles, the PQ sucked in 3D. I myself should have it going very soon on my 65", so maybe I can borrow some games from them? I am not a gamer at all though.

It does seem every modern display would have to scale it, no matter what.

I've only tried gt5, and the text got so jagged it was very distracting. The set looks great w/ pc titles and 3d vision.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:54 AM
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I think your experience is just this title. I think some look better than others? I mean your saying 3D PS3 Games look terrible on the Mitsu DLP 3D displays. I just have not heard that from anybody else.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:56 AM
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Oh, I imagine that would be a problem with checkerboard. You are taking 720p, doubling the pixels, then erasing half of them. I think a true 1080p display won't be such a problem.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:58 AM
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I know some people doing it and they are not complaining about their 3D PS3 games less some specific titles. I will surely inquire further.
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:10 AM
 
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Quote:
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I called them yesterday on the phone and spoke to them. Maybe I can help with what I know (its very limited) or call them directly.

Just wondered if you asked about the 3DXL and their response?
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